[3.5] Appraise

[RFLS]

This has turned into a rather heated debate with one of my players, so I'd like to ask the Playground's opinion: Does the Appraise skill allow the identification of objects? RAW, the answer seems to be a rather clear-cut "no," but the debate is over what the rules intended and over what would make sense for the skill.

My contention is that you should not be able to know absolutely nothing about animals, yet immediately identify an object as the pelt of a grey fox because you rolled well on Appraise.

[Fouredged Sword]

I don't think anyone in the group is really heated about this, I think it just has morphed into a running joke across the people playing in several of your games.

Though, I would suspect that a merchant who knows nothing of animals but knows the value of goods would recognize a fox fur and know it's value without knowing a thing about foxes or their habits in the wild.

Just as a counterpoint to your example.

I agree on the issue of gemstones in the raw on a wall, as it has come up in the game. I think it should be a matter of how crafted the item is.

[Alabenson]

I'd probably say that Appraise lets you identify objects, but only insofar as it relates to the objects value.
To use your example, if the pelts of grey foxes were particularly valuable, then a high Appraise check would let you know that the pelt you're holding was in fact a legitimate grey fox pelt. On the other hand, if there is no appreciable difference between the value of horse hides and cow hides, then Appraise would not help identify the difference.

[Ashtagon]

By RAW, all that appraise determines is the monetary value. Identifying the type of animal the fur came from should require a Survival check.

----house rules after the fold----

Appraise is one of those skills I have banished from my games.

Instead, you use a relevant Knowledge, Craft, Perform, or whatever skill. These skills can determine the monetary value and/or identify the components used in the manufacture of a crafted item.


Knowledge (art) is useful for most "fine art" objects. It is also good for appraising theatrical performances and music recitals. Note that either Knowledge (art) or Craft (gemcutting) could be used to appraise gemstones — use whichever is higher.
Knowledge (business) is useful for appraising property values, (farm)land values, and businesses (though not the unworked potential of a mine, since that is essentially invisible).
Knowledge (religion) is good for appraising religious ornaments, from tapestries through candle holders to gilded books and braziers. If the item is not obviously religious-themed, it won't help.
A relevant Perform skill is good for appraising musical instruments and accoutrements related to the specific kind of performance. It can also appraise theatrical performances and music recitals.
If you can Craft something, you can appraise it. If the object is something that would be routinely used in doing your Crafting, you can appraise it — Craft (leatherworking) is perfectly fine for appraising both leather armour and small hammers.
Ride is good for appraising anything you can ride. Handle Animal is good for appraising any animal you can train.

[Telonius]

I'd say it's certainly possible to know that there's a creature out there somewhere called a grey fox and know how to recognize what its pelt looks like, without having any other knowledge about grey foxes. "Hey, I don't hunt 'em, I just sell 'em. Don't think I've ever even seen a pelt when the fox was still attached to it."

As far as appraise goes, it's one of those things where you should apply a little common sense. Appraise would tell you how much you can sell something for; but it's kind of implicit that in order to figure out how much you can get for something, you have to have some idea of what that something is. (Or at least what you can pass it off as).

[Lightlawbliss]

appraise is like knowledge. The DM chooses what to give.

I have had DM's where you base the appraise on what you know. If you know it is fur but not what kind, then you are appraising generic fur of that quality and size.

[kaminiwa]

Well, by definition, an Appraise check returns the value. If Grey Fox pelts are 10 GP, and regular fox pelts are 1 GP, and you know this particular pelt is worth 10 GP... it's probably a Grey Fox pelt.

It seems pretty absurd to have the merchant say "This? I have no clue what it is! But it is worth exactly 10 GP", so going off real-life examples, I'd say that Appraise will identify any properties that are relevant to the price.

For instance, a regular pelt is just a regular pelt - use Knowledge (Nature) to determine exactly what sort of fox, or to realize that the fox had a limp, or some other plot clue. Appraise will just tell you that this is a common pelt, worth 1 GP, and definitely not from a Grey Fox (since *those* fetch 10 GP).

In short, think about what sort of roleplaying makes sense when the PCs are interacting with NPC merchants.