Full BAB prestige classes before level 6?

[justiceforall]

Hi guys,

Are there any full BAB prestige classes you can qualify for at level 4 and thus take your first level of at 5?

There's quite a few you can take your first level of at 6, but I can't really find any lower than that.

[Greenish]

There's Fist of the Forest (CChamp), and, uh… Blade of Orien (Dragonmarked) can be entered at 5th through a dip in Dragonmark Heir. Shadow Hunter (also Dragonmarked) also counts, and doesn't require jumping through the hoops.

[herrhauptmann]

Not really, most of the prc's with low bab prereqs also have casting/skill prereqs that are hard to meet at level 4or5.

Could probably manage some in Gestalt. But that only gets one level earlier...

Ftr10//rogue6/dwf defender4

[Greenish]

Deneith Warden, Storm Sentry, and Vadalis Beastkeeper from Dragonmarked are also all full BAB, and can be entered at 5th level.

The downside with all of the PrCs from Dragonmarked, though, is that they're campaign specific, and require you to be a given PhB race (no subraces), with the possible exception of Vadalis Beastkeeper.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The Racial Paragon classes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm) for Dwarf, Half-Orc, Orc, and Half-Dragon all grant full BAB. Never use Half-Dragon Paragon.

Branch Dancer (Dragon 310) can be taken at 3rd level, it requires 5 ranks in Balance, Climb, and Kn: Nature, plus Track, nonevil alignment, and a requirement to meet and receive a blessing from a treant.

There are plenty of prestige classes with only a skill prerequisite keeping the minimum entry at 6th. With Bloodline level (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm) abuse they can be taken earlier, as Bloodline levels don't increase your character level, but they do increase your max skill ranks among other things. As a 1st level character you gain a level once you've gained 1,000 xp, if you spend that on a Bloodline level you're still a 1st level character and need only 1,000 xp more to gain another level. Using this method, each Bloodline level will only cost you 1,000 xp ever, and later on you'll catch back up with the rest of the party anyway.

[justiceforall]

What about War Chanter?

The only thing that stuffs it up is generally you can't have BAB +4 *and* bardic music by 4th level, but I seem to recall there's some paladin ACFs and things from FR that can give you Inspire Courage?

(as a random aside, would Purple Dragon Knight's 2nd level ability qualify you for War Chanter?)

[A_S]

Spellsword is marginally possible, though the only entry options I can think of involve some level of cheese or Dragon Magazine content. Mystic Ranger 4 with Alternate Source Spell or a generously interpreted Sword of the Arcane Order is probably the simplest. Duskblade 4 with Versatile Spellcaster and some cheesy way of knowing a 2nd level spell would work too.

*edit* Prestige Paladin with similar caveats.

*edit 2* Oh, wait, forgot Precocious Apprentice wasn't sorc/wiz only. In that case, Duskblade with Precocious Apprentice gets into Spellsword pretty easily.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

What about War Chanter?

The only thing that stuffs it up is generally you can't have BAB +4 *and* bardic music by 4th level, but I seem to recall there's some paladin ACFs and things from FR that can give you Inspire Courage?

(as a random aside, would Purple Dragon Knight's 2nd level ability qualify you for War Chanter?)

You mean Harmonious Knight (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a), which works similar to Bardic Music but is not actually called Bardic Music so it won't work unless your DM is nice.

[Just to Browse]

Chaotician and Knight of the Raven.

[Chronos]

I don't have time to double-check, but I think Paragnostic Initiate (or the other Paragnostic one) from Complete Champion would work. It also has all Knowledge as class skills, which makes it good for qualifying for War Mind's earliest possible entry.

[Segev]

The Iron Chef competition's newest "secret ingredient," the Thrall of Orcus, is enterable at level 4 from either Hexblade or Duskblade. It has two skill prereqs that need 2 ranks each (K:Arcana and Religion), requires a +4 BAB, the feats Lichloved (and its prereq, Evil Brand) and Thrall of Demon, and that you be able to cast "a spell of the necromancy school." It is full BAB, and at least the two classes I just named can meet all prereqs by level 4. (I do think you'd have to be human, though.)


Looking it over, I think its prereq feats are awful and the class features poor, at best. But it does have at least one of those lackluster class features at every level, and it is, as mentioned, a full BAB PrC.

[Gemini476]

The Iron Chef competition's newest "secret ingredient," the Thrall of Orcus, is enterable at level 4 from either Hexblade or Duskblade. It has two skill prereqs that need 2 ranks each (K:Arcana and Religion), requires a +4 BAB, the feats Lichloved (and its prereq, Evil Brand) and Thrall of Demon, and that you be able to cast "a spell of the necromancy school." It is full BAB, and at least the two classes I just named can meet all prereqs by level 4. (I do think you'd have to be human, though.)


Looking it over, I think its prereq feats are awful and the class features poor, at best. But it does have at least one of those lackluster class features at every level, and it is, as mentioned, a full BAB PrC.

...couldn't you get those feats by worshipping an Elder Evil?
I think those are on that list.
Oh, and there's a feat that let's you cast a cantrip, I believe. So you could qualify as any Full BAB class.

[JungleChicken]

I'm not sure if people have said Bone Knight or not yet.
It's actually on of my favorite classes and you can enter AT level 5

[Greenish]

I'm not sure if people have said Bone Knight or not yet.
It's actually on of my favorite classes and you can enter AT level 5But OP is asking for full BAB PrCs. Otherwise we could go around mentioning stuff like Master Specialist.

But speaking of cleric PrCs, Ordained Champion is full BAB and can be entered at 5th.

[Narren]

The Dragonlance Campaign book has the Knight of the Crown, which you can enter by level 4 I believe. No one has ever accused anything coming out of that book as being terribly optimized, but it's there.

[prufock]

This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204298) past thread may help.

[Urpriest]

The downside with all of the PrCs from Dragonmarked, though, is that they're campaign specific, and require you to be a given PhB race (no subraces), with the possible exception of Vadalis Beastkeeper.

That's something I haven't heard before. Do subraces not get Dragonmarks?

[Greenish]

That's something I haven't heard before. Do subraces not get Dragonmarks?Subraces can manifest Aberrant Dragonmarks, but only the PHB default races (or Cataclysm Mages) can sport true Dragonmarks. PGtE has a sidebar on it.

[ArcturusV]

For the sake of completeness, the Maho-Bujin is a full BAB PrC that you could enter as soon as level 2, presuming you can acquire 10 Taint without being drained to 0 in your stats, and that your party or some random people don't kill you during the period where you make the pilgrimage to become a Maho-Bujin.

[Nightraiderx]

Warshaper BAB+4 and some sort of shape change so two lvls of warshaper
using something like changeling or shifter, OR getting it using the wildshape ranger alt.

[Deadline]

Assuming you can work in the prerequisites (which is possible in a few ways), the current Iron Chef Challenge ingredient fits the bill.

[Chronos]

Warshaper BAB+4 and some sort of shape change so two lvls of warshaper
using something like changeling or shifter, OR getting it using the wildshape ranger alt.
Wildshape Ranger doesn't get Wildshape until level 5, and while a shifter can technically qualify for the class at level 4, they can't actually make use of the abilities. Changeling does still work, though.

[Venger]

I don't have time to double-check, but I think Paragnostic Initiate (or the other Paragnostic one) from Complete Champion would work. It also has all Knowledge as class skills, which makes it good for qualifying for War Mind's earliest possible entry.

paragnostic apostle is the other one. however, it's poor BA, unlike paragnostic initiate.


...couldn't you get those feats by worshipping an Elder Evil?
I think those are on that list.

yes you could, since all of those feats are vile (in both senses of the word)


Warshaper BAB+4 and some sort of shape change so two lvls of warshaper
using something like changeling or shifter, OR getting it using the wildshape ranger alt.

warshaper is not full BA, it's average.

[Fax Celestis]

require you to be a given PhB race (no subraces)

What? Why not? A wild elf is still a Humanoid (Elf) and as such qualifies for things that have Required Race: Elf.

[herrhauptmann]

What? Why not? A wild elf is still a Humanoid (Elf) and as such qualifies for things that have Required Race: Elf.

I think it might be like a Caste System thing where different subraces are different castes.
So only 'high elves' get the supergood dragonmark because they don't mingle their blood with lesser castes. At the same time, they might still go to bladesinger school with halfelves and wild elves.

[Greenish]

What? Why not? A wild elf is still a Humanoid (Elf) and as such qualifies for things that have Required Race: Elf.Why, you'd have to ask the developers. I suspect it was to encourage people to play PHB races (though giving half-orcs only one dragonmark, shared with humans, would've been an enormous misfire then).

As for the rule, it's in PGtE, page 47, and is quite clear on the point.

[A_S]

What? Why not? A wild elf is still a Humanoid (Elf) and as such qualifies for things that have Required Race: Elf.
As Greenish mentioned, the restriction is in a sidebar on p. 47 of PGtE. Only the base versions can get standard dragonmarks; subraces can get aberrant marks.

Fluff-wise, it's because dragonmarks are supposed to be restricted not only to specific races, but to specific houses within those races. It'd be a bit weird for a single family of elves to include both high and wild elves.

*edit* Swordsage'd.