Unarmed Warblade

[tricktroller]

Hey everyone! It's been awhile since I've been on here but I will be playing again sometime soon and I wanted to try something I haven't done before. My friend is running a game and book of nine swords is allowed so I figured I'd play something I haven;t before.

So the character is your basic dumb brutish barroom bouncer and one day a warblade enters the bar and gets into a fight, and when he tries to stop the warblade the warblade kicks his butt. The next day he wake sup and tracks down the warblade and demands that he teach him how to kick butt.

So I will be playing a human warblade who uses unarmed strikes. Any suggestions for making a good one? No flaws, core books, complete books, eph, ToB, allowed nothing else.

I appreciate your help in this matter.

[Snowbluff]

Hmm... Monk2(Barf)/WarblerX. Your flurry would be lacking... What's that PrC that gives Monk abilities?

I think an Unarmed Swordsage would work better. SS3/Monk2/ShadowSunNinja.

Either way, pick up Snap Kick.

[A.A.King]

You don't need Monk if you get Superior Unarmed Strike. It is probably better for a Warblade build then 2 Monk levels. You might want to try to get 2 Levels City Brawler Barbarian. It's from a Dragon Magazine so it's a long shot but if you can get it you'll get the normal Barbarian Goodness plus free Improved Unarmed Strike + Two Weapon Fighting (with Unarmed Strike only) (you trade away Medium and Heavy Armor Profiency + Martial Weapon Profiency but you'll get that back with Warblade)

But if you can't get that, remember feats you'll probably need are Improved Unarmed Strike, Superior Unarmed Strike and Snap Kick

[Snowbluff]

The Monk levels are for stunning fist, flurry, and potential Carmedine/Kung Fu Genius.

[Gigas Breaker]

Take the unarmed feats and choose whatever maneuvers you like. You are finished.

[A.A.King]

The Monk levels are for stunning fist, flurry, and potential Carmedine/Kung Fu Genius.

I can't believe I forgot about Stunning fist and the Intelligence synergy if you take Kung Fu Genius. But it still might not fit well the fluff of the character. Plus the fact he'd have to not wear armor for the AC bonus and the Flurry.

[tricktroller]

Yeah his Int is an 8. I would prefer a single classed build and I already said all the tings that would be allowed. Those aren't negotiable.

Do I take stone dragon maneuvers and stances? Would TWF be a viable option for this big hulking monster?

I want to wear razored armor and hug things and punch things with my huge sunken knuckled hands.

[Gigas Breaker]

Diamond mind, tiger claw, iron heart, and stone dragon all have stuff that feel like kung fu. Pick the ones you think are good or will make you look cool. They are mostly all good to go.

[tricktroller]

would a dual wielding unarmed shadow hand swordsage be a better version of this?

[Aegis013]

Considering your Int, it would be fine to go Warblade 20, or if your DM allows Eternal Blade for non-elves, Warblade 10/Eternal Blade 10.

Focus on Tiger Claw for pummeling. Going TWF is a very reasonable choice, seeing as you can't two hand an unarmed strike (or at least, I don't think you can).

If you've never used Tome of Battle before, you'll probably want to try to pick up White Raven Tactics because my goodness is it amazingly good, and Iron Heart Surge for the same reasons, just... use them sensibly. White Raven Tactics says an ally, so if your DM allows you to be your own ally, it can be pretty absurd, and Iron Heart Surge is fairly vaguely written so it is applicable to some things that don't make sense. I just recommend using your better judgement with your table's atmosphere/culture. Even without absurd uses, these maneuvers are extremely good.

[Waddacku]

That would make you a magical ninja. It works for punching people to death, of course, but it's certainly a different style.

Really, though, your original concept is fine. Pick maneuvers according to the style you want him to fight in. Tiger Claw is good for leaping over people while punching them in the face, for instance. You might want Superior Unarmed Strike, maybe. Definitely Snap Kick. It's kind of like flurry of blows or two-weapon fighting, except it works on martial strikes as well.

[Aegis013]

Diamond mind, tiger claw, iron heart, and stone dragon all have stuff that feel like kung fu. Pick the ones you think are good or will make you look cool. They are mostly all good to go.

Don't forget Setting Sun. That one is very kung fu-esque.


would a dual wielding unarmed shadow hand swordsage be a better version of this?

Better is debatable, it would likely feel more like a mystical monk/ninja than an unarmed brawler, as the previous poster stated. That does mean you get access to some very cool abilities that can be amazing outside of combat, such as Shadow Jaunt for 50ft teleports early on.

[Vortenger]

You might want to try to get 2 Levels City Brawler Barbarian. It's from a Dragon Magazine...

Which one? This completes a build stub I've had hanging around forever.

[Gigas Breaker]

Warblades don't get Setting Sun.

[Karnith]

Which one? This completes a build stub I've had hanging around forever.
City Brawler is a Barbarian variant class feature from Dragon Magazine #349, in the Class Acts section.

[tricktroller]

What do you mean it works on martial strikes as well? SO if I used steel wind to get an extra attack I would get two extra attacks?

[Person_Man]

Can he be beaten up by a Swordsage instead? Because Unarmed Swordsage just works better. Unarmed Warblade is basically just a Warblade who has decided to nerf himself by not using a magic weapon.

[tricktroller]

would monk 2 warblade 18 be better? Might make a little more sense that he is an unarmed fighter. First learned from a monk and then learned more from a warblade? It would make the feat intensive nature of what I want a lot easier to achieve.

Human TWF
1st ?
M1 Imp Grapple
M2 Deflect Arrows
3rd ?
6th Superior UAS

Or just one level of monk to get all the extra feats?

[tricktroller]

This won't be a highly optimized game.

[Jeff the Green]

would monk 2 warblade 18 be better? Might make a little more sense that he is an unarmed fighter. First learned from a monk and then learned more from a warblade? It would make the feat intensive nature of what I want a lot easier to achieve.

Human TWF
1st ?
M1 Imp Grapple
M2 Deflect Arrows
3rd ?
6th Superior UAS

Or just one level of monk to get all the extra feats?

I would suggest something a bit different. Fighter 2/Unarmed Swordsage 2/Warblade 2/Blood Claw Master 1/Master of Nine 5/Bloodclaw Master +4/Warblade +4.

Human: Dodge
1st: TWF
Fighter: Blindfight
Fighter: Improved Initiative
UAS: Improved Unarmed Strike
3rd: Adaptive Stype
6th: Superior Unarmed Strike
9th: Snap Kick

You focus on Tiger Claw, but use MoN to pick up choice maneuvers from other disciplines (particularly Diamond Mind, Setting Sun and Iron Heart). For this reason, you might intersperse MoN levels among the Bloodclaw Master levels. both of the prestige classes should progress Warblade.

[tricktroller]

What do you think about this as a completely different style of warblade?
Fighter 2 Warblade 18

Human Imp Shield bash
1st TWF
F1 Oversized TWF
F2 Shield Charge
3rd Masrtial study Mighty throw
6th Imp TWF

[tricktroller]

He would use a heavy razored shield and a longsword and a flail if needed.

[Waddacku]

What do you mean it works on martial strikes as well? SO if I used steel wind to get an extra attack I would get two extra attacks?

No, you'd just get one more attack. Steel Wind doesn't give you extra attacks, either, it just lets you attack twice. Snap Kick would give you an attack on top of that, using your unarmed strike with only half Str mod to damage, and it and both the Steel Wind attacks would take a -2 penalty to hit.

[tricktroller]

also biggest question what on earth are the weapons listed with each discipline for? Can you only use those strikes stances etc while using one of those weapons?

[tricktroller]

ah ok thanks Wadda. SO in essence I would be getting 3 attacks using that at first level.

[Urpriest]

also biggest question what on earth are the weapons listed with each discipline for? Can you only use those strikes stances etc while using one of those weapons?

They apply to specific, discipline-themed feats, like Shadow Blade. They aren't general restrictions.

Anyway, in general using two unarmed strikes for TWF is controversial unless you're a city-brawler barbarian, so you need to ask your DM which interpretation he's using.

[tricktroller]

alrighty. Well how does this strike everyone

Main hand razored spiked heavy shield, off hand shortsword

Human TWF
1st Imp Shield Bash
3rd Shield Charge
6th Imp TWF

I know it isn't optimal but there is no way I will be able to get pounce on this guy. However, he will run up using Battleleader's charge and punch a guy for 2d6+4(STR)+10(BLC) Damage and get to trip them for free. So it will be pretty gross as it is.

[Urpriest]

alrighty. Well how does this strike everyone

Main hand razored spiked heavy shield, off hand shortsword

Human TWF
1st Imp Shield Bash
3rd Shield Charge
6th Imp TWF

I know it isn't optimal but there is no way I will be able to get pounce on this guy. However, he will run up using Battleleader's charge and punch a guy for 2d6+4(STR)+10(BLC) Damage and get to trip them for free. So it will be pretty gross as it is.

Eventually you can pick up the Pouncing Charge maneuver for Pounce.

[tricktroller]

What level is that?

[tricktroller]

5th level tiger claw? So I have to be 9th level before I get it?

[A.A.King]

You've been throwing around quiet a lot of ideas now. Maybe it is best if you just decided first what kind of character you want to play. Don't worry about the mechanics just tell how you would like his personality to be and what kind of things you would like to do? It's much easier to just start from there. Also, you might want to mention what his stats are because if you say he has an INT of 8 then it's clear you already rolled/decided that. So just tell what is fixed and what you would like to be able to do.

[Urpriest]

5th level tiger claw? So I have to be 9th level before I get it?

Yup. It's a bit late in the progression, but in the early levels you've got things like Wolf Fang Strike to do multiple mobile attacks anyway.

[tricktroller]

it should be 37 point point buy.

Str 18
Dex 16
Con 16
Int 9
Wis 8
Cha 8

I was thinking about doing twf with a heavy spiked and razored shield and using a short sword in my off hand. both do a d6 but if I use punishing stance then I am dual wielding great swords. This character will be a tank character and will probably never get past level 6 or 8.