RAW on animal compaions and templates

[CyberThread]

if a PRC gives your animal companion a template, and that template changes the type of creature from animal to magical beast or plant, does it make the animal companion no longer able to gain new abilities and such as you level up ?

[eggynack]

What's the specific case? I think it usually specifies how the progression works out.

[Curmudgeon]

While I agree with eggynack that we need the specifics to be able to answer this fully, all the Druid class features specific to their Animal Companion function only if the companion is actually an Animal. (That is, there is no benefit for Magical Beast Companion.)

Is this one of those combined companion/familiar things? If so, there might be some language making a specific exception for a Magical Beast Companion.

[Yuki Akuma]

If your animal companion ceases to be an animal, it'll cease to be your animal companion (unless you have some sort of ability that overrides that, like a PrC that combines your AC and familiar).

It'll likely still be friendly towards you, and you could potentially take Leadership to keep it around or something.

If a PrC gives a template specifically to your animal companion, the intended use is probably to allow it to continue advancing as an animal companion, though. Even if it doesn't say so.

[Feytalist]

I'm not the OP, but:

One I'm specifically thinking of is the Exalted Companion feat, which allows you to choose certain magical beasts as a companion, or turn your companion into a celestial version. That one specifically allows your companion to be considered an "animal" for the purpose of spells (although, as far as I can remember, not class features, strangely).

[Curmudgeon]

One I'm specifically thinking of is the Exalted Companion feat, which allows you to choose certain magical beasts as a companion, or turn your companion into a celestial version. That one specifically allows your companion to be considered an "animal" for the purpose of spells (although, as far as I can remember, not class features, strangely).

The exalted companion has all the normal abilities of a typical creature of its kind, as well as the characteristics of an animal companion determined by the druid or ranger's level. Looks like you might have overlooked this part.

[Feytalist]

Looks like you might have overlooked this part.

Aha. Yep, looks like I did. Which is good, because it would have been very strange otherwise.

And that sets a precedent, at least. Barring other, more specific instances.

[eggynack]

While I agree with eggynack that we need the specifics to be able to answer this fully, all the Druid class features specific to their Animal Companion function only if the companion is actually an Animal. (That is, there is no benefit for Magical Beast Companion.)

Is this one of those combined companion/familiar things? If so, there might be some language making a specific exception for a Magical Beast Companion.
I agree with you in the general sense, but there are several things that give you a non-animal animal companion, and they generally either present their own progression, or else reference the animal companion progression. Exalted companion is an example that uses the animal companion progression, as you noted, and it can come from a prestige class for bonus points. There're a bunch of other ones that give you alternate progressions, like some of the druid ACF's. In any case, you may be correct that whatever that the replacement non-animal would default to no progression in the absence of an explicit replacement, but I honestly can't think of a non-animal replacement that lacks an explicit progression. Hence, my question about what exactly we're talking about.

[CyberThread]

I am looking at the blightlord PRC specifically, as a two level dip before going into other PRC's


Illmaster: Any animal companions a blightlord possesses gain the blightspawned template (see Chapter 6: Monsters of the East). This does not affect the number of animal companions she may have at any given time.


I am thinking of doing a 2 level dip , to change my animal companion into a plant type, and all the lovely things that come with that. Then roll over into another PRC that continues animal companion + other druid stuff.


*in before comments

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Talontar blightlords gain no proficiency in any weapon or armor. Druids who become blightlords no longer need abide by their weapon and armor restrictions, as the blightlords turn their backs on the conventional druidic traditions.

I am taking this meaning, you keep your druid stuff, as the traditions you vowed to, changes letting you keep the power.



*edit

Why am happy with taking a hit of two companion levels

Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, polymorph, and stunning.
Not subject to critical hits.

[eggynack]

It looks like animal companions would keep the normal progressions, despite becoming a plant. Even if the animal companion might not advance if you keep the same one, the template is gained rather than inherent, so you could call an advanced replacement companion periodically and progress that way. I'd just say that it keeps the progression regularly, but if it doesn't, that's a reasonable workaround. The weapon and armor proficiency changes just mean that you can wear light or medium metal armor. The PrC description says that you're prohibited from wielding glaives as a druid, but the description is lying to you, and your ability to hold a weapon remains unchanged.

As to your vague argument that this is better than straight druid, it really isn't. You lose wild shape advancement and animal companion advancement, along with two feats (unless you're getting glaive proficiency from some other source), and those problems are quite problematic. Taking the class as a two level dip won't cripple you, as the PrC doesn't look like the worst one in the world, but I just wanted to disabuse you of the notion that it's good. Also, if all you want is infinite immunities on your animal companion, you can always just pick up something like elemental companion from Complete Mage. Those guys get most of the immunities you've listed. There're a few options like that, if you're interested.

[CyberThread]

<-< nothing planar sheperd can't fix

[eggynack]

<-< nothing planar sheperd can't fix
That feels a lot more like mixing a mediocre prestige class with one of phenomenal power than some sort of synergy lifting the mediocre prestige class to new heights. It's mostly just Planar Shepherd, Moonspeaker, and Lion of Talisid on the list of prestige classes that either maintain parity with the power level of a straight druid or push you higher. Everything else makes you worse. If you're OK with being worse, and being OK with being worse is fine, go right ahead. However, don't pretend that you're making an optimal choice in the process, because you're not.

[CyberThread]

Well nothing is ever optimal when it comes to a druid, you either have Druid 20 or if you take any PRC you either go average or suddenly shoot into the sky as a god.

Being a little less powerful then a regular druid is not really that harmful.

So I will admit, it is not the super optimized best choice, but you can back off on being so pushy.

[eggynack]

Well nothing is ever optimal when it comes to a druid, you either have Druid 20 or if you take any PRC you either go average or suddenly shoot into the sky as a god.

Being a little less powerful then a regular druid is not really that harmful.

So I will admit, it is not the super optimized best choice, but you can back off on being so pushy.
I don't think I'm being particularly pushy on this issue. Things just are as they are. Losing wild shape progression is significantly more problematic than losing the animal companion in my estimation, and you lose out on both of them without a significantly strong return. In any case, the other two PrC's I mentioned, Moonspeaker and Lion of Talisid, are around a straight druid's power level, so they're worth considering for a druid who wants to be different.

Lion of Talisid isn't that different, but a shifter druid is about as far as you can get from a standard build druid without becoming suboptimal. You get one of the best PrC's: Moonspeaker, one of the best and most complicated ACF's: shifter druid substitution levels (the first two, anyways), and shifter feats continue to operate in a wild shape, so that opens up a whole new world of opportunities. I'm not entirely certain a druid 8/Moonspeaker 12 is better than a druid 20, but it might be, and that's good enough for me.