The 23 ½ Ronin

[Palanan]

I'm thinking of running an introductory session that's loosely based on the story of the 47 Ronin, in which the loyal retainers of a disgraced feudal lord storm the winter residence of his archrival. My plan is to use this as a way to bring a low-level party together for the first time, hired by the archrival to defend his threatened home.

I like the overall scenario, but adapting it could be a little tricky, since there were forty-seven ronin (give or take a couple) and they were extremely well-prepared, with sound tactics that would roll right over a small party of low-level defenders. I can always reduce the number of attackers, but I want the resolution to leave the PCs with a "forged in fire" sense of unity.

So, how can I fine-tune this scenario, with enough attackers to make a second-level party very, very worried, but without destroying them completely?

[Icarusthefallen]

What is the experience level of your players? That will help a lot in deciding how to go about it.


Also, what is the party make up. A group of fighters can stand a bigger onslaught spread over a period of time better than a group of casters can in most cases.

General advice without knowning these bits of information, I would say to set up the standard battleground and roll the 47 Ronin at the characters in small waves, if needed have more join the fight every 1dsomanyrounds. Also, you may wish to give the players a small break inbetween waves so as to drink potions freely, reload crossbows etc. If the group is more experienced you may want to add in enviromental controls that they could utilize. Any more information you can give can add to advice I might have.

[ArcturusV]

I'd go for the Fire Brigade style rather than waves style myself. You want to give the party a sense that there are 47 enemies attacking, all at once. But not have them actually dealing with them. Give them an encounter you'll think is fair, like a party of 5 level 2 characters dealing with 2 of level 5, prepared Ronin. And let them know through appropriate hints that the world isn't standing still for their fight. That while they are dealing with these two dangerous Ronin, other retainers/guards are being overwhelmed, people are storming the castle at various places, etc. This allows them to do things in manageable chunks rather than fighting everything at once and gives them some control over the pacing of the battle as, once they clear their first encounter, it's up to the players to choose their destiny and pick fights. Do they help that guard being pressured and about to be killed by a Ronin? Do they try to help secure one of the inner gates instead? Do they try to help the Lord escape? Do they try to rally some of the other guards who are not hip deep in trouble for a counter attack?

If you do this right I think it'd be a lot more interesting than making the ronin all level 1 mooks to be mowed down in waves.

[Icarusthefallen]

I do like ArcturusV's suggestion. It would lend itself to good utilization of their combat prowless as well as give a strong roleplay aspect the the entire encounter as a whole. Will take some prep work on your part as the DM but would be very rewarding. I miss games that had that type of play style and I applaud you ArcturusV. My groups have drained a lot of my classic style for this new age hack and slash combat to combat style and I despise it.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by ArcturusV
*instant good advice, just add water!*

I agree, that's an excellent suggestion, thanks. I did want to use something other than first-level yahoos for the attackers, to give the PCs the sense that they're in for a tough, savage fight.

I won't be following the historical raid precisely, but one aspect I want to keep is a complex internal layout for the defenders' residence, which requires the attackers to storm room to room, dealing with servants or defenders on a case-by-case basis. This could be a good way for the PCs to take on attackers one or two at a time--but it could also lead to the PCs being surrounded and overwhelmed, attacked from several adjoining rooms at once.

One other aspect I'd like to keep, at least in part, is the ronins' strategy of putting a number of archers on the outside walls of the compound, taking out anyone who tried to escape into the courtyard and raise the alarm. Again, there's the risk of feathering a PC with half a dozen arrows if he takes it into his head to run outside--but for the attackers not to post archers on the perimeter would be a glaring lapse in tactics.

[nedz]

What level are the PCs ?
What is the OP level of the party ?
How competent are the players ?

[Icarusthefallen]

As for your concerns with the strategies and the outcome on the party, that is where you as the DM would give a bit of a nudge, unless you don't mind TPK and believe me, if the party plays stupid I have no issues with wiping the floor with them.

Put archers on the roof and just before one of the PCs goes running out have a NPC, a servant or what have you, run ahead of them and get feathered, warning the PC not to make the same mistake.

For getting surrounded, give the PCs a warning about noise from adjacent rooms of the fight and which way it seems to be going. That sort of thing should work to keep them aware of their surroundings.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by nedz
What level are the PCs ?
What is the OP level of the party ?
How competent are the players ?

The PCs will probably be second level, and I'm working up the scenario as a lead-in to a longer campaign, so this is all development work.


Originally Posted by Icarusthefallen
Put archers on the roof and just before one of the PCs goes running out have a NPC, a servant or what have you, run ahead of them and get feathered, warning the PC not to make the same mistake.

Either that, or let the PC roll for a Spot check to see several bodies in the courtyard ahead of him, sprawled with several arrows apiece. That would work for some players, at least.

:smallamused:




Originally Posted by Icarusthefallen
For getting surrounded, give the PCs a warning about noise from adjacent rooms of the fight and which way it seems to be going. That sort of thing should work to keep them aware of their surroundings.

Once I get a general sense of how I want to structure it, I'll work up a round-by-round timeline of the attackers' approach, entry and initial forays. I've used that approach in the past ("on Round 7, the first two ronin burst into the north tea-room") and it's the only way I can keep things straight for a complex encounter with many individuals.

[Icarusthefallen]

Well, it seems like you have your ideas and are ready to roll. Good luck and have fun. Let us know what your final ideas were and how it played out with the players. If you need anything else send me a message and I'll be glad to try and help.

[Palanan]

Well, I'm a long way from having final ideas, since I still don't have a sense of exactly how many assailants I'll need, nor what classes and levels they should be.

I'm basing the scenario on the 47 Ronin, but I'm certainly not committed to a particular number. And I'm just starting to think about what levels they should be, and how to structure the flow of combat through the interior of the residence.

So, suggestions still welcome, one and all!

[nedz]

The PCs will probably be second level, and I'm working up the scenario as a lead-in to a longer campaign, so this is all development work.

Right, well I was going to suggest ..., but at level 2 it's not going to work.

Have the Ronin raid a castle which the PCs happen to be visiting and have them attempt to take down the Lord of the keep. The PCs are bystanders, but they may choose to get involved — an either side — or not.

[Palanan]

Thanks, but I'd rather have the PCs committed to the defense of the residence, since that makes it more likely they'll stand and fight rather than trying to escape.

Right now I'm wondering how to pace the encounter so they're gradually worn down, but not so much that they're scraping bottom for spells and etc. if a higher-level ronin makes his way to the heart of the compound. They may resort to throwing teacups before it's over.

:smalltongue:

[karkus]

The 23 ½ Ronin

Are they halflings? :smallamused:

[Pickford]

Right, well I was going to suggest ..., but at level 2 it's not going to work.

Have the Ronin raid a castle which the PCs happen to be visiting and have them attempt to take down the Lord of the keep. The PCs are bystanders, but they may choose to get involved — an either side — or not.

Agreed, unless these ronin are kobolds...and then you're looking at 32 for a one-off encounter for level 2s.

[bekeleven]

Right now I'm wondering how to pace the encounter so they're gradually worn down, but not so much that they're scraping bottom for spells and etc. if a higher-level ronin makes his way to the heart of the compound. They may resort to throwing teacups before it's over.
This is very hard. At second level, characters aren't durable and don't have many resources (HP, Spells per day, action economy boosters, money for consumables). When HP is still in the range of "Full to dead in a crit", you'll find it nearly impossible to reliably give your players a bloody nose.

[nedz]

Yes quite, also the PCs don't have the resources to handle large numbers of enemies at level 2.

I think that this is an excellent encounter idea, but that you should save it until the party is slightly higher level.

[Waker]

Aside from asking if you can challenge the party, you might also ask if you want the party to be successful. Plan for the party to succeed or fail, having the outcome affect future story choices. If the party is unsuccessful, perhaps they could attempt to avenge their own fallen lord.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by bekeleven
This is very hard. At second level, characters aren't durable and don't have many resources.... When HP is still in the range of "Full to dead in a crit", you'll find it nearly impossible to reliably give your players a bloody nose.


Originally Posted by nedz
I think that this is an excellent encounter idea, but that you should save it until the party is slightly higher level.

It's tricky, indeed, and these are certainly good points. I'd still like to use the approach ArcturusV suggested, with most of the fighting in manageable chunks throughout the interior of the compound, but the issue with resources is a tough one. It wouldn't make sense to have random magical items scattered throughout the compound, waiting to be used--that would be absurd, more like a video game, which I want to avoid.

However, it's not unreasonable that the paranoid lord would give them a little emergency spending money, which would let the party grab a few items beyond their ordinary WBL. At second level, I'd want to be sure to limit that to extra potions, a nearly-empty wand or the like, so they don't try to pool their money for a +1 flaming burst katana or something. Players will think of all sorts of things. : /


Originally Posted by Waker
Plan for the party to succeed or fail, having the outcome affect future story choices. If the party is unsuccessful, perhaps they could attempt to avenge their own fallen lord.

Also good suggestions. My default plan would be for the party to succeed, because the attacking ronin will slaughter anyone who stands between them and their target. Hmm.

Definitely a tricky scenario, and there's a lot to be said for letting it slide until slightly higher levels. Alas, that wouldn't fit with my ideas for the broader campaign to follow, which I've pegged to start at third level.

I'm still working up ideas, and haven't started recruiting for the campaign yet, although I do have a couple folks in mind. I really don't like steering players towards particular classes, but I'm wondering if, when the time comes, I shouldn't make sure that a couple of the players go for decent spellcasting classes.

--Or I could add an NPC with a healing focus, which might be a less pushy approach. I already have a couple basic builds for low-level NPC healers, and the lord assigning his house healer to stay close to the party would make a certain sense.

Hmm.

[Icarusthefallen]

--Or I could add an NPC with a healing focus, which might be a less pushy approach. I already have a couple basic builds for low-level NPC healers, and the lord assigning his house healer to stay close to the party would make a certain sense.

Hmm.

That or anything else that the party would lack to make sure that they are well supported. And instead of the magic items sprinkled throughout perhaps a varying of NPCs in the various rooms to assist as needed. You know if the spellcaster is running low and they need support there, there just happens to be a retainer there with casting, or a beefy fighter in the next room who comes to help deal with the intruders etc. Just a thought... Also, have you found a good layout yet? If not I will try to draw one up tonight... Not sure how I will send it to you though.:smalltongue:

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Icarusthefallen
...if the spellcaster is running low and they need support there, there just happens to be a retainer there with casting, or a beefy fighter in the next room who comes to help deal with the intruders etc.

Well, there may be a large, handy retainer or two who helps with the defense, strictly as a martial backup, but there probably won't be any spellcasting retainers other than a healer, or possibly someone with a level or two in magewright or the equivalent. The idea is that the party (or the random new-hires who will become the party) will be providing most of the "extraordinary" defenses.

This will probably be difficult to pull off the way I'm hoping, for all the reasons mentioned earlier; but I still like the idea, and I'll see if I can make it work.

[ArcturusV]

Thing is, it'd make sense for a lord to provide emergency supplies to retainers like that. So healing potions? Makes sense. Blessed bandages, sure. Itemsliek this are fine and should do well at making the more mundane teammates be able to go through the adventure. Go ahead and give them a limited stockpile of these depending on your estimates of need.

But spellcasters? Well as bad as this may sound? Let them suffer. Being a low level mage is about knowing when to leverage a very limited resource (Spells per day) for maximum effect. It's a different sort of playstyle but encouraging your casters not to "blow their wad" but husband their resources appropriately at these low levels is perfectly valid.

Then again I'm of the mindset that casters (Or any character really) doesn't need to be able to dominate and do their thing every encounter every day. But they do need that "Crowning Moment of Glory" where something just clicks and they get a chance to be heroic and awesome at some point.

Encourage your casters to also consider their mundane skill selection. With an appropriate skill you can probably make them into the "Combat Engineer" during the siege, letting them do things like trigger defenses or traps that they had set up or were built into the castle, for an added bonus. I might have done something like that, if a spellcaster player told me he was interested in such things and worried about having only 3 spells plus a few cantrips.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by ArcturusV
Thing is, it'd make sense for a lord to provide emergency supplies to retainers like that.... Go ahead and give them a limited stockpile of these depending on your estimates of need.

Things like blessed bandages are right in the range I was thinking--very mildly magical, but not out of place in a wealthy household. If you have other suggestions along these lines, I'd be much obliged.


Originally Posted by ArcturusV
Being a low level mage is about knowing when to leverage a very limited resource (Spells per day) for maximum effect.... But they do need that "Crowning Moment of Glory" where something just clicks and they get a chance to be heroic and awesome at some point.

Yup, they will definitely need to husband their resources, and I do like the idea of letting them sweat their handful of rapidly dwinding spells. That's one of the most challenging aspects of playing a low-level caster, and it makes you value those extra spell slots all the more when you finally do level up.

As for the CMOA, I find that those tend to come up naturally as the game unfolds. One of the cooler emergent properties of an intensely played scenario.

:smalltongue:

[John Longarrow]

Were I setting up the fight, I'd have the compound mapped out with the players knowing where everything is. I'd also give them an area they are responsible for, that way you don't have 47 mid level killers walking over them.

For the attack force, I'd suggest infiltrators (sword sage and/or beguilers) that allow the attackers to gain entry. Say 1 per 8 attackers. I'd also have 2 ranged attack specialists (either fighter or fighter/ranger) per 8, 4 warblades or crusaders, and a fighting cleric.

I'd have 5 groups like that, 1 of which attacks each side and one in reserve. I'd also have a group of 7 as the "Leaders". They would be higher level and heavy on melee ability.

Keeping with the story, these ronin would have weapons but no armor. They are going at it by stealth, so they can't afford to charge in full battle array.

For the player, they need to slow down 1 of the 5 groups long enough for the other defenders to take care of the rest. From a battle progression standpoint, I'd also let the players know if they are loosing too fast or if another area is. Who ever is getting pushed back the fastest gets the reserve unit and the leaders thrown at them.

Within the compound I'd have healers set a pre-selected rooms. If you get hurt bad, you go there. Each one has a magic holy symbol that lets them cast cure minor once per round. at 2nd level it should take more than a minute to get the party tank back up, time they may or may not have.

Between the attackers having a relatively poor AC and them trying to force their way through defenses, the players should have a more even fight. Toss in strong points for the defenders, traps they know about and can lead attackers into, dead ends, and troops that will be called by an alarm bell and your party should feel very pressured to stop the attackers for a while without the fight feeling overwhelming.

If the players know they just need to hold out for a little longer, they will feel the tension without feeling like they can't win. That should be the trick here. If the players do really good, they may even be able to reinforce another area that IS getting overwhelmed.

[Palanan]

Thanks for the well-considered suggestions there, worth keeping in mind. A few comments on specific points:


Originally Posted by John Longarrow
For the attack force, I'd suggest infiltrators (sword sage and/or beguilers) that allow the attackers to gain entry. Say 1 per 8 attackers. I'd also have 2 ranged attack specialists (either fighter or fighter/ranger) per 8, 4 warblades or crusaders, and a fighting cleric.

Man, you put together a mean assault team. :smalltongue:

I won't be using ToB, and I'd been planning on the attackers being entirely martial, but a beguiler is tempting to include. For ranged builds I've gravitated towards the feat-rogue chassis, but fighter/ranger is worth thinking about.


Originally Posted by John Longarrow
Keeping with the story, these ronin would have weapons but no armor. They are going at it by stealth, so they can't afford to charge in full battle array.

I've only read one book on the incident, which is Stephen Turnbull's Revenge of the 47 Ronin (http://www.amazon.com/Revenge-47-Ronin-1703-Raid/dp/1849084270/), and according to him the ronin wore light armor for the raid, including light mail, padded jackets, throat guards and helmets. All of this might well have been homemade, as the stories suggest.

Just to clarify, I'm not aiming to duplicate the incident, only to use it as a basis for a campaign scenario. That said, the attackers here will probably be following the historical example, and for the reasons you give.


Originally Posted by John Longarrow
Toss in strong points for the defenders, traps they know about and can lead attackers into, dead ends, and troops that will be called by an alarm bell and your party should feel very pressured to stop the attackers for a while without the fight feeling overwhelming.

If the players know they just need to hold out for a little longer, they will feel the tension without feeling like they can't win.

That's really what I'm going for--the sense of hard pressure, without completely surrendering to a hopeless defeat. I've seen players essentially give up in scenarios I felt certain they could handle, and keeping it from seeming unwinnable is a real challenge.

I also like the suggestion of a room or rooms reserved for the wounded, although that's the sort of thing I'm hoping the players will come up with on their own. I want them to feel actively responsible for organizing and executing the defense.

[John Longarrow]

As I understand the real 47 made their own armor to avoid suspicion. For an adventure based off of it, I'd have them go in sans armor mostly to allow the players a better chance.

I was thinking Tome of Battle because it always had a better "Martial Artist" feel to it than the base classes. If you only want to do base, you can still work out a very similar group.

I was thinking 4 groups rather than the traditional 2 mostly to keep the attack groups in the range of what a party can deal with.

If you have 8 attackers, 1 will be ahead doing a quick recon. For a non ToB build, I'd suggest Rogue 3, Monk 2. He goes in with alchemical toys to identify / hinder defenders (smoke sticks, tanglefoot bags, thunderstones, etc..) while the following teams move in. 2 warrior 5 archers (Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot) provide cover and escort the 5th level cleric. The other 4 fighters move in pairs to clear the building, following their sneaky guy doing recon.

From the players perspective, they get to fight a 5th level sneaky unarmed attacker, then a pair of 5th level fighters that pretty much only have swords, then another pair of fighters (showing up based on how easy/hard the first pair were). Then they can either help out anther spot being attacked or see if they can clear the two archers and the cleric to allow the lord a way out.

For most parties, this is an CR 5 fight followed by a pair of CR 7s, sort of. Since none of the attackers has close to their normal wealth these should feel closer to a CR 3 and a pair of CR 5's. If the archers have normal bows the fight outside should be about a CR 6 (Cleric still has full spells), or they get help dealing with more CR 3/CR 5 fights until the main assault comes in.