I need help with a level 8 human monk

[Monsu]

Alright a little back story on the campaign I will be starting soon, there are 5 other players and we were given a list of 5 classes we had to be and races, I was stuck with the human monk, now we will be being transported to a non-magical world but that's pretty much all the information I have, I need help building a good monk, I usually go tashalatora when playing a monk but psionics is not allowed, does anyone have good builds builds or suggestions? point buy system is 38 points and we have as much starting gold as our classes allow at level 8

Right now I've gone the vop route seeing as there won't be a readily amount of magical items available to me but I can't help but think it's wrong.

[The Mentalist]

If your DM is being honest with you and it is a non-magic world then VoP isn't actually the trap it usually is.

Before we can give you much more information than that though we'd need to know what sources are available (can you multiclass? take Martial Study or a ToB maneuver? What books can we pull gear from?) If you don't go VoP get some Shapesand. It's useful stuff.

[ArcturusV]

One of the keys too is to ask if you can PrC out. Monks have, some decent PrC options as almost every monk PrC still advances monk abilities.

So if you're going for a level 8 monk, I'd probably build one that is more like Monk 5, Tattooed Monk 1, Shintao Monk 2. And go from there.

One thing you might want to make sure is that, well, Monks get a lot of "magic" abilities and Su abilities. Check to make sure the 'no magic" rule doesn't shut them down otherwise you might as well just take Improved Unarmed Strike and 8 levels of Fighter and call yourself a Monk.

[Gavinfoxx]

Hmmm. Yea, I wouldn't do vow of poverty; who KNOWS what mundane or technological gear you might be able to find?

And you can certainly be magical! I would be a:

Wild Monk, Holy Strike, Invisible Fist, Resistant Body (Fire) for your ACF's.

If you are going to be Exalted, be Exalted for Exalted Wild Shape. Also things like Frozen Wild Shape and Draconic Wild Shape would be good too.

Remember that, by default, Monk is one of the more magical classes out there. If your GM doesn't believe you, open the PHB and point to how many supernatural abilities they get. If you want a martial brawler, be an ACFed barbarian...

[Ramza00]

What books do you have avaliable?

Flaws allowed?

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

Be very careful. Being given a list of classes you have to be would make big ol' warning bells go off in my head. Before you start building the character, nail down what kind of magic you're expecting, and what kind of loot. If anything goes when you spend your initial cash, then skip VoP. If you're restricted entirely to mundane gear, then VoP might be alright, as long as that's how the campaign is going to be forever. And if that's the case, then Enlightened Fist is the best direction to go, if you're allowed, because having magic > not having magic, even if you want to beat stuff up.

Monks as written aren't very good. You'll need to focus on the advantages you have, and focus in on a solid concept. If you try to spread yourself thin, you'll be useless at everything, but if you specialize you can be an asset. Pretty much, you'll have to decide whether you want to do damage or be a battlefield controller. That'll be your main focus, and you can do some moderately useful scouting and such.

Really, the best thing you can do is to have as little Monk as possible while preserving the monk flavor. If Unarmed Swordsage is on the table, take it and don't look back. If it's not, then see if you can go in the Wizard->Enlightened Fist->Abjurant Champion direction (or the Cleric->Sacred Fist direction). If that's not available, hope you can pick up some fighter levels for feats and BAB, because every Monk level past 6 is bad. Paladin with the Serenity feat isn't a bad option either. Fist of the Forest is extremely good. Shiba Protector 1 is one of the best levels in any non-casting PrC out there, but the feat tax stinks if you don't have Flaws. If you do, it still stinks but mmmm +wis to damage and attack. With Intuitive Attack and Paladin 2+Serenity, you can have Wisdom to attack, damage, AC, saves and attack again, because the SP ability doesn't replace, it just adds. If you can figure out a way to get some sort of shapechanging, then Warshaper is really good for you.

How locked in to Human are you? Could you be a Dragonborn Mongrelfolk? It's basically Human but with tasty Constitution and flight, which will be desperately important in a low/no magic world, especially if your party has casters in it. (If you're very locked in, that's ok. Humans are great.) How about Templates? Level 6 is basically the highest you should ever take Monk, and if you want to go VoP, you're already committed to being Exalted, so Saint would be perfect.

Look at the Decisive Strike (PHB2) and Passive Way (UA) ACFs; they're both pretty good. Holy Strike from CC might be useful as well. Invisible Fist from EoE is quite tasty.

As for feats, you'll need to decide which way you want to specialize. Snap Kick and Superior Unarmed Strike are very good for people focusing on damage, while Karmic Strike and Robilar's Gambit are excellent AOO generators if you're going battlefield control. Inhuman Reach gives you extra reach but is a two feat investment. Broken Fist Mastery I and II and Knock-Down are sick good if you have Improved Trip, but they're 3.0. Freezing the Lifeblood is better than Stunning Fist, but it's not incredible if you're struggling with feats. Elusive Target might keep you from going splat if the DM likes his enemies to use Power Attack.

Make sure to have 5 ranks of Balance so you don't get owned by Grease. Tumble is necessary for a while so you can move in combat without AoOs being made against you. Detection and sneaking skills are good to dump your points and give you something to do outside combat.

Really, though, I'd be really worried in your position. Usually what a DM means by 'low magic' is you're going to be screwed. Casters will continue to be amazing, and you'll be stripped of everything you need to be effective past level four or so. If that's the case, and you're stuck with Human Monk 20, or even Monk+FotF+Initiate of Draconic Mysteries, there's not really anything we can do to make up for the lack of flight, immunities, armor bonuses, stat boosts, Freedom of Movement, Necklace of Natural Attacks (which is reason number one why VoP on Monks isn't good) and other stuff you'll lose. Find a solid character concept you'll enjoy playing regardless of power level or usefulness at anything, because chances are roleplaying will be most of what you're good at.

Edit: Oh, here's the other thing. The DM saying it's a nonmagic world doesn't mean you won't have access to magic items. If you have a Wizard or Cleric, and I assume you will, forget about Vow of Poverty, take those people aside and convince them to take the crafting feats. Point out how reliant noncasters are on magical gear, promise to pay their crafting expenses, let them ride you like a pont, whatever it takes. Parties with crafters aren't reliant on the DM giving them toys; they can make their own. If this isn't an option for whatever reason and you're going to be completely without any sort of gear, then I'd go for Saint 2 / Wild Monk 6 into Warshaper into Master of Many Forms. Screw being a Monk, turn into a karate bear with kung fu tentacles.

[Monsu]

Alright I was able to speak to the DM and ask some questions, He said that every official rule book is allowed as long as I stay lawful good, As for magic, Other people will be able to craft them but we won't be able to buy magical gear once we start but as for magical gear, I am stuck at about 27k thousand gold limitation of what I can get, I am allowed to multiclass as long as I start off as a monk, from what I understand our magic will still work in the world and templates are allowed, I'll check again what races are allowed but I think being locked to human is pretty tight.

I wouldn't usually be to worried about being powerful but I've played with the DM in the past and the campaigns can get pretty tough if you don't at least try to build it powerful, I can take martial study that's actually something I brought up initially but was lost on which maneuvers to get

Flaws are not allowed apparently

As for where I wanted to go with the character, I was thinking damage as we already have someone going the ac route

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

If you can craft/find but not buy magic items, then definitely don't go VoP.

"I am allowed to multiclass as long as I start off as a monk," to me that pretty much means you're only taking one level of Monk. Can you use fractional BAB (UA p73, sidebar)? Do you want to stick with a Monk feel or do you just want to make it a level tax? What class/race combinations are the rest of the party?

You could easily go Monk 1/ Druid 7+ and be awesome. With fractional BAB you could go Monk 1/ Cleric 5/ Sacred Fist 2+, or Monk 1/ Sorcerer 4/ Enlightened Fist 3/ Abjurant Champion into Sacred Exorcist with Ascetic Mage. As a LG character you could use sanctified spells like (Greater) Luminous Armor which doesn't interfere with any Monk abilities, though Sorcerer would need Arcane Preparation. Get a Rod of Bodily Restoration (MIC) to fix the Str damage sacrifice that occurs when the spell ends. I wouldn't use Wizard in this game unless there's another Wizard in the party and you can coordinate new spells each level and share your new spells with each other.

Use this trick (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267805#4) if you get Sorcerer. Be sure to pick up Item Familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm) for a Ring of Protection +1 that you upgraded to a Ring of Sustenance with a +1 Deflection bonus (per MIC p234). Eventually you can upgrade it to a Ring of Freedom of Movement (normal cost) plus Sustenance (additional effect at +50% cost per DMG p282, sidebar) plus +1 Deflection bonus. The 10% xp bonus alone is worth getting Item Familiar, and if you invest skill ranks you can get a huge return, plus an extra spell slot at the highest level you can cast. Wear a glove or gauntlet over the ring so opponents will never have line of sight/effect and it cannot be targeted with spells or sunders or slight of hand. An item familiar is an intelligent item which is treated as a construct, and constructs cannot be disabled or destroyed by dispelling or disjoining and continue to function in antimagic and dead magic areas.

[Monsu]

The other combinations are a human cleric, a elf wizard, a human warlock, and there's a dwarf sorc

Looking into the combinations you mentioned

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The other combinations are a human cleric, a elf wizard, a human warlock, and there's a dwarf sorc

Sounds like everyone else got to pick what they played and you got stuck with the last choice... I'd go with Monk 1/ Druid 7 and just play it like a Druid who doesn't need to buy a Monk's Belt. Your Item Familiar should start as a Ring of Protection +1 for full price, then you upgrade it to a Ring of the Beast (CC) plus a +1 Deflection bonus for the crafting cost of the Ring of the Beast, then add the Ring of Sustenance effect to it for 150% of the crafting cost of that. A Ring of the Beast keeps working when you Wild Shape, as an entire item, so any other effects on that ring will also keep working. Starting out as a Monk really hurts since you can't get any Druid feats at 1st level, but you could get two Abyssal Heritor feats (FC1) at 1st level and hire an NPC spellcaster to get Shun the Dark Chaos (FC1) cast twice for 2450 gp each, to switch them to any two feats you currently qualify for (Greenbound Summoning, Natural Bond). Your 3rd and 6th level feats should of course be Item Familiar and Natural Spell.

[holywhippet]

With fractional BAB you could go Monk 1/ Cleric 5/ Sacred Fist 2+

I'd go monk 2/Cleric 4/Sacred Fist myself. Monks get evasion at level 2 and it's too good a bonus to pass up. If you do go that route, try to get a domain that gives you access to the mage's armor spell which invaluable to an unarmored type.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'd go monk 2/Cleric 4/Sacred Fist myself. Monks get evasion at level 2 and it's too good a bonus to pass up. If you do go that route, try to get a domain that gives you access to the mage's armor spell which invaluable to an unarmored type.

(Greater) Luminous Armor is considerably better than Mage Armor. Only go Monk 2 if you can get 10/10 casting from Sacred Fist via Text > Table, as Evasion is available on a ring.

[Pickford]

Starting out as a Monk really hurts since you can't get any Druid feats at 1st level, but you could get two Abyssal Heritor feats (FC1) at 1st level and hire an NPC spellcaster to get Shun the Dark Chaos (FC1) cast twice for 2450 gp each, to switch them to any two feats you currently qualify for (Greenbound Summoning, Natural Bond).

You can't retroactively qualify for things. If you trade your 1st level feat slot for a dark chaos one (assuming he even qualifies), you can't then pick up a druid feat that the character did not qualify for when they were 1st level.

The whole dark chaos shtick is total shenanigans from a RAW perspective.

[Pinkie Pyro]

Assuming you don't have that silly "a monk can't take monk levels If he Multiclasses because he's realized there's no point in taking extra levels of monk because they suck or whatever" rule, I would suggest taking a level of AF pounce barbarian, going with the holy trinity of ubercharging feats, (power attack, leap attack, shock trooper). If your DM would allow it, go for whirlwind attack and use that on a charge (pounce gives a full attack, whirlwind attack uses a full attack action, it should work by RAW) for a nice leap tornado kick. Try to convince your DM to reduce the feat tax (dodge, mobility, and spring attack really have nothing to do with spin kicking, at least as the feats go).

Take Two weapon fighting, and you can get an extra extra attack at only -2(unarmed count as light weapons) for 3 attacks before anyone else even gets a second iterative. (and only at -4, a rather tiny disadvantage, easily remedied) the whole package requires 9 feats, or 5-6 if you can get your DM to drop dodge mobility and spring attack as prerequisites, or even the int 13 and combat expertise. with no flaws, and starting as a human, you'd have 4 feats, so a dip into fighter would be necessary.

I would recommend monk 2/barb 1/fighter 2/paladin 3, with battle blessing feat as your 9th level feat for some nice free quickened spell goodness.

[Karnith]

You can't retroactively qualify for things.You don't need to. Shun the Dark Chaos and Embrace the Dark Chaos only care about whether or not you qualify for the feats at the time of casting.

If you trade your 1st level feat slot for a dark chaos one (assuming he even qualifies), you can't then pick up a druid feat that the character did not qualify for when they were 1st level."Feat slot" is not a game term, and there is nothing in the Dark Chaos spells (or anything else, aside from some random developer commentary on an optional rule (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/spontaneousMetamagic.htm#metagameAnalysisSpontaneo usMetamagic)) that refers to them. There is similarly no limitation in the Dark Chaos spells that you must have qualified for the new feat at the time that you selected the feat it's replacing.

Perhaps you are confusing the Dark Chaos Shuffle with the PHBII optional retraining rules, which do have this kind of restriction?

The whole dark chaos shtick is total shenanigans from a RAW perspective.
No, it's pretty clear and unambiguous from a RAW perspective. It's just hideously powerful.

[morkendi]

I did a monk type a while ago that turned out pretty good. I did cobra strike monk 2/ pally 2/ fighter2/ into dervish. Took versatile unarmed strike to make hands count as slashing weapons. Cobra strike monk gives you the dodge and mobility and perform dance skill for dervish. Activate dervish dance and be able to move and flurry with full movement. Take ellusive target feat. Let's you do some neet stuff. Go vow of poverty, and sanctify strike line for more damage. If you can fit flay foe, that's another d6 damage. You end up with s very monk flavored character with high ac and very high saves. For more goodies, ad the feral template. It's only +2, and works very well with this build.

[Gavinfoxx]

"I am allowed to multiclass as long as I start off as a monk," to me that pretty much means you're only taking one level of Monk.

This. Possibly two levels of monk.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

So since crafting is in, do not under any circumstances take VoP.

My recommendation is that you go for an Enlightened Fist->Abjurant Champion gish. I prefer Wizard+Kung Fu Genius entry to reduce MAD, but whatever; Sorcerer is equally viable and if you can change your race it can be better. If 10/10 Sacred Fist casting is in, then go for it, but still only go Monk 1 with SUS.

Why are you so locked into Human? I don't see an obvious theme or anything.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The other combinations are a human cleric, a elf wizard, a human warlock, and there's a dwarf sorc

I just realized, there's not really anyone in the party who can take care of traps. Definitely go with a spellcaster that can get the Summon Elemental reserve feat in CM, unless someone else is already going to have that.

[ArcturusV]

I don't actually like that as a means to do Traps. It only really works for things like pressure plate and trip wire traps for the most part. And even then it's not really a good use if your DM (And enemies) are anywhere near clever. Smart enemies don't necessarily set all their traps to go off instantly when triggered and in small areas of effect. They build in delays because say you have something like... a modification of a Firetrap. If it goes off on the first trigger... you kill a point man. Possibly something like a dog, goat, or free elemental. If you set it for a 12-18 second delay after the trigger? Then the point man, likely expendable, goes past it. People decide it's safe, and follow after... just to get caught in the delayed blast.

Never risk being tactically inflexible and using just one means to handle a variety of problems. Nor count on your DM to be tactically inflexible and resort to only one tactic. I mean if your DM is inexperienced/simple enough that you can get away with relying on the same tactic, over and over (Like elemental spam point men), more power to you. Just in general I wouldn't count on it. Plus side to actually having trap finding is that it gives you options. When you can spot traps and aren't just trying to "luck out" with expendable mook point men, you can decide how to deal with them most effectively.

Edit: Not to mention I find elemental spam doesn't typically work against the most common type of traps, those on locked chests or such. Particularly if your DM is the type who might rule that just smashing open a locked chest could damage fragile loot inside... which tends to happen a lot. So it's not bad to have a skillful/mundane trap man to handle delicate situations. At the very least the Cleric and Wizard will appreciate not having to prep/buy items of Find Traps and Knock...

If you want to fill that niche, and remain "monky", instead of looking like a Sorcerer/Wizard/Druid who just has one level of monk (Which might draw some wrath as you took an implied limitation and tried to avoid it, depends on the DM of course), might want to consider something like Monk 2, Ninja 2, Fighter 2 (For more BAB and feats/ACFs depending on desires), PrCs of choice with appropriate flavoring. Get some trap finding capability, which is always nice. Ninja keys well off decent Wisdom, and some free invisibility is hardly the worst thing in the world. If you put in a variant like Sneak Attack + Thug on your fighter you continue some Alpha Strike progression and will still have the class skills to be the trap finder/disabler.

And your character will look like, feel like, and act like a type of monk, albeit with more Sudden Strike/Sneak Attack and Trap finding. But still an unarmed, unarmored combatant who punches stuff in the throat as the primary means of combat and relies on being agile over sheer power.