[3.5] More then one Favoured Weapon?

[A.A.King]

Personally I like the Weapon Focus line, I like knowing that when I'm fighting with my weapon of choice I'm better then any other slum who just happens to have proficiency with my weapon (which frankly is too easy to come by IMO). But what if you want to focus on using more then one weapon. What if you want to switch between Two-Handing and Two-Weapon Fighting regularly, between a normal and a reach weapon or between a rapier and a longbow? What if you want to be like the golfer, where depending upon the situation you switch between your putter, your Iron 7 or your Adamantine 5 but with the difference being that you can't just take Greater Weapon Specialization (Club) and be done with it.

What I want to know is, what ways are there to be better then your average Joe with the right proficiency with more then just your go-to Longsword in a way which is reasonable? And I'm not talking about just high stats or the right spells, I'm looking for feats and abilities (and possibly items if they are really good) which allow me to be the kind of guy who looks at the situation he is in, calmly ask his caddie for the right weapon and then go Tiger Woods on their ass.

So far I got:
Dwarven Fighter 1: Gives you Axe Focus, which is the same as Weapon Focus for Axe Weapons
Kobold Fighter 1: Gives you Spear Focus, which is the same as Weapon Focus for the Longspear, the Spear and the Short Spear
Half-Elf Fighter 1: Gives you Blade Focus, which is weapon focus for Rapier and Longsword. Not really usefull compared to the other two because the weapons aren't diverse enough.

Melee/Ranged Weapon Mastery: The most obvious one, it adds +2 to both Attack and Damage rolls too all Melee/Ranged Weapon (depending on the feat) as long as it deals the chosen damage type (bludgeoning, piercing or slashing). The biggest drawback of this feat is that it requires 4 Figther levels to pick up Weapon Specialization (unless I don't know of a way which can get you Weapon Specialization without 4 Fighter Levels)


So, what other ways are there to improve your combat abilities with more then 1 melee/ranged weapon at the time but not with all melee/ranged weapons?

[PraxisVetli]

I wanna say it's Warblade, that gives you a (possibly 1st lvl) ability that, after training for an hour with said weapon, converts your WF line over to the new weapon. Not as useful mid-encounter, but nice if you intend to feed your way straight to Supremacy, since Warblade counts as fighter lvls for the purpose of Feat Prereqs.
And hey, who wants to say no to such Beautiful things as Diamond Mind?

[Greenish]

Elven Light/Thin/Courtblade share feats with corresponding martial weapons.

Warblades get to switch their weapon specific feats around.

[A.A.King]

I didn't include Warblade because it still only really lets you have 1 favoured weapon. It's a great ability to have of course, in case you find a nice magic weapon in a dungeon which is not your type of favoured weapon but not quiet the caddie ability I'm looking for.

I don't know anything about Elven Light/Thin/Courtblade. Where can I find this?

[PraxisVetli]

I didn't include Warblade because it still only really lets you have 1 favoured weapon. It's a great ability to have of course, in case you find a nice magic weapon in a dungeon which is not your type of favoured weapon but not quiet the caddie ability I'm looking for.

I don't know anything about Elven Light/Thin/Courtblade. Where can I find this?

I wanna say Races of Faerun has them, though not sure.

[GreenETC]

I believe the best way to TWF and THF on the same character is to weild a Greatsword and Armor Spikes and just hit things a lot.

[PraxisVetli]

Try finding combo weapons? For instance, your example of a longbow and a rapier, isn't there a bladed bow somewhere? I know you can stick bayonets on a crossbow..
Regardless of all the slam it gets, solely for the example, put a gyrspike on your greatsword.

[Kuulvheysoon]

I wanna say Races of Faerun has them, though not sure.

Races of the Wild.

And while (extremely) sub-optimal, double weapons with different weapons might count (take the dwarven urgosh, for example).

[Greenish]

I don't know anything about Elven Light/Thin/Courtblade. Where can I find this?Races of the Wild. They're poncy elven versions of short sword, rapier, and greatsword, respectively.

[A.A.King]

I'm not looking for ways to make 1 weapon do everything, I'm looking for nice ways to have multiple different weapons which are more part of me then simply one of the many proficiency. I like the idea of having "A weapon for every occasion" even though I know it's sub-optimal.

Looked at the elven blade thing (thanks for the source Kuulvheysoon edit: and Greenish) and still too narrow a focus. I'm looking for things similar to Axe/Spear Focus and Melee Weapon Mastery (a bonus if it includes a way for me to take Melee Weapon Mastery without Fighter 4)

[PraxisVetli]

Races of the Wild.

And while (extremely) sub-optimal, double weapons with different weapons might count (take the dwarven urgosh, for example).


Races of the Wild. They're poncy elven versions of short sword, rapier, and greatsword, respectively.

My bad.
Why are Double Weapons so bad?
Edit: Wouldn't Double Weapons be nice for this? Different weapons and different enchantments for different situations. Is there anything stopping you from a +1 Shocking Quickloading Crossbow with Adamantine bolts, equipped with a Cold Iron +1 Flaming Bayonet?
I know the example isn't exact, but apply the same logic to Kuulvheysoon's Urgosh suggestion.


OR, Where's the variant that seperates weapons not but D&D type (i.e. martial/exotic/simple) but by legitimate type (polearm, axe, sword).
I think it's UA that has it, I know it's on the SRD.
See if your DM won't allow you to take Weapon Focus "Hammer," then have it apply to any hammerish weapon.

[Greenish]

Why are Double Weapons so bad?Because most of them cost a feat. Also you can't finesse them, and TWF wants Dex, so they're making you MAD (unless ranger). The ability to be used as two-handers has some use, but mostly you're burning a feat to get an average of +1 damage on your off-hand attacks.

[Darrin]

I believe the best way to TWF and THF on the same character is to weild a Greatsword and Armor Spikes and just hit things a lot.

A double weapon also works just as well, and you can switch between TWF and THF just by changing your grip (free action). If you don't have weapon familiarity with anything decent, a quarterstaff works just fine.

If you need to switch between ranged, THF, and TWF, then an Elvencraft longbow (Races of the Wild) does pretty much everything without wasting any actions to switch weapons. Also, if you're using Ancestral Relic to get around a cheapskate DM or low-WBL game, this same feat can be used to enchant it as a ranged weapon or both ends as melee weapons.

[PraxisVetli]

Because most of them cost a feat. Also you can't finesse them, and TWF wants Dex, so they're making you MAD (unless ranger). The ability to be used as two-handers has some use, but mostly you're burning a feat to get an average of +1 damage on your off-hand attacks.

Is "MAD" an acronym?

[Greenish]

Is "MAD" an acronym?Yes, in this case of multiple attribute dependency (as in, you'd need Str for hit and damage, and Dex to qualify for TWF feats).

[PraxisVetli]

Yes, in this case of multiple attribute dependency (as in, you'd need Str for hit and damage, and Dex to qualify for TWF feats).

Oh ok.
New to most of the acronyms, all this fancy lingo catches me off guard occasionally. Definately a point there then, though a two lvl dip in ranger may not be so bad, Track doesn't come up often, but nice to have when you need it, and the free TWF is nice, unless looking to go the whole line.
Edit:
HEY, doesn't Tempest let you switch your WF feats back and forth between your two hands? I mean, OP never implied he wanted the TWF line, but a dab into ranger and then tempest, wielding either the armour spike set, or a Gyr'd Greatsword, or something so funky as a Lajatang (though that would require a Exotic Weapon Master dip) could work. Unfortunately though, the setup you would need would end up consuming a fair amount of your character. This may or may not be an issue, depends what you intend to be at 20.

[PraxisVetli]

Otherwise, it's a little offset from the actual WF line, but the base concept is the same.
Get a Morphing Weapon (MiC).
Take Kensai.
Call it a day.

[A.A.King]

I have not yet any intent to be any specif class, though two levels of ranger for the ability to fight with two weapons more easily without having to have a high dexterity to take it

Tempest however requires Improved Two-Weapon Fighting which would mean 6 Ranger levels to do if I want to have a low dexterity. Add the fact that it requires the Spring Attack Chain means that it is two much build on Two-Weapon Fighting. The ability of it sharing feats however is very nice for when you want to use a feat like High Sword Low Axe or another similiar tactial feat based around Two-Weapon Fighting with two different weapons. It's just too much of a TWF and not enough of a Golfer.

EDIT: Remember that this is not an attempt to fully optimize a melee build, it's an attempt to optimize as good as possible a melee build with the restriction it has to be build around multiple weapons in such away that not 1 style is ALWAYS better. You have two-handing for the 1-on-1s, two-weapon for the large group battles, throwing for ranged and maybe even a trip or other special-attack type of weapon if easy to add.

[Andezzar]

Not sure if the OP has the power to introduce this to the campaign, but this variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/weaponGroupFeats.htm) might be interesting.

[Otep]

i had a dwarven fighter at one point who had a similiar thought process.

after working a few drug deals, i settled for the Dwarven Urgrosh. Axe on one side, Spear on the other (both seperatly enchanted with a silver spear tip :D)

the drug deal was to allow it to be used as a bludgeoning weapon as well
(Me: LOOK AT IT! it has a hammer head on the other side of the blade!)

didnt work out so well, but he did allow me to use it as a MW quarterstaff (one side only due to the axe head thing)

not quite what your looking for but its similar...

[eggynack]

Oh ok.
New to most of the acronyms, all this fancy lingo catches me off guard occasionally.
You should check out the list of common acronyms, abbreviations, and terms (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18512). It's pretty neat for this kinda thing.

@ A.A. King: I don't think it's entirely clear what you're looking for. Different weapons aren't all that different, and most of the things that incentivize a weapon style are pretty disparate. If you want to do two things, you basically have to find a way to pick up two feat chains, generally by getting lotsa feats. A whirling frenzy barbarian, preferably with wolf and spirit lion totem, is a good dip for this, because improved trip supports guisarme fighting, spirit lion totem supports any melee style, and whirling frenzy supports just about anything you'd want to do with a weapon. After that, pick up a couple of ranger or fighter levels, and get some feats off of a different chain if you want. Probably bow use, because TWF is both mediocre and resource intensive. In any case, working this generically is kinda pointless. You should just decide what weapons you want to stab people with, and figure out a build around those.

[A.A.King]

You should check out the list of common acronyms, abbreviations, and terms (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18512). It's pretty neat for this kinda thing.

@ A.A. King: I don't think it's entirely clear what you're looking for. Different weapons aren't all that different, and most of the things that incentivize a weapon style are pretty disparate. If you want to do two things, you basically have to find a way to pick up two feat chains, generally by getting lotsa feats. A whirling frenzy barbarian, preferably with wolf and spirit lion totem, is a good dip for this, because improved trip supports guisarme fighting, spirit lion totem supports any melee style, and whirling frenzy supports just about anything you'd want to do with a weapon. After that, pick up a couple of ranger or fighter levels, and get some feats off of a different chain if you want. Probably bow use, because TWF is both mediocre and resource intensive. In any case, working this generically is kinda pointless. You should just decide what weapons you want to stab people with, and figure out a build around those.

I was afraid I was being unclear. I guess that the basic thing I'm looking for is feats or abilities which improve your fighting abilities with more then 1 specific weapon but less then all. Like the examples I gave in the OP

[Uhtred]

Aptitude enchantment from ToB would let you do this exact thing for the cost of a +1 enchantment. Used it to great effect to hit Weapon Supremacy with my Fullblade, then threw Aptitude on my Greatbow so all those feats would apply to it, too. Apply to all weapons. Profit.

[Skevvix]

If you just end up taking weapon focus multiple times, for each of the weapons you have, you should check out the weapon style feats (http://dndtools.eu/feats/categories/style/). They give you a bonus when using two weapons that you are specialized in.

[Abaddona]

Maybe Exotic Weapon Master PrC? It let's you perform weapon tricks with weapons. There is also feat which allows you to synchronize with magical weapons (+1 to to hit and damage rolls AFAIR but you need 24 hours to switch such weapon). There is also of course knowledge devotion but it's probably not what you are looking for.

[A.A.King]

Aptitude enchantment from ToB would let you do this exact thing for the cost of a +1 enchantment. Used it to great effect to hit Weapon Supremacy with my Fullblade, then threw Aptitude on my Greatbow so all those feats would apply to it, too. Apply to all weapons. Profit.

Yeah, this does pretty much what I hoped to achieve, in a much much easier way then I thought (in exchange for being limited to weapons for which you bought the enhancement).

[Kuulvheysoon]

Maybe combine two of the solutions - a +1 morphing aptitude weapon should be what you're looking for.

[Andezzar]

Morphing cannot change a two-handed weapon into a one-handed/light weapon or vice versa. The OP wanted to switch between TWF and THF.

[A.A.King]

It would also become very expensive if I wanted special enhancement for special occasions. For example I want a Returning Weapon for ranged attacks, so then I would have a +1 Morphing Returning Aptitude Weapon. Much easier to have 3 Aptitude Weapons, one with the returning enhancement (which will also be the offhand weapon) and the other having a different extra enhancement most suited for their style of fighting

[Andezzar]

If you want to limit yourself to spears, look at the changeling property. It costs a flat 2000 gp and lets you change a spear into a short spear or longspear as a swift action. Short and regular spears can be thrown with a range increment of 20 ft (the javelin gets 30 ft).

[Uhtred]

Morphing cannot change a two-handed weapon into a one-handed/light weapon or vice versa. The OP wanted to switch between TWF and THF.

Pretend for a moment that the OP had (for some reason) taken an EWP for a "too crazy to wield in one hand without special training," like a katana or a bastard sword. It's a two-handed martial weapon, and a one-handed exotic weapon. If he put the Morphing enchantment on it, would it be able to morph any weapon in any of the three categories: one-handed, two-handed, and exotic one-handed? And with Aptitude it would expand the EWP feat to include any weapon in that third category, like a maul or a Dwarven Waraxe?

[Andezzar]

No, there are only three categories (light, one-handed, two-handed). Additionally a bastard swords and war axes always are two-handed weapons, you just can also wield them as one-handed weapons.

[PraxisVetli]

Not sure if the OP has the power to introduce this to the campaign, but this variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/weaponGroupFeats.htm) might be interesting.
I was going to post something about that, could't remember what it was called and my google-fu failed me.

It would also become very expensive if I wanted special enhancement for special occasions. For example I want a Returning Weapon for ranged attacks, so then I would have a +1 Morphing Returning Aptitude Weapon. Much easier to have 3 Aptitude Weapons, one with the returning enhancement (which will also be the offhand weapon) and the other having a different extra enhancement most suited for their style of fighting

This is true, however, what if you combined both ideas? If you were able to take the Weapon Group, then get a Morphing of each. Expensive, but versatile.
Does a +1 Morphing Sizing longsword work? Make it small to count as a dagger, then Large for Greatsword? If you Monkey Grip, still a one-hander, near the same damage, and covers a variety.
It is going a bit out of your way though.

[A.A.King]

Neh, I don't think I can get that variant into play. We don't use many variants, it's a shame because I feel that the Weapon Group Variant is a much better version.

[Andezzar]

Does a +1 Morphing Sizing longsword work? Make it small to count as a dagger, then Large for Greatsword? If you Monkey Grip, still a one-hander, near the same damage, and covers a variety.
It is going a bit out of your way though.No, weapon sizes do not work that way in 3.5. A medium Longsword cannot be wielded as an appropriately sized shortsword by a large creature. It can only be wielded as an inappropriately sized Longsword. The sizing property only changes for which size of creatures the weapon is sized appropriately.

[Greenish]

No, weapon sizes do not work that way in 3.5. A medium Longsword cannot be wielded as an appropriately sized shortsword by a large creature. It can only be wielded as an inappropriately sized Longsword. The sizing property only changes for which size of creatures the weapon is sized appropriately.What about a morphing changeling spear? Turn it into short spear, morph into any one-handed weapon, turn it back to short spear, chance it to spear, morph it into any two-hander.

[Andezzar]

What about a morphing changeling spear? Turn it into short spear, morph into any one-handed weapon, turn it back to short spear, chance it to spear, morph it into any two-hander.That would work, but you could not get a light weapon, which is preferable for TWF, with this setup.