What does the "Level" entry in Tome of Battle mean?

[Shambolaz]

Hey, I was wondering if my reading of this correct. I want to get the Lightning Recovery manuever from the Warblade list. It's prerequesites are 2 Iron Heart manuevers. Also, it's Level field is listed as Warblade 4. I don't understand the significance of that. Does that mean I HAVE to be a 4th level Warblade to take it, have a Initiator Level of at least 4, or is it just there to say "this is the earliest level you would get it playing as a Warblade"? I'm wondering because I want to enter the Warblade class as a 8th level fighter, so my IL would be 5, and I'm thinking that would allow me to pick up Lightning Recovery after grabbing two low level Iron Heart manuevers.

Basically, I'm wondering if the Level field denotes the minimum IL needed for a manuever.

Thanks, and sorry if this is confusing!

[eggynack]

It works like spells do. Warblades get 5th level maneuvers when they hit an initiator level of nine, so that's what you need.

[Mcdt2]

The level field indicates the level of the maneuver, and which class has access to it, just like how spells are marked in the player's handbook. In order to learn a level 4 maneuver, you need to have an IL of 7. With an IL of 5, you can select up to level 3 maneuvers from the warblade disciplines, so you can take ones that say "Warblade 3" (or 2 or 1) in the level slot.


EDIT: Incidentally, these are the levels required for taking a certain level of maneuvers.

{table]Initiator Level|Maneuver level
1st-2nd|1st
3rd-4th|2nd
5-6th|3rd
7-8th|4th
9-10th|5th
11-12th|6th
13-14|7th
15-16th|8th
17th+|9th
[/table]

[Shambolaz]

Right on, thanks for the help!

[rexx1888]

does anyone have the page number for that, because ive been looking for the RAW on that for a while, it bugs me since to me, warblade is an initiator class, so therefore your initiator level should be whatever level your warblade(or swordsage or crusader) level is plus any other IL from other classes. what i mean is, take the warblade level up there, since he has 4IL's from fighter, his efective warblade level should be five(since thats his initiator class)... so yeah, i would love a link to the RAW please :)

[Mnemnosyne]

That table is on page 39.

The 'level' entry in maneuvers is confused particularly by mentioning class names. Unlike spellcasters, maneuvers are divided entirely by school/discipline, rather than a caster list. The default 'Crusader 5' on a 5th level Devoted Spirit maneuver is a pretty bad way of writing it, given that you can gain access to that maneuver via Martial Study (but you still need an IL of 9 and it's still a 5th level maneuver) or via the Eternal Blade, Jade Phoenix Mage, Master of Nine, and Ruby Knight Vindicator classes without ever taking a level of Crusader - again, with the same limitations of it still being a 5th level maneuver that requires initiator level of 9. Also, no class or feature refers to maneuvers 'on the crusader maneuver list' in the same way that you would say the Sor/Wiz spell list. They refer to them by discipline.

The 'Level' entry in all maneuvers should thus read simply the maneuver level and the discipline, rather than trying to pin it to one of the three base classes. It's basically that they tried to copy the spell notation format (to maintain familiarity) but didn't realize that this was a confusing and incorrect method of noting the level of a maneuver.