High Sword Low Axe Dervish

[Qc Storm]

Is such a thing possible? Dervish can consider Scimitars as light weapons, which allows you to use a big axe, such as a Battleaxe (or Dwaraxe if you are a dwarf, allowing entry into Exotic Weapon Master).

Both the feat and the class are known for having horrendous feat tax, but some of them are shared.

What would you suggest?

[lsfreak]

You can mitigate some of the costs by using the Mobility armor enhancement instead of the feat. Grab Expeditious Dodge instead of the normal since you'll be moving a lot (or Desert Wind Dodge if you're using a swordsage base/taking a swordsage dip).

One level of Cloistered Cleric could get you one of the Weapon Foci (War domain), plus Knowledge Devotion for extra hit/damage, plus another something (and if chaos shuffling isn't off the table, well, a cloistered cleric dip is probably about the best thing you could do to fill prereqs. Shuffling would also allow you to trade out the worthless Spring Attack you get from dervish for something worthwhile).

Since Dervish requires Combat Expertise, there's no point really going barbarian specifically for free, no-prereq Imp Trip, but you might want it anyways because you've got a lot of feats eaten up in prereqs, and Whirling Frenzy fits thematically (of course this can also net you pounce, which will probably be pulling more weight than dervish dance does).

[Qc Storm]

You can mitigate some of the costs by using the Mobility armor enhancement instead of the feat. Grab Expeditious Dodge instead of the normal since you'll be moving a lot (or Desert Wind Dodge if you're using a swordsage base/taking a swordsage dip).

One level of Cloistered Cleric could get you one of the Weapon Foci (War domain), plus Knowledge Devotion for extra hit/damage, plus another something (and if chaos shuffling isn't off the table, well, a cloistered cleric dip is probably about the best thing you could do to fill prereqs. Shuffling would also allow you to trade out the worthless Spring Attack you get from dervish for something worthwhile).

Since Dervish requires Combat Expertise, there's no point really going barbarian specifically for free, no-prereq Imp Trip, but you might want it anyways because you've got a lot of feats eaten up in prereqs, and Whirling Frenzy fits thematically (of course this can also net you pounce, which will probably be pulling more weight than dervish dance does).

Our group rules that Dodge applies 1 dodge AC permanently, so while it isn't a good feat, its better than the alternatives.

I forgot about the Wolf Totem, which does help a bit. Allows me to skip a feat and dump Int. Pounce can be nice (and certainly fits the Dervish theme), but I thought Rage was not compatible with Dervish Dance?

[lsfreak]

I forgot about the Wolf Totem, which does help a bit. Allows me to skip a feat and dump Int.
Not really, Dervish requires Combat Expertise.


Pounce can be nice (and certainly fits the Dervish theme), but I thought Rage was not compatible with Dervish Dance?
Oops, you're right. I missed that line. That's stupid.

[Qc Storm]

Well, here is my shot at it. Sorry if the format is hard to read.


Level 1 : Unarmed Swordsage

Discipline Focus (Desert Wind)
Quick to Act +1

Distracting Ember, Burning Blade, Counter Charge, Wolf Fang Strike, Sudden Leap, Mighty Throw, *Child of Shadows*

1 - Combat Expertise
1(Flaw) - Combat Reflexes
1(Flaw) - Dodge
1(Human) - Weapon Focus Battle Axe
1(Swordsage) - Improved Unarmed Strikes
1(Swordsage) - Weapon Focus Scimitar

Level 2 : Frenzy Wolf Totem Barbarian

Gain Frenzy 1/day
Fast Movement

Level 3 : Frenzy Wolf Totem Barbarian

3(Totem) - Improved Trip
3 - Defensive Throw

Level 4 : Trap Expert Arcane Hunter Ranger

Trapfinding
Favored Enemy (Arcane)
Animal Empathy

Level 5 : Trap Expert Arcame Hunter Ranger

5(Style) - Two-Weapon Fighting

Level 6 : Unarmed Swordsage

AC Bonus

Cloak of Deception, *Step of the Wind*

6 - High Sword Low Axe

Level 7 : DERVISH BEGINS NOW

Mobility is filled with the Mobility armor enchant
TWF upgraded by gloves of the stable hands


Sadly this requires pretty good stats all around. 13 dex is required for Dodge, 13 int for Combat Expertise. The 15 and higher Dex from TWF is avoided thanks to Ranger and Gloves of the Balanced Hand. Swordsage gives me a potential AC bonus if I can get high Wisdom, and some very nice maneuvers. Child of Shadows allows a 20% miss chance whenever I do Dervish things, which synergies well with Defensive Throw (Mobility helps too). Step of the Moth patches a weakness in Dervishes, difficult terrain. The maneuvers are just a bonus.

High Sword Low Axe allows for trip attempts every time I hit a creature with both weapons, allowing a free hit.

Being a Dwarf would be kinda nice, due to the Exotic Dwaraxe (and possible entry in Exotic Weapon Master), Con Bonus, and Stability (for the inevitable countertrips). However, the 20ft base land speed kinda hurts a Dervish I heard (As does the lack of feat).

My final feats should probably focus on actually improving Dervish now.

[Gwendol]

You could go dwarf with the Quick trait, gaining +10' at the cost of 1 HP/level.

[Fouredged Sword]

You counter the main bonus of that +2 con though, but you can spend a flaw to get improved toughness to counter THAT, so it balances out. You can then move 30ft in heavy armor. Check the wording of your abilities, as sometimes they say "cannot do X when slowed by armor" rather than "can do X only in light or no armor".

[Qc Storm]

You counter the main bonus of that +2 con though, but you can spend a flaw to get improved toughness to counter THAT, so it balances out. You can then move 30ft in heavy armor. Check the wording of your abilities, as sometimes they say "cannot do X when slowed by armor" rather than "can do X only in light or no armor".

Hah, good call guys. Might flip some things around. I can probably live without the bonus feat.

Though in this case Dervish absolutely needs light armor.

I'll come up with a better build in a few.

[Qc Storm]

Here is a second attempt, with a Quick Dwarf.


QUICK DWARF DERVISH

Level 1 : Swordsage

Discipline Focus (Desert Wind)
Quick to Act +1

Distracting Ember, Burning Blade, Counter Charge, Wolf Fang Strike, Sudden Leap, Mighty Throw, *Child of Shadows*

1 - Combat Expertise
1(Flaw) - Weapon Focus Dwaraxe
1(Flaw) - Improved Trip
1(Dwarf) - Dwaraxe Proficiency
1(Swordsage) - Weapon Focus Scimitar

Level 2 : Trap Expert Arcane Hunter Ranger

Trapfinding
Favored Enemy (Arcane)
Animal Empathy

Level 3 : Trap Expert Arcame Hunter Ranger

3(Style) - Two-Weapon Fighting
3 - High Sword Low Axe

Level 4 : Fighter

4(Fighter) - Dodge

Level 5 : Frenzy Barbarian

Frenzy 1/day
Fast Movement

Level 6 : Unarmed Swordsage

AC Bonus

Cloak of Deception, *Step of the Wind*

6 - Power Attack

Level 7 : DERVISH

Dervish Dance 1/day
Movement Mastery
Slashing Blades (Light Scimitars)

Level 8 : Exotic Weapon Master

Uncanny Blow

Level 9 : Dervish

9 - Elusive Target


Mobility is filled with the Mobility armor enchant
TWF upgraded by gloves of the stable Hand


Dwarf allows entry into Exotic Weapon Mastery for Uncanny Blow with one weapon (Which weapon does the follow-up attack after a trip anyway?).

My main problem right now is that many feats (Elusive Target, Acrobatic Strike, Flay Foe) require exactly 6 BAB, putting a lot of competition in that slot. To make matters worse, I only have 5 BAB by that level (Hence the power attack.)

The barbarian dip is mostly for fast movement, which I heard is rather important for Dervish (brings me up to 40ft). If you guys think it is not necessary, I can sub it for another Fighter level.

[Fouredged Sword]

You can get that extra 10ft of move from boots of leaping and striding or a casting of longstrider from a friendly spellcaster. Anything you can get from items isn't worth a level of your build.

[Qc Storm]

You can get that extra 10ft of move from boots of leaping and striding or a casting of longstrider from a friendly spellcaster. Anything you can get from items isn't worth a level of your build.

A sensible advice that I will take in mind. I will use an extra fighter level to pick up Power Attack earlier. What should I take at level 6? Remember I don't have 6 BAB yet.

A few things of note though. Boots of Striding offer an enhancement bonus which does not stack with Dervish's. Longstrider is also a Self-spell.

[Fouredged Sword]

Improved initiative can't be a bad choice.

There is a feat that adds 5ft to your move speed, but that seems like a waste. Stone power could be interesting and allow you to spot tank as needed.