Legend of Korra Season 2 ...But you really are the worst. Ever!!!

[Ramza00]

Edit:
Legend of Korra returned on Friday September 13, 2013 with a new season Book 2: Spirits

The first six episodes have aired. Episodes air on Friday on the nick cable channel and air soon after on Nick.com (thanks for Grey_Watcher for the heads up.)

Unfortunately it seems they are only keep on the nick website the most recent 5 episodes thus some episodes are not avaliable any more.
Season 2 Episode 1: Rebel Spirits (http://www.nick.com/videos/clip/legend-of-korra-113-full-episode.html)
Season 2 Episode 2: The Southern Lights (http://www.nick.com/videos/clip/legend-of-korra-114-full-episode.html)
Season 2 Episode 3: Civil War Part 1 (http://www.nick.com/videos/clip/legend-of-korra-115-full-episode.html)
Season 2 Episode 4: Civil War Part 2 (http://www.nick.com/videos/clip/legend-of-korra-116-full-episode.html)
Season 2 Episode 5: Peacekeepers (http://www.nick.com/videos/clip/legend-of-korra-117-full-episode.html)
Season 2 Episode 6: The Sting (http://www.nick.com/videos/clip/legend-of-korra-118-full-episode.html)
Doug Walker (The Nostalgia Critic) has done some great Vlogs for the original show (Avatar: The Last Airbender), as well as season 1 of Legend of Korra.

He is also doing season 2, here are the season 2 episodes aired so far.
The Legend of Korra Vlogs - Rebel Spirit and Southern Lights (http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/specials/40635-the-legend-of-korra-vlogs-rebel-spirit-and-southern-lights)
The Legend of Korra Vlogs - Civil Wars Part 1 (http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/specials/40667-the-legend-of-korra-vlogs-civil-wars-part-1)
The Legend of Korra Vlogs - Civil Wars Part 2 (http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/specials/40765-the-legend-of-korra-vlogs-civil-wars-part-2)
The Legend of Korra Vlogs - Peacekeepers (http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/specials/40899-legend-of-korra-vlogs-peacekeepers)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-afbUVB3t5Sg/T-6EJgMWtrI/AAAAAAAAAL0/4XyTqpfOccw/s320/Lin+and+Korra+Stare+Off.gif

[Grey Watcher]

Legend of Korra is going to return tomorrow (Friday September 13, 2013) with a new season Book 2: Spirits

We are getting two episodes aired on Friday
Season 2 Episode 1: Rebel Spirits
Season 2 Episode 2: The Southern Lights

So who is looking forward to it? I know I am.

I anxiously awaiting having to avoid this thread and its descendants for half a week while I wait for them to put the episodes on the website. :smalltongue: (Dropping cable seemed like a good idea at the time....)

[Ramza00]

I anxiously awaiting having to avoid this thread and its descendants for half a week while I wait for them to put the episodes on the website. :smalltongue: (Dropping cable seemed like a good idea at the time....)

So Amon got to you and you were equalized :P

[Ramza00]

5 minutes worth of trailer from nick.com

http://www.nick.com/videos/clip/legend-of-korra-korra-nation-superfan-trailer-ce3n.html

http://www.nick.com/videos/clip/comic-con-2013-legend-of-korra-book-2-trailer-d3m.html

[Silverraptor]

I didn't realize it was so close!:smalleek:

http://oi55.tinypic.com/2yvvuyf.jpg

[Clertar]

w00t!!!

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0w8zc5W5e1qceiz6o3_500.gif

[Gamerlord]

5 minutes worth of trailer from nick.com

http://www.nick.com/videos/clip/legend-of-korra-korra-nation-superfan-trailer-ce3n.html

http://www.nick.com/videos/clip/comic-con-2013-legend-of-korra-book-2-trailer-d3m.html
That is some really great animation. Not that LoK Season One or the first Airbender series was ever lacking, but damn.

[ThePhantom]

Saw the pilot, looks nice. Animation is still good. More of the family of Aang is good.

Korra's uncle is totally a villain. The design of his face, the comments that hint at something more, plus the fact that he sent his army in talking about they are to restore the Southern Tribe to a righteous way all say villain.

[Shadowy]

Well, that was excellent. The show is still up to snuff, Mako is still terrible, and I wanted more Asami.

But it was rather good.

[Reverent-One]

Mako is still terrible,

Well, his jokes are anyway. :smalltongue:

[Ramza00]

I am intrigued by the first two episodes. They didn't seem good or bad just mere set up pieces.

[Silverraptor]

So far, this set up is pretty good.

[Hiro Protagonest]

So... do I watch when it comes up the site, subjecting myself once again to this? Or do I never do that and instead just read the thread?

I'll probably be doing the former until I'm fed up with it again.

[Kawaii Soldier]

So... do I watch when it comes up the site, subjecting myself once again to this? Or do I never do that and instead just read the thread?

I'll probably be doing the former until I'm fed up with it again.

Honestly, I find this statement pretty offensive. You haven't even seen the newest episodes and you're already putting them down. I get a lot of people didn't like the first season, and that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion. But just stating the new installments are bad without seeing them and commenting about it when other people are trying to seriously talk about is very rude.

Back on topic, unfortunately I missed the new episodes today! D: :_( I didn't know they were on. I didn't see any commercials, and I don't watch Nick regularly. I guess I can always watch them online. That, or some super nice playgrounder can tell me when they air reruns. ;)

[Hiro Protagonest]

Honestly, I find this statement pretty offensive. You haven't even seen the newest episodes and you're already putting them down. I get a lot of people didn't like the first season, and that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion. But just stating the new installments are bad without seeing them and commenting about it when other people are trying to seriously talk about is very rude.

I absolutely hated Season 1. This is the nicest way I can say I'm giving it a second chance.

I've calmed down in the last year, but I'm still abrasive.

[Kawaii Soldier]

I absolutely hated Season 1. This is the nicest way I can say I'm giving it a second chance.

I've calmed down in the last year, but I'm still abrasive.

"I didn't particularly care for season 1, but I'll give season 2 a try even though my hopes are low."

:smallwink:

Honestly, some people really liked the show and I don't think it's fair to call the new installments bad without seeing them. You've pretty much determined the new episodes are going to be bad and you haven't even seen them. At least watch them first, or if you're so convinced they will be bad, don't watch the show and let those of us who enjoy it talk about it.

[t209]

Saw the pilot, looks nice. Animation is still good. More of the family of Aang is good.

Korra's uncle is totally a villain. The design of his face, the comments that hint at something more, plus the fact that he sent his army in talking about they are to restore the Southern Tribe to a righteous way all say villain.
Either
he's a villain or anti-villain. Plus, Korra's dad was too stubborn to lay a siege on barbarian (Southern Raider remnants?) 20 years ago.

[Gamerlord]

The bits involving Korra were at best tolerable (It's almost like she has forgotten everything she learned last season :smallsigh:), but everything else was awesome. :smallbiggrin: I really hope they don't go down the road of pairing up Asami/Bolin that it seems like they are hinting at though. It reeks too much of "Pair the Spares" to me.


Korra's uncle is totally a villain. The design of his face, the comments that hint at something more, plus the fact that he sent his army in talking about they are to restore the Southern Tribe to a righteous way all say villain.
I think it's a bit too obvious personally. I was half-expecting opening the portal to result in a giant dark spirit invasion and that he was behind the spirit-summoning. I think he is just a red herring for whoever the true menace is.

[Grey Watcher]

Oh, Nick.com you cruel bastard. Giving me just the first half hour of a full hour premiere. Helas!

Anyway...I don't think... Korra's new mentor, is actually the villain, at least not the one who's the architect of the current Spirit Crisis. When he calmed that one spirit, I was concerned that it seemed a tad too easy and that he was manufacturing a problem just to solve it, but then I thought maybe I was being a bit overly cynical/analytical. Either way, I think that his brand of spirituality will become... problematic. If his children are any indication, emotional and psychological well-being are not high on his list of priorities. Of course, maybe his kids are that way despite his best efforts.

Also, I am mildly irked that after Aang had so very much trouble getting into the Avatar State at will that the very unspiritual Korra is able to do it so casually. Maybe we just skipped over her weekend with a pickle-and-banana juice swilling guru?

Also, I really like the wacky eccentric millionaire. Yes he's a silly comic relief character, but kooky 1920's weirdos are FUN!

[t209]

Oh, Nick.com you cruel bastard. Giving me just the first half hour of a full hour premiere. Helas!

Anyway...I don't think... Korra's new mentor, is actually the villain, at least not the one who's the architect of the current Spirit Crisis. When he calmed that one spirit, I was concerned that it seemed a tad too easy and that he was manufacturing a problem just to solve it, but then I thought maybe I was being a bit overly cynical/analytical. Either way, I think that his brand of spirituality will become... problematic. If his children are any indication, emotional and psychological well-being are not high on his list of priorities. Of course, maybe his kids are that way despite his best efforts.

Also, I am mildly irked that after Aang had so very much trouble getting into the Avatar State at will that the very unspiritual Korra is able to do it so casually. Maybe we just skipped over her weekend with a pickle-and-banana juice swilling guru?

Also, I really like the wacky eccentric millionaire. Yes he's a silly comic relief character, but kooky 1920's weirdos are FUN!
I like the millionaire though, he remind me of Cave Johnson. So Millionaire dude vs Tenzin's brother vs Bumi, who's your favorite nutjob (I've seen too many Pinkie Pie and Deadpool)?

[Grey Watcher]

I like the millionaire though, he remind me of Cave Johnson. So Millionaire dude vs Bolin's brother vs Bumi, who's your favorite nutjob (I've seen too many Pinkie Pie and Deadpool)?

Bolin's brother? Do you mean...? Actually, I'm not sure to whom you're referring. But I'll go with the millionaire. Because he's just plain crazy. Not extroverted or boisterous or embarrassing to his straightlaced little brother like Bumi, but simply mad as a hatter. He's like if you gave Luna Lovegood espresso or something. :smallbiggrin:

[Razanir]

HOW DID I NOT FIND OUT ABOUT THIS SOONER?!

I didn't know this was happening until it was halfway over.

[Silverraptor]

I believe the new mentor is aiming to exact "Full Rule" on the southern water tribe. While calming the spirits might be the first goal, his ultimate goal is to also rule the south pole with that many soldiers.

That, or he needs those soldiers to counter the torrent of dark spirits that are headed their way...

[t209]

Bolin's brother? Do you mean...? Actually, I'm not sure to whom you're referring. But I'll go with the millionaire. Because he's just plain crazy. Not extroverted or boisterous or embarrassing to his straightlaced little brother like Bumi, but simply mad as a hatter. He's like if you gave Luna Lovegood espresso or something. :smallbiggrin:
I mean
Tenzin's brother, you know that one that's named after King Bumi.

[Ashen Lilies]

I anxiously awaiting having to avoid this thread and its descendants for half a week while I wait for them to put the episodes on the website. :smalltongue: (Dropping cable seemed like a good idea at the time....)

So uh... when is it exactly that episodes end up on the website again?

*will also have to watch the series this way instead of catching them on TV*

[Caivs]

I found Unalaq to be for now an INCREDIBLE character. Let's see if Nick is mature enough to handle nuanced characters with credible motivations now

Overall, for now season 2 seems great, but I won't rejoice too soon since season 1 was also very promising with all the potential it had. All the political and ideological aspect of the Equalists could have made it a true work of art... They might have learned the lesson.

[Rising Phoenix]

I think part of the reason season 1 turned out to be rather mediocre was because the pacing screwed up. That being said I will also be reserved about this season until here's proof that they've sorted things out.

[Grey Watcher]

So uh... when is it exactly that episodes end up on the website again?

*will also have to watch the series this way instead of catching them on TV*

Last season it was about 2 or 3 days later. But at least the first half-hour is already up.

EDIT: I spoke too soon. Rebel Spirit and The Southern Lights (the first hour that premiered at 7 on the broadcast) are up on Nick.com now. Hopefully they will continue to be this prompt.

EDIT 2: Direct linkage (http://www.nick.com/videos/legend-of-korra-videos)

[Jayngfet]

So Amon is supposed to be a psychotic liar for claiming the spirits are displeased with the way mortals are acting and are restless.

Only right after he dies the spirits are shown to become restless and displeased by the actions of mortals.

Either Amon was way more sincere than we realize or else literally every single character is somehow stupid enough to fall for the same line twice in rapid succession.

[Douglas]

So Amon is supposed to be a psychotic liar for claiming the spirits are displeased with the way mortals are acting and are restless.

Only right after he dies the spirits are shown to become restless and displeased by the actions of mortals.

Either Amon was way more sincere than we realize or else literally every single character is somehow stupid enough to fall for the same line twice in rapid succession.
Or Amon was just smart enough to weave something that happened to be true into his propaganda.

[Juntao112]

So Amon is supposed to be a psychotic liar for claiming the spirits are displeased with the way mortals are acting and are restless.

Only right after he dies the spirits are shown to become restless and displeased by the actions of mortals.

Either Amon was way more sincere than we realize or else literally every single character is somehow stupid enough to fall for the same line twice in rapid succession.

Well, its certainly possible that the spirits were displeased, and Amon saw signs of this and decided to run with it and claim that he had been granted the special power to remove bending by the spirits.

[Gettles]

Honestly so far I'm a lot more interested in the Tenzen family vacation over the main plot.

[HamHam]

This premier was a mixed bag. On the one hand it has some interesting concepts and characters. But the terrible characterization and ham fisted plotting that sunk the first season are still in full effect.

Someone makes a reasonable suggestion. Tenzen flips out about it! How are we still doing this same shtick.

It's going to be stupid and boring when her uncle turns out to be evil.

I like the twins, the rich guy, the way the air temple dudes act towards Tenzen.

Bumi I am already sick of.

Mako and Korra continue to have zero chemistry.

I do really like "writes one liners down for later"-cop Mako. I can get behind that.

[The Rose Dragon]

EDIT 2: Direct linkage (http://www.nick.com/videos/legend-of-korra-videos)

You would think that, at this day and age, websites would stop using the "this video is unavailable in your location" message, and just embrace internationality.

[Hyena]

Oh God... This... This... The warm and fuzzy feeling of the "Avatar The Last Airbender"! It's returning! I can feel it!
Mako is awesome, Bolin is funny, Korra is sympathetic, new characters are interesting, pro-bending took one second of screen time, Meelo has, like, two lines and morally grey issues are truly grey!
Hip-hip! Hooray! Hip-hip! Hooray! Hip-hip!

...oh. And obvious villain is obvious.

[Cen]

Hmm it seems promosing... I sincerely hope it will be better than Book 1.
Book 2 will be 14 episodes more than book 1 but still much less than any book of Aang...

regarding the episodes:
I sincerely hope that Unalaq won't be cheap evil guy.
Desna and Eska have potential.
According to wiki Grey DeLisle will voice "The Dark Spirit". This will be good.
Mako is worthless, both as a firebender and as a boyfriend.
Korra is such a terrible, annoying and obnoxious charracter. So far she is the worst point of this series.

[Clertar]

I like it, living up to its predecessor and the promising first season :)

(Tenzin http://www.racocatala.cat/images/smileys/plorar.gif)

[Socratov]

So, obvious villain is obvious indeed. And **** is going down. DSid Koraa just ehm... give away poland so to speak?

[Cen]

Did Koraa just ehm... give away poland so to speak?

huh?
2 next episodes are called "Civil Wars" pt 1 and 2 so...

[Socratov]

huh?
2 next episodes are called "Civil Wars" pt 1 and 2 so...

Yeah, I felt a certain similarity with history so to speak...

Oh and why do I have this feeling that Airbending will be central to solving this season's troubles?

[Morty]

I decided to give season two a chance, because I'd really like to believe the writers can do better than they did in season one. They did such a great job with The Last Airbender, after all. Impressions so far, in no particular order and spoilered just in case:


The Equalists were mentioned for ten seconds and then promptly forgotten. Probably for the best; if I screwed up so badly as a writer, I'd want to forget it too. The time in this season is better spent establishing its own story than trying to salvage the wreckage of the previous one.
Korra is still stubborn, stupid and immature.
Her relationship with Mako is as wooden as it was during the finale of the previous season.
At least the way she unlocked the Avatar State and learned airbending are acknowledged as being half-assed.
Tenzin's kids are... surprisingly less aggravating than I expected. Meelo can still go die in a fire, but it looks like Jinora might play a role in the spirit world plot.
I'm going to be really disappointed if Unalok ends up being a villain. But now that he had the Northern Water Tribe invade the Southern, it looks that way.
It's interesting to see what became of the Air Temples. The Air Nomad culture is basically a sham right now, being kept alive artificially, with a handful of airbenders being fawned over by fanboys. I'm not sure if this is intentional. But I still don't like how apparently only Aang's descendants can be airbenders now. Wasn't bending supposed to be only partially genetic? Still, given this season's premise, it's possible it will become a plot point.
The main plot of the season, with the spirits, sure looks interesting. I love the visual design of the spirits and the way they stand apart from the mortal world, even while in it. I do hope they don't screw this up as badly as they did the Equalists.
Good to see Uncle Sokka's spirit live on in Bumi. I like him. It's also interesting to see Aang's two non-airbender children apparently sidelined in favour of Tenzin. But it's probably only the Air Acolytes who feel this way.
Finally, the mention of 'barbarians' is curious. But they were probably just a convenient handwave to provide an actual enemy the Water Tribe warriors could fight against.

[The Rose Dragon]

It is kind of sad that my favorite part of the two episodes was "why are you initiating physical contact with another woman?". Otherwise, I mostly felt confused as to what was going on.

[Rising Phoenix]

On viewing the first two eps.



Something tells me than the environmental destruction brought on by the industrialization is angering the spirits.

Though Inulak appears to be stern I really don't think he is villain material at this stage. In DnD terms I'd call him LN.

Korra's and Mako's relationship detracts from the show.

The OST appears to be great.

[Mutant Sheep]

Yes, episodes happened, quite.
Korra, why didn't you just say, I dunno, "I'll be back after I learn from my uncle, this isn't a goodbye forever"? Its practically impossible to say goodbye forever, Tenzin is still too important of a world player. But apperently we have to force conflict and not just going at spirituality, something Tenzin WANTS Korra to progress in, being approached from another direction. Unaloq (sp? xD) and Tenzin should have been bro-ing it down, not having an idiotic disagreement over ego. Fun conflict, but I want to see better from Tenzin.:smallsigh::smalltongue: Her learning spirituality through genuine firsthand action and a new perspective is dangerous, so I wont say it "can't hurt her", but any progress she gets there can come right over to you once she finishes up. And Korra's father confuses me.

Korra's family gets have a backstory and her uncle is an antagonist/opposes the old cast! Because an Avatar has to come from the important family lines, apparently. Niece of the Chief of the North Water Tribe.

Korra's father's icebending was awesome. I thought it was very similar to earthbending, which I like. And seeing Korra just waterbend around the spirit was the most hilarious part of the episode, for me.:smallamused: I was just waiting for the spiritual backhand.

Tenzin's Retreat: I am so damn creeped out by the Air Acolytes. They freak me out and, especially with their portrayal here, have established my optimistic headcanon of mindful-hippies who aren't idiots to be complete Arctic-Camel puckey. "Aang had other children"? Good god, he apparently lead the Second Division/Fleet/Whatever, second only to the Son of the Firelord (I assume New-Iroh's father is the firelord, but it might be a different relative? was he Zuko's grandson?:smallconfused:) and the brother of the guy you've obsessed over! Even these idiot recluses should know BASIC BIOGRAPHY DETAILS about the Airbending family if their going to...:smallfurious::smallsigh: Gah. Mah bwain.

And the twins were great. I don't see how someone as capable as their father didn't teach them basic acting skills, but they are very entertaining and interesting characters right now. i wasn't sure if they were even benders until the icebootskis. Yay Bolin getting... Something. Actually, I think being single might be better for him.:smallbiggrin: (And seriously, those were crappy recruits for the Fire Ferrets. Big team? Had the Avatar on it? Sure there isn't much money in it, but you'd think there'd be SOME motivation. :smallconfused:

I wish every new episode would come in awesome pairs.:smalltongue:

Edit: Poor Swami. Bolin took his job. :smallbiggrin: The voice and the design of Varrik (Again, sp? xD) didn't match for me. It's like they wanted a Cave Johnson esque character (Yes, I know eccentric industrialist has been a thing since economies happened:smalltongue:), but I guess the way he moves and a voice of that quality don't mesh for me?:smallconfused: I was only bothered when he was breathing on Bolin's face about the levitating, but that was more line delivery. THAT GUY running the economy of the planet is... Interesting, to say the least.:smallamused:

Edit 2:ONE MORE THING. #Uncleee:smallbiggrin: Whatsherface, Katara's daughter, poking Tenzin. BEST. THING. EVER. Katara just staring disappointed as her daughter channels Sokka...

[Grey Watcher]

Yes, episodes happened, quite.
Korra, why didn't you just say, I dunno, "I'll be back after I learn from my uncle, this isn't a goodbye forever"? Its practically impossible to say goodbye forever, Tenzin is still too important of a world player. But apperently we have to force conflict and not just going at spirituality, something Tenzin WANTS Korra to progress in, being approached from another direction. Unaloq (sp? xD) and Tenzin should have been bro-ing it down, not having an idiotic disagreement over ego. Fun conflict, but I want to see better from Tenzin.:smallsigh::smalltongue: Her learning spirituality through genuine firsthand action and a new perspective is dangerous, so I wont say it "can't hurt her", but any progress she gets there can come right over to you once she finishes up. And Korra's father confuses me.

Korra's family gets have a backstory and her uncle is an antagonist/opposes the old cast! Because an Avatar has to come from the important family lines, apparently. Niece of the Chief of the North Water Tribe.

Korra's father's icebending was awesome. I thought it was very similar to earthbending, which I like. And seeing Korra just waterbend around the spirit was the most hilarious part of the episode, for me.:smallamused: I was just waiting for the spiritual backhand.

Tenzin's Retreat: I am so damn creeped out by the Air Acolytes. They freak me out and, especially with their portrayal here, have established my optimistic headcanon of mindful-hippies who aren't idiots to be complete Arctic-Camel puckey. "Aang had other children"? Good god, he apparently lead the Second Division/Fleet/Whatever, second only to the Son of the Firelord (I assume New-Iroh's father is the firelord, but it might be a different relative? was he Zuko's grandson?:smallconfused:) and the brother of the guy you've obsessed over! Even these idiot recluses should know BASIC BIOGRAPHY DETAILS about the Airbending family if their going to...:smallfurious::smallsigh: Gah. Mah bwain.

And the twins were great. I don't see how someone as capable as their father didn't teach them basic acting skills, but they are very entertaining and interesting characters right now. i wasn't sure if they were even benders until the icebootskis. Yay Bolin getting... Something. Actually, I think being single might be better for him.:smallbiggrin: (And seriously, those were crappy recruits for the Fire Ferrets. Big team? Had the Avatar on it? Sure there isn't much money in it, but you'd think there'd be SOME motivation. :smallconfused:

I wish every new episode would come in awesome pairs.:smalltongue:

Edit: Poor Swami. Bolin took his job. :smallbiggrin: The voice and the design of Varrik (Again, sp? xD) didn't match for me. It's like they wanted a Cave Johnson esque character, but I guess the way he moves and a voice of that quality don't mesh for me?:smallconfused: I was only bothered when he was breathing on Bolin's face about the levitating, but that was more line delivery. THAT GUY running the economy of the planet is... Interesting, to say the least.:smallamused:

I'm kind of surprised that "Aang had other children!?!?" didn't get at least a little more screen time. I am still hoping that Tenzin being so embarrassed by his siblings that he's literally tried to ignore their existence where possible is going to explored a bit more. I mean, the man struggles so hard to maintain that stern, dignified image, and his siblings and two middle children stubbornly refuse to play along. :smalltongue:

As for the whole Tenzin-or-Unalok as a teacher conflict, I feel like the dialogue could've been framed a bit better. I understand that it couldn't happen due to Plot, but I wish they'd spent a little bit more time shooting down the obvious solution of "We'll, she can study Aribending with me and spirituality with you." Given their history, Korra's dad should really have been the one to torpedo that idea, given that he's the one with a history with Unalok.

Also, I dunno, restoring the Southern Lights felt... cheap. I guess it was because I was expecting a totally different direction, like a few episodes of Korra gets bodily lost in the Spirit World (which I believe has actually happened, right?).

I'm also kind of surprised they dropped the Unalok Is a Fanatic shoe quite so quickly.

[ThePhantom]

Um, while General Iroh is Zuko's grandson, its his mother who is the firelord.

[t209]

I'm kind of surprised that "Aang had other children!?!?" didn't get at least a little more screen time. I am still hoping that Tenzin being so embarrassed by his siblings that he's literally tried to ignore their existence where possible is going to explored a bit more. I mean, the man struggles so hard to maintain that stern, dignified image, and his siblings and two middle children stubbornly refuse to play along. :smalltongue:

As for the whole Tenzin-or-Unalok as a teacher conflict, I feel like the dialogue could've been framed a bit better. I understand that it couldn't happen due to Plot, but I wish they'd spent a little bit more time shooting down the obvious solution of "We'll, she can study Aribending with me and spirituality with you." Given their history, Korra's dad should really have been the one to torpedo that idea, given that he's the one with a history with Unalok.

Also, I dunno, restoring the Southern Lights felt... cheap. I guess it was because I was expecting a totally different direction, like a few episodes of Korra gets bodily lost in the Spirit World (which I believe has actually happened, right?).

I'm also kind of surprised they dropped the Unalok Is a Fanatic shoe quite so quickly.
On the subject of Barbarian,
- They look like remnants of Southern and North Raiders during 100 years war (fire and red uniform).
- It would be better Korra's dad made a siege (AKA starve them out) but maybe TV ratings doesn't allow death by starvation.
Edit: I discovered the contrast between Northern and Southern Tribe,
- Before 100 year war, Southern Tribe is more egalitarian than Northern Tribe.
- Now, Southern Tribe is both liberal and more industrialised than Northern Tribe.

[Razanir]

I'm not going to jump to Unalaq as a villain, or at least not an Evil one. He's more LN than anything
"why are you initiating physical contact with another woman?" Best line.
Varrick is one of my favorite characters
Wild mass guessing time! Mystery avatar is first avatar!

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Interesting and promising.
Loved the Howard Hughes figure who got a little screentime. Oh, Bolin; what have you gotten into?

Mako isn't a bad Dirty Harry type. Might be fun to see a little more of that, but I also hope he matures along with Korra.

I continue to enjoy the advancement of tech in the world, combined with the more mythic elements. Though, question--has anyone ever explained just how there could possibly be so many Avatars? Based on the statues in the Air Temples....it's a whole lotta Avatars, and I'd expect the Avatarverse to be more technologically advanced for that long of a history. (I mean, what--40 Avatars should be enough to cover two millenia of history, and it feels like there's way more than that.)

For a Book called the "Book of Spirits", I expect things to be a lot more challenging when it comes to restoring balance. Did not expect the portal problem to be solved that easily.

The subplot with Jinora and the mystery Avatar is a bit odd, but not a bad setup with hints at what's to come.

And--I'm definitely hoping for the Uncle to be a bit more nuanced in his villainy, because the potential is definitely there: a villain who's convinced that what he's doing is the right course of action, who works on the side of the heroes.

[Hyena]

Wild mass guessing time! Mystery avatar is first avatar!
Not-really-a-spoiler - he's the guy from the trailer, duh.
Oh, by the way. I'm really not into shipping (and that's the reason why I don't hate Mako like the majority of the fanbase), but from this day I oficially ship Boleska.

[Dragonus45]

Interesting and promising.
Loved the Howard Hughes figure who got a little screentime. Oh, Bolin; what have you gotten into?

Mako isn't a bad Dirty Harry type. Might be fun to see a little more of that, but I also hope he matures along with Korra.

I continue to enjoy the advancement of tech in the world, combined with the more mythic elements. Though, question--has anyone ever explained just how there could possibly be so many Avatars? Based on the statues in the Air Temples....it's a whole lotta Avatars, and I'd expect the Avatarverse to be more technologically advanced for that long of a history. (I mean, what--40 Avatars should be enough to cover two millenia of history, and it feels like there's way more than that.)

For a Book called the "Book of Spirits", I expect things to be a lot more challenging when it comes to restoring balance. Did not expect the portal problem to be solved that easily.

The subplot with Jinora and the mystery Avatar is a bit odd, but not a bad setup with hints at what's to come.

And--I'm definitely hoping for the Uncle to be a bit more nuanced in his villainy, because the potential is definitely there: a villain who's convinced that what he's doing is the right course of action, who works on the side of the heroes.

The implication that i got from the interqual comic was that technology was stunted by the avatar enforcing the lines between the cultures meaning that they couldn't really share knowledge and tech and bending techniques at a very fast rate.

[Grey Watcher]

The implication that i got from the interqual comic was that technology was stunted by the avatar enforcing the lines between the cultures meaning that they couldn't really share knowledge and tech and bending techniques at a very fast rate.

Well, honestly, it's taken real-world humans almost 10,000 years to get from inventing agriculture to industrialization, so I'm gonna say if our fictional counterparts can do it in a fifth of that time, they're doing pretty well. :smalltongue:

[Metahuman1]

Alright, watched it, not bad, but I'm still afraid there gonna have pacing problems here. I ultimately think that the fatal flaw with this series is the lack of 20 eps a season to cover things. Yes, the romance is a flaw as well, but that would be a forgivable flaw if things had more time to develop properly.


That said, I've not ruled out the uncle having set this up to have an excuse to come in and take over with the avatars blessing. Or that he's just capitalizing on an emergency to do something he wants to do. I hope they have a bit more subtly then that, the first season managed that somewhat and the first series did it even better, so I know it's not beyond them if the network executives aren't mucking it up.

Then again, I think it's the executives that keep killing the season lengths.

[Hyena]

By the way. I've got two theories, one crazy and one that you probably share.

1) Tonraq is controlling the dark spirits. He makes them attack south water tribe, so he gets an excuse to take over and make his reforms. Notice how spirits don't actually harm anybody seriously, just throw people around and wreck stuff? And every time they are about to injure somebody, Tonraq is right there, calming them down?
2) We will get "Republic City players". I mean, just look at his "movers".

[BWR]

Promising start. I had hoped Tenzin would have learned something from last year and that her uncle wasn't actually a bad guy. Sure he may be well-meaning and following the road paved with good intentions, but I really hoped he would be something like a red herring: he spouts the words to trigger our bad-guydar but actually has a valid point and is really in the right. Troops taking over probably throws that out the window. After all, look what happened last time someone decided to take over other people 'for their own good'.

Still, I'm really looking forward to learning more about the spirit world. I can understand why A:tLA and the first season of LoK didn't delve deep into this; they had other stories to tell, after all. Animation is still top notch.

[Kd7sov]

Sooo...

(Silly theory)If I remember correctly, we determined last time that A. Firebender was a waterbender. Unalaq is a waterbender.

Are they one and the same?

[Grey Watcher]

Sooo...

(Silly theory)If I remember correctly, we determined last time that A. Firebender was a waterbender. Unalaq is a waterbender.

Are they one and the same?

The boat explosion blew him back in time so he could become Chief of the Northern Water Tribe? Makes sense for a GitP Forum theory. :smallsmile:

[Clertar]

I feel that some people's fun watching the show is a little ruined by their over-analyzing it to an excessive point http://www.racocatala.cat/images/smileys/pensar.gif

[Hiro Protagonest]

I feel that some people's fun watching the show is a little ruined by their over-analyzing it to an excessive point http://www.racocatala.cat/images/smileys/pensar.gif

It hasn't ruined RWBY for me yet!

[Razanir]

Sooo...

(Silly theory)If I remember correctly, we determined last time that A. Firebender was a waterbender. Unalaq is a waterbender.

Are they one and the same?


The boat explosion blew him back in time so he could become Chief of the Northern Water Tribe? Makes sense for a GitP Forum theory. :smallsmile:

Remind me who A. Firebender was?

[psilontech]

Did anyone else think that the business guy was voiced by the same voice actor as Cave Johnson from Portal 2?

[Metahuman1]

Remind me who A. Firebender was?

It turned out to be a figment of Amon's propaganda.

[Flickerdart]

Sooo...

(Silly theory)If I remember correctly, we determined last time that A. Firebender was a waterbender. Unalaq is a waterbender.

Are they one and the same?

Silliness aside, Unalaq is basically a Fire Lord - he believes that his way of governance is correct, and wants to enforce it with warships.

Also, why does water need spirit control in addition to healing and blood bending and taking away bending? Meanwhile, Air still has zero special moves.

[Hands_Of_Blue]

Did anyone else think that the business guy was voiced by the same voice actor as Cave Johnson from Portal 2?J.K. Simmons, the voice of Cave Johnson, actually does Tenzin.

Varrick is voiced by John Micheal Higgins, who played Wayne Jarvis in Arrested Development.

[Dragonus45]

Silliness aside, Unalaq is basically a Fire Lord - he believes that his way of governance is correct, and wants to enforce it with warships.

Also, why does water need spirit control in addition to healing and blood bending and taking away bending? Meanwhile, Air still has zero special moves.


I think any bender can do it, but the only person we have seen do it so far was a water bender.

[endoperez]

I think I've figured out one of the themes of Korra. Siblings and family, and tensions that rise between them, things that separate them, things that turns family members against each other, or away from each other, and how they resolve those conflicts.

Mako and Bolin. The airtime (:smallcool:) given to the airbender kids as a group. Tenzin and his siblings. Asami and her dad. The twins in Season 2. Korra's father and uncle.

Amon and Tarrlok


I don't know if the emphasis on dating figures in through the "family" angle, or through the "differences between siblings (= Mako and Bolin)" angle.

Personally, I'd like to see
Korra and Mako's relationships falling apart in a "we're not a good match, let's try something else" way, while Bolin ends up in a happy and healthy relationship. Perhaps with Asami.

[Silverraptor]

So, I had a crazy thought. You remember Amon from season 1? What if he succeeded in removing all bending from the world? It seems like bending is the only way to calm the angry spirits with that water currently, how screwed would the world be if there was no bending to stop the spirits?

[Sliver]

Perhaps without the avatar, the bridge between the spirit world and the physical world, the spirits wouldn't be able to manifest at all. Like a DM that only sends encounters that the party can handle, or at least retreat from. :smalltongue:

[Metahuman1]

Silliness aside, Unalaq is basically a Fire Lord - he believes that his way of governance is correct, and wants to enforce it with warships.

Also, why does water need spirit control in addition to healing and blood bending and taking away bending? Meanwhile, Air still has zero special moves.


Canonically, Airbenders have two special moves I can think of. They can fly, either with help of tools or with out if there powerful enough, and they can direct the movement of air currents around them to enhance there speed and reflexes. Canonically this is a large part of what makes them so good at not getting hit in a fight.

[Flickerdart]

Canonically, Airbenders have two special moves I can think of. They can fly, either with help of tools or with out if there powerful enough, and they can direct the movement of air currents around them to enhance there speed and reflexes. Canonically this is a large part of what makes them so good at not getting hit in a fight.

Those are all still bending air, though. Lightning, bloodbending, and now calming the spirits are very obviously not just moving the base element in a different way.

[Dragonus45]

Those are all still bending air, though. Lightning, bloodbending, and now calming the spirits are very obviously not just moving the base element in a different way.


Your still assuming that only a waterbnender can do it.

[ICN]

Those are all still bending air, though. Lightning, bloodbending, and now calming the spirits are very obviously not just moving the base element in a different way.


I'd disagree with bloodbending being exceptionally different from normal waterbending. I see it as a lot like metalbending actually. The core element has been diluted, making it much more difficult to bend. With super moon powers/genetics that obstacle can be overcome though. So they are still moving the base element around, it just isn't as easy.

[Flickerdart]

I'd disagree with bloodbending being exceptionally different from normal waterbending. I see it as a lot like metalbending actually. The core element has been diluted, making it much more difficult to bend. With super moon powers/genetics that obstacle can be overcome though. So they are still moving the base element around, it just isn't as easy.
Well sure, but we never see air "just" moving around something with diluted air inside.

[ICN]

Well sure, but we never see air "just" moving around something with diluted air inside.

In the original series, Katara and Aang combine air and waterbending to move clouds around in the episode with the fortune-teller. It would probably be possible with just one of the elements. I admit it's pretty flimsy, but I figured I'd throw it out there.

[Sliver]

Well sure, but we never see air "just" moving around something with diluted air inside.

Bloodbending came as something horrible to do, first used as a desperate means of escape and used further only by pretty evil waterbenders.

I'd say it's quite possible to force someone's body with airbending, it's just that we haven't seen any airbender with the mentality needed to try something like that.

[Flickerdart]

Bloodbending came as something horrible to do, first used as a desperate means of escape and used further only by pretty evil waterbenders.

I'd say it's quite possible to force someone's body with airbending, it's just that we haven't seen any airbender with the mentality needed to try something like that.
Air doesn't have the power boost that Waterbending has, and the body has much more water than air in it. I doubt it is possible, even by the best Airbender who ever lived.

[Sliver]

Air doesn't have the power boost that Waterbending has, and the body has much more water than air in it. I doubt it is possible, even by the best Airbender who ever lived.

The boost is only relevant for first discovery, I'd say, since afterwards, talent or genetics or whatever it is can be enough to do bloodbending.

Sure, maybe it isn't enough air to manipulate the body to the same extent, but maybe kill someone with the air in their lungs, or at least shove them around.

But it is a pretty valid point that air is the only element that wasn't seen to be able to do something different by itself. Water has bloodbending and healing. Fire also has lightning, and you can fly if you are strong enough. Earth has metal bending, even though it's using the diluted earth, plus the sensory upgrade...

Problem is, there was only one airbender around, and his training stopped at a young age. There could be a lot that he didn't know about advanced airbending that is lost and might be uncovered through avatar state, spirits or hidden scrolls.

[MLai]

Can we stop spoilering stuff from ATLA, and LOK season 1? It's tiring my finger out clicking on all the spoiler buttons.

I've never seen a protagonist start a 2nd season being less mature than she was 1st season. You've shown me it's possible Korra.
Ofc I can see why, seeing as how everything you "learned" in S1 was handed to you on a silver platter.
Mako, I don't hate you anymore. You and your "relationship" with Korra are both just too vacuous to hate. Hanger-on wallflower love interests only deserve to be ignored. He needs to get as far away from Korra as possible in order to grow as a character.

So Amon is supposed to be a psychotic liar for claiming the spirits are displeased with the way mortals are acting and are restless.
Only right after he dies the spirits are shown to become restless and displeased by the actions of mortals.
Let's see how the season develops, but for now I feel the 2 writers really missed a huge opportunity with season 1. Amon's speech about spirits could have easily segued into season 2 and made the entire world-balance thing an overarching theme of the Korra show. God how I wish Amon was a bonafide spirit bender (as in the human spirit not nature spirits).

Oh and why do I have this feeling that Airbending will be central to solving this season's troubles?
And Korra really should have lost everything but airbending in S1; it's not as if she needs anything in S2 seeing as how spirits aren't afraid of the elements anyways.
Plus, if she lost her official avatar powers and are trying to find her center, her tantrums can be seen as due to reasonable motivation, rather than just her being peevish and unlikeable.

I'm also kind of surprised they dropped the Unalok Is a Fanatic shoe quite so quickly.
Too quickly.
Up until the last minute of eps. 2, I was still saying "I know you're prolly the bad guy but so far you're the only sensible, likeable, and smart person in the whole world. Go you!"
But the next 2 eps are going to be titled Civil War 1 and 2? Looks like another Amon Debacle in the making...

All my hate aside, the show's animation is TOP NOTCH. This is just beautiful stuff. It's too bad I have to look at Korra 80% of the time, or the show would be perfect.

[Reverent-One]

Plus, if she lost her official avatar powers and are trying to find her center, her tantrums can be seen as due to reasonable motivation, rather than just her being peevish and unlikeable.

You mean because she's tired of being lied to and manipulated? That's not an unreasonable thing to tick someone off.

[MLai]

You mean because she's tired of being lied to and manipulated? That's not an unreasonable thing to tick someone off.
Who is lying to and manipulating her?
Tenzhin hasn't been manipulating her. She just blew up at him in front of other ppl because she doesn't like the way he teaches, publicly humiliating him. If I was Tenzhin I'd never teach her anything again unless she enters my front door on her knees and then crawls all the way to where I'm sitting.

Her father lied to her? About what, his life? Do you know everything about your father's life years before you were born? And once she learns it, she publicly throws her father's greatest shame back into his face without an ounce of understanding. In front of other ppl.
She really earns the award for most obnoxious protag I've seen outside of a bad Chinese soap opera.

[Hyena]

Well, her father and his whole gang
did forcefully hide her from the whole world in a small secluded fortress for, what, her entire life, claiming it's what Aang wanted. She would have never even leave if not for her escape.

[MLai]

On a separate note, I'm seeing a lot more criticism of the first season here than I'm used to seeing elsewhere. I'm seeing words like "debacle," "trainwreck" "mess" etc. getting thrown around. It wasn't that bad was it? I certainly remember enjoying it whilst it was on. It wasn't as good as its predecessor and was certainly a flawed work but I wouldn't call it bad.
I think what really miffs people is that the potential at the outset was so magnificent, only to be discarded and derailed by the writers themselves throughout the show.

The reasons those same ppl are giving LOK more chances are: (1) ATLA showed those writers can write better, and (2) S1's abruptness was due to not knowing they'd get more seasons and episodes.

[Clertar]

^ I did like LoKS1, and I think a lot of people assume it was trying to be like TLA more than it actually did. I like the changes in the setting (from being a medieval wuxia to being a 19th-century intrigue) and in the plot style (from a quest-driven story to a character-driven one).
In short: I think it succeeded at being what it was trying to be, but a chunk of the audience wanted it to try to be something else.

[Connington]

The board is also a lot harder on season 3 of the original show than most fans I know. Basically, posters in the playground have the same love/hate relationship with the show that Star Wars fans (http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=116473) have with theirs.

[Razanir]

Bloodbending came as something horrible to do, first used as a desperate means of escape and used further only by pretty evil waterbenders.

I'd say it's quite possible to force someone's body with airbending, it's just that we haven't seen any airbender with the mentality needed to try something like that.

There's also the issue that we've only seen 6 airbenders now (Aang, Tenzin, Tenzin's kids, Korra) and that for the longest time, the only one was the avatar. So for all we know, Aang could have been doing some really advanced stuff last season (airbending equivalent to lightningbending or metalbending), and we'd have taken it for normal.

[thubby]

Who is lying to and manipulating her?
Tenzhin hasn't been manipulating her. She just blew up at him in front of other ppl because she doesn't like the way he teaches, publicly humiliating him. If I was Tenzhin I'd never teach her anything again unless she enters my front door on her knees and then crawls all the way to where I'm sitting.

Her father lied to her? About what, his life? Do you know everything about your father's life years before you were born? And once she learns it, she publicly throws her father's greatest shame back into his face without an ounce of understanding. In front of other ppl.
She really earns the award for most obnoxious protag I've seen outside of a bad Chinese soap opera.

basically everyone is manipulating her just by trying to make life decisions for her. unless I screwed up my timeline she's an adult by now, and even before then she deserved a great deal more personal consideration in the things happening to her.

by keeping the fact that his uncle wanted to train her a secret tenzin manipulated her. her training at the southern water tribe was apparently something she was mislead on as well. but really, the fact that they weren't pleading their cases to her, with regards to her life is offense aplenty.

her attacks on her father and tenzin in response were petulant and stupid, but she is young and she was slighted.

[Nameless]

A group of us went over to a friend's house to watch the season 2 premiere, and I quite enjoyed it. I'm actually rather glad that they got this little story out of the way fairly quickly so that it can get on with what looks like is going to be the main plot.

Water.
More Water.
The two tribes lived together in peace, but then the Northern Water Tribe attacked, and everything changed. :smalltongue:


Honestly, I kinda saw where it was going, so if it went on for too long, I might have gotten a bit bored. Aside from that, looks pretty good so far.

On a side note, this is best frame out of the entire series.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1270852_10151881541439859_1980100003_o.jpg

Dat Korra face.

[Morty]

Remind me who A. Firebender was?

A. Firebender was a forum joke based on the suspicious number of people in season one whose family was killed by "a firebender". It was eventually concluded that all those murders have been perpetrated by the same person, by the name of Alfred Firebender, or A. Firebender for short. Ironically, A. Firebender was a waterbender.

As for the spirit-soothing, for now I'm assuming it's not a waterbending-specific technique. I won't be surprised if it turns out to be, of course, but I'm giving the writers some entirely undeserved benefit of the doubt.

[The Rose Dragon]

basically everyone is manipulating her just by trying to make life decisions for her.

It is also important to remember that, unlike Korra, most of us do not hold the fate of the world in our hands. So when if my dad hadn't told me about, say, the six months he spent in prison before I was born, it wouldn't quite have the same impact as Korra's father not telling her he might have accidentally thrown the world's spirits into disarray, leading to problems Korra would have to fix.

[Dienekes]

So saw the first episodes. I enjoyed it, for what it was. Mako had something similar to a personality, or at least he had a legitimate problem in this one and not something as ridiculous as "Oh no, two girls like me, whatever shall I do?"

Also, Bolin's girl I'm pretty sure is the girl from Parks and Recreation. Her deadpan is great in that show and I would greatly enjoy her humor if it appears more in this one. The physical contact with another female line was hilarious.

Tenzin's kids continue to be annoying, at least there was no fartbending (also, Flickerdart, there's your subschool of airbending).

I can definitely see how Korra would be angry at Tenzin and her father. I would be too. If it was best for Korra they should have explained to her why. From the looks of it, Tenzin and her dad were just being stubborn. Now, I'm certain that we'll find out why they were so stubborn at some later point but as of now, from Korra's perspective they've basically kept her locked up, unable and uninformed on how to make her own decisions.

Also, Bumi's character is great, but something about his voice irks me.

[MLai]

1. I don't see how living in the South Pole while you were a child equates to being locked up.

2. She was still not a full adult when she snuck off to Republic City, and she doesn't look much older now (6 months since the revolt).

3. Tenzhin was about to take her on a trip around the world. That's "locked up"? How about, that's "I don't want to learn from you anymore because I think I know better than you"? If you didn't know, you do not do that to a Master who you enrolled under. Huge no-no in Asian society, doesn't matter who you are. You'd be better off drowning some kittens on Youtube.

4. I don't see how listening to your father and your teacher/master while you're still a juvenile is now considered a crime against liberty. Yes she's the Avatar. A terrible Avatar who only managed to put down the last crisis through authorial fiat. It's plain that Tenzhin and her father both recognizes that, 4th wall be damned.

[Kd7sov]

MLai, consider if you will the three Avatar training regimens we've encountered so far.

Roku was told he was the Avatar at 16, which implies certain things about what's considered adulthood. Thereupon he left his home and began to travel the world, learning each of the other three bending disciplines; it is implied that for earth and water, at least, he had one adult teacher at a time.

Aang was told he was the Avatar at 12, explicitly earlier than usual. After a brief hiatus, he began traveling the world in the company of his bending instructors, all of whom were about as old as he was.

Korra proclaimed herself the Avatar - and was able to back it up - at a very young age. She was essentially confined to a compound and told explicitly that this confinement was on Aang's instruction, and her teachers were selected and brought to her by people other than herself.

Now, Aang's circumstances are clearly exceptional. But it is worth noting that both he and his predecessor traveled, and went to their teachers, whereas Korra didn't. Additionally, the new episode reveals that the explanation of her confinement was a fabrication, and Aang ordered no such thing.

And, frankly, her father is butting in where he doesn't belong in the present tense. On another forum I visit, there's a discussion going on about how much influence parents ought to have over their children's lives, and while the majority of the participants lean more toward lenience than I prefer, I doubt any of them would approve of Tonraq's behavior.

[Mutant Sheep]

Aang was told he was the Avatar at 12, explicitly earlier than usual. After a brief hiatus, he began traveling the world in the company of his bending instructors, all of whom were about as old as he was.... That was BRIEF?:smalleek:

[Reverent-One]

1. I don't see how living in the South Pole while you were a child equates to being locked up.

2. She was still not a full adult when she snuck off to Republic City, and she doesn't look much older now (6 months since the revolt).

3. Tenzhin was about to take her on a trip around the world. That's "locked up"? How about, that's "I don't want to learn from you anymore because I think I know better than you"? If you didn't know, you do not do that to a Master who you enrolled under. Huge no-no in Asian society, doesn't matter who you are. You'd be better off drowning some kittens on Youtube.

4. I don't see how listening to your father and your teacher/master while you're still a juvenile is now considered a crime against liberty. Yes she's the Avatar. A terrible Avatar who only managed to put down the last crisis through authorial fiat. It's plain that Tenzhin and her father both recognizes that, 4th wall be damned.

Mako's a police officer, Asami's running a company, and they're about the same age as Korra. True their parents are both dead, but it still shows that they're not really juveniles in the eyes of society anymore. Throw in that Avatar generally goes off and travels the world at 16 as Kd7sov mentioned and it doesn't look like she's really at the age where a parent has absolute veto. And honestly, even if they did, she's still old enough to deserve an answer more than "Because I said so, that's why", and many people would have issues with being told just that. Despite going about it in a bit of a hotheaded sort of way, her reasoning for wanting Unalaq to train her is pretty good given what he's told her and demonstrated.

[HamHam]

Tenzen and her father are clearly in the wrong.

But Korra is a completely unlikable harpy.

That's why I'm rooting for the spirits.

[t209]

Tenzen and her father are clearly in the wrong.

But Korra is a completely unlikable harpy.

That's why I'm rooting for the spirits.
Then again, it's just the beginning. If it's bad, I will go join the equestrian club on this forum.

[DrBurr]

Does the Avatar really get to travel the world at 16? Ignoring Aang who had to finish his training in a year our only example of what the Avatar's training is, is Roku. Who actually was sent to the Southern Air Temple by the Fire Sages after he turned 16, he didn't wander the world searching for an Airbender. He then spent years mastering the art of Airbending before going to find a Waterbending master, at that point he was already in his 20s and an adult. So the journey doesn't really start until you're much older.

Korra's training is incredibly unorthodox being trained from childhood in the arts of water, earth and fire bending. Unless she wanted to wait until she was 16 to start learning to earthbend having a journey was not going to be a logical option, and in that event then her Earthbending Master would likely of been selected by the White Lotus seeing as they have replaced the religious sect that typically finds the avatar.

Anyways the episodes were decent, Korra continues to be a pain, the villain was obvious, and the portal quest resolved far to quickly. Best part was definitely vacation Tenzin.

[Metahuman1]

So, couple of thoughts.

First: While I get that in eastern culture your suppose to have respect for your elders and parents and teachers and Korra's being more of a hot head then would generally fly, she does have a valid reason to be upset.

Consider she's been lied to and manipulated based on the trust and respect these people had with her, only to find out that they've not only been lying, but have very strong evidence place in front of her that the lying nearly cost the world republic city, maybe even bending, and came very close to costing her most of her own bending and ability to BE the avatar, which because of how she was raised her entire identity is built on cause that's almost all anyone ever talked to her about growing up in the white lotus compound that she was lied to to keep her in in the first place, and now once again appears to be causing a problem that the instruction she got form that compound and it's teachers once again can't fix, but here's someone who there saying stay away form because we said so and yet he's showing that he has an answer.


Now consider that there secluding her for so long made her easy for Tarrlok, Amon, and now her uncle, to manipulate. Also consider that in many easter schools of though, there are no bad students, only bad teachers, and that she might have picked better teachers if left to her own devices for at least some of that. Consider she doesn't know metal bending or extra sense even though Aang learned at least the latter one. Consider that even though Katara didn't approve of blood bending, she never taught her a counter measer knowing that it was something bad people had used in the past and might use again. Consider she doesn't know lighting and perhaps doesn't know how to redirect it either. But she's suppose to be a master of these three elements. I contend if she'd been allowed to try and find her own teachers before this, buy the time she showed up in republic city, she might well have learned all of that, and image how much harder a time Amon and Tarrlock would have had then? Hell, she might have even found another Guru to help her learn about the Avatar state and her past lives, making the uncles offer largely irrelevant.




Now, here's a theory I'd also like to submit about the uncle.

The Barbarians attacked while Korra's dad was gone, and thus had a chance to do enough damage to make him more angry then thoughful. Then they just happen to know to retiret to the forest after doing this. And after there dealt with, "Spirits" show up that no one excet the uncle can stop, and he just happens to know it was Korra's dads fualt so that there dad can Banish Korra's father and make him the new norther chief.


Cut to current time frame, spirits are attacking, and people whom by now everyone with an Intelligence network, like say the leader of the northern tribe, know that korra's having info kept form her. So he shows up, tells her, making her mentors look bad, and offers to teach her a skill only he has, and spirits keep attacking and overwhelming everyone except him, and he's always there to stop them going any further, and he's just able to send her on a mission on her own where she feels like she worked for it and is suddenly successful anyway with out actually manipulation as a factor.


That's all very conviniant for him right before he brings in war ships.

So here's my theory, he's not actually spirit bending, there are no angry spirits. He's using all kinds of tricks with water bending and assorted ways water reflects light, similar to the way swamp guy in season 2 of the original show was plant bending to make people think there was a monster, and using that to attack ships and manufacture a problem he could teach the avatar to solve to get her trust and approval and break her bonds with the current power figures in the south pole, so he could invade with little to no valid opposition and impose his will.

[Grey Watcher]

So, couple of thoughts.

First: While I get that in eastern culture your suppose to have respect for your elders and parents and teachers and Korra's being more of a hot head then would generally fly, she does have a valid reason to be upset.

Consider she's been lied to and manipulated based on the trust and respect these people had with her, only to find out that they've not only been lying, but have very strong evidence place in front of her that the lying nearly cost the world republic city, maybe even bending, and came very close to costing her most of her own bending and ability to BE the avatar, which because of how she was raised her entire identity is built on cause that's almost all anyone ever talked to her about growing up in the white lotus compound that she was lied to to keep her in in the first place, and now once again appears to be causing a problem that the instruction she got form that compound and it's teachers once again can't fix, but here's someone who there saying stay away form because we said so and yet he's showing that he has an answer.


Now consider that there secluding her for so long made her easy for Tarrlok, Amon, and now her uncle, to manipulate. Also consider that in many easter schools of though, there are no bad students, only bad teachers, and that she might have picked better teachers if left to her own devices for at least some of that. Consider she doesn't know metal bending or extra sense even though Aang learned at least the latter one. Consider that even though Katara didn't approve of blood bending, she never taught her a counter measer knowing that it was something bad people had used in the past and might use again. Consider she doesn't know lighting and perhaps doesn't know how to redirect it either. But she's suppose to be a master of these three elements. I contend if she'd been allowed to try and find her own teachers before this, buy the time she showed up in republic city, she might well have learned all of that, and image how much harder a time Amon and Tarrlock would have had then? Hell, she might have even found another Guru to help her learn about the Avatar state and her past lives, making the uncles offer largely irrelevant.




Now, here's a theory I'd also like to submit about the uncle.

The Barbarians attacked while Korra's dad was gone, and thus had a chance to do enough damage to make him more angry then thoughful. Then they just happen to know to retiret to the forest after doing this. And after there dealt with, "Spirits" show up that no one excet the uncle can stop, and he just happens to know it was Korra's dads fualt so that there dad can Banish Korra's father and make him the new norther chief.


Cut to current time frame, spirits are attacking, and people whom by now everyone with an Intelligence network, like say the leader of the northern tribe, know that korra's having info kept form her. So he shows up, tells her, making her mentors look bad, and offers to teach her a skill only he has, and spirits keep attacking and overwhelming everyone except him, and he's always there to stop them going any further, and he's just able to send her on a mission on her own where she feels like she worked for it and is suddenly successful anyway with out actually manipulation as a factor.


That's all very conviniant for him right before he brings in war ships.

So here's my theory, he's not actually spirit bending, there are no angry spirits. He's using all kinds of tricks with water bending and assorted ways water reflects light, similar to the way swamp guy in season 2 of the original show was plant bending to make people think there was a monster, and using that to attack ships and manufacture a problem he could teach the avatar to solve to get her trust and approval and break her bonds with the current power figures in the south pole, so he could invade with little to no valid opposition and impose his will.

I don't really want this theory to be true. It does make sense, but I don't want it. I mean, in the past, you dealt with spirits by, well, dealing with them. Hei Bai, for example, was calmed by being reminded that his forest could regrow, not banished via weird bending. So I think what Uncle-lok is doing isn't really helping. Depending on just what's happening to the spirit (banished back to the spirit world? outright destroyed? :smalleek: ) he might even be making the problem much, much worse.

I guess I just feel like the whole The Spirits Are a Lie theory just feels like Amon and his phoney-baloney Spiritbending all over again.

[Morty]

I guess I just feel like the whole The Spirits Are a Lie theory just feels like Amon and his phoney-baloney Spiritbending all over again.

Yeah, seriously. They already had one villain turn out to be a liar who made up his agenda and his powers. That's more than enough.

[John Cribati]

Actually… it makes sense that Waterbending can do the spirit-cleansing thing. Because while the other three bending styles were learned from animals, the first waterbender was the Moon Spirit. As in, humanity learned the art directly from a spirit. And it explains healing as well!

[Metahuman1]

TTrue, but on the flip side, if it's not pure proverbial smoke and mirrors, this is like the forth super sub school of bending for water vs. 2 for earth, arguably two for fire and thus far none for air. Besides, spirits are really suppose to be the domain of the avatar, and if we keeps seeing the avatars domains go away to others, pretty soon were gonna have her fighting a bad guy who can bend all four elements and go into a super state were they call on all there past lives!


And personally, I like the theme that the bad guys are not gonna be genuine. Cause let's face it, as time has moved on, we've seen fewer and fewer of history's villains be straight up in your face about what there doing and why. From that perspective, it makes sense that in a world that's evolving along a time line and that has a pattern of people who'd oppose the avatar loosing outright that a villian would make extensive efforts to make his evil plan seem and sound and look like the right thing to do, thus making the avatar an ally or at least a neutral party rather then an opposing force.

[Pokonic]

Actually… it makes sense that Waterbending can do the spirit-cleansing thing. Because while the other three bending styles were learned from animals, the first waterbender was the Moon Spirit. As in, humanity learned the art directly from a spirit. And it explains healing as well!

Well, the healing is more or less because of humans being mostly water, I would think. Also, it's probably possible for other benders to cleans spirits, but it just so happens that a lot older mystical side of bending is confined to a few places now, one of which happens to be the Northern water tribe.

[Ramza00]

There are two different issues going on at once, and both are problems.

Korra is being talked to like she is a child. She is no longer a child, she is now an adult (Korra is probably 18, Korra was born some time in 153 ASC, Episode 2 occurs on the Winter Solstice of the year 171 ASC so probably December 21, 171). Because Korra is no longer a child, as well as being a fully realized Avatar who has expertise in all four elements and has realized the avatar state where she is in control of her actions, she shouldn’t be ordered or bossed around. Tenzin, her father Tonraq, and her Unalaq have opinions on what Korra should do. Because Korra is an adult these other people need to realize that their opinions are merely opinions and they can’t order Korra what to do, they can consult but in the end it is Korra’s decision to make. Korra is searching for advice and consul (she is continuously asking Mako on what she should do) but she wants advice not orders. Currently Tenzin and Tonraq (her father) are not giving her advice they are merely stating their opinions and not explaining why they have such opinions.

Combine that with betrayals of trust
1) Her father Tonraq hiding his history of his banishment
2) Her father Tonraq manipulating the truth of her childhood, that she was locked up in the white lotus “sanctuary”/”prison” for her protection, she was continuously being lied to saying it was Aang’s idea (I understand why Tonraq did this she was a child and needed protection, but this is not the case anymore, and the lying breaches trust).
3) Tenzin originally making the same “mistake” of “locking” her up on Airbender Island (Season 1 Episode 2 of Legend of Korra)
As well as the stress of being completely ineffective against the spirits in Season 2 Episode 1, no wonder Tenzin and Tonraq are on Korra’s **** list.

------------------------------------------

The second issue is Tenzin doesn’t know how to teach Korra. I love Tenzin he is my favorite character in the Legend of Korra series, but to be honest Tenzin is a horrible teacher. Tenzin has good ideas and a kind heart, but he doesn’t know how to be a teacher yet. Tenzin has only taught his children, the oldest of which is only 10/11 (Jinora born in 160 ASC).

Tenzin and Korra are different personalities, and many times they talk pass each other.

To Korra, her perception of herself is about aptitude and ability, Korra takes pride in her skills as a bender and it is foundational to herself image. Korra feels best when she improves her skills as a bender. Korra felt her worse when she fails to airbend, she feels she is a failure and takes that message to her core, it is not merely she is incapable of airbending in season 1 no Korra in her mind is a FAILURE for she couldn’t even do a single puff of air. Tarrlock calling her a "half-baked Avatar in training" was probably the worse insult to Korra possible for the negative thoughts of Korra actually believed that in her core, thus Korra felt like she was stab in the stomach.

It was through losing her entire self-image of herself, her self-image of aptitude and ability, by removing Korra’s bending, Korra went to her lowest point. By going to her lowest point Korra was able to start over, start from scratch, viewing herself from a fresh new angle instead of relying on the years of opinion she had of herself. Going to a physical cliffside to cry and reflect is the same internal process that monks do when they meditate (monks learn through years of practice to separate their conscious from the world around them and be at one in their mind, and through the state of meditation a monk is able to reflect).

Now many viewers hate how quickly Korra regain her bending in the season finale of season 1, for many viewers don’t like how “easy” it was for Korra to awaken her spirituality. They don’t like how it was easy and self-contained it was, like a present with a bow on top from the story teller perspective. I personally like how this ended for to me it was a reflection of Korra character. Ironically Amon took the one thing that was most important to Korra, the one thing that would cause Korra to actually open up and be spiritual. If Amon took the bending away from another person, for example if Amon took the bending away from Aang in book 1 or book 2 (of the legend of aang), it would not awaken such a spiritual crisis in Aang that it did cause in Korra. Ironically, it was the Amon, the villain, who set the chain of events for the hero to become more powerful (I think the trope is called, “Nice Job Fixing It, Villain”)

Korra snapped once again (and is stressed) in Season 2 Episode 1 by getting her ass kicked by the spirits. No matter her skills, no matter her aptitude and ability her skills were useless against the dark spirit. Tenzin was no better than Korra, only Unalaq showed any skill in fighting the dark spirit. In such a situation Korra who prizes skill would look at Unalaq in an improved manner, combine that with the betrayals of her Father it is no wonder that Korra acted brashly and ended her relationship with Tenzin in probably one of the worse ways possible.

------------------------------------------

Tenzin unlike Korra, takes pride in being calm, rational, patient, and serious. While Korra seeks aptitude, Tenzin seeks knowledge by contrast. Korra wants to learn Airbender techniques, Tenzin wants Korra to learn the philosophy of airbending, to become deeper and more of aware of the unique outlook airbending has on the world around them. To Tenzin being the avatar is not being a Virtuoso a mere human who has mastered all four elements; instead being the Avatar is being a person who is a collection of four unique cultures, four different viewpoints of the world around them, a woman who can see everything from all viewpoints, a sage, literally a bridge between the different worlds and different cultures by achieving the mastery of mind.

Problem is Tenzin is a horrible teacher, he doesn’t know how to communicate his ideas or philosophies to someone who views the world completely different from his viewpoint. Tenzin needs to realize the problem is with him the teacher and not the student.

If Tenzin steps back for a moment and realizes that Korra is an adult, and should be treated differently than his five year old, seven year old, and ten year old; it would do wonders for their relationship. Korra is now old and mature enough that she doesn’t need to be ordered, and that Korra is capable of making her own decisions and setting up her own boundaries. What Korra needs now is not orders but instead guidance. Tenzin should shift to suggestions on what Korra should do, he should do more explaining of his rational, and try to communicate on how being more aware of different viewpoints and cultures can help Korra be a better Avatar. Tenzin is the type of person that finds fulfillment when his children and students when they have mastered their abilities and become independent. By switching to a different mode of communication with Korra I believe Tenzin would be more effective as a teacher as well as receive a greater fulfillment with teaching.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

J.K. Simmons, the voice of Cave Johnson, actually does Tenzin.

Th--wh.

What.

WHAT.

I CAN TOTALLY HEAR IT NOW OH MY GOSH.

[Ramza00]

J.K. Simmons, the voice of Cave Johnson, actually does Tenzin.

Also
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5javv0glz1qloo1ro1_500.png

[Grey Watcher]

Th--wh.

What.

WHAT.

I CAN TOTALLY HEAR IT NOW OH MY GOSH.


Also
<picture snipped>

Please don't start drawing comparison's between Tenzin and Simmons' other roles. Because Simmons was in Oz, and I think that's breaking my brain. :smalleek:

[MLai]

Additionally, the new episode reveals that the explanation of her confinement was a fabrication, and Aang ordered no such thing.
I've going to have to revisit that scene, because that sounds like drama for drama's sake. It certainly didn't come up in S1, which means it wasn't like a last-minute big lie to placate Korra when she was 16 and about to leave home.
So how was she wronged? "You told me Aang commanded this all my life. And as a result, since the age of 3, I've been forced to stay with my parents and have masters come from all over the world to teach me bending. I was denied the opportunity to run away from home and travel the world as a homeless orphan! And as soon as I did run away at age 16, I was punished by learning airbending from the last airbender and staying on his private island. I was so betrayed!"
What this sounds like to me is a princess who has had a silver spoon all her life, and now publicly shaming both her father and her master because they disagree.
She's a teenager; they will disagree. She may even be right. But she crosses the line (maybe not in 2013 USA but a father won't be happy being publicly humiliated by his daughter especially in front of estranged family, no matter what).
In this scenario, it doesn't matter if the father and the master are wrong is what I'm saying. Watch any kung fu movie and tell me who's usually the character who defies the master (for good) because he "knows better." It's usually the villain, or the wayward character who later earns redemption through sacrifice.

So, couple of thoughts.
So here's my theory, he's not actually spirit bending, there are no angry spirits. He's using all kinds of tricks with water bending and assorted ways water reflects light.
Oh lordy I hope not. The Amon arc was the most frustrating assassination of an awesome social theme I've ever seen.

Now many viewers hate how quickly Korra regain her bending in the season finale of season 1, for many viewers don’t like how “easy” it was for Korra to awaken her spirituality. They don’t like how it was easy and self-contained it was, like a present with a bow on top from the story teller perspective. I personally like how this ended for to me it was a reflection of Korra character. Ironically Amon took the one thing that was most important to Korra, the one thing that would cause Korra to actually open up and be spiritual.
Sounds great in theory. Unfortunately as S2 opens we see that Korra has learned NOTHING. She seems even less spiritual than S1, if that can be possible. Conclusion: She learned nothing, as we all feared, because her "enlightenment" was handed to her with a bow on top.

Problem is Tenzin is a horrible teacher, he doesn’t know how to communicate his ideas or philosophies to someone who views the world completely different from his viewpoint. Tenzin needs to realize the problem is with him the teacher and not the student..
Korra is also a horrible student. This isn't shown just with her interaction with Tenzin, but with all her past teachers at the compound. She is a thuggish little tyrant-emperor who has no respect for anyone or anything, and treats her masters as disposable tools. She treats Avatarhood itself as a tool. Everything that doesn't fall in with her narrow worldview is first treated as an enemy or obstacle, before all else.
Again, this is to be expected because she's been handed everything to her all her life, and in S1.

[Juntao112]

So how was she wronged? "You told me Aang commanded this all my life. And as a result, since the age of 3, I've been forced to stay with my parents and have masters come from all over the world to teach me bending. I was denied the opportunity to run away from home and travel the world as a homeless orphan! And as soon as I did run away at age 16, I was punished by learning airbending from the last airbender and staying on his private island. I was so betrayed!"

Counterpoint: Keeping her isolated prevented her from learning the Power of Friendship. Children (in real life) who are raised without friends of their own age that they can play with tend to develop into poorly socialized teenagers with a wide range of issues.

Like Korra.

Actually, the White Lotus compound reminds me of homeschoolers in the US who try to keep their children out of the educational system (both public and private) to ensure that the parents have a great deal of control over the curriculum (often for religious reasons). Unfortunately, a lot of these people tend to teach their children poorly, which results in them not knowing much about the world. These children don't necessarily associate with others their age either, which further limits the child's ability to function.

Of course, sometimes the kid wants to go into public school to get a better education, at which point the parents fight against it and call the child "ungrateful" for the privileges and opportunites that have been given to him...

[Jayngfet]

Counterpoint: Keeping her isolated prevented her from learning the Power of Friendship. Children (in real life) who are raised without friends of their own age that they can play with tend to develop into poorly socialized teenagers with a wide range of issues.

Like Korra.

Actually, the White Lotus compound reminds me of homeschoolers in the US who try to keep their children out of the educational system (both public and private) to ensure that the parents have a great deal of control over the curriculum (often for religious reasons). Unfortunately, a lot of these people tend to teach their children poorly, which results in them not knowing much about the world. These children don't necessarily associate with others their age either, which further limits the child's ability to function.

Of course, sometimes the kid wants to go into public school to get a better education, at which point the parents fight against it and call the child "ungrateful" for the privileges and opportunites that have been given to him...

This. No matter what way you slice it, it was made clear that Korra was worse off from living in a compound. She had no idea what was going on in republic city and no understanding of the equalist issue when she arrived. When she actually left home she was able to take care of food, barely, but otherwise had no idea how to take care of herself. Hell, the Everstorm happened long before her birth and was in her own friggin back yard and she had no idea what the problem was because nobody actually told her about the outside world. Korra is supposed to be a mediator between major forces and she obviously has no real understanding of how the world works compared to literally anybody else her age. She's been kept in the dark about anything that wasn't convenient for her mentors at that moment and had no ability to explore otherwise. When you're raising such a long lived and major figure and wind up with someone who can't even handle themself alone to that level it's a serious flaw and a sign that you screwed up at a fundamental level.

Aangs roaming may have been less focused, but it gave him perspective on everyone in the world he met. In the time it took him between unfreezing to beating the Fire Nation he'd become far more worldly than Korra was several years older, and he was probably more sheltered when he started out. Korra is probably a better bender, but she's a worse avatar and that's the only thing she's actually supposed to do and be.

[Gettles]

Aangs roaming may have been less focused, but it gave him perspective on everyone in the world he met. In the time it took him between unfreezing to beating the Fire Nation he'd become far more worldly than Korra was several years older, and he was probably more sheltered when he started out. Korra is probably a better bender, but she's a worse avatar and that's the only thing she's actually supposed to do and be.



Actually Korra is was more isolated than pre-ice cube Aang. Aang still knew people his age. He was still able to see areas outside of the air temples(he Bumi in Earth Nation, he mentioned having a friend in the Fire Nation).

[Juntao112]

Aang was able to interact with various cultures, so even as the Avatar, he was still relatively normal. Korra could not even interact with her own culture, and boy does it show.

Socialization is more than just academic knowledge of, say, where Republic City is. Socialization is about the ability to interact and function as a member of society, which you can only learn from being a member of society.

In the US, homeschooled children are often socialized with other homeschooled children (from, say, church or a homeschool association). This works fine until the point where these children have to go to college (well, if they go to college) and have to deal with the real world, at which point they realize that they are foreigners in their own country.

The parents aren't cruel or negligent. They often just have the best interests of the children at heart. However, they don't understand how you can mis-socialize a child, and the full extent of the problems that can develop as a result of mis-socialization.

[Silverraptor]

On a side note, this is best frame out of the entire series.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1270852_10151881541439859_1980100003_o.jpg

Dat Korra face.

Agreed. Happy cat faces are always adorable.:smallbiggrin:

[Hopeless]

So just for the sake of throwing oil on the fire... what Korra and Tenzin needs...
They encounter a young girl whose very weird in behaviour and mannerisms whose apparently orphaned but is able to wield all of the elements but at a far lower scale than Korra.

We have her interacting with Korra, her friends, Tenzin and his family and we see Korra start developing by teaching this very unusual prodigy evolving from rival to seeing her as a much loved sibling.

The resulting crisis with the spirits forces Korra to desperately try to find a way to resolve the situation eventually discovering her little sister is a natural spirit bender who begins to train Korra in the one talent she doesn't have and in the climatic battle to save her world, Korra's little sister sacrifices herself to give Korra time enough to succeed.

Don't read if you hated the above!:smallsmile:
They grieve following the end of this conflict at which point Korra is back to where she was end of season 1 having felt she had failed, Aang approaches her and tries to console her at which point she asks why he restored her bending to which she's told someone else asked him to do so and when she asks him who he tells her the FIRST AVATAR did to which we see a flash as all of the previous avatars are rushed through only allowing time to see those we know of and then stops at the first which we discover was Korra's little sister who accomplished the task of becoming the First Avatar by travelling to another era where she could learn from another Avatar in similar straits to her...

Now that would be a kicker of an end to season 2 wouldn't it?

[MLai]

I think you're projecting American homeschooling flaws onto Korra, and blaming all her character flaws on her caretakers. I see it as her own character flaw.

Yes she's a naive country bumpkin, but that's not at all what makes her unlikeable. What it is is that she's self-entitled and thuggish, and I don't see how that would change just by giving her peers of her own age to bully. Because that's what would end up happening, because she's the Avatar, she's stronger than any of them, and she's going to command the attention of any teacher.

[Juntao112]

I think you're projecting American homeschooling flaws onto Korra, and blaming all her character flaws on her caretakers. I see it as her own character flaw.
Forgive me, I saw an interesting parallel between something I know happens and something I saw on TV.


Yes she's a naive country bumpkin, but that's not at all what makes her unlikeable. What it is is that she's self-entitled and thuggish, and I don't see how that would change just by giving her peers of her own age to bully.

Ah, but here's the question: how do children become thuggish, self-entitled bullies? Are they born that way, or is it the result of their upbringing? And if it is a result of their upbringing... who brought them up?

Blaming a child for turning out poorly due to bad child rearing is like blaming your houseplant for wilting when you've forgotten to water it for two months. While its entirely possible the plant sucked to begin with, you should have probably watered it with more regularity. At least then, you'd be able to tell if it was the plant's fault or not.


Because that's what would end up happening, because she's the Avatar, she's stronger than any of them, and she's going to command the attention of any teacher.

Some people are born with flaws like sociopathy (Azula), which are tremendously difficult to treat. Other people have disorders like autism, which can be treated with varying degrees of success. (Indeed, there are a lot of high functioning autistics out there). Other people are just poorly socialized and don't understand how to relate to others. There's a wide range of possibilities, and its hard to speculate what would or would not have happened had things been different.

[Ramza00]

Korra is also a horrible student. This isn't shown just with her interaction with Tenzin, but with all her past teachers at the compound. She is a thuggish little tyrant-emperor who has no respect for anyone or anything, and treats her masters as disposable tools. She treats Avatarhood itself as a tool. Everything that doesn't fall in with her narrow worldview is first treated as an enemy or obstacle, before all else.
Again, this is to be expected because she's been handed everything to her all her life, and in S1.

Certain personalities are more likely to have certain flaws. Korra has many flaws.

It is world experiences and our teachers and friends that help us grow as people and overcome those flaws and lessen those impacts. Korra has been locked away in southern water tribe compound her entire life (imagine staying on 1 square mile for your first 16 years of her life) she has limited experience with people for those people had to come to her, and thus she has limited world experiences.

It is Korra responsibility now as an adult to grow as person, Korra had no control over her upbringing as a child, and that childhood shapes the very young adult she is today.


Yes she's a naive country bumpkin, but that's not at all what makes her unlikeable. What it is is that she's self-entitled and thuggish, and I don't see how that would change just by giving her peers of her own age to bully. Because that's what would end up happening, because she's the Avatar, she's stronger than any of them, and she's going to command the attention of any teacher.

So instead you give Korra a situation where she has limited aspects with people. The only time you bring new people in is to to teach her fighting. You also state the only time Korra is successful is when she beats said teachers in fighting.

And you wonder why Korra sees the world as things she has to overcome? (Just like the teachers she had to beat as a child)

As for being self entitled the only reason why she was locked up for 17 years was that she was the avatar, the only interaction she has with people is due to her being the avatar, etc. You are reinforcing that she is different than other people, and you never give her a chance to just merely be her, Korra never had the chance to merely be Korra.

Children her own age, even if she is stronger than them in bending, would remind Korra of her own humanity.

--------------------

Put another way, would Clark Kent be the Superman we know if he didn't grow up in Kansas and was raised by the Kents? How would he be different if he was instead locked up underground in a facility where he is told he will be the savior of this world (a world he never met)? He then decides to escape for he is told that his final teacher will not come to him, and he will not be ready till he has been trained by said teacher.

[Grey Watcher]

So just for the sake of throwing oil on the fire... what Korra and Tenzin needs...
They encounter a young girl whose very weird in behaviour and mannerisms whose apparently orphaned but is able to wield all of the elements but at a far lower scale than Korra.

We have her interacting with Korra, her friends, Tenzin and his family and we see Korra start developing by teaching this very unusual prodigy evolving from rival to seeing her as a much loved sibling.

The resulting crisis with the spirits forces Korra to desperately try to find a way to resolve the situation eventually discovering her little sister is a natural spirit bender who begins to train Korra in the one talent she doesn't have and in the climatic battle to save her world, Korra's little sister sacrifices herself to give Korra time enough to succeed.

Don't read if you hated the above!:smallsmile:
They grieve following the end of this conflict at which point Korra is back to where she was end of season 1 having felt she had failed, Aang approaches her and tries to console her at which point she asks why he restored her bending to which she's told someone else asked him to do so and when she asks him who he tells her the FIRST AVATAR did to which we see a flash as all of the previous avatars are rushed through only allowing time to see those we know of and then stops at the first which we discover was Korra's little sister who accomplished the task of becoming the First Avatar by travelling to another era where she could learn from another Avatar in similar straits to her...

Now that would be a kicker of an end to season 2 wouldn't it?

I could've sworn there was a trailer promising that this season would teach us about the very first Avatar, and that the screenshots indicated he was a guy, and never showed him outside the context of his own era (ie there are huts with large leaves for roofs in the background).

Also, it's purely a matter of taste, but stable time loops are very difficult to pull off in any kind of satisfactory way.


...

Put another way, would Clark Kent be the Superman we know if he didn't grow up in Kansas and was raised by the Kents? How would he be different if he was instead locked up underground in a facility where he is told he will be the savior of this world (a world he never met)? He then decides to escape for he is told that his final teacher will not come to him, and he will not be ready till he has been trained by said teacher.

Does this board need a Godwin's Law variant for Superman? Because I feel like he tends to come up. A lot.

[Sith_Happens]

Is Mako's voice different? It sounds different to me. Maybe it's just been a while.

Also, poor Bolin. He's bitten off way more than he can chew.

[Reverent-One]

Yes she's a naive country bumpkin, but that's not at all what makes her unlikeable. What it is is that she's self-entitled and thuggish, and I don't see how that would change just by giving her peers of her own age to bully. Because that's what would end up happening, because she's the Avatar, she's stronger than any of them, and she's going to command the attention of any teacher.

Yeah, because look at all that bullying she did to Mako, Bolin, and the airbending kids in season 1...oh wait. :smalltongue:



In the US, homeschooled children are often socialized with other homeschooled children (from, say, church or a homeschool association). This works fine until the point where these children have to go to college (well, if they go to college) and have to deal with the real world, at which point they realize that they are foreigners in their own country.

The parents aren't cruel or negligent. They often just have the best interests of the children at heart. However, they don't understand how you can mis-socialize a child, and the full extent of the problems that can develop as a result of mis-socialization.

I hope you're unintentionally generalizing all homeschooled kids. True, some of them develop social issues, but the same can be said of kids that go to public school.

[Juntao112]

Unfortunately, due to lack of regulation and reporting, its hard to know exactly what the extent of the issue is.

While I would not be so bold as to say that homeschooling necessarily creates a bubble that mis-socializes kids, the bubble doesn't exist without homeschooling.

If the parents know what they're doing, the kids will be fine, but my faith in the average American is not terribly high.

[Reverent-One]

Unfortunately, due to lack of regulation and reporting, its hard to know exactly what the extent of the issue is.

While I would not be so bold as to say that homeschooling necessarily creates a bubble that mis-socializes kids, the bubble doesn't exist without homeschooling.

Perhaps, but like I said, public school has it's own mis-socializing capability, maybe a different sort of bubble, but it's still there.

[Ravian]

Put another way, would Clark Kent be the Superman we know if he didn't grow up in Kansas and was raised by the Kents? How would he be different if he was instead locked up underground in a facility where he is told he will be the savior of this world (a world he never met)? He then decides to escape for he is told that his final teacher will not come to him, and he will not be ready till he has been trained by said teacher.

Interesting you should bring that up, there is a comic series called Ultimate Power where an Expy of Superman (Superpowerful alien who falls from the sky as a baby) named Hyperion. Instead of being raised by an old farming couple though he's almost immediately taken by the government and raised in an artificial household reminiscent to the 50's. He has agents trained to act like his parents (who are intensely terrified of him I might add), all contact he has with the outside world is filtered (mainly through what television programs he's shown) and his worldview slowly influenced to be of the stereotypical Truth, Justice and the American way.

The Result?

Once he's released as America's new superhero his worldview quickly disintegrates as he sees that modern day America looks nothing like he's been told it is. Worse he turns on the agency that raised him when he discovers his life is a lie. It's not precisely like Korra's upbringing, but you can definitely see parallels when you have super-powerful individuals who are expected to protect a world that they know nothing (or a flawed idea) about.

[t209]

Also
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5javv0glz1qloo1ro1_500.png
Different voice actor but the business man remind me of cave johnson and Howard Stark. I wonder if he's invested in lemons.

[BRC]

Korra probably wasn't totally isolated. Her father seems protective, but not neccessarily paranoid, it's not like the southern water tribe was crawling with assassins or anything. Besides, Katara was running the show at least in part, so it's not like they would have locked her away.

So she probably had friends, played with the other children, ect. That said, they wouldn't have been deep friendships. At the end of the day they would go to their homes and she would go to her giant White Lotus compound. Every interaction she had would have been influenced by the fact that she was the Avatar. She dosn't seem particuarly maladjusted or anything. She's comfortable around other people. That said, she is a product of her upbringing.

Korra is confrontational. It's been generations since anybody has trained an Avatar the traditional way (Aang's "On-the-Run with friends" training was definetly abnormal). The Avatar everybody is going to be thinking about was Aang, and while Aang was spiritual and diplomatic, his training was focused around making him a warrior. So Korra basically spent the majority of her life being trained as a warrior. Her life was all about tests of strength, speed, and skill. This is basically how she approaches every situation, "What do I punch and/or Bend to solve this problem". When she was doing airbending Training she was shown walking through Airbending forms. Bending Forms would be somthing she was very familiar with. She couldn't meditate or get into the mindset of an airbender, but she could practice forms for hours on end. That said, she gets confused and frusterated everytime she encounters a problem not solved with action.

Korra is Spoiled. This too can be traced to her upbrining. She gets frustrated easily when she dosn't instantly master somthing. She expects people to defer to her, for things to go her way, which makes sense. She's somthing of a bending Prodigy, bending three elements before most normal benders manifest their ability at all. She then spent her life with those skills being improved and put to the test. She's defined her life by her bending skills, so when anything NOT solved by bending at it comes up she gets frustrated.

Korra is confused. This is fairly standard teenage stuff made worse by her unique situation. She knows she's the Avatar, but she dosn't really know what that means. She's supposed to keep balance in the world, but the world seems pretty balanced already. She's an adult (or getting close enough to think of herself as one), she mastered the four elements (or has access to them anyway), she put down the Equalist rebellion, restored the Bending to those Amon had de-bent, ect. However Tenzin and her father are still treating her like a child. Meanwhile, look at her friends. Mako has joined the police force and is doing cool motorcycle stunts while spouting one-liners. Bolin is leading his own Pro-Bending team, yes they suck, but he's leading it. Asami has taken over Future Industries and is trying to bring it back. They don't discuss it much in the show, but Asami's task is huge. In addition to the PR disaster that was "Future Industries financed/supplied the Equalists", the company's organization was almost certainly full of Equalists and Equalist sympathizers. A decent portion of her workers, managers, engineers, and executives are probably in jail, with concentrations increasing the higher you go in the organization (Sato couldn't have done what he did without highly-placed sympathizers. Hidden airfields don't build themselves after all). Not to mention all the money Sato spend on the rebellion, and the assets the police probably seized. And yet Asami has taken it upon herself to bring this company back. That's no mean feat.
Meanwhile Korra restored bending and...is now back learning to be an Airbender for no particular reason. She's the Avatar, so it's her job to master the four elements, but it isn't like she sees any pressing crisis (Then again, she didn't before the Equalists). She's going to master airbending and...then what? All she knows how to do is learn bending and fight. When there is no more bending to learn, and nobody to fight, what it she going to do?

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Different voice actor but the business man remind me of cave johnson and Howard Stark. I wonder if he's invested in lemons.
I kept thinking of Howard Hughes, and am hoping to see a Spruce Goose moment.

[John Cribati]

Besides, Katara was running the show at least in part, so it's not like they would have locked her away. Except she literally says that they keep her locked up like a prisoner. Which may be exaggeration, but I'm inclined to believe her what with there being a giant gate she had to ask permission to go through.

[lord_khaine]

Aangs roaming may have been less focused, but it gave him perspective on everyone in the world he met. In the time it took him between unfreezing to beating the Fire Nation he'd become far more worldly than Korra was several years older, and he was probably more sheltered when he started out. Korra is probably a better bender, but she's a worse avatar and that's the only thing she's actually supposed to do and be.

I dont really know, from the actualy feats of bending Ang seems to be a lot better at bending than Korra, as early inside the serie as book 2.


Also, poor Bolin. He's bitten off way more than he can chew.

I allways thought the poor guy deserved to end up with Asami :smalltongue:

[BRC]

Except she literally says that they keep her locked up like a prisoner. Which may be exaggeration, but I'm inclined to believe her what with there being a giant gate she had to ask permission to go through.

Permission she got without question. That seemed more like a "Let me tell you where I'm going" than "I need permission to leave". She was certainly isolated, but I wouldn't say they were intentionally isolating her, just being overprotective.
They WERE keeping her in the Southern Water tribe, but that's very different from keeping her locked up in the compound. Her Isolation was probably more social than intentional. I'm just speculating here, but my guess is that nobody would stop her from going into town. However, once she was IN town everybody would be too busy being respectful and in awe to strike up a proper friendship.

[Metahuman1]

Actually, this all sorta raises a good point. How the crap did they get of all people Katara to agree to this "Aang Said" stuff if it was a fabrication?

Heck, that also begs the question of what happened to the White Lotus that they suddenly got so militant and so dumb between series.

[thubby]

Heck, that also begs the question of what happened to the White Lotus that they suddenly got so militant and so dumb between series.

well they were quite militant at the end of the war. they spearheaded the recapture of basingsey (or however that's spelled)

[Sith_Happens]

Actually, this all sorta raises a good point. How the crap did they get of all people Katara to agree to this "Aang Said" stuff if it was a fabrication?

Heck, that also begs the question of what happened to the White Lotus that they suddenly got so militant and so dumb between series.

"Between series" is 70 years, so it could have been a gradual change.

[BRC]

Actually, this all sorta raises a good point. How the crap did they get of all people Katara to agree to this "Aang Said" stuff if it was a fabrication?

Heck, that also begs the question of what happened to the White Lotus that they suddenly got so militant and so dumb between series.

I could see it happening via RAMPANT SPECULATION!

The OWL conquers Ba-Sing Se at the end of the War, they do so by having a small number of incredibly powerful benders+ A badass with a sword.
Yes they're a secret society dedicated to philosophy and Pai-Sho, but everybody is going to think of them as the Guys Who Liberated Ba-Sing-Se now.
When empires fall there is always a lot of instability. The Earth King's army would have been disbanded or gone into hiding when Ba Sing Se was captured, and the Earth Kingdom seemed to contain plenty of semi-autonomous provinces (Like Omashu). The Fire Nation troops would have left right away, but it would have been a while before the Earth King could re-establish control. Meanwhile there's dispossessed earth kingdom soldiers and fire nation troops with no war to fight and no armies to put them down. The OWL leaders probably never took to the field together again, but The Avatar can't be everywhere, so knowing the OWL was around could have gone a long way towards keeping things calm. They wouldn't even need to be that skilled. You could put some poets in OWL uniforms and you could probably discourage any would-be-warlords. After all, who wants to mess with the guy who conquered Ba-Sing-Se Troops from the three remaining nations could join the OWL to function as peacekeepers until the United Republic Army was established.

Plus, you know, the "militancy" we've seen has largely been limited to maybe a half dozen guards on Air Temple Island and Korra's Compound.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I can't play the videos on Nick's site. The video screen is black except for something in the center. It looks like:

X
C3

Except bigger.

[thubby]

it just occured to me how clever korra's position is. if you look at the target demographic of TLA, they would now be in or heading to college and facing the exact situation BRC describes.
we baby college students, but not the same aged young men and women who go straight into the work force.

[Juntao112]

Silliness aside, Unalaq is basically a Fire Lord - he believes that his way of governance is correct, and wants to enforce it with warships.

Also, why does water need spirit control in addition to healing and blood bending and taking away bending? Meanwhile, Air still has zero special moves.


I imagine Air's special move is something like this.

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/rav/93.jpg

[Grey Watcher]

I imagine Air's special move is something like this.

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/rav/93.jpg

Well, Gyatso was found in room full of dead Firebenders. He had to kill them somehow....

[t209]

Well, Gyatso was found in room full of dead Firebenders. He had to kill them somehow....
I don't know,
Maybe Gyatso tried to pull a loophold of nonviolence by making surrounding air combustible enough to burn everyone to crisp or he tricked them into deplete Oxygen by closing the room. Too bad Airbender are all dead but at least they didn't turn out to be like Aiel from Wheel of Time (Formerly Pacifist until a dude killed a raider with spear).
P.S- So How would wheel of time be in Airbender?
Rand- Aang
Perrin- Katara
Matt- Sokka
Seanchan Empire- Fire Nation

[Sith_Happens]

[Snip]

Except in the interquel comics exactly nothing like that seems to have been the case.

[chainer1216]

airbending has no special moves? have we all forgotten about Fart Bending so quickly?!

on a serious note: i hate this so far. i just watched the two episodes and its just awful. so much for character growth.

[MLai]

Welp, I agree with everything BRC said.

The thing is, I didn't hate Korra like this in S1. Naive thuggish teenage Avatar? I understood why. I knew she was isolated, trained to see Avatarhood as just bender asskicking, etc. S1's events seemed purpose-built to teach her the lessons of becoming more spiritual and navigating a greyer world. All good. I await the hero's growth of character. I said as much in S1 threads.

Blame the teachers and caretakers for her flaws? Fine, you could also have done that in S1.

But now in S2, it all comes back to the fact that S1 has taught her nothing. Did she learn anything while dealing with the moral greys of the Equalist Rebellion? Nope, BBEG turned out to be a phoney holding an idiot ball. And all the social discontent melted away like orcs after Sauron is blown up. And she get Avatar glowy-eyes conveniently in the last 5 minutes of the last eps. And in S2, we see S1 effectively might as well not have happened. Except that she's now even more self-entitled because "she solved" the Equalist crisis.

So who do I hate? Yeah.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

It makes sense that she'd superficially regress, especially in the face of feeling so powerless and personally threatened at the end of S1. Actual, final character change is coming, but that's gonna be slower. She is, after all, incredibly willful and changes not her mind so quickly.

Heck--she gives Zuko a run for his money, when it comes to being stubborn, willful, and not learning lessons.

Plus, this is what, her 15th and 16th episodes? And the start of a new season. That's the precise time when you get a "snapshot" of a character who's going to undergo growth. So don't count her out.

[Sith_Happens]

And now she's looking to start a training regimen that we already know will by nature require her to finally pick up some much-needed humility. So the problem is?

EDIT: Sort of ninja'd, I think.

[Jayngfet]

Welp, I agree with everything BRC said.

The thing is, I didn't hate Korra like this in S1. Naive thuggish teenage Avatar? I understood why. I knew she was isolated, trained to see Avatarhood as just bender asskicking, etc. S1's events seemed purpose-built to teach her the lessons of becoming more spiritual and navigating a greyer world. All good. I await the hero's growth of character. I said as much in S1 threads.

Blame the teachers and caretakers for her flaws? Fine, you could also have done that in S1.

But now in S2, it all comes back to the fact that S1 has taught her nothing. Did she learn anything while dealing with the moral greys of the Equalist Rebellion? Nope, BBEG turned out to be a phoney holding an idiot ball. And all the social discontent melted away like orcs after Sauron is blown up. And she get Avatar glowy-eyes conveniently in the last 5 minutes of the last eps. And in S2, we see S1 effectively might as well not have happened. Except that she's now even more self-entitled because "she solved" the Equalist crisis.

So who do I hate? Yeah.

I can't help but feel that these episodes are trying to actively shift the blame away from Korra herself.

"See, it's not her fault! Her parents did a crappy job and lied to her for her entire life!"

Which is interesting and all, but they still act like Amon was some big bad who got beaten then everything went back to normal. I mean lets get real here, Korra herself was the least important part of beating Amon since he was stupid enough to basically beat himself and nobody seems to recall that his statements were totally valid. I mean when Mako gets two jobs ONLY because he's a Bender and they handle huge amounts of industry people who aren't benders obviously have problems by comparison.

It doesn't matter which side of the argument you fall under, Korra is just plain a sub par series at the end of the day. I mean it may look better than most modern flash cartoons, but that's not saying terribly much since a lot of the artistic choices plain don't work once you give them real thought.


It makes sense that she'd superficially regress, especially in the face of feeling so powerless and personally threatened at the end of S1. Actual, final character change is coming, but that's gonna be slower. She is, after all, incredibly willful and changes not her mind so quickly.

Heck--she gives Zuko a run for his money, when it comes to being stubborn, willful, and not learning lessons.

Plus, this is what, her 15th and 16th episodes? And the start of a new season. That's the precise time when you get a "snapshot" of a character who's going to undergo growth. So don't count her out.


She was supposed to have already developed. This isn't the start of the series, it's two seasons in. She hasn't exactly developed that much since episode one.

Which means that for the entirity of the original run, which was planned as all we saw of her, she was a static, incredibly flat character with no real appeal to her.

[Metahuman1]

Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't a major part of Amon's thing that he was going out of his way to exaggerate that inequality? Mako's got two jobs using his Bending, The heads of Future Industry's and Cabbage Corp and from the look of it now the guy running the global shipping industry, all massive movers and shakers in the world, more so then many of the top bender characters we've seen, are none benders?

True, Tarrlock was classic power hungry dictator exploiting Amon and repressing them even further to keep a vicious cycle filled so that he could maintain that political power, but he's been outed and he's dead. The entire former ruling body of republic city is out of power, there's been a new and presumably not biased election or if anything biased toward a none bender candidate since the 5 bender counsel blew it so badly during the rebellion. At this point there's no reason to think quite a few laws haven't been changed or aren't in the process of being changed in a style similar to the Great America Plan or the New/Square Deal domestic policies America under went under some of it's past presidents.

There's no reason to think the equality thing, to a level it was actually a problem and not manufactured for propaganda, was not fixed or is not as they speak in the mist of being fixed while other things go on.



And the problem I'm seeing, again, comes down to the shorter seasons. If you recall, it took most of 40 episodes for Zuko to truly, seriously call into question weather or not he should be hunting the Avatar and trying to get back to the fire nation. He had to actually get there after another 4 or so eps and then be there for another 10 or so before he finally decided that his father and sister were in the wrong and that he had to leave and help the Avatar. It took Iroh, May and Tai Li almost as long to get onto a similar boat. While you might not be wanting too much, I think you guys are wanting it too fast. You want her in 14 eps to be were Zuko and Iroh were in the middle of season 3 of TLA, or were Mai and Ty Lee were at the Boiling Rock episode.


Patience, one round exposure to something outside the world you knew, particularly when in a lot of ways the training wheels were still on and no shortage of people spent a lot of time trying to kick your wheels out form under you to further there own agenda, in ways you were often not trained to deal with to boot, does not give a 16 year old enlightenment. Heck, just the fact that her knee jerk reaction was not to go "I'm not afraid, get me there leader so I can fire kick it's head off!" shows some improvement off the bat.

[Juntao112]

I mean when Mako gets two jobs ONLY because he's a Bender and they handle huge amounts of industry people who aren't benders obviously have problems by comparison.
Job 1: Generating electricity at a power plant. I'm pretty sure non-fire benders can't generate electricity except by firing coal... which, judging by the smoke in Republic City, is probably going on as well.
Job 2: Policing the city. I am under the impression Mako got the job due to his skills in butt-kicking, not bending. Though he does kick butt with his bending, so I suppose that your point could be true.

[thubby]

with all the ninjas running around, im frankly surprised there arent chi blockers on the police force like everywhere

[Sith_Happens]

with all the ninjas running around, im frankly surprised there arent chi blockers on the police force like everywhere

That would mean letting former Equalists onto the force, which isn't something that happens in six months.

[cobaltstarfire]

...Patience ...

It really does go back to what you said a bit earlier, there aren't enough episodes per season, and I really question why they're still trying to cram the stories they have into so few episodes.

I mean if Nick is ordering fewer per season, then Korras people need to go back over their plans and crop parts to better the whole, not try to cram everything they had planed in at the expense of overall quality. Even now just seeing the first two episodes of this season, I have a strong feeling that they're trying to do too much with too few episodes.

I liked these two episodes but I think I only really did because I like avatar in general. There was an awful lot that made me cringe at the way most of the characters are acting. Many of them are behaving in a way that feels forced, like they need to act this way to tell the story the writers want to tell, but it isn't true to their characters. I'm also pretty dissatisfied with MakoXKorra. It didn't bother me initially, or at least I was willing to give the pairing a chance, but it's really just falling flat. Mako has been sucked dry of his personality and appears to be trying to fill a role that probably would have been better served by Bolin (with or without the shipping). I'm honestly hoping they break up and there is never any relationship that plays into the story again.

As far as Korras behavior, well I can see where she's coming from, but I don't think it justifies how she is behaving at all (Even as an educator, knowing just how muddled up and frustrated teenagers can get). It is especially annoying that she's gone backwards since the end of S1. But maybe that is on purpose, I could see the story becoming about her learning (for real this time) that brute force is not an acceptable way to deal with everything. I don't have much hope of her becoming a likeable character to me though. :\

At this point I think I'm in it mostly for the neat spirits. I'm also interested how things turn out for Asami, and what will happen with Bolin (assuming they let him grow as a character beyond comedy relief).

[thubby]

That would mean letting former Equalists onto the force, which isn't something that happens in six months.

or finding someone willing to teach it to people you trust. or uninvolved parties who know how to do it. it's not something equalists invented, it's out there in the world somewhere.

[Jayngfet]

Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't a major part of Amon's thing that he was going out of his way to exaggerate that inequality? Mako's got two jobs using his Bending, The heads of Future Industry's and Cabbage Corp and from the look of it now the guy running the global shipping industry, all massive movers and shakers in the world, more so then many of the top bender characters we've seen, are none benders?

True, Tarrlock was classic power hungry dictator exploiting Amon and repressing them even further to keep a vicious cycle filled so that he could maintain that political power, but he's been outed and he's dead. The entire former ruling body of republic city is out of power, there's been a new and presumably not biased election or if anything biased toward a none bender candidate since the 5 bender counsel blew it so badly during the rebellion. At this point there's no reason to think quite a few laws haven't been changed or aren't in the process of being changed in a style similar to the Great America Plan or the New/Square Deal domestic policies America under went under some of it's past presidents.

There's no reason to think the equality thing, to a level it was actually a problem and not manufactured for propaganda, was not fixed or is not as they speak in the mist of being fixed while other things go on.


Pretty much every government and law enforcement figure is a bender as well.

Which is kind of something that supports the point. To be sucessful inside the system, benders need to basically work their way from the ground up. They need to straight up invent whole new things constantly in order to become signifigant. A Bender, meanwhile, can work inside the system rather comfortably and is able to work all of the middle class jobs, in addition to having better odds of becoming upper class or even just hovering around the poverty line.



And the problem I'm seeing, again, comes down to the shorter seasons. If you recall, it took most of 40 episodes for Zuko to truly, seriously call into question weather or not he should be hunting the Avatar and trying to get back to the fire nation. He had to actually get there after another 4 or so eps and then be there for another 10 or so before he finally decided that his father and sister were in the wrong and that he had to leave and help the Avatar. It took Iroh, May and Tai Li almost as long to get onto a similar boat. While you might not be wanting too much, I think you guys are wanting it too fast. You want her in 14 eps to be were Zuko and Iroh were in the middle of season 3 of TLA, or were Mai and Ty Lee were at the Boiling Rock episode.


They knew seasons would be this long going in and knew exactly what kind of resources they had to play with. They failed to use them.



Patience, one round exposure to something outside the world you knew, particularly when in a lot of ways the training wheels were still on and no shortage of people spent a lot of time trying to kick your wheels out form under you to further there own agenda, in ways you were often not trained to deal with to boot, does not give a 16 year old enlightenment. Heck, just the fact that her knee jerk reaction was not to go "I'm not afraid, get me there leader so I can fire kick it's head off!" shows some improvement off the bat.

One round exposure is an entire season and all they were initially promised. They delivered a product with no real development and just kind of assumed even with the plot wrapped up they'd be handed as much as they wanted.

If you need to take twenty hours to develop your main character it doesn't mean you're writing a nuanced story. It means you're a bad writer.

[Metahuman1]

or finding someone willing to teach it to people you trust. or uninvolved parties who know how to do it. it's not something equalists invented, it's out there in the world somewhere.

Didn't the end of TLA establish that Ty Lee, the first person to have mastered this style we got to see, joined the Kyoshi Warriors, and thus it would be entirely reasonable for Republic City to go and get one or two people form Kyoshi Island to help train people for there police force from there, given that it's not unreasonable to assume during her probably fairly long and productive life Ty Lee taught a pretty significant number of students, no small percentage of which we could assume were very effective masters of the style in there own rights?

Edit: Airbendered.




Nitpick point: 20 episodes is more like 7 hours then 20, significant difference. And we give "Adult" shows better then 20 hours to tell there story and never question it, but we kick the "kids" show for short comings that come with it not being treated the same.

And we don't know that ALL the cops are benders, we know all of Bei Fong's special unit and Tarrlock's Task Force were benders. I actually though it was implied near the end of season one that all the cops working the communications and dispatch were in fact not benders given that while being attacked physically they did not make any attempt to bend.

And again, far as we know, it's entirely possible that the new president is a none bender. And hey, we don't really know what the current political landscape in either the earth kingdom or the fire nation is, so for all we know there are lot's of none benders running the show there. And we saw a fair number of other not entirely insignificant government types in season 1 who once again were not benders, just off the top of my head Tarrlocks assistant.



I'm not saying there was NO issue, I'm saying you had a bad guy who was making it out to be MUCH worse then it was and actively going out of his way to make it MORE of a problem so that he could use that propaganda mixed with a bit of what people didn't necessarily realize was self created truth to make it seem more real and thus more persuasive to further his goal, and another bad guy who was capitalizing on the divide being furthered and advertised as even further then it was to justify an us vs. them crack down and instilling martial law so he could go dictator. If you take them out of the game, you still have some issue, but it probably wouldn't have needed the avatar, or at the very least would have needed utterly none violent intervention by the avatar which Ironically would have been a much better learning experience for her, to solve it.

But that doesn't make an exciting story generally, particularly when your format is largely an action/adventure show.

Note: Don't mention the bending triads in ep 1 being thugs. There organized crime, there suppose to be thugs. They were acting just like every other 20's mobster in media ever. Nothing of substance to use on that point. Heck, if anything, that sequence shows that benders are being policed by there own cause if Korra had been anyone else and caused that much damage, Len made it very clear she'd have had her hide for it. As it was it took Tenzin personally interceding and taking responsibility for it to prevent that.


Also note: Pretty much every functioning world has problems, on some level, all the time. Because evil and good are a thing and because humans, even with super powers, usually have flaws. So no, republic city may not be a utopian paradise, but trying to say that because it has an issue or two and isn't a utopian paradise it's a horrible setting is unfair.

[Sholos]

So did anyone else notice that when Korra attempted to calm the one spirit it started to turn white as opposed to the yellow that the others turned?

[thubby]

So did anyone else notice that when Korra attempted to calm the one spirit it started to turn white as opposed to the yellow that the others turned?

i would hazard that it has to do with korra's intent. if she was trying to stop it or banish it that's likely different from what the other guy was doing.

[John Cribati]

What I find kind of funny is that people are complaining that Korra didn't learn anything in season 1(which is a valid complaint) but then complain that Korra is acting like she didn't learn anything.

[MLai]

What I find kind of funny is that people are complaining that Korra didn't learn anything in season 1(which is a valid complaint) but then complain that Korra is acting like she didn't learn anything.
Well it is pretty bad that your protag learned nothing after an entire first season. It's like if the Death Star blew up itself.

I think what I expected was that even though I know Korra didn't actually learn anything in S1, I had expected the writers to pretend that she did. Like the equivalent of "Let's never talk about S1 again... just pretend it was a good season and Korra learned how to be less confrontational." But nope, the writers didn't even bother to do that.

[John Cribati]

Well it is pretty bad that your protag learned nothing after an entire first season. It's like if the Death Star blew up itself.

I think what I expected was that even though I know Korra didn't actually learn anything in S1, I had expected the writers to pretend that she did. Like the equivalent of "Let's never talk about S1 again... just pretend it was a good season and Korra learned how to be less confrontational." But nope, the writers didn't even bother to do that.

So, basically, you want the creators to be lazy?

[MLai]

So, basically, you want the creators to be lazy?
No I want them to follow through with their lackluster "character development" of Korra in S1.
We know Korra didn't learn anything in S1 because everything was handed to her through authorial fiat. But the story pretended she had character development; witness her "enlightenment" into Avatarhood.
So if the show wants to pretend Korra learned something, then go through with it! But nope.

[John Cribati]

No I want them to follow through with their lackluster "character development" of Korra in S1.
We know Korra didn't learn anything in S1 because everything was handed to her through authorial fiat. But the story pretended she had character development; witness her "enlightenment" into Avatarhood.
So if the show wants to pretend Korra learned something, then go through with it! But nope.

But... she wasn't "enlightened" at all. She was just able to forge a deeper connection to her past lives, something Aang was able to do from almost the get-go. I mean, she made her first real connection to Aang when she was locked in a box, and practically went "welp, I've got nothing better to do!" That didn't have anything to do with her being less confrontational, or more enlightened. She just had no other options.

[Socratov]

I'd argue agaisnt her learning nothing in season 1. A feact I'm willing to embrace si that she learned nothing important in S1, however she learned how the city works, she learned of the world outside her compound, she also learned that confrontational methods do work (kind of brute force rule) when applied enough. And finally, she learned a great lesson being htat people are seekign to control her as much as possible becuase of her Avatar status. The problem is her short-sightedness at these lessons. This is due to one part being an emotional teenager with the strongheadedness of an ox, the other part is the fact that she was isolated and pretty much only taught the physical aspects of bending. Now along come Tenzin and her uncle Unalaq. The former wants her to embark on a spritual quest alongside of him to the airbending temples, asking for introspection and facing yourself (and the lack of self-knowledge). The latter shows her a spritual bending move brought forth by a bending form (which she tried and almost succeeded in), a move she can learn by physical effort instead of mental effort.

When we compare to Aang we see a pre-teen boy in tough with his emotional and spiritual side. Part because of him being an airbender, part becuase of him having contact with boys and girls his age (untill shunned for beïng the avatar). For Aang (apart form choosing between spritual balance or his love for Katara) spirutal balance has been ingrained into his daily life being taught by Gyatso. Korra never had such a teacher. Korra had only what can be described as drill instructors. It was not so clear in S1, but this is basically Korra's big deal: she has all the attributes to be a great bender of Earth, water and fire (she is often seen using all 3 in unison with a level of control Not even Aang could show in S1, S2 and S3), but she misses the part of teaching what makes bending, bending. She knows the what and the how, but not the why. And the why is what makes Airbending, Airbending. Just like Korra knows she is supposed to bring balance, she has abolsutely not an inkling what that balance is. By being unbalanced herself (and judging her tantrums and violent nature she is) she has no clue how to make that balance happen except for using her tried and true method: Bend until things break. (pun inteded). That's why I think opening the portal has nothing to do with Korra, but everything with the avatar state and the (presumed) first avatar (or at least his/her statue). This is an intervention the same way Aang had his frequent interventions in the form of the avatar state when he needed them.

However, being stubborn and having her past lives solve her problems of an emotional and/or spiritual nature doesn't teach her anything. If anything it reinforces her belief that as long as shen is there the situation will resolve itself, not promting her to actually learn something. With the 'easy' path given by Unalaq and the hard part given by Tenzin whom she feels betrayed by because he wanted to keep her secluded from the world it's not a hard choice to make. She uses the thing she can mentally process and cope with which also conveniently does not force her to venture into territory she has no patience for. Compare to Aang who could be seen as the polar opposite in learning philosophy and spirituality first and bending forms second.

I'd argue that her lack of learning is actual plot relevant and continuing hte story. She could have learned more, but the fact that she didn't is telling for the over arcing plot. Hence my earlier statement in expecting Airbending to be (again) plot central this season, hopefully in a different way then 'hope in the darkest hour'.

[Reverent-One]

With the 'easy' path given by Unalaq and the hard part given by Tenzin whom she feels betrayed by because he wanted to keep her secluded from the world it's not a hard choice to make.

I don't think it's an easy path vs hard path decision here, but that Unalaq seems to be right that's causing Korra to choose him.

[Flickerdart]

And now she's looking to start a training regimen that we already know will by nature require her to finally pick up some much-needed humility. So the problem is?

EDIT: Sort of ninja'd, I think.
Do you really think she'll still go through with the training after the last scene of the premiere?

[chainer1216]

Do you really think she'll still go through with the training after the last scene of the premiere?

she didn't seem very angry in the last scene, she seemed torn, like part of her thought this needed to happen. we know what Korra's plan is when faced with an army, find the leader and punch him in the face, yet we have no face punchy, not even an angry or shocked expression on her face, just one that says "uuuhhhhhg my dad is not going to be happy about this." i think she's going to stay with him till he does something cruel.

[BRC]

she didn't seem very angry in the last scene, she seemed torn, like part of her thought this needed to happen. we know what Korra's plan is when faced with an army, find the leader and punch him in the face, yet we have no face punchy, not even an angry or shocked expression on her face, just one that says "uuuhhhhhg my dad is not going to be happy about this." i think she's going to stay with him till he does something cruel.
She'll stay with her uncle, but I doubt she's on his side.


Consider, she just learned that her father spent years lying to her "For her own good", and is trying to control her. Standard Teen Rebellion Stuff, ect. She faces a threat (The Dark Spirits) she is helpless against. Her Uncle arrives, presenting a solution, and offering Korra a Choice.
So far, Go Uncle Dude! Teacher Korra useful skills and treating her like an inexperienced adult rather than a child!

And then everything changed when the Northern Water Tribe Attacked.

The Dark Spirits ARE a serious problem. Assuming Korra's uncle is telling the truth about them being angered by the Southern Water Tribe's lack of devotion ( I wouldn't be surprised to learn that he stirred up the Dark Spirits to justify a takeover of the SWT).

This is a bigger version of the same trick Tarrlock Pulled. "In order to combat the greater threat we must do X", the ends justify the means, you cannot make an omlette without breaking eggs, all the usual tripe.
If Korra learned anything from her experience with Tarrlock, she'll rage at this. Otherwise she'll go along with it, making apologies until we get the inevitable "You're our avatar too!" moment.

However, Uncle Dude has Korra over a barrel. Even with the Avatar State she's been able to, at most, stall the Dark Spirits for a short period of time. If she wants to stop the Dark Spirits from rampaging, she NEEDS Uncle Dude's help. As far as she knows, the alternative to doing what Uncle Dude says is letting the Dark Spirits destroy the Southern Water Tribe.
I picture some variation on the following exchange happening many times.
"You must do X!"
"But-"
"Or else the Spirits will not be appeased and will rampage over everything".


If Uncle Dude is behind the Dark Spirits, then the plot will be figuring that out so Korra can punch him a lot.

If Uncle Dude is NOT behind the dark Spirits, then the plot will be Korra needing to find a way to solve the problem without him, so she can punch him a lot.

I half expect Asami and Shipping Dude to vanish at some point, only to show up a few episodes later like "hey, we went around the world and found a Spirit expert who does NOT want to conquer the southern water tribe as part of some sibling-rivalry power play. His name is Catfish Slim and he's from the Foggy Swamp tribe. He will accept payment in beans. Say Hi Slim!" "Hey there missy! It looks like yer spurits are mighty rustled. Well, ol' Slim's got sumthing ta fix that. Here, strum this banjo."
The season ends with three episodes of Hillbilly Hodown.

[BassWalker]

I half expect Asami and Shipping Dude to vanish at some point, only to show up a few episodes later like "hey, we went around the world and found a Spirit expert who does NOT want to conquer the southern water tribe as part of some sibling-rivalry power play. His name is Catfish Slim and he's from the Foggy Swamp tribe. He will accept payment in beans. Say Hi Slim!" "Hey there missy! It looks like yer spurits are mighty rustled. Well, ol' Slim's got sumthing ta fix that. Here, strum this banjo."
The season ends with three episodes of Hillbilly Hodown.

Am I the only one who wouldn't mind this happening?

[The_Admiral]

Am I the only one who wouldn't mind this happening?

Nope, Hilbilly Hoedown is awesome.

[Tectonic Robot]

I hope the whole "Northern Water Tribe Invasion" doesn't overshadow "Spirits, dawgs".

I think those spirits are darn interesting.

[Metahuman1]

Am I the only one who wouldn't mind this happening?

I would be highly entertained by this.

[Infernally Clay]

I am actually seriously wondering about Unalaq. Is he the Amon of the season, using his unique Waterbending capabilities to manipulate people around him? I mean, if his "Spiritbending" allows him to calm spirits, I'm sure he could just as easily use it to anger them. If his intention is to bring the Southern Water Tribe under his control, he could be causing the Spirits' attacks and using them as an excuse - what better way to have the Southern Water Tribe welcome his leadership than for him to save them from a perceived threat that their current leader could not? Bonus points if he gets the Avatar on his side, right?

[Grey Watcher]

I am actually seriously wondering about Unalaq. Is he the Amon of the season, using his unique Waterbending capabilities to manipulate people around him? I mean, if his "Spiritbending" allows him to calm spirits, I'm sure he could just as easily use it to anger them. If his intention is to bring the Southern Water Tribe under his control, he could be causing the Spirits' attacks and using them as an excuse - what better way to have the Southern Water Tribe welcome his leadership than for him to save them from a perceived threat that their current leader could not? Bonus points if he gets the Avatar on his side, right?

Oooh, a speculative thought occus. To the spoiler room!

So, maybe Unalaq (Unalok?) IS manufacturing the Spirit Crisis in order to give himself an excuse to annex the Southern Water Tribe. I mean, it is terribly convenient. But what if it doesn't end there? What if he's poked the hornet's nest and, while he can swat individual bugs, he can't stop the massive attack he's unleashed on the material world? So then we have Korra having to solve a legitimate problem that goes far beyond taking down the pretender that started it. That's a plot I could get behind.

Also, watching the weird preview thing that was free on my Amazon Instant account, I saw a lot of footage of what looked like Korra and Jinora in the Spirit World, so I'm anxious to see how that plays out.

[t209]

So How would The Last Airbender characters be in Wheel of Time?
Rand- Aang (Chosen One)
Perrin- Katara (I know she's neither a blacksmith or wolf friend)
Mat- Sokka (Not for luck but both of them have least magic capable person)
Seanchan Empire- Fire Nation (evil and use lizard mounts)
Westlands- Earth Kingdom (invaded areas)

[BRC]

Oooh, a speculative thought occus. To the spoiler room!

So, maybe Unalaq (Unalok?) IS manufacturing the Spirit Crisis in order to give himself an excuse to annex the Southern Water Tribe. I mean, it is terribly convenient. But what if it doesn't end there? What if he's poked the hornet's nest and, while he can swat individual bugs, he can't stop the massive attack he's unleashed on the material world? So then we have Korra having to solve a legitimate problem that goes far beyond taking down the pretender that started it. That's a plot I could get behind.

Also, watching the weird preview thing that was free on my Amazon Instant account, I saw a lot of footage of what looked like Korra and Jinora in the Spirit World, so I'm anxious to see how that plays out.


This is my current theory. It fits very well.
Unalaq studies The Spirits, his brother studies War. Unalaq is jeleous of his brother, so he arranges for the whole "Spirit Forest" incident, then goes and solves the problem. His brother is banished, he is the new Heir Apparent.

had his brother just stayed in banishment, he would have stopped there. HOWEVER said brother goes and has The Avatar as a daughter. Unalaq is jealous again. His thuggish soldier brother gets The Avatar as a daughter? Unthinkable.
So, he goes to the Southern Water Tribe, which has neglected its spirit-duties, whips up a few Dark Spirits, all while making it very clear that this is his Brother's fault.

Seriously, he seems to think his brother is personally to blame for the SWT's lack of spiritual dilligence.

Of course, it's just as interesting if he's NOT behind the Dark Spirits. If his intentions are good, he's just extreme about them. Provided they actually explore that of course.

That said, I don't think Unulaq's Spiritbending thing is a unique skill like SSBM or Moonless Bloodbending. He talks about it like it's just a skill he picked up from studying the Spirits, and a skill he will teach to Korra.



Also, Hold on a second...

His Army arrives on the Lunar Equinox.

The Dark Spirit attacks begin shortly before/when he arrives. The first attack we see is on a Boat...potentially when HE was also on a boat heading south.
After he arrives, land-based Dark Spirits attack with increasing intensity. Each attack furthers his plans somehow. The first attack convinces Korra to train with him. The Second attack convinces her to send her father away.
That's fishy, but it's not the whole fish.

The Fishiest is that his army was there.

Even if he made a phone call (Assuming they have phone lines from the South Pole to the rest of the world) as soon as he heard about the Dark Spirits there is no WAY his army could mobilize, get on boats, and then traverse the entire world that quickly. They are literally going from one end of the planet to the other, and we're expected to believe they did that in a few days?

The only way this makes sense is if he mobilized his army ahead of time and had them wait/lag a few days behind him so they would show up on the morning of the equinox.

Which means either 1) He was SO OUTRAGED That he decided to annex the SWT on general principle, before seeing the Dark Spirit attacks firsthand.
Or
2) He's behind the Dark Spirit attacks, using them as an excuse to conquer the SWT.

So anything he says about "My army is here to put the SWT on the right path to appease the Dark Spirits" is 100% Pigcow poop. He was planning this invasion long before he was able to see how angry the spirits were.

[Metahuman1]

This is my current theory. It fits very well.
Unalaq studies The Spirits, his brother studies War. Unalaq is jeleous of his brother, so he arranges for the whole "Spirit Forest" incident, then goes and solves the problem. His brother is banished, he is the new Heir Apparent.

had his brother just stayed in banishment, he would have stopped there. HOWEVER said brother goes and has The Avatar as a daughter. Unalaq is jealous again. His thuggish soldier brother gets The Avatar as a daughter? Unthinkable.
So, he goes to the Southern Water Tribe, which has neglected its spirit-duties, whips up a few Dark Spirits, all while making it very clear that this is his Brother's fault.

Seriously, he seems to think his brother is personally to blame for the SWT's lack of spiritual dilligence.

Of course, it's just as interesting if he's NOT behind the Dark Spirits. If his intentions are good, he's just extreme about them. Provided they actually explore that of course.

That said, I don't think Unulaq's Spiritbending thing is a unique skill like SSBM or Moonless Bloodbending. He talks about it like it's just a skill he picked up from studying the Spirits, and a skill he will teach to Korra.



Also, Hold on a second...

His Army arrives on the Lunar Equinox.

The Dark Spirit attacks begin shortly before/when he arrives. The first attack we see is on a Boat...potentially when HE was also on a boat heading south.
After he arrives, land-based Dark Spirits attack with increasing intensity. Each attack furthers his plans somehow. The first attack convinces Korra to train with him. The Second attack convinces her to send her father away.
That's fishy, but it's not the whole fish.

The Fishiest is that his army was there.

Even if he made a phone call (Assuming they have phone lines from the South Pole to the rest of the world) as soon as he heard about the Dark Spirits there is no WAY his army could mobilize, get on boats, and then traverse the entire world that quickly. They are literally going from one end of the planet to the other, and we're expected to believe they did that in a few days?

The only way this makes sense is if he mobilized his army ahead of time and had them wait/lag a few days behind him so they would show up on the morning of the equinox.

Which means either 1) He was SO OUTRAGED That he decided to annex the SWT on general principle, before seeing the Dark Spirit attacks firsthand.
Or
2) He's behind the Dark Spirit attacks, using them as an excuse to conquer the SWT.

So anything he says about "My army is here to put the SWT on the right path to appease the Dark Spirits" is 100% Pigcow poop. He was planning this invasion long before he was able to see how angry the spirits were.

Very likely, as I had said, everything about spirit problems seems to play out in a fashion that is all too conviniant for him. Sorta like the green goblin blowing up the rival company's new prototype that was threatening the Oscorp contract, and then killing the other board members after they voted Norman out. My, that worked out well for dear old Norman Osborn, didn't it?


That said, I think I rather fancy first them discovering that he's behind it but she has to put up with it for awhile anyway cause she still needs his technique, and then finding out he's started more problem then he can solve and she has to learn from work with other people to solve it, and either right before that/right after that she get's to bend him ten shades of purple.

[Sith_Happens]

I hope the whole "Northern Water Tribe Invasion" doesn't overshadow "Spirits, dawgs".

I think those spirits are darn interesting.

Throwing my hat into the speculation ring:

I think that Grey DeLisle's new character is manipulating Unalaq into carrying out his takeover. Think about it: Unalaq claims in episode two that spirits aren't evil, they just become unbalanced (obviously he's never met Koh). So if a powerful spirit were to tell him that he needs to force-feed the Southern Water Tribe their old traditions or else [insert preferred variety of DOOM], why wouldn't he believe it?

[Metahuman1]

Throwing my hat into the speculation ring:

I think that Grey DeLisle's new character is manipulating Unalaq into carrying out his takeover. Think about it: Unalaq claims in episode two that spirits aren't evil, they just become unbalanced (obviously he's never met Koh). So if a powerful spirit were to tell him that he needs to force-feed the Southern Water Tribe their old traditions or else [insert preferred variety of DOOM], why wouldn't he believe it?

Actually, that's another point. We know in the past Avatar Korrige killed Koh, because he killed the woman Korrige loved. And we know it was so very long ago it might well be forgotten to anyone except the Avatar. I mean, When Aang told his story it's entirely plausible that he glossed over that part or at least important details of that part.


Who's to say Koh isn't secretly pulling the uncles strings with the intention of just screwing with the Avatar/ Screwing the Avatar over just for the heck of it?

[Tectonic Robot]

Time out, according to a spoiler message, Grey DeLisle is gunna be in this!?

[Gamerlord]

Time out, according to a spoiler message, Grey DeLisle is gunna be in this!?
Voicing one new character called "The Dark Spirit" or something like that in season two, and another new character in Book 3.

[Sith_Happens]

Actually, that's another point. We know in the past Avatar Korrige killed Koh, because he killed the woman Korrige loved. And we know it was so very long ago it might well be forgotten to anyone except the Avatar. I mean, When Aang told his story it's entirely plausible that he glossed over that part or at least important details of that part.


Who's to say Koh isn't secretly pulling the uncles strings with the intention of just screwing with the Avatar/ Screwing the Avatar over just for the heck of it?

I wasn't implying that Koh is the mastermind, I was just saying that anyone who thinks spirits can't be evil has obviously never met him.


Time out, according to a spoiler message, Grey DeLisle is gunna be in this!?

She confirmed quite a while ago that she's voicing a character known (for now) only as "The Dark Spirit." Which together sounds like Big Bad material to me.

EDIT: Ninja'd.

[John Cribati]

I wouldn't say Koh was evil, though. He was menacing, sure, but he never really did anything outside of his job description, or went out of his way to cause mischief. And yeah, he went after Kuruk’s wife, but that was punishment for Kuruk slacking off of his Avatar duties. At the very worst, I'd peg Koh at neutral.

[Pokonic]

I wouldn't say Koh was evil, though. He was menacing, sure, but he never really did anything outside of his job description, or went out of his way to cause mischief. And yeah, he went after Kuruk’s wife, but that was punishment for Kuruk slacking off of his Avatar duties. At the very worst, I'd peg Koh at neutral.

Koh, if he's not evil, is the nastiest sort of neutral possible, being antagonistic to anything that seeks him out and inflicting a rather horrid fate on anything that crosses him.

[Grey Watcher]

I wouldn't say Koh was evil, though. He was menacing, sure, but he never really did anything outside of his job description, or went out of his way to cause mischief. And yeah, he went after Kuruk’s wife, but that was punishment for Kuruk slacking off of his Avatar duties. At the very worst, I'd peg Koh at neutral.

Was it that Koh was punishing Kuruk for slacking off or Kuruk slacking off gave Koh the opportunity to indulge his... interests? (And even if it's the former, punishing Mrs. Kuruk for Kuruk's neglect is a ways south of Neutral.)

[Metahuman1]

Sith: I get that, I was just taking it a step further.


Pokonic: Generally Agreed

Herpestidae: Even if for sake of argument I conceded that point, though I don't, it's still possible Koh is acting up on grounds of "You, Korra, are a terrible, terrible Avatar, so I'm gonna make you either shape up or drop dead so someone else can have the job."


Edit: Airbendered!

[John Cribati]

Koh, if he's not evil, is the nastiest sort of neutral possible, being antagonistic to anything that seeks him out and inflicting a rather horrid fate on anything that crosses him.

Is he being antagonistic or just… doing what he does? I mean, he's The Face Stealer. But does he rampage about the world stealing faces haphazardly? Okay, he did that once, because the Avatar was neglecting his duties, but it looks like he just waits for someone to knock on his door.

[Metahuman1]

Perhaps because the avatar was not neglecting his duties? Maybe now that there is an avatar who might be precived to be doing so he's decided it's time to go be active about it again?

[MLai]

How about, no Koh is not in this story?
Legend of Korra is consistently at its worst, when it tries to pander to ATLA fans with recurring themes or characters, and then failing spectacularly. I'm hoping Koh is not here, so he/she doesn't get ruined.

[Grey Watcher]

How about, no Koh is not in this story?
Legend of Korra is consistently at its worst, when it tries to pander to ATLA fans with recurring themes or characters, and then failing spectacularly. I'm hoping Koh is not here, so he/she doesn't get ruined.

Well, he was only brought up because Unalok seems to be under the impression that the Spirits are all benevolent. Koh proof that this is not universally true. (Indeed, Hei Bai, that Library Spirit, Koh, they all seem, at best, indifferent to humanity.)

[Dienekes]

Is he being antagonistic or just… doing what he does? I mean, he's The Face Stealer. But does he rampage about the world stealing faces haphazardly? Okay, he did that once, because the Avatar was neglecting his duties, but it looks like he just waits for someone to knock on his door.

That's the weirdest view of morality I've ever seen. That's like saying, he's a psychopath it's just his nature. At least he only brutally murders people that walk to his door and doesn't go out hunting for victims.

Also as an aside these 'nature spirits strike back' stories always irk me. It almost always seem the nature spirits in question act completely evil. Oh no a grove burned down. For that we will slaughter everyone we see! Also, if they're so unstoppable why not make your presence known to the guys before they start a fire.

[John Cribati]

That's the weirdest view of morality I've ever seen. That's like saying, he's a psychopath it's just his nature. At least he only brutally murders people that walk to his door and doesn't go out hunting for victims.

No, it's more like saying "it's a shark, of course it's going to eat fish; they're carnivores."

[BRC]

No, it's more like saying "it's a shark, of course it's going to eat fish; they're carnivores."

Alright, so Koh is defined by it's nature, and lacks the capacity for good or evil, therefore it is not evil.
It's still dangerous, which amounts to roughly the same thing though.

[thubby]

That's the weirdest view of morality I've ever seen. That's like saying, he's a psychopath it's just his nature. At least he only brutally murders people that walk to his door and doesn't go out hunting for victims.
no one says it's immoral for the spider to eat the butterfly, or the wolf to kill the deer.
we don't really know with certainty what koh is or does, maybe its predations are how it survives. for all we know it regards us the same way we think of gnats or cows. heck, it could be right.

also, the "not causing wanton destruction" thing could matter. it's odd to think of something sapient as having some fundamental nature, but this is a fictional universe where the moon has a soul.
these spirit being could very well have certain things they can't not be or do. koh might just reap things as a fundamental part of what it is.



Also as an aside these 'nature spirits strike back' stories always irk me. It almost always seem the nature spirits in question act completely evil. Oh no a grove burned down. For that we will slaughter everyone we see! Also, if they're so unstoppable why not make your presence known to the guys before they start a fire.

i think you're being rather anthropocentric. what makes you think those spirits even cared humans exist? for all we know, they give as much attention to people as you do to insects. ignored when out of the way, exterminated when they become a problem.

[chainer1216]

hey, lets talk about the spirits for a second, before this season we saw a few, the panda spirit, both as a happy being, and a very angry one, we saw the owl librarian, we saw koh, we saw the Moon and Ocean spirits and most likely the Lion Turtle was a spirit as well. none of them seem anything like the spirits we've seen so far, they all had precise shape and form, were as these new spirits are very...watery.

[BRC]

hey, lets talk about the spirits for a second, before this season we saw a few, the panda spirit, both as a happy being, and a very angry one, we saw the owl librarian, we saw koh, we saw the Moon and Ocean spirits and most likely the Lion Turtle was a spirit as well. none of them seem anything like the spirits we've seen so far, they all had precise shape and form, were as these new spirits are very...watery.

That could just be an aesthetic decision. When they decided to dedicate a season to spirits they wanted a consistent aesthetic for them.

[Dienekes]

No, it's more like saying "it's a shark, of course it's going to eat fish; they're carnivores."


no one says it's immoral for the spider to eat the butterfly, or the wolf to kill the deer.
we don't really know with certainty what koh is or does, maybe its predations are how it survives. for all we know it regards us the same way we think of gnats or cows. heck, it could be right.

also, the "not causing wanton destruction" thing could matter. it's odd to think of something sapient as having some fundamental nature, but this is a fictional universe where the moon has a soul.
these spirit being could very well have certain things they can't not be or do. koh might just reap things as a fundamental part of what it is.



i think you're being rather anthropocentric. what makes you think those spirits even cared humans exist? for all we know, they give as much attention to people as you do to insects. ignored when out of the way, exterminated when they become a problem.

Koh can talk, reason, make plans, comprehend those around it. It's not a shark.

And if I was an ant that had my brain you better damn well believe I would try my best to destroy whatever selfish son of a bitch human that just walked on my colony. This is made worse when said human knows I'm a sentient ant along with everyone else in my colony, and has the power to prevent whatever incident started the whole mess. But just couldn't be bothered to do it, because I'm such a lowly ant.

Basically, screw the spirits they want to fight, let's give them a fight. If they want to talk, which they have repeatedly shown they have the power to do, then we'll talk.

[Kd7sov]

Basically, screw the spirits they want to fight, let's give them a fight. If they want to talk, which they have repeatedly shown they have the power to do, then we'll talk.

Point of order: Not all spirits are known to be able to talk. Hei Bai and the Ocean, for instance, have both opportunity and plausible motivation, but are never seen to produce a word. Now, yes, there are more that do, especially if the lion turtle and the monkey-dude are spirits, but assuming these little things that can't even hold their form are able to communicate... it strikes me as a stretch.

[Metahuman1]

hey, lets talk about the spirits for a second, before this season we saw a few, the panda spirit, both as a happy being, and a very angry one, we saw the owl librarian, we saw koh, we saw the Moon and Ocean spirits and most likely the Lion Turtle was a spirit as well. none of them seem anything like the spirits we've seen so far, they all had precise shape and form, were as these new spirits are very...watery.

I had noticed this when I put up my particular theory's on what's up with the uncle and were the story's going.

[thubby]

Koh can talk, reason, make plans, comprehend those around it. It's not a shark.

And if I was an ant that had my brain you better damn well believe I would try my best to destroy whatever selfish son of a bitch human that just walked on my colony. This is made worse when said human knows I'm a sentient ant along with everyone else in my colony, and has the power to prevent whatever incident started the whole mess. But just couldn't be bothered to do it, because I'm such a lowly ant.

Basically, screw the spirits they want to fight, let's give them a fight. If they want to talk, which they have repeatedly shown they have the power to do, then we'll talk.

what makes being sapient preclude having some overarching nature? we don't observe that IRL because we generally regard ourselves as the only reasoning beings and having free will, that's no reason to think it can't happen. especially in fiction

what makes you think a human is on the same level as koh or other great spirits? i'm not talking mechanically. i mean, have you considered that there could be things as different from you as you are from an ant mentally?
a situation where basic human reason is a novelty like a bird talking?

many of these beings are far too alien to think a human moral frame would hold.

[Jayngfet]

what makes being sapient preclude having some overarching nature? we don't observe that IRL because we generally regard ourselves as the only reasoning beings and having free will, that's no reason to think it can't happen. especially in fiction

what makes you think a human is on the same level as koh or other great spirits? i'm not talking mechanically. i mean, have you considered that there could be things as different from you as you are from an ant mentally?
a situation where basic human reason is a novelty like a bird talking?

many of these beings are far too alien to think a human moral frame would hold.

So basically, your entire idea revolves around Koh having a nature that was never commented on and has no real life counterpart that you just made up.

[thubby]

So basically, your entire idea revolves around Koh having a nature that was never commented on and has no real life counterpart that you just made up.

im saying that this thing is so far removed from our reality that we can't say much of anything about it beyond:

it's a spirit
it's name is koh
it's old as hell
it steals faces

its motivations, morals, etc are drawn from an existence so different from our own that it's quite pointless to speculate, much less make concrete proclamations.

[Jayngfet]

im saying that this thing is so far removed from our reality that we can't say much of anything about it beyond:

it's a spirit
it's name is koh
it's old as hell
it steals faces

its motivations, morals, etc are drawn from an existence so different from our own that it's quite pointless to speculate, much less make concrete proclamations.

Except, of course, that this isn't a show about lovecraftian entities. It's a show about a person who at the conceptual level has to deal with and understand these entities. The entire season is about dealing with and understanding them.

Claiming that it's pointless to speculate is a cheap cop out all things considered.

[thubby]

Except, of course, that this isn't a show about lovecraftian entities. It's a show about a person who at the conceptual level has to deal with and understand these entities. The entire season is about dealing with and understanding them.

Claiming that it's pointless to speculate is a cheap cop out all things considered.

the only things we know that are comparable to koh decided to become fish. mortal, normal koi fish of all things. they clearly don't think like we do.

he was supposed to be enigmatic. it's not hard to do that when you're dealing with something that exists in a dimension that isn't ours.

[Douglas]

For the people griping about Korra having too easy access to the Avatar State, I think she's not actually really there yet. Yes, she can go AS at will with a moment of concentration, but it seems like she's not really getting the full benefit of it - it's pretty much just a power boost for her, and nothing more.

When Aang went AS, he went full bore personality shift, using tactics and bending techniques he'd never even consider normally regardless of power - he got extra power, and also the skills and knowledge of all previous avatars with a hefty dose of influence on his decisions as well, which he had to actively struggle against in order to not kill Ozai.

If Korra had Aang's version of the AS, I'd have expected her to start a spirit-calming technique before Unalaq had a chance to - surely somewhere in the long history of previous Avatars one of them learned it, and that knowledge and skill would come forth and be used. Instead, she continues with exactly the same fighting style as before, just with extra power and a mobility tornado.

In short, Korra only has a half-baked partial Avatar State so far, and she knows too little about how it's supposed to work to know the difference. To get the real deal she is going to have to develop her spirituality much more.

[Dienekes]

im saying that this thing is so far removed from our reality that we can't say much of anything about it beyond:

it's a spirit
it's name is koh
it's old as hell
it steals faces

its motivations, morals, etc are drawn from an existence so different from our own that it's quite pointless to speculate, much less make concrete proclamations.

And psychopaths have a draw to kill that many say is uncontrollable. So what they're still evil.

If a creature looks down on us humans with no regard to our lives, our needs, and our accomplishments. Yet feel the need to go kill some of us, then to me they're no different than your random alien invaders. They want to start a fight you fight them. If instead they ask for peace and cooperation then you give them that instead.

[Razanir]

I half expect Asami and Shipping Dude to vanish at some point, only to show up a few episodes later like "hey, we went around the world and found a Spirit expert who does NOT want to conquer the southern water tribe as part of some sibling-rivalry power play. His name is Catfish Slim and he's from the Foggy Swamp tribe. He will accept payment in beans. Say Hi Slim!" "Hey there missy! It looks like yer spurits are mighty rustled. Well, ol' Slim's got sumthing ta fix that. Here, strum this banjo."
The season ends with three episodes of Hillbilly Hodown.

No, no, no. Catflish Slim enters earlier. Korra dismisses him as a mentor, then a few episodes later Slim comes in and beats of Unaloq for Unaloq being evil. And suddenly, Korra's learnin' the banjo n' payin' er mentor in beans.

Also, Koh isn't quite evil. The spirits in the Avatar universe operate more on a Blue-Orange morality.

EDIT: And if Slim does enter the show, an we get the guy who voices the old man in Gravity Falls?

[BRC]

No, no, no. Catflish Slim enters earlier. Korra dismisses him as a mentor, then a few episodes later Slim comes in and beats of Unaloq for Unaloq being evil. And suddenly, Korra's learnin' the banjo n' payin' er mentor in beans.

Also, Koh isn't quite evil. The spirits in the Avatar universe operate more on a Blue-Orange morality.

EDIT: And if Slim does enter the show, an we get the guy who voices the old man in Gravity Falls?

The Season Finale is an epic battle between Catfish Slim and A. Firebender.

[thubby]

And psychopaths have a draw to kill that many say is uncontrollable. So what they're still evil.

If a creature looks down on us humans with no regard to our lives, our needs, and our accomplishments. Yet feel the need to go kill some of us, then to me they're no different than your random alien invaders. They want to start a fight you fight them. If instead they ask for peace and cooperation then you give them that instead.

oh i never said koh shouldn't be stopped or that he should be left alone, only that he likely doesn't fit into our normal moral framework.

psychopaths prove my point. they are criminally insane, not evil.

[Jayngfet]

And psychopaths have a draw to kill that many say is uncontrollable. So what they're still evil.

If a creature looks down on us humans with no regard to our lives, our needs, and our accomplishments. Yet feel the need to go kill some of us, then to me they're no different than your random alien invaders. They want to start a fight you fight them. If instead they ask for peace and cooperation then you give them that instead.

This guy gets it. Having a reason for your actions doesn't stop you from being evil and it's no excuse, no matter what kind of being you are.

[Dienekes]

oh i never said koh shouldn't be stopped or that he should be left alone, only that he likely doesn't fit into our normal moral framework.

psychopaths prove my point. they are criminally insane, not evil.

Then you and I have very different definitions of evil. The criminally insane have an excuse. Doesn't change them from being evil. You can pity the evil all you want, but in the end, I still call John Wayne Gacy, or Koh, a monstrous evil that needs to be put down.

What you're saying is Koh, and psychopaths, and whatever, are individuals that disregard morality and any sense of right and wrong for some gain. We have a word for that; evil.

[Sith_Happens]

...What have I done?:smalleek:

[Dienekes]

...What have I done?:smalleek:

Started one of the more interesting debates I've had on the Avatar universe that doesn't end with me throwing my hands in the air and declaring: Dear God why do you care so much which animated figure ends up sleeping with another animated figure?

[John Cribati]

Preview for next episode. (http://pemabear.tumblr.com/post/61610225590/pro-tearbender-ugh-apparently-my-youtube)
Featuring Tenzin being Aang's favorite, and Meelo actually being somewhat humorous.

[MLai]

Which reminds me, I think it's a wrong decision on the part of writers to make Airbender genetic, i.e. only able to come from Aang's stock.

I had always figured that the Air Temples were representative pinnacles of Air Nomad culture, but not the entirety of Air Nomads. Ppl with potential to Airbend are all around those regions, it's just that the ones who want to awaken their Airbending go to the temples and become celibate monks.

So when the Fire Nation sought to eradicate Airbenders, they weren't trying to wipe out an entire ppl (too many) down to the last recessive, but a cohesive culture (much easier).
So when Aang wants to rebuild Air Nomads, what he'd do would be to recreate the temples. Those Air Acolytes? Ppl with potential to fly.

But ofc, that theory is blown out of the water, and what we have instead are monks and nuns mating like rabbits since time immemorial, something I find unfortunately hard to unsee. Really strange design decision.

[Metahuman1]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Shaoulin Monks allowed to marry and have children?

[MLai]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Shaoulin Monks allowed to marry and have children?
If they decide to not be monks anymore, yes. Same as Catholic priests I think?
Celibacy is an integral part of monkhood; same in both the East and the West.

Storywise, I wouldn't have a problem with Aang deciding not to be a monk anymore at the end of ATLA (though optimally I'd want him to stay as a celibate monk, because Katara marries Zuko). Again, it's really strange writing on the part of the writers because the idea of monks is not foreign to Western world. How can you start a character off as a monk, and then have him mate like bunnies without ever renouncing monkhood?

[Metahuman1]

That's interesting since I've heard of Shoulin monks who are part of multiple generation lines of Shoulin Monks.

[BRC]

If they decide to not be monks anymore, yes. Same as Catholic priests I think?
Celibacy is an integral part of monkhood; same in both the East and the West.

Storywise, I wouldn't have a problem with Aang deciding not to be a monk anymore at the end of ATLA (though optimally I'd want him to stay as a celibate monk, because Katara marries Zuko). Again, it's really strange writing on the part of the writers because the idea of monks is not foreign to Western world. How can you start a character off as a monk, and then have him mate like bunnies without ever renouncing monkhood?

1) "Monk" is a western term, the people we think of as asian-style monks probably have their own words for it, we just say "Monk" and "Monastary" because those were the closest English terms/some european traveler heard about a bunch of spiritual bald guys living together in the mountains and said "Hey Look! Monks!". I'm not going to call myself an expert, but I wouldn't assume any similarities between the two besides the whole "life of spiritual reflection" thing.

2) this is a fictional setting. If the creators say that Airbender Monks don't have to be celibate, then they don't have to be.

3) Are we sure that every airbender was a monk? They're referred to as "Air Nomads", despite having very sedentary Temples. I've always imagined most of them as being nomadic, flying around on their sky bison, though that would make it difficult to genocide them unless they all came together to defend the temples or something.

[Morty]

Hmm. So, Aang was blatantly favouring his airbending child. Interesting.

I do agree that the writers' decision to make bending mostly genetic is a bad one, though.

[BRC]

Hmm. So, Aang was blatantly favouring his airbending child. Interesting.

I do agree that the writers' decision to make bending mostly genetic is a bad one, though.

It may be bad, but it's also part of the premise. It's even in the title, "The Last Airbender".
If bending wasn't genetic, then even if Aang didn't survive, he wouldn't necessarily be the Last Airbender.

Plus, bending being cultural brings with it all sorts of questions and grey areas. Which part of the Culture is it? Earth Kingdom people are noted to be stubborn and strong-willed? Is that the culture? Could a Water Tribe member become an Earthbender if they were stubborn enough? What if a Fire Nation citizen thought it was a bit cold out, so he started wearing thick furs, putting hard "K" sounds in his name, and going spear-fishing from a canoe. Could his children become waterbenders?

I admit that genetic bending is problematic, but getting rid of it would poke more holes in the setting, and fixing those holes could change the setting away from the world we love.

[Ravian]

I always assumed that Air Nomad culture was nomadic, doesn't make sense to use the name otherwise. It's only that we generally see the Temples because

A: Aang was a monk and so that's the aspect of the culture he's most familiar with.

B: Those are probably the only solid structures they built, so that's all that's really left after 100 years.

It's probably possible that it was many of the Air Benders of the nomads were trained and lived in the temples, but that other Nomads, some benders, some non-bender were scattered about.

The way the Fire Nation got the rest was through persistent hunting throughout the world along with traps. Probably most of the nomads followed predictable routes through the world to each of the temples (since those were the hubs of Air Nomad culture) so they were able to coordinate the genocide.

One of the comics actually during Season 1 actually had Zhao attempt to capture Aang through one of these traps, planting stolen Air Nomad items on traveling merchants with stories of trading for them from strange tattooed individuals up in the mountains, the nomads go to investigate the stories and the Fire Nation's there to round them up.

Plus it makes more sense considering that from the flashbacks the temples (At least the Southern and the Eastern) were divided by gender (Southern was all Men and Eastern (aside from the kids receiving Bison) all Women.)

[BRC]

I always assumed that Air Nomad culture was nomadic, doesn't make sense to use the name otherwise. It's only that we generally see the Temples because

A: Aang was a monk and so that's the aspect of the culture he's most familiar with.

B: Those are probably the only solid structures they built, so that's all that's really left after 100 years.

It's probably possible that it was many of the Air Benders of the nomads were trained and lived in the temples, but that other Nomads, some benders, some non-bender were scattered about.

The way the Fire Nation got the rest was through persistent hunting throughout the world along with traps. Probably most of the nomads followed predictable routes through the world to each of the temples (since those were the hubs of Air Nomad culture) so they were able to coordinate the genocide.

One of the comics actually during Season 1 actually had Zhao attempt to capture Aang through one of these traps, planting stolen Air Nomad items on traveling merchants with stories of trading for them from strange tattooed individuals up in the mountains, the nomads go to investigate the stories and the Fire Nation's there to round them up.

Plus it makes more sense considering that from the flashbacks the temples (At least the Southern and the Eastern) were divided by gender (Southern was all Men and Eastern (aside from the kids receiving Bison) all Women.)
Except that most of the global landmass is earth kingdom, plus the Air Nomads had a monopoly on flight, so it would be hard to hunt them down unless you first conquered the Earth Kingdom, unless Fire nation troops just wandered through the Earth Kingdom saying "Don't mind us, just committing genocide over here!"

I find it more likely that after the western temple was attacked all the Air Nomads flocked to defend either the North or South temples and were wiped out there.

That said, the map DOES show some areas that seem to be marked as "Air Nomad territory", mainly consisting of mountain ranges. It's possible that the Air Nomads generally stuck to those mountains, so they could be wiped out without an invasion of the Earth Kingdom.

[Jayngfet]

...What have I done?:smalleek:

Nothing that doesn't flare up too often anyway. A few playgrounders have ...interesting... views on morality that don't fit with reality or any kind of practical observation.

[t209]

That's interesting since I've heard of Shoulin monks who are part of multiple generation lines of Shoulin Monks.
Maybe brothers and sisters of the same monk, or the monk decided to derobe, have kids, and convinced them to be a monk, or like
Leslie (AKA the successor of the "murderer" Dread Pirate Roberts). (sorry, I'm Burmese Buddhist, which means we don't have warrior monk and the monastery is relatively safe against raiders, at least me and my dad reads loads of martial arts story).
P.S- Plus the show is not for adults (rating standards), and they didn't try to show the mating stuff or ignore about it. Same as the Mules in My Little Pony, either the writer ignore or did not know about the making of Horse-Donkey hybrid.

[Jayngfet]

To change the subject, lets talk ratings for a bit here.

Korra pulled 2.6 million. Last seasons premier was just over 4.5 million and the lowest for season 1 was 2.9, closer to 3.0 than 2.9.

They moved the show to a much less ideal timeslot and had it up against some serious competition, and ratings were lowish that weekend all around considering Toonami and fall meaning more competition, but that's still a major drop for a season premier for a networks premier property.

All things considered though I think this one is on the entire network. Literally every site and every viewer I know hated some very specific elements of season one, and a lot of the pre-release stuff for season two was about how those elements would be returning. A large part of Season 2 was built before anyone could get an outside reaction as to why Season 1 did what it did right and what it did wrong. Combine that with a much softer marketing campaign and it basically means that neither the hardcore fans nor the general audiences will have much of a reason to like your work.

Given that Season 3 is already in production and the money's been spent, and Season 4 is probably going to be made long before Season 3 is done, I don't think there's much of a chance that anybody on board can just stop the show and take a good, long look with what works and what doesn't.

[Flickerdart]

I just thought of something that puts into question the Unalaq theory we've settled on over the last few pages.


Sure, the roving spirits are very recent...but the Everstorm has been around for a pretty long time. Granted, Korra didn't quiet it the same way that Unalaq dealt with the spirits, but there's still something to "giant storm that the physical embodiment of the bridge with the spirit world can quiet by touch" that suggests it was a result of restless spirits. Unalaq didn't necessarily just decide to spawn some spirits and then conquer the South - he may have decided that the Everstorm was proof of their decadent ways, and the spirits showing up is unrelated.

[The Troubadour]

Just a few general comments:

1) The growing tensions between Benders and non-Benders wasn't created out of whole cloth by Amon and Tarrlok; we saw many civilians at rallies in favour of the Equalists' causes.
However, I can understand why it wouldn't be so much an issue anymore, at least for now: Amon being outed as "merely" a power-hungry manipulator would demoralize the movement, and the disbandment of the Bender council would probably satisfy most people anyway.

2) Bending, by its very nature, can't be a genetic trait (or at least solely a genetic trait): the first Benders learned it from animals and spirits, after all. While not everyone can become a Bender, it seems that's because of a lack of spiritual talents, rather than genetic ones (Sokka was Katara's brother, after all, but he still had no Bending talent - and neither did their father).
Also, ALL Air Nomads in the original series were Benders, while most Water, Fire or Earth people weren't. I can't recall if that was addressed in the series proper or in interviews with the writers, but that was because the Air Nomads were a highly spiritual culture.
Then again, the new series doesn't outright say Bending is genetic, either; it could be just that Tenzin never found anyone other than his own children (and Korra, obviously) with the spiritual talent required for Airbending. Maybe the Airbending gift is just a lot rarer than the other ones.

[MLai]

To change the subject, lets talk ratings for a bit here.
Korra pulled 2.6 million. Last seasons premier was just over 4.5 million and the lowest for season 1 was 2.9, closer to 3.0 than 2.9.
The franchise's writing really isn't that good (ATLA and LOK). I like the show because of the (1)awesome fantasy martial arts animation, (2)awesome Ghibli-Western fusion art style, and (3)willingness to handle mature subjects and have a cohesive plotline, but outside of those 2 factors the 2 writers are pretty Meh.
Visit Saph's ATLA thread and you see all the writing problems plaguing ATLA. Even the supporters admit many of the criticisms are true.
LOK is worse, but in a way you can't just say "Well they're also writing for kids." As usual those 2 writing buddies start off with great ideas but it seems they are really out of their depth or something.

[Pokonic]

1) "Monk" is a western term, the people we think of as asian-style monks probably have their own words for it, we just say "Monk" and "Monastary" because those were the closest English terms/some european traveler heard about a bunch of spiritual bald guys living together in the mountains and said "Hey Look! Monks!". I'm not going to call myself an expert, but I wouldn't assume any similarities between the two besides the whole "life of spiritual reflection" thing.

2) this is a fictional setting. If the creators say that Airbender Monks don't have to be celibate, then they don't have to be.

3) Are we sure that every airbender was a monk? They're referred to as "Air Nomads", despite having very sedentary Temples. I've always imagined most of them as being nomadic, flying around on their sky bison, though that would make it difficult to genocide them unless they all came together to defend the temples or something.


Just a few general comments:

1) The growing tensions between Benders and non-Benders wasn't created out of whole cloth by Amon and Tarrlok; we saw many civilians at rallies in favour of the Equalists' causes.
However, I can understand why it wouldn't be so much an issue anymore, at least for now: Amon being outed as "merely" a power-hungry manipulator would demoralize the movement, and the disbandment of the Bender council would probably satisfy most people anyway.

2) Bending, by its very nature, can't be a genetic trait (or at least solely a genetic trait): the first Benders learned it from animals and spirits, after all. While not everyone can become a Bender, it seems that's because of a lack of spiritual talents, rather than genetic ones (Sokka was Katara's brother, after all, but he still had no Bending talent - and neither did their father).
Also, ALL Air Nomads in the original series were Benders, while most Water, Fire or Earth people weren't. I can't recall if that was addressed in the series proper or in interviews with the writers, but that was because the Air Nomads were a highly spiritual culture.
Then again, the new series doesn't outright say Bending is genetic, either; it could be just that Tenzin never found anyone other than his own children (and Korra, obviously) with the spiritual talent required for Airbending. Maybe the Airbending gift is just a lot rarer than the other ones.

It's probably a healthy mix of both culture and genetics along with a nice dose of "What the spirits want."

After all, Tenzin was "The Last Airbender" for a few years until his first child was born, and it's clear that he inherited a lot from Aang compared to his siblings. But, perhaps because of this, he found a need to 'carry on' so to speak. His non-bender brother seems to be a conformed bachalor type and his sister doesn't seem to be married, so it's possible that the spirits pretty much chose the one guy to develop the "carry on the airbending way" thing he has going on, geneticly and appearence-wise, to maximize the potental 'iddle airbenders that are going to be the one's who stablize the population again.

[thubby]

there could be a secondary trait that does something else and also allows bending. like chlorophyll just happens to be green, so plants are generally green. given the spiritual nature of the show, a strong spirit could be heritable.

[Morty]

It may be bad, but it's also part of the premise. It's even in the title, "The Last Airbender".
If bending wasn't genetic, then even if Aang didn't survive, he wouldn't necessarily be the Last Airbender.

Plus, bending being cultural brings with it all sorts of questions and grey areas. Which part of the Culture is it? Earth Kingdom people are noted to be stubborn and strong-willed? Is that the culture? Could a Water Tribe member become an Earthbender if they were stubborn enough? What if a Fire Nation citizen thought it was a bit cold out, so he started wearing thick furs, putting hard "K" sounds in his name, and going spear-fishing from a canoe. Could his children become waterbenders?

I admit that genetic bending is problematic, but getting rid of it would poke more holes in the setting, and fixing those holes could change the setting away from the world we love.

The first series left was vague about just what makes benders benders and determines the type of bending. Or, in other words:


Just a few general comments:

1) The growing tensions between Benders and non-Benders wasn't created out of whole cloth by Amon and Tarrlok; we saw many civilians at rallies in favour of the Equalists' causes.
However, I can understand why it wouldn't be so much an issue anymore, at least for now: Amon being outed as "merely" a power-hungry manipulator would demoralize the movement, and the disbandment of the Bender council would probably satisfy most people anyway.

2) Bending, by its very nature, can't be a genetic trait (or at least solely a genetic trait): the first Benders learned it from animals and spirits, after all. While not everyone can become a Bender, it seems that's because of a lack of spiritual talents, rather than genetic ones (Sokka was Katara's brother, after all, but he still had no Bending talent - and neither did their father).
Also, ALL Air Nomads in the original series were Benders, while most Water, Fire or Earth people weren't. I can't recall if that was addressed in the series proper or in interviews with the writers, but that was because the Air Nomads were a highly spiritual culture.

This. Benders had to learn their bending arts at some point. Once upon a time, there were non-benders who became earthbenders, airbenders and so on.


Then again, the new series doesn't outright say Bending is genetic, either; it could be just that Tenzin never found anyone other than his own children (and Korra, obviously) with the spiritual talent required for Airbending. Maybe the Airbending gift is just a lot rarer than the other ones.

That's possible. I suppose I just don't have a lot of trust in the writers by now.

[MLai]

I'm hoping to see more martial arts return to this series. I'm beginning to like the "modern fighting" less and less. It's beginning to feel DBZ-ish. Did the sifu refuse to work with them again or something?
S1 didn't grate on me in this respect because there was a certain steampunk feel to the city, and there were the chi-blockers. So Team Korra being essentially glorified kickboxers with no individual MA personality didn't register on my rardar.
But now the setting is all ethnic and spiritual, and her uncle is all spirits this spirituality that... I want to see martial ARTS again. Hopefully uncle kicks her kickboxing ass with his orthodox tai chi waterbending, during training.

That's possible. I suppose I just don't have a lot of trust in the writers by now.
You're not the only one.
I don't see how Aang's situation means that bending must be genetic (besides the fact that the original benders learned bending). He's the last Airbender because he's the last surviving Air Temple monk. If he dies, the entire firsthand tradition dies with him, along with the Airbending philosophy and martial art. That should have been why Airbending would be lost if he died, not whether he had kids.

[HamHam]

She may have only been in the card game, but I for one refuse to believe Malu is not canon.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121129063155/avatar/images/8/8a/Cardgame_Malu.png

[Sith_Happens]

She may have only been in the card game, but I for one refuse to believe Malu is not canon.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121129063155/avatar/images/8/8a/Cardgame_Malu.png

Who?:smallconfused:

[HamHam]

Who?:smallconfused:

Her backstory from the wiki:


Malu arose as a figure of Earth Kingdom legend in the years following the Fire Nation's first strikes. An enigmatic beauty who supposedly controlled the spirits and seemingly vanished and appeared at will, Malu was truly an airbender whose mother hid her in a mountain cave to escape the Fire Nation's storming of the Eastern Air Temple. Her parents were airbending monks and some of the Hundred Year War's first casualties. For years, she lived a solitary existence in the forest, but, ten years into the War, she stopped hiding and began attacking Fire Nation soldiers. Despite not having a teacher under whom to train, she quickly mastered the airbending skills that helped her survive for so long.
Afterward, some say she made her home in the mountain passes, and villagers paid tribute to the spirit who protected the forest so long ago.

Realistically I think stories like that would have been common, and we should have more than a few descendants of air benders who went into hiding. Although as previously pointed out, they would lack the cultural heritage that Aang preserves.

[Morty]

I kind of wish the inhabitants of the Northern Air Temple had become airbenders. Aang even says that Theo has an airbender's spirit at the end of that episode.

[dehro]

The way I see it, air nomads are such because they migrate from temple to temple, or as a remnant from before the building of said temples, representing their fleeting free spirit.
If memory serves me well, before the War, all air nomads were benders, but not all were monks.
As for the first two episodes:
I'm somewhat underwhelmed by the characters...by Korra in particular.
ok, only 6 months have passed..but she seems not to have learned a thing or matured at all.
I already was displeased about how she got the avatar state and her bending pretty much handed to her in the season 1 finale in a matter of minutes.. it seems though she really hasn't learned a thing, which is somewhat disappointing because throughout the entire run of AtlA, personal growth and learning things was pretty much central to the entire plot just as much as the.. plot itself.
instead we get introduced to her sourfaced uncle who is patently a jerk and within a matter of seconds she dumps her father and her teacher/tutor to run off with uncle sourgrapes and his creepy android children.
also, Tenzin himself manages this in the worst possible way and it seems that neither he nor her father have learned squat about how to deal with Korra either. does Tenzin not know Korra at all by now? not even after all they've gone through in season 1? I was kinda expecting Katara to smack him on the head for how he (well..the plot) was forcing Korra into stupidity.
not to mention that not informing the Avatar about spiritual unrest and accidents must equate pretty much to high treason on Tenzin's part.
ok, it's a show for children..well.. ok, teens... but the first episode in particular grates me quite a bit because of how strongly the plot points are pushed down my throat to force it all along. pacing was a big, big issue in season 1, and now they've gone and quickstepped Korra into a new plotline at Benny Hill speed and through a few nonsensical and forced decisions by some of the main characters. that doesn't bode well.
also.. who else called it that king sourface wanted to get his hands on his big brother's playground? I know I did.
and how does Korra plan to open the portal? basically by punching it? and she's still swallowing anything someone says for the purpose of driving the plot along, without any critical thinking or indeed..any introspection at all...
(also, she's not giving her father even the benefit of the doubt?)
Aang was all about finding ways to make things work.. Korra is (still) all about punching stuff and stumbling by accident into making things work when punching doesn't help.
So she REALLY hasn't learned squat then..despite being able to call upon the avatar state and, I immagine since it comes with the territory, her predecessors.

I still like the show visually and there are some funny bits (and I expect some memorable ones too, given time).. but.. no, so far I'm not really excited.
I kinda want her to step down from Avatar and let Bolin have a go. he can't do much worse and he too has a pet

[Kd7sov]

The way I see it, air nomads are such because they migrate from temple to temple, or as a remnant from before the building of said temples, representing their fleeting free spirit.
If memory serves me well, before the War, all air nomads were benders, but not all were monks.

One might note that in Aang's flashbacks, we see young boys and old men at the SAT, but nothing in between.

[Beige Dragon]

Not read the rest of the thread yet, but...

So, we saw the spirits were angry. Fair enough, people were being jerks. And I get it, that owl spirit attacked them because they were going back to the south pole. HOWEVER, that !SNAKE! spirit attacked Korra very viciously, and once she started trying to re-open the portal(It being closed MAKES the spirits angry), it did all that it could to stop her. Hmm, why would it do that? Well, earlier it was said there are no evil spirits, and that they were just angry. But there IS one evil spirit. Koh. The face stealer. Strangely, he too is a snake(Or worm, really, its hard to tell) type creature. He is shown to be clearly malevolent, and I theorize he was that worm/snake/centipede-type spirit. After all, we never see it go all golden and glow.

[Sith_Happens]

Not read the rest of the thread yet, but...

So, we saw the spirits were angry. Fair enough, people were being jerks. And I get it, that owl spirit attacked them because they were going back to the south pole. HOWEVER, that !SNAKE! spirit attacked Korra very viciously, and once she started trying to re-open the portal(It being closed MAKES the spirits angry), it did all that it could to stop her. Hmm, why would it do that? Well, earlier it was said there are no evil spirits, and that they were just angry. But there IS one evil spirit. Koh. The face stealer. Strangely, he too is a snake(Or worm, really, its hard to tell) type creature. He is shown to be clearly malevolent, and I theorize he was that worm/snake/centipede-type spirit. After all, we never see it go all golden and glow.

I think it's just that not all spirits have the same level of intelligence. So the snakes didn't necessarily recognize Korra or know that she was trying to help, they just knew they were angry and she was a human on sacred ground.

EDIT: Hoping this doesn't open a can of worms, but how long should we spoiler things for?

[Hyena]

Did the new episode air already?

[AMX]

Did the new episode air already?

If I read the schedule correctly (what with being in a different time zone and all)...

No.
It'll start in 5 hours, 41 minutes.

[Reddish Mage]

The Avatar/Airbender stories must be good, as I keep watching them, of course, my martial arts training allows me to really appreciate the inclusion of serious martial arts in the bending. However, in making this show more "suitable for family viewing" I think the designers are dumbing down the show. The inability to portray or make more than the most oblique references to death is not the most problematic, its the fact that loss and emotional pain in general are anesthetized.

We saw the end of the first season with everything being wrapped neatly in a bow towards the end, with everything between Korra and Mako being worked out (despite some choices they both made that could have lead to a more rocky road for the two), Lin was spared any permanent injury, and Korra simply had her powers restored rather than having to really work for it.

The second season is also set up with several promisingly serious themes, but as the first season didn't really address the underlying dissatisfaction that allowed the Equalists-movement to thrive. I don't have high expectations that the second season is going to go to the root causes of strife.

[Sith_Happens]

The Avatar/Airbender stories must be good, as I keep watching them, of course, my martial arts training allows me to really appreciate the inclusion of serious martial arts in the bending. However, in making this show more "suitable for family viewing" I think the designers are dumbing down the show. The inability to portray or make more than the most oblique references to death is not the most problematic, its the fact that loss and emotional pain in general are anesthetized.

We saw the end of the first season with everything being wrapped neatly in a bow towards the end, with everything between Korra and Mako being worked out (despite some choices they both made that could have lead to a more rocky road for the two), Lin was spared any permanent injury, and Korra simply had her powers restored rather than having to really work for it.

The second season is also set up with several promisingly serious themes, but as the first season didn't really address the underlying dissatisfaction that allowed the Equalists-movement to thrive. I don't have high expectations that the second season is going to go to the root causes of strife.

Last season's ending wasn't because of the show's rating, it was because there was possibly only going to be one season. Not that they couldn't have left one or two points slightly more open, but they decided they didn't want to and it was far too late to change their minds by the time even the first episode aired.

[Ravian]

EDIT: Hoping this doesn't open a can of worms, but how long should we spoiler things for?

Probably should wait a day or two until the episode is available online (some people might want to find links to the episode on the thread if they miss it on tv and not have to worry about spoilers.

[Grey Watcher]

At the end of the most recent extra "Stuff Bolin Says" there's a shot of him in formal wear, in which he honestly looks kinda adorably awkward.

[Burner28]

This show is awesome. It may be random and irrelevant to the current conversation, but I felt like saying it.:smallsmile:

[Jayngfet]

So given Mako's comments, he considered Assami a bloodsucking leech during her most vulnerable moments.

[Metahuman1]

Whens the new ep gonna be online? (I won't be able to watch it till it is.)

And is there gonna be a link put up here when that happens? ( I hope.).

[John Cribati]

So given Mako's comments, he considered Assami a bloodsucking leech during her most vulnerable moments.

Mako being a... Richard is nothing new.

[Gamerlord]

They only thing they could have done with that scene with him sitting on the throne make to Unalaq look more obviously evil would be to give him a white lemur to pet.

[Razanir]

If I read the schedule correctly (what with being in a different time zone and all)...

No.
It'll start in 5 hours, 41 minutes.

Grumble, grumble, grumble. Well this was an annoying was to find out they meant 7 EASTERN not 7 CENTRAL

[Jayngfet]

Mako being a... Richard is nothing new.




Yeah, but the writers seem to think he's still Sympathetic for some ungodly reason.




In any case, this was better than last week. I'm willing to give this another episode to see if it'll pick up or at least stabilize at mediocre.


As well, I still wanna say the background art bugs the crap out of me. It's inconsistent with character design and it's incredibly muddily done in a few shots. Painterly set pieces can work, but they just don't here when it's obvious someone dashed them off in photoshop kinda quickly.