I just noticed something...was it intentional?

[The Kind Knido]

Given how Richard Garriott's Ultima games were based off of his own Dungeons and Dragons campaign(s), and considering Order of the Stick is a parody of said game and RPGs in general, I have to ask...was this connection purposeful or completely coincidental?

http://lparchive.org/Ultima-4-5-and-6/Update%2020/Ultima5box.jpg

I must know, because if this is coincidental, I've somehow missed what should be blatantly obvious and right there.

Let's see...tall, cloaked figures with glowing eyes with the same terrifying coldness of the IFCC? There's even three. This can't have been a coincidence, right? Maybe I'm really late to this realization and I wouldn't be surprised if I were, but I just had to post this. If this was meant to be a reference, I must wonder if there's any subtle clues as to the IFCC's motives in Ultima V.

[jogiff]

Tall hooded figures with glowing eyes are not unique to OotS or Ultima. There are 3 archfiends because they each represent one kind of fiend.

[Klear]

The colour of the cloak is wrong colour.

However... Is that Director Lee? (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100915195130/starwars/images/7/79/Jawa_SWSB.png)

[The Kind Knido]

Tall hooded figures with glowing eyes are not unique to OotS or Ultima. There are 3 archfiends because they each represent one kind of fiend.

Three kinds of fiends meaning three kinds of evil? It just seems too good of a connection for the IFCC to be modeled after or close to the Shadowlords. There are the three in Ultima who represent three kinds of evil, or as you said, represent three kinds of fiends.

The colour of the cloak is wrong colour.

However... Is that Director Lee?

Nope, Director in Training, and if the cloaks were the same, it's be way too close.

[Tebryn]

I imagine it's not, considering OOtS isn't a direct parody of Ultima for one. Second I think they're just hooded figures so the Giant doesn't have to worry about making them X demon/devil/loth.

[Roland Itiative]

Ominous hooded figures are quite a common way for evil people to dress (being a variation of the MitD's "cloak in darkness until the proper moment to reveal yourself", allowing one to walk around without revealing themselves or using a pink Hello Kitty parasol), it's not really enough to make a connection. As for there being three, it's both a very meaningful, "mystical" number, and the number of evil alignments and fiend races in D&D, so it was not really a choice on the Giant's part, he was just using what he had.

[Nilan8888]

I would think that the concept of "three hooded figures" goes much further back than Ultima, if we're delving into the murky depths of "metanarrative influence".

Both subconscious motifs probably point back to MacBeth's witches, which in itself points back to Greek Myth -- likely the Gorgons, or maybe even the fates.

[Tiiba]

In the picture, I think the guy dressed like Link is about to shove that glowing thing up the knight's where the sun don't shine.

[Klear]

In the picture, I think the guy dressed like Link is about to shove that glowing thing up the knight's where the sun don't shine.

Gods, you're right! And is it just me, or is he grinning maniacally while doing it?

[F.Harr]

Given how Richard Garriott's Ultima games were based off of his own Dungeons and Dragons campaign(s), and considering Order of the Stick is a parody of said game and RPGs in general, I have to ask...was this connection purposeful or completely coincidental?

http://lparchive.org/Ultima-4-5-and-6/Update%2020/Ultima5box.jpg

I must know, because if this is coincidental, I've somehow missed what should be blatantly obvious and right there.

Let's see...tall, cloaked figures with glowing eyes with the same terrifying coldness of the IFCC? There's even three. This can't have been a coincidence, right? Maybe I'm really late to this realization and I wouldn't be surprised if I were, but I just had to post this. If this was meant to be a reference, I must wonder if there's any subtle clues as to the IFCC's motives in Ultima V.

They also remind me of the Auditors of Reality from the Diskworld. But there are more than three of those, I think.

[Imgran]

In the picture, I think the guy dressed like Link is about to shove that glowing thing up the knight's where the sun don't shine.

Yeah they really didn't do a great job of "Shamino wounded and in distress" there did they?

[Manga Shoggoth]

They also remind me of the Auditors of Reality from the Diskworld. But there are more than three of those, I think.

But they do tend to work in threes...

[gorocz]

Three kinds of fiends meaning three kinds of evil? It just seems too good of a connection for the IFCC to be modeled after or close to the Shadowlords. There are the three in Ultima who represent three kinds of evil, or as you said, represent three kinds of fiends.


Three kinds of fiends meaning three kinds of evil - Devils (LE), Daemons (NE) and Demons (CE). They also represent very different things, while the Shadowlords are based on Falsehood, Hatred and Cowardice, the fiends are neither Cowardly (afawk), nor directly false (afawk) nor do they seem hateful (rather affable actually). They actually remind me more of the Evils from Diablo - Lord of Lies (Belial), Lord of Hatred (Mephisto) and Lord of Terror (Diablo), but that doesn't mean Diablo was based on Ultima V...

[The Giant]

I literally haven't seen that cover in 20 years, and I don't think I ever played it. No reference is intended.

There are three fiends because there are three evil alignments with three evil races: Lawful, Neutral, and Chaotic. If there had been four evil alignments, there would be four fiends. That's it.

[Nilan8888]

I literally haven't seen that cover in 20 years, and I don't think I ever played it.


It was actually quite an excellent game. And I'm not really a big ultima fan.

If you couldn't really give a hoot about graphics (and I often don't), I'd say give it a whirl someday.

[Excise]

Pretty sure the Fiends are actually references to: http://aliens.wikia.com/wiki/Darlok

;-)

[The Kind Knido]

I literally haven't seen that cover in 20 years, and I don't think I ever played it. No reference is intended.

There are three fiends because there are three evil alignments with three evil races: Lawful, Neutral, and Chaotic. If there had been four evil alignments, there would be four fiends. That's it.

Well, that settles it. I had thought three fiends representing three evils/three Shadowlords representing three evils was a cool connection, however unintentional it actually turned out to be.

[WindStruck]

Moral of the story: cloaked figures with face totally obscured is just a common cheap budget trick, as well as potentially being more effective leaving whatever it is under there to the imagination. :smallsmile:

[The Kind Knido]

Moral of the story: cloaked figures with face totally obscured is just a common cheap budget trick, as well as potentially being more effective leaving whatever it is under there to the imagination. :smallsmile:

That wasn't the only reason I made the connection. It was the fact that there's three, are very tall, and represent three different evils respectively as the Shadowlords do.

If I merely made the connection based on height and wardrobe, the Nazgul would've have probably been there, too.

[WindStruck]

You know, in that one scene on the hill/tower thing, there were 3, and I do think they were kinda tall and imposing. :smallbiggrin:

(especially for a hobbit)

[The Kind Knido]

I do remember them being taller than a regular human as well.

Are there three Nazgul that represent three evils, too?

[zimmerwald1915]

I do remember them being taller than a regular human as well.

Are there three Nazgul that represent three evils, too?
No. And there were five Nazgul on Weathertop, not three.

EDIT: also, I'm fairly certain that the Nazgul who were Black Numenorians in life were naturally taller than other Men by virtue of being Numenorians.

[WindStruck]

Ok, but wait! There were 9 Nazgul in total, each representing the 9 layers of Hell! But of course, there were only 2 demon princes and Lucifer himself, exactly correlating with the IFCC!

...

Ok, I'm just making stuff up now. I don't know what is accurate or not anymore. :smallredface:

[Thunderfist12]

Ok, but wait! There were 9 Nazgul in total, each representing the 9 layers of Hell!

And nine alignments. But that doesn't mean there was a Lawful Good Nazgul!:smallbiggrin:

I had to point that out.

[Ron Miel]

Hey, folks. Anyone remember the comic strip Yamara, which ran in Dragon Magazine way back when.

http://yamara.com/2005/07/21/check-on-ebay-first/


Just shows to go you.

[Klear]

Three kinds of fiends meaning three kinds of evil - Devils (LE), Daemons (NE) and Demons (CE). They also represent very different things, while the Shadowlords are based on Falsehood, Hatred and Cowardice, the fiends are neither Cowardly (afawk), nor directly false (afawk) nor do they seem hateful (rather affable actually). They actually remind me more of the Evils from Diablo - Lord of Lies (Belial), Lord of Hatred (Mephisto) and Lord of Terror (Diablo), but that doesn't mean Diablo was based on Ultima V...

Look up Rule of Three on TVTropes...

[The Kind Knido]

Hey, folks. Anyone remember the comic strip Yamara, which ran in Dragon Magazine way back when.

http://yamara.com/2005/07/21/check-on-ebay-first/


Just shows to go you.

Interesting find. I wonder what other trio of tall cloaked guys there are...

Come to think of it, there were three cloaked battlemage-type characters in Suburban Knights as well, but they weren't tall and menacing, and didn't represent anything.


Look up Rule of Three on TVTropes...

Quite common, yes, though I've rarely gone to TVTropes. Just seems like a good site to ruin stories by attributing everything to cliche.

[137beth]

It's pretty obvious that Shakespeare ripped off Ultima with his whole "three witches" gag.

[The Kind Knido]

It's pretty obvious that Shakespeare ripped off Ultima with his whole "three witches" gag.

While the Three Witches do represent three things as well, they are not unusually tall, nor do they have their faces obscured.

[Solse]

Quite common, yes, though I've rarely gone to TVTropes. Just seems like a good site to ruin stories by attributing everything to cliche.

Au contraire. Might I refer you to this page? (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/SugarWiki/TVTropesWillEnhanceYourLife)

[Klear]

Au contraire. Might I refer you to this page? (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/SugarWiki/TVTropesWillEnhanceYourLife)

Ahem (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TvTropesWillRuinYourLife).

But the ruin (for me, at least) comes from it being an extreme time-waster.

Speaking of which, it seems there is currently no trope page for "cloaked figure with glowing eyes". The closest I could find are these (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlackCloak) two (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InTheHood).

And no, that isn't too specific trope (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FatSweatySouthernerInAWhiteSuit).