Can Nale and Z come back as hellspawn? [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

View Full Version : Can Nale and Z come back as hellspawn?

hoff

2013-09-10, 09:16 PM

Just wondering, Z mentioned that one of the reason that he works for the linear guild is the "pay's good". I assume the person who is paying he and Nale are the Archefiends. I wonder if the payment is high-tier demon/devil/daemon transformation upon death. You know, instead of all the centuries of torture upon the person soul.

Domino Quartz

2013-09-10, 10:34 PM

Just wondering, Z mentioned that one of the reason that he works for the linear guild is the "pay's good". I assume the person who is paying he and Nale are the Archefiends.

Why would you assume that?

NerdyKris

2013-09-10, 10:42 PM

One would assume that the person paying is Nale long before you get to the arch fiends.

I doubt they'll be more than spirits in the afterlife. coming back as hellspawn would reduce the impact of Nale's death, I think.

hoff

2013-09-10, 10:52 PM

Zevox

2013-09-10, 11:00 PM

Because the archefiends specifically mentioned that the linear guild are their pawns (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0668.html), it's just left ambiguous if they are working for them knowingly or not. I think that Z was aware, but I'm not sure if Nale was. They said that most of them don't know it, so it's safe to assume more than one knew it (Sabine and one more), Z and Nale would be the next logical choices (well if you count Quarr then it's possible only Sabine and him are in on the plan).
You're forgetting something very important: when Sabine went to report to the IFCC about the Gates, she had to concoct an excuse for Nale (it being "that time of century"). That tells us quite plainly that Nale is not working for the IFCC. The IFCC consider the Linear Guild their pawns because they can influence them through Sabine, who is basically second-in-command, and probably had a great deal of influence over Nale when she wanted to.

Which shouldn't be surprising. With Nale's ego, do you really think he'd willingly work for a group of Archfiends? That's not a bunch he could readily betray, even compared to his father.

Now, as far as the main topic, I'd say Nale is a maybe. Sabine cares about him, after all, and the IFCC are Archfiends. If she can convince them it's worth their time, they ought to be able to get ahold of his soul, and turning him into a fiend shouldn't be outside of their power either. Zz'dtri, wouldn't bet on it. He's too minor of a character to bother with in such a way, and neither Nale nor Sabine likely cares too much about his fate.

Gift Jeraff

2013-09-10, 11:01 PM

I don't see both coming back. The way I see it either:

-Nale returns in some kind of fiendish form, and has a different approach to things (much like Xykon's lichdom).

-Z returns as part of a Sabine-led Linear Guild, which is not so much the LG anymore as it is the IFCC's Prime Material Plane branch. Maybe she'll even get promoted to "Planar Manager" and Qarr to "Assistant to the Planar Manager."

-neither return.

Ceaon

2013-09-11, 04:08 AM

I assume the person who is paying he and Nale are the Archefiends.

I think this assumption is wrong.

They said that most of them don't know it, so it's safe to assume more than one knew it (...)

I think this assumption is wrong too.

In other words: Nale paid Z, only Sabine knew of the IFCC (later Qarr as well).

In other other words: Although Nale and Z could come back, what meta-story purpose would killing them have served then?

AKA_Bait

2013-09-11, 08:40 AM

In other other words: Although Nale and Z could come back, what meta-story purpose would killing them have served then?

To show just how bad Tarquin and Vampire Durkon are maybe?

The Pilgrim

2013-09-11, 10:04 AM

Because the archefiends specifically mentioned that the linear guild are their pawns (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0668.html)

The archfiends also specifically mentioned that the linear guild are a bunch of total morons.

The Oni

2013-09-11, 02:22 PM

The Linear Guild are evil adventurers led by an egomaniac, which means that they are particularly suited for the IFCC's purposes: destructive, unnecessary conflict.

However, this can be said of basically ANY evil adventuring party, most neutral adventuring parties and for that matter many GOOD adventuring parties; so it's not as if they're even difficult to replace. Expect an appearance from the Unidimensional Squadron early in the next book.

NihhusHuotAliro

2013-09-11, 02:52 PM

Perhaps Z also works for Lee, Cedrik, and Nero?

They have an interest in powerful spellcasters and they already have Sabine working for them; so why not also have V's evil counterpart?

hoff

2013-09-11, 05:44 PM

Perhaps Z also works for Lee, Cedrik, and Nero?

They have an interest in powerful spellcasters and they already have Sabine working for them; so why not also have V's evil counterpart?

Yeah I got to say that I still think that Z works for the IFCC directly. Otherwise he is just as meaningful to the plot as all the kobolds the order killed or the half-elf. Only something to give V and Belkar something to do when the plot development happens to the other characters

TRH

2013-09-11, 05:48 PM

Yeah I got to say that I still think that Z works for the IFCC directly. Otherwise he is just as meaningful to the plot as all the kobolds the order killed or the half-elf. Only something to give V and Belkar something to do when the plot development happens to the other characters

And what, exactly, is the matter with that proposition?

Matt620

2013-09-11, 05:51 PM

Now, as far as the main topic, I'd say Nale is a maybe. Sabine cares about him, after all, and the IFCC are Archfiends. If she can convince them it's worth their time, they ought to be able to get ahold of his soul, and turning him into a fiend shouldn't be outside of their power either. Zz'dtri, wouldn't bet on it. He's too minor of a character to bother with in such a way, and neither Nale nor Sabine likely cares too much about his fate.

I'd disagree with you there about Zz'dtri. Clearly, he, Nale, and Sabine have worked together for a long time, and in the strip where he dies, Nale tries his best to stop Durkon from killing him. It fails, but Nale wouldn't put forth the effort if he didn't care.

Further, the two also teamed up to kill Malack, despite the fact that he was no threat to Zz'dtri (Malack only wanted Nale dead, he didn't care about Zz'dtri). Considering how dangerous Malack (and Tarquin) are, you don't do that for just anyone.

Lastly, recall the strip where Tarquin joins the Linear Guild. Sabine is overjoyed to have Zz'dtri back.

Gift Jeraff

2013-09-11, 05:52 PM

He found the canyon where Girard's Gate was. That's pretty important to the plot.

Lamech

2013-09-11, 06:11 PM

-Nale returns in some kind of fiendish form, and has a different approach to things (much like Xykon's lichdom).

Pretty sure big T is having Nale resurrected. T stabs Nale, keeps bloody dagger. Psion disintegrates Nale's body. We get reminded that they only need a drop of blood to bring back Nale.

NerdyKris

2013-09-11, 06:18 PM

The problem with bringing Nale back that way is, what's the point, exactly? What possible plot purpose does it serve beyond dragging out the Tarquin/Nale/Elan conflict?

This story isn't going to run forever. Things have to start wrapping up. It would make no sense to end the Nale plotline now and then turn around and go "Nope, MORE RECURRING MINOR VILLIAN!" when they're heading for the final confrontation. Tarquin might be a threat going forward, but I seriously doubt that keeping Nale alive in secret is going to do anything but clutter up the plot and destroy the impact of his death.

martianmister

2013-09-11, 06:21 PM

Pretty sure big T is having Nale resurrected. T stabs Nale, keeps bloody dagger. Psion disintegrates Nale's body. We get reminded that they only need a drop of blood to bring back Nale.

Why would he do that?

Ridureyu

2013-09-11, 06:36 PM

Only if they make a deal with Malebolgia.

NihhusHuotAliro

2013-09-11, 06:47 PM

sr123

2013-09-12, 01:16 AM

It would make no sense to end the Nale plotline now and then turn around and go "Nope, MORE RECURRING MINOR VILLIAN!" when they're heading for the final confrontation.

I agree wholeheartedly, except that so many stories have the minor villain come back to horn in on the main plot, and become the last conflict in the falling action after said plot is resolved.

Examples offhand are Dukat from DS9, Sylar from Heroes, ... there's a bunch more if someone helps me out. Personally, I hate that trope -- it always seems forced, it drags, and I get sick of the character.

Nale is dead and needs to stay that way, yet I know he'll still be in the story, even if merely as a soul in hell. At the risk of sounding like Tarquin, however, just... don't hog screen time.

Ramien

2013-09-12, 01:36 AM

As I said, I think that Z works for the Fiends; and I don't see why they would let one of their workers (who is a close personal friend with one of their best workers, Sabine) just be eliminated from the scene like that. I think it would make a lot of sense for them to turn Z into a demon/daemon/devil; and thematically, it would be a good counterpoint to their evil deal with V.

See, now Z gets a big ol' power-up and a new look.

Nale's just a mortal, short lived (he only lives for a few decades) while Z can live for centuries and is more powerful than Nale.

Thematically, Nale's run his race and served his purpose in the story. It's his ending. But Z has never really gotten much of a character or story arc.

Except that, if Ssabine is one of their 'best workers,' that move would just serve to anger her more. Not so much because of Z returning, but because of Nale being forgotten by her superiors.

Nale's part in the story isn't done yet - not necessarily because he's coming back in any capacity himself, but because Sabine's character arc is about how she deals with the loss of her love and what she's willing to do because of it.

Ridureyu

2013-09-12, 04:32 AM

I wonder what kinds of necroplasm powers Nale would end up with...

And what would Stick Figure Violator look like?

Ikialev

2013-09-12, 05:03 AM

Yes they can, but they won't, because this is not a d&d comic anymore and considering things that can only hurt the narrative is pointless.

Domino Quartz

2013-09-12, 07:15 AM

Yes they can, but they won't, because this is not a d&d comic anymore and considering things that can only hurt the narrative is pointless.

Who says this isn't a D&D comic any more? Rich has said that he wishes he could separate it from its roots as a D&D-gag-a-day roots so as not to feel bound by the rules of D&D, but it actually still follows the D&D rules about as much as the average work of fiction set in the real world follows the laws of physics (that is to say, not strictly, but still most of the time, or a modified version of them anyway). Also, speculation, while it may be pointless, is fun for some people.

Arcanist

2013-09-13, 12:09 AM

Only if they make a deal with Malebolgia.

Do they still print Spawn comics? Because I've never seen any... :smallconfused:

Zach J.

2013-09-13, 02:28 AM

Do they still print Spawn comics? Because I've never seen any... :smallconfused:

They do. They even retired Al Simmons and brought in a new guy to take his place.