Ways to trick alignment requirements for classes?

[CyberThread]

Without DM fiat, any ways to trick the alignment system in d&d for a do gooder to take a evil class, or an evil warlord to take good classes?

[Alleran]

If you're playing Pathfinder (or are willing to work the Mythic ruleset into 3.5e), then there is a third tier power called Beyond Morality that means you qualify for any class as if you had the most favourable alignment, while you yourself have no alignment (which also makes you immune to stuff like Blasphemy or Word of Chaos).

[vendur]

Not sure about the pathfinder feat being mentioned above, as I have no experience with the game.

What's stopping you from going full evil, attaining your class, then using atonement's temptation or redemption to get back to wherever you want to be at alignment-wise?

I'd be careful, though, as most alignment based classes will lose a lot of specific powers in most cases. Also, you never know with the Gm in question, if they will take issue with this sort of abuse.

Maybe a better question is, what is your character and what is it you want to do?

Personally, as a DM, i would never allow intentional player manipulation of alignment, though Is suspect other DMs are more lenient.

[Chronos]

Don't change yourself to fit the class; change the class to fit you. A nonevil character absolutely cannot become an Assassin; doing what an assassin does is inherently evil. But a nonevil character can become an Avenger (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070401a), which coincidentally has exactly the same set of abilities as an assassin, just with a different morality and ethos.

And yes, that article was posted on April 1, and is a joke. But the joke is on people who think of the classes (and indeed, all of the game rules) as being set in stone, and are afraid to change anything that isn't "official".

[Thrice Dead Cat]

You could also use the Savage Species ritual to gain an alignment subtype, allowing for entry into any class that requires said alignment.

[CyberThread]

Can you provide me a little more info on that please, that sounds....well to be frank. I have never seen that mentioned before in aliment conversations. An I don't think a sub type over rights alignment restrictions.

[ArcturusV]

It might, or might not. Part of it depends on the nature of the DM in question. I think most DMs would probably suggest it doesn't matter an having a type like (Outsider, Chaotic Evil) on your character race isn't going to fulfill the Requires: Any Evil alignment section on a class.

Because, I think it comes down to what the evil requirement really means. Most Evil classes aren't about "My nature is evil" so much. I mean if you could find classes who's powers are suggested to derive from a natural malevolent core within the character somehow, having an Evil type might be good to go. But generally the "evil" requirement is a result of you being dedicated to evil for some reason. Assassins gain their powers not through some natural source, but from being willing to be evil, join a guild of like minded individuals, and learn their skills. A Disciple of Graz'zt gains their power by being willing enough to sell his soul and commit atrocities in the name of an Archdevil.

You might have more luck going the other way with it. An otherwise evil person gaining good powers. While good aligned classes are the ones most likely to carry the "If you're no longer this alignment, lose powers" rider, not all of them do. And more of them suggest your power comes from an inner nature compared to a dedication to a Good Power. Usually as a loophole so your good aligned character doesn't necessarily have to be a divine lapdog, but it's there. So if your character was some Outsider (Good), you can probably get away with having some good powers even as some version of the Lightbringer.

The only other thing I seem to recall (vaguely) that you might consider is the Hellbred race. Which could be Good, and gain good powers, while also being allowed to use Evil powers with no impact on their alignment. You'd still have a problem with Paladin Code sort of stuff as that is independent of Alignment, but it's an option to consider.

[Karnith]

An I don't think a sub type over rights alignment restrictions.That would depend on whether meeting prerequisites is an effect. Per the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#evilSubtype) (and, yes, each alignment subtype has similar rules):
A subtype usually applied only to outsiders native to the evil-aligned Outer Planes. Evil outsiders are also called fiends. Most creatures that have this subtype also have evil alignments; however, if their alignments change, they still retain the subtype. Any effect that depends on alignment affects a creature with this subtype as if the creature has an evil alignment, no matter what its alignment actually is. The creature also suffers effects according to its actual alignment. A creature with the evil subtype overcomes damage reduction as if its natural weapons and any weapons it wields were evil-aligned (see Damage Reduction, above).(Emphasis mine)

I don't believe that meeting prereqs is an effect, but since "effect" isn't a defined game term, we're reduced to arguing semantics about it.

The only other thing I seem to recall (vaguely) that you might consider is the Hellbred race. Which could be Good, and gain good powers, while also being allowed to use Evil powers with no impact on their alignment. You'd still have a problem with Paladin Code sort of stuff as that is independent of Alignment, but it's an option to consider.
It should be noted that a Hellbred's Evil Exception ability is pretty limited; it lets you cast spells with the [Evil] descriptor regardless of your alignment or class restrictions, and lets you wield evil magic items without gaining negative levels, but that's it.

[CyberThread]

what was the ritual called, not having to much luck finding it

[Karnith]

what was the ritual called, not having to much luck finding it
It's called the Ritual of Alignment, aptly enough. It's on page 148 of Savage Species.

Also note that on completion it changes your alignment to match that of the subtype granted by the ritual.

[Larkas]

Well, you can cheat the universe into thinking you're evil by succeeding on a DC 70 Bluff check (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#bluff)... :smallbiggrin: