Leap attack

[Mechanize]

First: What is the official ruling? I did a google search and notice tons of people saying leap attack with a 2handed weapon does triple power attack bonus damage. Then I look on dndtools.eu and it says nothing about triple damage.

Second: Just to make sure I have this right. I can take power attack, leap attack, and shock trooper. If my bab is +10 and str +4. 2h weapon. I sac 10 AC for +20 damage, then leap attack doubles to +40. Then I add +6 str bonus to that for a +46. (unless it is triple damage in which case it would be +66)

Is this the correct way to do the math or am I off course?

[Karnith]

First: What is the official ruling? I did a google search and notice tons of people saying leap attack with a 2handed weapon does triple power attack bonus damage. Then I look on dndtools.eu and it says nothing about triple damage.To quote myself from another thread, here are the relevant rules for Leap Attack:Leap Attack, per the mothership: (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050107a&page=3)

Benefit: You can combine a jump with a charge against an opponent. If you cover at least 10 feet of horizontal distance with your jump, and you end your jump in a square from which you threaten your target, you can double the extra damage dealt by your use of the Power Attack feat. If you use this tactic with a two-handed weapon, you instead triple the extra damage from Power Attack.

This attack must follow all the normal rules for using the Jump skill and for making a charge, except that you ignore rough terrain in any squares you jump over.
And the errata: (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a)
The second sentence of the Benefit paragraph should read as follows:
If you cover at least 10 feet of horizontal distance with your jump, and you end your jump in a square from which you threaten your target, you deal +100% the normal bonus damage from your use of the Power Attack feat.
So, all together, Leap Attack now looks like:

Benefit: You can combine a jump with a charge against an opponent. If you cover at least 10 feet of horizontal distance with your jump, and you end your jump in a square from which you threaten your target, you deal +100% the normal bonus damage from your use of the Power Attack feat. If you use this tactic with a two-handed weapon, you instead triple the extra damage from Power Attack.

This attack must follow all the normal rules for using the Jump skill and for making a charge, except that you ignore rough terrain in any squares you jump over.Note that CustServ has consistently stated in the past that the errata was meant to replace the second and third sentences of the feat, not just the second.

[Gavinfoxx]

I usually do this sample character as an example of how this sort of thing works....

Human, Spirit Lion Totem, Whirling Frenzy Barbarian 9

Feats:
1. Power Attack
Hu: Battle Jump
3: Improved Bull Rush
6: Shock Trooper
9: Leap Attack

Items of note: A +1 Baatorian Greensteel Gloryborn Valorous Greatsword (a +2-equivalent weapon).
A +2 Enhancement item of strength.
Masterwork Shoes of Jump.

Assumptions: He starts with an 18 strength and he puts his level 4 and 8 bonus to strength, and he maxxes Jump.

Here is his attack routine on a Whirling Frenzy-enabled Heedless Charge, jumping at the enemy to enable Battle Jump, with Leap Attack, with full power attack, at level 9:

Attack 1:
26 str (+8)
-2 to hit from whirling frenzy
+9 bab to hit
+1 enhancement to hit
+2 charge

Damage: 2d6
+1 enhancement
+12 strength (8 +4)
+1 Gloryborn
+27 with a Leap Attack Power Attack (9*3, via leap attack, rather than 9*1.5)
+1 from Greensteel

Multiplier x3 = Battle Jump (x2) + Valorous (x2)

(So a 2d6 changes into 6d6 after the x3 multiplier)

Damage on first attack is 6d6+126

So +18/6d6+126
or an average of 147 damage.

Attack 2:
26 str (+8)
-2 to hit from whirling frenzy
+9 bab to hit
+1 enhancement to hit
+2 charge

This is the same as the first attack, so +18/6d6+126
again, an average of 147 damage.

Attack 3:
28 str (+8)
-2 to hit from whirling frenzy
+4 bab to hit
+1 enhancement to hit
+2 Charge

+13 to hit

Damage:
Damage: 2d6
+1 enhancement
+12 strength (8 +4)
+1 Gloryborn
+27 with a Leap Attack Power Attack (9*3, via leap attack, rather than 9*1.5)
+1 from Greensteel

So this is +13/6d6+126
again, an average of 147 damage.

So 441 damage at level 9, while relatively under-equipped (you should have higher strength and better gear).

[Darrin]

First: What is the official ruling? I did a google search and notice tons of people saying leap attack with a 2handed weapon does triple power attack bonus damage. Then I look on dndtools.eu and it says nothing about triple damage.


The feat, as written, doubles the Power Attack damage for most weapons, and triples the Power Attack damage when using a two-handed weapon. Assuming you understand the bizarre multiplication rules that D&D uses, this actually makes sense and can be calculated somewhat easily, even when factoring in other multipliers.

But for whatever reason, the designer of that feat felt that the RPG community at large did not properly recognize what a unique special snowflake he was, and insisted that errata be issued to make the wording on the feat completely impenetrable to all logic and reason. Instead of using the somewhat standardized multiplication rules that most D&D players are already familiar with, the errata now says that you must replace the second sentence with "you deal +100% the normal bonus damage from your use of the Power Attack feat". When exactly is this +100% calculated, before or after your other multipliers and modifiers? No idea, the errata didn't mention that.

But it gets even stupider at that point, because the errata failed to change anything in the third sentence, which says you still get triple damage when using Power Attack with a two-handed weapon, using the existing D&D multiplication rules, which apparently were too supremely difficult to calculate for the second sentence but suddenly became super-easy to calculate for the third sentence.



Second: Just to make sure I have this right. I can take power attack, leap attack, and shock trooper. If my bab is +10 and str +4. 2h weapon. I sac 10 AC for +20 damage, then leap attack doubles to +40. Then I add +6 str bonus to that for a +46. (unless it is triple damage in which case it would be +66)


By RAW, no. You have to use the x3 multiplier, so Power Attacking for 10 does +30 damage.

However, many people choose to use the "+100%" damage from the errata, even when using a two-handed weapon, partly because it's kind of stupid to only erratify a single sentence in a feat while ignoring all the other sentences but mostly because +100% does more damage than x3 damage.

If you're already familiar with the D&D multiplication rules and not obsessed with exploiting every rules loophole to overkill all your enemies with +600 damage, then it's actually much easier to just ignore the errata and use the text of the feat exactly how it appears in Complete Adventurer.

[Mechanize]

The feat, as written, doubles the Power Attack damage for most weapons, and triples the Power Attack damage when using a two-handed weapon. Assuming you understand the bizarre multiplication rules that D&D uses, this actually makes sense and can be calculated somewhat easily, even when factoring in other multipliers.

But for whatever reason, the designer of that feat felt that the RPG community at large did not properly recognize what a unique special snowflake he was, and insisted that errata be issued to make the wording on the feat completely impenetrable to all logic and reason. Instead of using the somewhat standardized multiplication rules that most D&D players are already familiar with, the errata now says that you must replace the second sentence with "you deal +100% the normal bonus damage from your use of the Power Attack feat". When exactly is this +100% calculated, before or after your other multipliers and modifiers? No idea, the errata didn't mention that.

But it gets even stupider at that point, because the errata failed to change anything in the third sentence, which says you still get triple damage when using Power Attack with a two-handed weapon, using the existing D&D multiplication rules, which apparently were too supremely difficult to calculate for the second sentence but suddenly became super-easy to calculate for the third sentence.



By RAW, no. You have to use the x3 multiplier, so Power Attacking for 10 does +30 damage. And I'm confused why you're adding a +4 Str bonus first, and then a +6 Str bonus later.

However, many people choose to use the "+100%" damage from the errata, even when using a two-handed weapon, partly because it's kind of stupid to only erratify a single sentence in a feat while ignoring all the other sentences but mostly because +100% does more damage than x3 damage.

If you're already familiar with the D&D multiplication rules and not obsessed with exploiting every rules loophole to overkill all your enemies with +600 damage, then it's actually much easier to just ignore the errata and use the text of the feat exactly how it appears in Complete Adventurer.

I just meant that I have a +4 bonus to strength, so wielding a 2hw gives me a +6 to damage. That bonus 1.5x str damage isn't multiplied correct? Only the amount of BaB/AC you sacrifice for power attack

Honestly I am not trying to optimize anything at all. I just want to make sure I am doing this the correct way.

[Rijan_Sai]

I just meant that I have a +4 bonus to strength, so wielding a 2hw gives me a +6 to damage. That bonus 1.5x str damage isn't multiplied correct? Only the amount of BaB/AC you sacrifice for power attack

Honestly I am not trying to optimize anything at all. I just want to make sure I am doing this the correct way.

This (bolded part) is correct. The text from the feat states "you can double the extra damage dealt by your use of the Power Attack feat," while the errata says "you deal +100% the normal bonus damage from your use of the Power Attack feat. "

Both are referring only to what you get from Power Attack. *Using the errata, with the CustServ ruling mentioned earlier* Normal THF PA would be (for example) -5 BAB/AC = +10 Damage; with Leap Attack it would be -5 BAB/AC = +10 (+100%=+10) = +20 damage. Any other modifiers (STR; Enhancement bonus; etc) are not factored in. Leap Attack ONLY looks at the numbers from Power Attack.

(This (should) translate(s) through the PA "upgrades" that Frenzied Berzerker gets, as those (should) still qualify as "Power Attack." Thus, a Barb X/FB 10 would get (using the same -5 from^) -5 = +20; w/LA -5 = +20 (+100%=+20) = +40. There are those who would disagree with this, though)

(apparently, editing a post will eat quotes...)

[Firechanter]

Yeah, I'll also throw in my two coppers, although I basically can only second what Darrin said.

As printed in CAd, it just bounces up your regular PA multiplier by 1. So Two-handed PA gives you x3 instead of the regular x2.

The erratum as such didn't change anything, but as Karnith said above, the errataed errata finally increases the effective multiplier to x4 for THPA.

Nobody really understands why it was ever errataed in the first place - it's not like Leap Attack would have been too weak as printed. Also, the rules as printed were perfectly clear and unambiguous.

So, in short... you can use either version; whatever your group agrees on. If you get x4, you will definitely oneshot everything you can charge. If it's "just" x3, you will still oneshot most conceivable encounters, provided also get Pounce and Shock Trooper.

Personally, as a DM I'd rather give x4 multiplier for Leap Attack than permit that LeapAttack/BattleJump combo nonsense. We just had a discussion about that the other day in another thread, and nothing useful ever comes of it. Battle Jump is such a can of worms, I say just leave it to the Taer.