Buffyverse Syndrome?

[Dudukain]

Now, I love this comic. Also I have no objection to what I like to call "Buffy Syndrome". It's just an interesting point. Buffy Syndrome is when all main characters, over time in a series, become totally kickass.

For example, Roy hit this level when he crushed Xykon. Belkar when he almost made Miko fall, and Elan, just in this comic, by brutally kicking Nale's ass with absolutely no difficulty. There was also Umm..fudge, can't remember the dwarf's name, in the fight with Xykon smushing a bunch of goblins, and then there's Haley's ghostly guidances...

Now, in buffy the vampire slayer. Buffy started out being the only uber-character. As of the fourth season, Xander had fought several demons and come close to winning with his bare hands, Willow became a witch, Giles can beat the hell out of damn near anything, Oz is a werewolf, Anya's a former demon, Spike's a vampire demon slayer, and Riley's a super chemical-augmented ninja demon slayer with a electricity gun.


I'm just saying, the OoTS characters, some of them (Elan) who were originally just comic relief, are now kicking ass with the best of them.

[Setra]

What about :vaarsuvius: ? Did s/he just start out this way? I wouldn't disagree to that, methinks.

[Askenada]

It's called character development. As the characters experience more, they grow and change and become more competent.

[Jefepato]

The OotSers have been of decently high level since day 1. It would be absurd if they weren't all kickass.

It's just that Elan is now kickass in a way that he's intelligent enough to make use of.

[blackout]

What about :vaarsuvius: ? Did s/he just start out this way? I wouldn't disagree to that, methinks.

Remember Evan's Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion?

[AdInfinitum]

Because, when you're games reached the epic levels, of course only the fighter and the aasimar should still be kick-ass....

[Calin]

Yeah, I'm not getting any kind of Buffy-vibe, man. It's just the tpyical progression of a D&D game. I'm sure most of us remember when the formerly cowardly 1d4 hp mage suddenly steps up and obliterates an entire encounter in one round. You typcially don't run around with a prestige class and +3 keen rapiers unless you can poke a few holes in someone who seemed to lose his initiative roll and was armed only with a kitchen knife. Don't worry, there's always something else out there big and bad enough to poke holes in the good guys too.

[Ikkitosen]

...Riley's a super chemical-augmented ninja demon slayer with a electricity gun...

This made me LOL :smallbiggrin:

[Ulicus]

Dude, Elan was always totally kickass.

[RandomNPC]

whats so good about bluf bluf bluf, bluf the stupid ogre? didn't that not acomplish its goal? this is definately more of a character building thing than a level buiding thing. it just happened to include a level.

[Cybren]

What about :vaarsuvius: ? Did s/he just start out this way? I wouldn't disagree to that, methinks.
Given that V is a high level wizard.
Yeah.

[Mr._Wilson]

Actually, from a pure RPG stat viewing of the combat encounter between Elan and Nale, I would have expected Elan to crush Nale.

Nale is a multiclassed F/S/Rog, so he's not going to do well in a straight on fight anyways, nevermind the fact Elan significantly had him out-equipped in the scene (+3 Keen rapier vs. dagger). Couple that with Elan's new PrC that awards his at least +4 Cha bonus to damage, and we're looking at 1d4+Nale's strength per hit, x2 on 19-20 vs. 1d6+7 (at least), x2 on 15-20.

So, from a pure ruleslawyer point of view, Elan had a significant advantage and thus, should have won the fight rather easily.

OTOH, I try not to let my ruleslawyer detract from the pure awesomeness that was 393.

[TreesOfDeath]

I figure thats what happened the first time Elan and Nale fought

[GSFB]

:elan: is more kickass now, sure. But that just means his baffoonery will simultaneously achieve a whole new level of whackyness in order to keep up.

It's only a matter of time, for instance, before...

...before we see :elan: stabbing his foes with his +3 keen rapier in one hand, while throwing his voice to make it appear as though witty catch phrases are eminating from the "mouth" of Banjo in his other hand!"

[krossbow]

*elan arguing with puppet on hand*

"what banjo? You want me to kill everyone? But I could never do that! No banjo, I don't want to be excommunicated, but they're my friends!"

*party edges slowly away from elan*

[Snake-Aes]

No one in the OOTS is actually a buffyed kickass, they just had their moments... It's not like they'll all fight like that forever

[LurkerBeneath]

Yeah, I'm not getting any kind of Buffy-vibe, man.

OtOoPCs, p.57, panel 8.
-LB

[Senko]

As I recall V's cast disintegrate (7th level spell) twice in as many rounds and had wish scribed into his/her/its spellbook so he/she/it is at least mid teens possibly 20+. I figure its fairly safe to assume they're all around the same level (typically DnD parties tend to be roughly similar level) so the party would be able to take on most things.

As for the Elan/Nale fight If I remember right Elan took Nale easily then ran into trouble when it became two on one while he was listening to Haley and Nale got healed.

Anyway I don't think that statements entirely accurate Xander didn't do a whole lot in the last season or Giles really. But that aside there are in my experience two broad styles of hero the dynamic and the static. The dynamic ones continually increase in skills/abilities/power as they face greater challenges (the rate of progressing varies some increase slowly while others increase rapidly and a few increase in spurts). The OOTS are dynamic heroes. Static heroes on the other hand remain at pretty much the same level facing various opponents of similar skills on an ongoing basis most police shoes e.g. your under arrest or burn up excess (If you've heard of them) are like that since the characters are normal people who can only progress so far.

[Snake-Aes]

V can't cast Wish at all, I doubt (s)he can. It's just written there.

[chibibar]

I just think it is a typical D&D setting. You go on adventures, gain experience points, gain loots, level up... gain new skills, becoming more powerful and fight more powerful stuff.

They are certainly not in god mode or anything or totally undefeatable :)

[Amon Star]

OtOoPCs, p.57, panel 8.
-LB

LOL! Well spotted. :smallgrin:


As I recall V's cast disintegrate (7th level spell) twice in as many rounds and had wish scribed into his/her/its spellbook so he/she/it is at least mid teens possibly 20+. I figure its fairly safe to assume they're all around the same level (typically DnD parties tend to be roughly similar level) so the party would be able to take on most things.

Disintegrate is only a 6th lvl spell for Wizards. That means :vaarsuvius: is probably 12th.

[War]

I think there's a bit of what you're talking about, but it's not actually that simple. Buffy was originally about... uh, Buffy, being an immature hero forced to carry the weight of the world all by herself, and all that. As the other characters became more useful, it changed the entire focus of the show (but was perhaps necessary, given how long that thing ran; it's hard to write that much about one person saving everybody over and over). Also, the general uberization was only one aspect of a broader change in the cast. Willow started out as a shy, socially unacceptable nerd, and ended up as glib and well-dressed as everyone else, in addition to having magic powers.

By contrast, OotS's characters competing for the spotlight is perfectly fine, as it's always been about the whole party. After all, a D&D campaign never has a main character because all the players want to be it. Likewise, they're really supposed to all be ass-kickers, as that's pretty much the point of the game. Most of the party is incompetent much of the time because it's funny, but they are still members of that terrifying superhuman caste that is adventurers. The potential's always been there, they just don't live up to it very often.

So I think it's possible for things like this big badass showdown to occur every now and then, as long as they don't dominate the strip. Anyway, surely we've seen by now that, despite a little extra combat competence in the clutch (and the statistical ability to look cool doing it), Elan is still pretty much an idiot. And that's something we can all enjoy!

[chibibar]

What I love about these strip is that, Yes in a D&D universes (or any gaming universe) it is VERY possible to "munchkin" a character to be uber and then super uber when you reach max level. It is very typical in many gaming and MMO. BUT OoTS group DOES have that capabilities but also limit themselves due to character flaws and personalities.

That is what make OoTS great IMO.

[GSFB]

Said it before, and I'm saying it again. V has gone all "evil Willow" on us.

Now someone had better start telling V the yellow crayon story soon, or we are all going to die...

[Pyron]

I know someone who can do that.


:vaarsuvius:: You can't stop this.

:xykon:: Yeah, I get that. It's just, where else am I gonna go? You've been my best friend my whole unlife. World gonna end ... where else would I want to be?

:vaarsuvius:: Is this the master plan? You're going to stop me by telling me you love me?

:xykon:: Well, I was going to walk you off a cliff and hand you a +5 anvil, but ... it seemed kinda cartoony.

:vaarsuvius:: Still making jokes.

:xykon:: I'm not joking. I know you're in pain. I can't imagine the pain you're in. And I know you're about to do something apocalyptically evil and stupid, and hey. I still want to hang. You're V.

:vaarsuvius:: Don't call me that.

:xykon:: First day of kindergarten. You cried because you broke the yellow crayon, and you were too afraid to tell anyone. You've come pretty far, ending the world, not a terrific notion. But the thing is? Yeah. I love you. I loved crayon-breaky V and I love ... scary veiny V. So if I'm going out, it's here. If you wanna kill the world? Well, then start with me. I've earned that.

:vaarsuvius:: You think I won't?

:xykon:: It doesn't matter. I'll still love you.

:vaarsuvius:: ... wait a minute. This whole conversation isn't making any s...

:xykon:: Finger of Death!

[V fails his fortitude save and dies]

:xykon:: Serves you right for stealing my villainous thunder!

[CyberRebirth]

I know someone who can do that.


:vaarsuvius:: You can't stop this.

:xykon:: Yeah, I get that. It's just, where else am I gonna go? You've been my best friend my whole unlife. World gonna end ... where else would I want to be?

:vaarsuvius:: Is this the master plan? You're going to stop me by telling me you love me?

:xykon:: Well, I was going to walk you off a cliff and hand you a +5 anvil, but ... it seemed kinda cartoony.

:vaarsuvius:: Still making jokes.

:xykon:: I'm not joking. I know you're in pain. I can't imagine the pain you're in. And I know you're about to do something apocalyptically evil and stupid, and hey. I still want to hang. You're V.

:vaarsuvius:: Don't call me that.

:xykon:: First day of kindergarten. You cried because you broke the yellow crayon, and you were too afraid to tell anyone. You've come pretty far, ending the world, not a terrific notion. But the thing is? Yeah. I love you. I loved crayon-breaky V and I love ... scary veiny V. So if I'm going out, it's here. If you wanna kill the world? Well, then start with me. I've earned that.

:vaarsuvius:: You think I won't?

:xykon:: It doesn't matter. I'll still love you.

:vaarsuvius:: ... wait a minute. This whole conversation isn't making any s...

:xykon:: Finger of Death!

[V fails his fortitude save and dies]

:xykon:: Serves you right for stealing my villainous thunder!


I love it.

[Vemynal]

I really liked evil willow^^

and i really like evil V^^

...and my 3 heroes are the Joker...Rorschach...and Richard from LFG...

brb, I need to visit a psychiatrist

[MickJay]

Well, Richard is adorable... :smallbiggrin:

[magic9mushroom]

Why does everyone always put things in terms of cheap and nasty pop culture references that weren't even mostly original?

Urge to destroy world rising.

[NerfTW]

Why does everyone always put things in terms of cheap and nasty pop culture references that weren't even mostly original?

Urge to destroy world rising.

Because that scene was one step above shouting "CARE BEAR STARE!!" on the stupid ways to stop a crazy witch scale.

[V'icternus]

I wonder where "throw a bucket of water on her" comes in that list...
Because last time I checked, most people's bodies are mostly water, so adding more isn't likely to melt, burn, flay, or in any other way harm a witch. Unless it's soapy and it gets in their eyes. Ouch.

Still, Evil Willow vs. Evil V'd be a thing to see...

From a very long way away, of course.

[Nymyrra]

I really liked evil willow^^

and i really like evil V^^

...and my 3 heroes are the Joker...Rorschach...and Richard from LFG...

brb, I need to visit a psychiatrist

You're not alone. I read the Dragonlance books solely for Raistlin Majere.

Some world, eh?

:smallsmile:

[Pyron]

Why does everyone always put things in terms of cheap and nasty pop culture references that weren't even mostly original?

Urge to destroy world rising.

Why are you expressing you annoyance in terms of another cheap and nasty pop culture reference? :smallsmile:

[NerfTW]

I wonder where "throw a bucket of water on her" comes in that list...
Because last time I checked, most people's bodies are mostly water, so adding more isn't likely to melt, burn, flay, or in any other way harm a witch. Unless it's soapy and it gets in their eyes. Ouch.


Well, first off, it's Oz, where scarecrows can survive without organs. The book states that the wickedness in the Witch had dried her up long ago. When Toto bites her, she doesn't even bleed. So throwing water on her caused her to fall apart, in much the same way water destroys a sand castle.

[archon_huskie]

But going by the musical WIcked, which is different that the book Wicked. It was all an act so that Elphaba and the Scarecrow could run away together.

[rgrekejin]

Honestly, other than that they're both magic users who turned evil, and (turned/are likely to turn) back at some point, I don't really see the similarities. I think there are probably better caster-turns-evil moments you could compare it to, if you really needed to compare it to something.

[V'icternus]

Well, first off, it's Oz, where scarecrows can survive without organs. The book states that the wickedness in the Witch had dried her up long ago. When Toto bites her, she doesn't even bleed. So throwing water on her caused her to fall apart, in much the same way water destroys a sand castle.

Next time I see a dog that small biting someone and causing them to bleed, I'll tell you. But honestly, water? She flies around on a broomstick! So, what, if she hits a cloud, she melts? What if it rains? Does she have to stay indoors?
What if someone spits on her? Is it like acid or something?

In fact, what about Toto's slober from when he bit her? Or even touching other humans, as their bodies are mostly made up of water?

I think it's more likely that that particular bucket was filled with some kind of magic acid that the Witch made, and that's what melted her, because water? Honestly, a child could do better than that...

Like, say "Instead of running away from the Witch with the surprisingly inneffective powers, Dorothy turns and sucker punches her, so she falls of the castle and dies". It still makes more sense than "Ahh! Water! I'm melting! Why did a substance that makes up over 70% of the planet have to touch me! I'm melting, melting! Oh, what a world!"

[Laughing Dragon]

I know that this shows how far out of the loop I am, but I can't help it.


I really liked evil willow

and i really like evil V

...and my 3 heroes are the Joker...Rorschach...and Richard from LFG...

I know who the Joker is (Heath Ledger did an awesome job) ... and I know who Rorschach is (classic example of a Toxic Paladin) ... but who is this "Richard from LFG" and who is this "Evil Willow?"

[V'icternus]

I can answer one of those. Evil Willow is Willow when she turned evil.

Willow is a character on "Buffy the Vampire Slayer", who starts off as a nerd but after a few seasons, becomes a witch. And, on a personal level, a lesbian. Her girlfriend gets shot, and she gets all "veiny", as her friends describe it. She tries to destroy the world, but her friend Xander (short for Alexander) stops her with a big sappy speech involving a yellow crayon and a toy fire truck and a house burning down (Not in that order)

And that's the abridged history of Evil Willow.

[evileeyore]

Blah, blah, blah, about Wizard of Oz, I don't get it!

I paraphrased you.


You missed the part where The Wizard of Oz was a fairy tale didn't you? In fairy tales the rules of reality don't necessarily work as they do in the really real world.

As NerfTW mentioned, it's a place where a scarecrow can live without needing anything more than straw... indeed he gets torn to shreds. All it took to fix him right back up was some thread and to be restuffed with his straw.

So the idea that a Witch could become a dried up old hag becaase her wickedness drove away all her vital fluids, leaving her naught but ash and hatred, it fits the scope of the rules the world operates in.

[Laughing Dragon]

Thank You V'icternus. I stopped watching "Buffy" shortly before that story arc (not sure why).

So, that leaves only the questions of 1) Who is Richard? and 2) What (or Who) is the LFG?

Thanks in advance to whoever answers these. Sorry to be so uninformed for a nerd.

[V'icternus]

Yeah, I know that. Still, water... it's one of the least effective ways of killing powerful magical evil beings that I've ever heard of.

Besides, maybe it's the fact that it's such a ridiculous fairy tale that I'm talking about? None of the main characters make any real sense.

Doesn't make it any worse of a movie, but I'm just saying, if you're going up against a witch, don't try water. Try, say... something that might actually have a chance of success. Like a sword to the gut, or a fireball to the face, or even a Smite Evil.

It's not like movies in which ridiculous things happen are bad. There's a certain chocolate factory that is only special because of the strangeness.

[rgrekejin]

LFG stands for Looking for Group. It's a webcomic about a party of adventurers. Richard is their unapologeticlly gleefully evil and malevolent undead warlock. He is also hilarious, and, on occasion, adorable.

[evileeyore]

Doesn't make it any worse of a movie, but I'm just saying, if you're going up against a witch, don't try water. Try, say... something that might actually have a chance of success. Like a sword to the gut, or a fireball to the face, or even a Smite Evil.

However, it is exactly the way olde style fairy tales worked. You should read up on the subject, read the old Fairy tales, the Brothers Grimm, The colored Fairy Books (Red Fairy Book, Blue Fairy Book, Green, etc...).


Also, in Frank Baum's original book (Wizard of Oz) one of the reasons the Wicked Witch of the West was such a terror is she was unharmable. Not by sword or spell, tooth or claw, nothing could bring lasting wounds to her, but like all good fairy tale villians she had a fatal flaw... which turned out to be water. Also in the book she was killed less by accident than in the movie (Dorothy had figured out she was afraid of water, whereas in the movie the Witch's dousing was purely accidental).

[V'icternus]

Now see, that I'd beleive. The movie just made it so...

Well, I'm not sure if there's an actual word in English for how it was, so I'm just gonna say "weird", as it's kinda close...

[whitemane]

Honestly, other than that they're both magic users who turned evil, and (turned/are likely to turn) back at some point, I don't really see the similarities. I think there are probably better caster-turns-evil moments you could compare it to, if you really needed to compare it to something.

Actually, I think V is much closer to Evil Willow than you think. I shudder to think what will happen to Vs fragile psyche if Parent tells V "You made a deal with infernal beings? What were you thinking!?!?"

A little nudging from Vs Soul-Splice-Buddies is all it would take for V to "accidentally" turn Parent into component atoms...

[V'icternus]

"Parent" seriously needs a name of some sort...

But, more to the point, at least Parent isn't dead.
...Uh, yet...

[NerfTW]

First off, it's not a fairy tale, it's a book. And a series of books at that.

Yes, the movie doesn't explain it, but in the book, she holds Dorothy captive for weeks, and Dorothy notices her fear of water. The only time she leaves her out of her sight is when bathing. Toto's saliva would only have burned her slightly, not killed her. She dies because an entire bucket is thrown on her.

Dorothy at one point is cleaning the floor, and in a fit of "Oh heck, see if it works", she throws the water on the witch and kills her.

edit- NINJA-ED!

[V'icternus]

Yeah, see, that makes way more sense.

And maybe it's just that it's 4:22 AM right now and I really, really need sleep, but I feel like agreeing to things right now. So I agree to... you know... whatever.

...Gonna go to sleep now...

[JJ48]

I wonder where "throw a bucket of water on her" comes in that list...
Because last time I checked, most people's bodies are mostly water, so adding more isn't likely to melt, burn, flay, or in any other way harm a witch. Unless it's soapy and it gets in their eyes. Ouch.

Still, Evil Willow vs. Evil V'd be a thing to see...

From a very long way away, of course.

What if the person is made of something water-soluble? Maybe the witch is actually made out of pure sugar, or something. Or maybe, for more violent reactions, the person in question is made primarily out of Alkali metal?

Speaking of which, I wonder if Redcloak will ever summon some potassium elementals? Someone decides that as metals, maybe they'll rust if they can just throw some water on them, and we all get to watch the combustible goodness! :smallbiggrin:

[Half-Orc Rage]

I had also thought of the V/Willow comparison. Except Willow was good to begin with.

[Red XIV]

I had also thought of the V/Willow comparison. Except Willow was good to begin with.
And had a clearly identifiable gender.

[Mewtarthio]

Sorry, I see no similarities whatsoever. Willow was motivated purely by revenge. It was already too late to save Tara; heck, the freaking God of Death personally came down and declared that she was dead forever and would never be resurrected ever (and this is a world in which resurrection is a Very Bad Idea even when it would be possible). V is motivated primarily out of concern for her family; true, she had an alternate plan available, but she rejected it out of a combination of pride and an unwillingness to go through such discomfort and inconvenience (not to mention risking her family's temporary deaths) when a much better solution was at hand. Even the Familicide spell gets some justification; yes, it would be overkill for her stated purpose and is definately revenge-driven, but V at least has a flimsy, evil excuse.

[magic9mushroom]

Actually, I think V is much closer to Evil Willow than you think. I shudder to think what will happen to Vs fragile psyche if Parent tells V "You made a deal with infernal beings? What were you thinking!?!?"

A little nudging from Vs Soul-Splice-Buddies is all it would take for V to "accidentally" turn Parent into component atoms...

The point is that there's nothing specifically similar between the two.

Unlike the obvious homage to Raistlin.

@Pyron: Because I'm referring to myself, and because it's true rather than me trying to fit something into the mould of something else when it doesn't fit

[Selene]

I <3 all versions of Willow. V, not so much.


Why does everyone always put things in terms of cheap and nasty pop culture references that weren't even mostly original?

Urge to destroy world rising.

Just out of curiosity, if this subject matter is so upsetting to you, why are you even reading a thread called V = Evil Willow? :smallconfused:


Thank You V'icternus. I stopped watching "Buffy" shortly before that story arc (not sure why).

OMG, the other day somebody said he's never seen Aliens, and now you're telling me you stopped watching Buffy?? *faints*


So, that leaves only the questions of 1) Who is Richard? and 2) What (or Who) is the LFG?

Thanks in advance to whoever answers these. Sorry to be so uninformed for a nerd.

I had no clue about Richard/LFG either. I'm glad you asked the question. Thanks. :smallsmile:

[hamishspence]

I would have compared V to Attack of the Clones Anakin, but "hero goes on Roaring Rampage of Revenge when family are injured" is a common trope.

Since, unlike Anakin or Willow, V's loved ones were not killed, just hurt, slaughtering a whole family looks even less justifiable than Anakin's actions did, unless you assume "protecting them" + "protecting strangers from the evil acts of dragons" were sole motivations. And even then, it looks dispropotionate.

[V'icternus]

And of course, we're fairly sure they weren't the sole motivations. V didn't give a single thought to other people.

[Cúchulainn]

Giles coming back to kick Willow's ass is the only memorable part of those seasons. In fact Giles was the only likeable character, even when he wasn't on the same continent as the rest of them. Angel (Angelus) was also badass and 1 of his shows is worth 2 whole seasons of Buffy.

Comparing V to Willow greatly angers me.

Also:


And had a clearly identifiable gender.

Have you even seen the first episodes/seasons of Buffy? :smallbiggrin: Coupled with the fact she turns out to be a lesbian, I'm not so sure here!

[magic9mushroom]

Just out of curiosity, if this subject matter is so upsetting to you, why are you even reading a thread called V = Evil Willow? :smallconfused:

Dunno, I think I was just raging at the time and seeing the thread title made me see red.

[Tharianor]

What if

Belkar has a total kick-ass moment killing, let's say humm... a gazillion hobgoblins and for Vaarsuvius kills a lot of black dragons with a single spell? :smalltongue:

Edit:I know, I know but these are example of others kick-ass moments! I'm waiting for Durkon and Haley

Edit 2: Edited for fun:smallredface:

[Roderick_BR]

Seeing as this webcomic is based on RPGs, it's only natural that sooner or later every character would start to become powerful.
And in V's case, it may be temporary, but he was already stronger than the rest of the group, since he took down the young adult black dragon all by himself.

[evileeyore]

I'm just saying, the OoTS characters, some of them (Elan) who were originally just comic relief, are now kicking ass with the best of them.

That is what happens when you have a level based game.

[brilliantlight]

Actually, from a pure RPG stat viewing of the combat encounter between Elan and Nale, I would have expected Elan to crush Nale.

Nale is a multiclassed F/S/Rog, so he's not going to do well in a straight on fight anyways, nevermind the fact Elan significantly had him out-equipped in the scene (+3 Keen rapier vs. dagger). Couple that with Elan's new PrC that awards his at least +4 Cha bonus to damage, and we're looking at 1d4+Nale's strength per hit, x2 on 19-20 vs. 1d6+7 (at least), x2 on 15-20.

So, from a pure ruleslawyer point of view, Elan had a significant advantage and thus, should have won the fight rather easily.

OTOH, I try not to let my ruleslawyer detract from the pure awesomeness that was 393.

Agreed, a bard should be able to crush a fighter/thief/sorcerer of the same combined level, assuming the levels are equally spread.

[V'icternus]

That is what happens when you have a level based game.

Exactly. They're living in a world where people magically become stronger, smarter and more powerful as they go on. We can't be surprised when they do. If they were the same level throughout the whole story, it'd get boring (and Belkar would never have multiclassed to Barbarian). The whole "The world has level systems" thing is just how OotS-world is. Everyone in the comic knows it.

So of course long-time adventurers are going to be more powerful than before. Even useless (or use-impaired) people gain some form of advantage over lesser foes. Besides, the plot needs them to get more powerful in order to move forward. Otherwise... well, they'd totally fail.

[Pronounceable]

So Haerta chose to struck here in the forums... Awesome, kinda.

[Tharianor]

My post was ironic!:smallsmile:
I was looking at old threads and i wanted to add this two to the lists!

[Selene]

Giles coming back to kick Willow's ass is the only memorable part of those seasons. In fact Giles was the only likeable character, even when he wasn't on the same continent as the rest of them.

Because he ran away from home? I love Giles, but I spent the last two seasons pissed off at him for ditching us, and at the writers for not giving him a better reason to be AWOL.


Angel (Angelus) was also badass and 1 of his shows is worth 2 whole seasons of Buffy.

Obviously, you missed season 4 of Angel. One word. Connor. :smallyuk: Show got so bad they had to bring Spike back from the dead to fix it. Which I do appreciate, mind you.


In the Buffyverse and the OotSverse, you either get better or get dead. Of course they get better.

edit to fix quote tags

[rxmd]

Why does everyone always put things in terms of cheap and nasty pop culture references that weren't even mostly original?
Probably (a) because it's a comic about D&D, which is a nice and enjoyable role playing system, but has become an item of pop culture itself that hasn't been too original for the better part of twenty years, and (b) because said comic makes pop culture references all the time itself.

[Optimystik]

Why does everyone always put things in terms of cheap and nasty pop culture references that weren't even mostly original?

Urge to destroy world rising.

This. If you have no problem with the characters getting more powerful, you really should have chosen a better name. "Buffyverse" carries lots of negative connotations (such as lack of originality, television storyline shallowness and immaturity), and so does "Syndrome," which implies that the current storyline is some kind of disease afflicting the comic.

It's rather like calling a child "slightly retarded" and then wondering why his parents might be upset by that.

[Selene]

This. If you have no problem with the characters getting more powerful, you really should have chosen a better name. "Buffyverse" carries lots of negative connotations (such as lack of originality, television storyline shallowness and immaturity), and so does "Syndrome," which implies that the current storyline is some kind of disease afflicting the comic.

It's rather like calling a child "slightly retarded" and then wondering why his parents might be upset by that.

I really don't get your analogy there. Are you saying "judge a book by its cover" or something?

As for Buffy itself, have you ever watched it? Because for real, I've noticed that the vast majority of people who hold that opinion have never even seen five minutes of the show. I thought it was stupid, too, until I actually watched it. Lesson learned. The show is neither shallow, nor immature. The idea of giving her an airhead name is supposed to be funny and ironic. Sadly that was lost on most of us.

[Cúchulainn]

Because he ran away from home? I love Giles, but I spent the last two seasons pissed off at him for ditching us, and at the writers for not giving him a better reason to be AWOL.

Sure him 'suddenly' leaving annoyed me because, like I said, he was my favourite character. But all was forgiven when he came back like he did. Why he left is a little so-so but I can understand it.


Obviously, you missed season 4 of Angel. One word. Connor. :smallyuk: Show got so bad they had to bring Spike back from the dead to fix it. Which I do appreciate, mind you.

One word. Wesley. As much as I hate him Connor is the whole reason Wesley turned so badass, I really, really loved the dark character he turned into. He was probably my most favourite character in the whole Buffyverse at the time.

Gunn: What happened to you man?
Wesley: I had my throat cut and all my friends abandon me.
Me: HELL YEAH.

[factotum]

Agreed, a bard should be able to crush a fighter/thief/sorcerer of the same combined level, assuming the levels are equally spread.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's exactly what Elan DID do in comic 393--he had utterly crushed Nale without taking any significant damage himself; it was only Nale's cheap tactic of pretending to bring Haley into the fight that prevented him getting totally whupped then and there.

[Selene]

@Cúchulainn: You're right. Wesley did get cooler. My favorite Wesley moment:

Wesley: A lot's happened. Not just Angelus. I've been... I've changed. I've seen a darkness in myself. I'm not sure you'd even begin to understand...
Willow: I flayed a guy alive and tried to destroy the world.
Wesley: Oh. So...
Willow: Darkness. Been there.

(copy/pasted from IMDb, because I couldn't remember the whole thing)

But the awfulness that was the whole Connor/Cordy storyline... gross. Just gross.



@factotum: I don't think you're wrong. Elan kicked some butt there. It was pretty great. :smallcool:

[magellan]

Not to mention... and i really need to mention it so i do:

Buffyverse syndrom=characters getting more powerfull?
Huh?
William "I can't even hit people" the bloody?
Rupert "I know i am back in america: I got knocked unconcious" Giles?
Anya "I miss having powers" (not quite) Harris?
Xander "Maybe you shouldnt jump into the fray like that. maybe you should be fray adjacent" Harris?
Riley "I kicked him across the room a little and now he's a little dent" ... cant recall his last name right now... also that was when he was *on* government drugs

Now Willow on the other hand is a control freak. Thats why she wants xander in the beginning because she figures he would be enough of a dupe to do what she wants. Of course she goes straight for the top magicwise, because that puts her into control of even more things! yay! (No seriously: watch Season 1-7: whenever willow gets pissed its because somebody doesn't do what she wants)

Wich leaves us with the only character who really got more powerfull: Tara. Because little shy girl managed to walk out on willow.

This is a bit like "Season 6 is too dark" ... Buffy is always dark from 1-7. Or it might be that my DVDs are somehow different than other peoples.

[magellan]

Ohoh: better example for anya:
"I am 1107 years old now give me a friggin beer!"
... from destroying people to being unable to order a beer isnt what i would call getting more powerful.

[CaptainIreland]

Yeah, I know that. Still, water... it's one of the least effective ways of killing powerful magical evil beings that I've ever heard of.

Besides, maybe it's the fact that it's such a ridiculous fairy tale that I'm talking about? None of the main characters make any real sense.

Wizard of Oz (the original book, at least) was also a heavy allegory for the Gold Standard (even the name OZ is the abbreviation for the measurement of gold, 12 ounces = 12 oz.), with every character representing something (Scarecrow was Middle America farmers, Tin Man was industrial workers, Lion was William Jennings Bryan).

The Wicked Witch is the large finance companies ruining the lives of the Scarecrow and the Tin Man. No idea if the water actually stands for something, though.

[Selene]

That just speculation. Find me a quote from Baum confirming it.

[Goldwing]

Wizard of Oz (the original book, at least) was also a heavy allegory for the Gold Standard (even the name OZ is the abbreviation for the measurement of gold, 12 ounces = 12 oz.), with every character representing something (Scarecrow was Middle America farmers, Tin Man was industrial workers, Lion was William Jennings Bryan).

The Wicked Witch is the large finance companies ruining the lives of the Scarecrow and the Tin Man. No idea if the water actually stands for something, though.

Really? you're going to bring that up?
It may interest you to know that the first person to come up with this allegory to the Populist movement (Henry Littlefield, a New York high school history teacher) himself stated that his interpretation of the novels had absolutely no basis in fact, or on anything to do with what Baum has actually stated that he believed. When Baum was asked about whether or not his books had any hidden meaning, time and time again he replied that his only purpose for the stories of Oz was to entertain children with stories like Grimm and Anderson that were anchored a bit closer to the American childs' home, and to supplement his families' income. Though Baum did address political issues in his newspaper, in other books he wrote, and in an adult version of the story adopted for the stage, there is nothing he or his family have said
or done that would seem to lend the Oz series of books any meaning other than that of a fairy tale meant to entertain children.