PF - I have no idea what I'm doing.

[Kopikatsu]

So, I'm new to the whole tabletop gaming thing. It's something I've always wanted to do, and now I finally have a group of people to do it with.

Anyway, we needed a tank rather desperately, so I decided to drop what I was doing (Monk) and just go tank. Of course I went and picked the worst class for a new player, Synthesist Summer, but our DM is kind of new too (He's only ever co-DMed before), so it's doubly bad. I've read most of the mechanics and exceptions for Synthesist Summoners, so that bit isn't a big ol' problem.

The point of the thread is, I was wondering if my starting build is alright (or even legal). I'm not particularly interested in optimizing super hard (The only person in our group who does is the Rogue for whatever reason. She's obsessed...), I just want to make sure that I can actually serve as a tank and maybe get advice on what kind of feats/evolutions/whatever I should look to get in the future.

Anywho, stats (15 point buyin):
7 STR
7 DEX
9 CON
14 INT
17 WIS
16 CHA

Trained skills (Total scores):
Knowledge (Arcana) - 6
Craft (Alchemy) - 2
Linguistics - 6
Fly - 0
Spellcraft - 6
Use Magic Device - 7

Feats/Attributes:
Fiendish Resistance: Tieflings have cold resistance 5, electricity resistance 5, and fire resistance 5.
Skilled: Tieflings gain a +2 racial bonus on Bluff and Stealth checks.
Spell-like Ability: You do not need to sleep. You are not immune to sleep effects.
Darkvision: Tieflings can see perfectly in the dark for up to 60 feet.
Demodand-Spawn: The burly spawn of the demodand race possess bizarre cunning, but favor brawn to planning. (This is the reason for the modded starting bonuses/penalties to stats)
Other: Hermaphroditic
Horns: Other
Resilient Eidolon: Your link with your eidolon is strong enough that it can remain with you for a short time after you fall unconscious or are killed.
The rest are just the basic Summoner things, such as Link.

Armor/Shield:
Hide Shirt
Buckler

Equipment:
Summoner's Kit
Hide Shirt
Buckler
Outfit, Traveler's
Cloak, Patchwork
Large Tattoo, Back


Eidolon:
Bipedal. Undead Appearance, Improved Natural Armor evolutions.

Spells:
Guidance
Detect Magic
Read Magic
Message
Mage Armor
Grease

I should mention that we have an off-tank cavalier and I'm the only magic user in the party. So I want to be more of a utility tank, I guess? Block swords with my face, but be able to do out of combat stuff too.

[Dr. Yes]

Starting at 1st level, I guess? I should mention that a "tank" isn't really something you need in D&D, at least not in the way that you do for a lot of computer RPGs. The reason melee characters tend to build tanky is because they have to stand still and eat full attacks in order to deal damage themselves, but there's absolutely nothing preventing the big scary ogre you're wailing on from turning around and turning your Rogue's face into a casserole.

That said, synthesist Summoners are some of the scariest damage-dealers in the game, and that goes double for a low point buy. You should focus on pumping strength as high as possible through evolutions, both the straight stat-boosting one and the size increase. Your spells and equipment look okay. Be aware that armor goes on "under" the eidolon, and so does not stack.

[papr_weezl8472]

Something seems a bit off about your skills; could you break them down by where the various bonuses/penalties come from? Or really, just where your ranks are?

Otherwise it seems perfectly fine to me. Note that one of the hardest things to do as a tank in D&D is get enemies to attack you over the rest of the party. Have you got a plan for handling that?

[Squirrel_Dude]

Sythesist summoners are bad for new players, but the best at tanking. As Dr. Yes suggested, you should go for strength boosts as early as possible. I would add to that you will want a way to make free grapple or trip attempts.

You don't necessarily want to focus on those abilities, but getting a way to make them for free when you're doing damage to your enemies can go a long way to making you a better tank.

[JusticeZero]

Tanking works, but it's based more on using things like reach and Stand Still or tripping or something similar to lock down a big chunk of battlefield and restrict movement through it than on classical meatshieldery. Most party "tanks" won't be able to do it. There's still something to be said for running out into things and presenting yourself as the first target, I suppose.

[NightbringerGGZ]

Tanking works, but it's based more on using things like reach and Stand Still or tripping or something similar to lock down a big chunk of battlefield and restrict movement through it than on classical meatshieldery. Most party "tanks" won't be able to do it. There's still something to be said for running out into things and presenting yourself as the first target, I suppose.

One thing to note, having a low Con as a Synth can be a really easy way to die. If you ever drop your eidolon suit after having taken damage you have still sustained the same amount of damage but your Max HP will be significantly lower. If you've been burning through your Summoner's HP to keep the Eidolon active then you'll wind up being screwed. A 12 or even 14 Con is pretty standard for these builds.

A Synth Summoner is somewhat easier than a standard one, since you're not playing two characters but you will still have a ton of stats to keep track of. Make sure you and your GM go over your character sheets together, minor numerical errors are pretty common with this class.

Also I'd suggest that you keep things simple during the early game. Go with a typical 1 bite, 2 claws build for a few levels and pump up your Str and AC. After you're a bit more used to the game you can start thinking about the more exotic options available to a Summoner.

Finally, don't forget that you get to cast spells too! You'll have some really nice buff spells and the Pit and Wall spells can be really fun for a tank to have.

[Kopikatsu]

Starting at 1st level, I guess? I should mention that a "tank" isn't really something you need in D&D, at least not in the way that you do for a lot of computer RPGs. The reason melee characters tend to build tanky is because they have to stand still and eat full attacks in order to deal damage themselves, but there's absolutely nothing preventing the big scary ogre you're wailing on from turning around and turning your Rogue's face into a casserole.

That said, synthesist Summoners are some of the scariest damage-dealers in the game, and that goes double for a low point buy. You should focus on pumping strength as high as possible through evolutions, both the straight stat-boosting one and the size increase. Your spells and equipment look okay. Be aware that armor goes on "under" the eidolon, and so does not stack.
Yeah, I know about the armor thing. As I mentioned, I've gone over most of the special rulings and exceptions for Synths. So basically you're saying that to be a good tank, I should just run into the middle of the fight so I draw aggro from everything?

Our Cavalier wants to change into a magic class now, so I might end up being the only melee. I imagine drawing aggro shouldn't be too hard if I'm the only one on the front line.

Minor question. If I increase the size of the Eidolon, does that mean it wouldn't be able to fit into areas, or is it largely incorporeal when fused? There is no official artwork of a fused Eidolon to the best of my knowledge, so it's hard for me to say. Although probably embarrassing to admit, I've been going off the principal that a fused Eidolon functions/appears similarly to Susano'o from Naruto. It would probably be a great inconvenience to drop the suit whenever I had to enter a building or cave, considering the vast bulk of my power is concentrated there.


Something seems a bit off about your skills; could you break them down by where the various bonuses/penalties come from? Or really, just where your ranks are?

Otherwise it seems perfectly fine to me. Note that one of the hardest things to do as a tank in D&D is get enemies to attack you over the rest of the party. Have you got a plan for handling that?

I could look at it a bit more later, but I realized that even though I said those are the total scores, I'm not counting the 'fused' stats. So the skills that scale based off of dex, con, and str will actually be higher than what's listed there.


Sythesist summoners are bad for new players, but the best at tanking. As Dr. Yes suggested, you should go for strength boosts as early as possible. I would add to that you will want a way to make free grapple or trip attempts.

You don't necessarily want to focus on those abilities, but getting a way to make them for free when you're doing damage to your enemies can go a long way to making you a better tank.

How would I get free grapple attempts? Grab evolution?

Edit: If 'tanking' means controlling the battlefield, should I look into the Pull and/or Push evolutions?

[Squirrel_Dude]

How would I get free grapple attempts? Grab evolution?Correct. Though the grab evolution is better if you can get the constrict evolution. I'd recommend the trip evolution over grab if you can't get constrict.


Edit: If 'tanking' means controlling the battlefield, should I look into the Pull and/or Push evolutions?I would say pull over push, but neither one is especially awful or good.

[Kopikatsu]

Correct. Though the grab evolution is better if you can get the constrict evolution. I'd recommend the trip evolution over grab if you can't get constrict.

I would say pull over push, but neither one is especially awful or good.

I'm not super excited about trip. It just seems so...whimpy. Haha.

Would grab still not be worth taking even if I were to take Swallow Whole? (Or whatever that evolution was called).

[Squirrel_Dude]

I'm not super excited about trip. It just seems so...whimpy. Haha.Trip is nice because it knocks them prone and let you deal with other enemies, while grapple is superior lockdown for a single enemy.


Would grab still not be worth taking even if I were to take Swallow Whole? (Or whatever that evolution was called).Swallow whole is fun but I can't speak for it's effectiveness as a PC after level 8.

[Kopikatsu]

The more I think about how much micromanagement magic takes, the less I want to do it, haha. (I actually hate magic, but synth summoner seemed like the best 'tank' class. But if meatshielding isn't really a thing, then I'm not so strongly drawn to it).

As a hypothetical, say I stored this character sheet for later when I'm actually somewhat adept at the game and instead went with something easier.

I have a Gunslinger already made. At the time I made her, it seemed like we needed a tank so I swapped to Synth...but right now we have a Cavalier, Rogue, and Bard. So we're lacking in ranged DPS, which Gunslinger could serve as.

The problem is, if I switch out of Summoner, we have no real magic aside from the Bard. And the Cavalier is another first time player. So the two players who are most needed to play a mage are the least capable.

Anyone have any suggestions for that dilemma? I wanted to make a Monk originally, but I just kept being told how terrible and unviable they are (Especially at anything under 20 point buy in).

Edit: Not really relevant, but what's the closest you can get to a Succubus class? The Rogue wants to seduce men and slit their throats in bed, which seems to be the closest you can get as far as I can tell.

[Squirrel_Dude]

Edit: Not really relevant, but what's the closest you can get to a Succubus class? The Rogue wants to seduce men and slit their throats in bed, which seems to be the closest you can get as far as I can tell.Coincidentally, Bard (Sandman archetype). Or maybe sorcerer.

[JusticeZero]

What material are you restricted to? What do you not like about magic? Maybe we can pitch some ideas you have not thought of.
My campaign is basically a love letter to DSP, so I immediately default to psionics classes. Anything that can pokemon problems can tank, too. Control can substitute for community masochism as well. Shaper, Aegis, Druid, Inquisitor, Magus, there really are a lot of ways to accomplish synergy with the group you mentioned.

and yeah, the Rogue is asking about being a Bard, though I think there are Rogue builds that can be used for that.