Is it possible to flood a basement?

[BruceWaayne]

So I was running through an urban campaign, I led my group of 12th level wizards/clerics/fighers/druids to a house that we knew was being used as a barracks for a big group of enemy combatants. After breaking into and fighting our way through the few guys in the house, we knew it was too easy. We search the whole house and find a door in the basement that opens up to what is obviously an entrance to an underground complex.

So I decide to skip a brutal closed quarters battle and kill everyone. I tell my DM that I want to flood the entire hidden basement and block up the door or kill anyone escaping. I figure that I would need to flood the place within a matter of minutes so as to catch everyone by surprise. About as fast as a submarine would fill up if breached underwater.


Problem is, after doing some rudimentary math--it's impossible to do that. I cannot find any item or spell that will deliver more water would fill maybe a swimming pool at most. And no magic item that would pump out water at a rate higher than a garden hose.

Can anyone come up with a way to flood a one level underground floor, let's say a floor with 8 10x10 rooms?

[Flickerdart]

Assuming the rooms are 10ft tall for easy math, we're looking at about 60,000 gallons to fill that up. This would require 600 pellets of Dust of Dryness, a value of 510,000 gp, or half that if you crafted it (though it would take a while).

However, you can use Control Water once you have enough. To fill the entire complex with 1 foot of water (so there's water everywhere, accounting for some floor angling) you just need 60 pellets. Thereafter, uses of Control Water hit 120x120 feet squares, which handily includes the entire compound. Then the water is raised up to 24 feet, drowning everyone.

[Platymus Pus]

basement's flood all the time in real life.
But as for the water output?
You have to calculate the amount of water output you need to do so.

We search the whole house and find a door in the basement that opens up to what is obviously an entrance to an underground complex.
And this is a rather big problem for said plan.
so is there being 8 of these
http://www.mcgeelaneselfstorage.com/images/mcgee10x10od-480x360.jpg
You'd need more than just you to flood and drown everything even assuming you had high water output
However... lets say you flood everything just enough and zap the water?
I'd say that's doable.

[Seclora]

Another three levels and you could cast Flashflood, which would definitely create enough water in a short enough time frame. Probably destroy most of the loot, and possibly bring the house down into the dungeon, but what will be, will be, right?

It'd take 2,500 castings of Create Water to fill one 10x10x10 room, or to put 1x10x10 of water in 10 rooms, Assuming your cleric prepared nothing but Create Water, he still couldn't do it in one day. If you picked up a few Decanters of endless water (say, 4 for 24,000 G), you could achieve the same end noticeably faster, at a mere 500 rounds of continuous full strength blasting(about 50 minutes) and without burning out spell slots.
Now, I've just gone and reviewed what I could find on a few submarine accidents, and it would appear that, 1) this is much faster than the time it would take for a sub to sink and 2) any of the dungeon's occupants will definitely try to stop you, quickly.
Now, I see a flaw here. You assume that the underground, urban dungeon has no drains. Even minimal drainage, or an airtight door for that matter, would have a serious impact on the rate at which the dungeon filled with water.




Have you considered simply going in and killing/looting the place? I think it may be easier.

[PrinceOfMadness]

Filling the place with Cloudkills would be much more economical and efficient, and much less likely to damage any loot.

Of course, the strength of your plan is based on the assumption that you're positioned at the only exit from the complex. If there's even one door out your plan is not going to succeed. That's also discounting the possibility of drainage, cracks, windows, or a gaping pit that leads into the Abyss. Not to mention that some of the dungeon's occupants may not need to breathe.

If you've got your heart set on flooding the place:


Decanters of Endless Water are a reasonably cheap way of producing a lot of water quickly.
Is it necessary to flood the entire complex at once? It seems to me that you could produce enough water to flood a room or two and contain it with the 'Wall of X' line of spells, wait for the inhabitants to drown, then move on to the next room.
You need to make sure you're controlling access to the only exit. Flooding the place isn't going to do much good if the bad guys can walk out. Similarly, if the bad guys can tunnel or teleport you need to try and lock that down.
Note the aforementioned 'bad guys that might not need to breathe'. It's probably wise to resign yourself to the fact that SOME of the bads are not going to be susceptible to drowning, and prepare accordingly.

[sketchtb]

A few flasks of oil, a torch and cloudkill... Set the floor of the basement on fire and drop the cloudkill just past it. If there is a back entrance, there's a good chance they might try to escape. If they decide to be heroes and put the fire out, the cloud kill will take care of them. Even if it doesn't, a few well placed fireballs and arrows will.

[Toofey]

I'm actually in a similar situation myself atm (we're playing 2nd ed) and I'm trying to get a quest spell that will allow me to cast a dimensional folding with like a turns duration.

[Maginomicon]

Assuming the rooms are 10ft tall for easy math, we're looking at about 60,000 gallons to fill that up. This would require 600 pellets of Dust of Dryness, a value of 510,000 gp, or half that if you crafted it (though it would take a while).

However, you can use Control Water once you have enough. To fill the entire complex with 1 foot of water (so there's water everywhere, accounting for some floor angling) you just need 60 pellets. Thereafter, uses of Control Water hit 120x120 feet squares, which handily includes the entire compound. Then the water is raised up to 24 feet, drowning everyone.
Powdered Water (Dragon Magazine #280, page 52) is purchased (5sp) or crafted (Alchemy DC 10) by the ounce, and when made wet by even a drop of water turns it into a whole gallon within 1 round. A cascade would naturally result when it's in large quantities. Minor Creation could eventually get the right quantities (1 cubic foot per CL = ~957.5 ounces per CL ==> ~957.5 gallons per CL = 128 cubic feet per CL), but unfortunately would not be able to pull it off without convincing your GM that it's plant-based.

Really though, if there's only one exit, you don't really need to catch them by surprise. Just lock the door, cut a small hole, and keep pouring in Powdered Water over time.

[awa]

your assuming the underground complex does not have any drainage system natural or artificial

[the_david]

This isn't official, but would a Gate to the elemental plane of water work?

[Mutazoia]

Um....Decanter of Endless Water (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Decanter_of_Endless_Water) anybody?

[gomipile]

And no magic item that would pump out water at a rate higher than a garden hose.

A garden hose delivers about 3.5 gallons per minute, which is 0.35 gallons per round

The Decanter of Endless Water delivers 30 gallons per round.

30/0.35 is about 85.7

I would call a rate 85.7 times higher than that of a garden hose "a rate higher than a garden hose."

Thank you, Mutazoia.

[Platymus Pus]

This isn't official, but would a Gate to the elemental plane of water work?

But then the party has to probably deal with water elementals if that worked.
Not fun.

[elonin]

There are too many unknowns about the underground complex. Instead of using the decanter of water, may I suggest an earthquake spell? If you have no qualms about killing most of the things down there or creating a possibly quite large sinkhole you'll do better with this. Then get a burrow speed etc and go in for the loot.

[Flickerdart]

But then the party has to probably deal with water elementals if that worked.
Not fun.
Water elementals are intelligent enough not to wander into random portals.

[Lightlawbliss]

Water elementals are intelligent enough not to wander into random portals.

It's not random, it's the one the PCs just made

[Platymus Pus]

Water elementals are intelligent enough not to wander into random portals.

Water-Dominant

Planes with this trait are mostly liquid. Visitors who can't breathe water or reach a pocket of air likely drown. Creatures of the fire subtype are extremely uncomfortable on water-dominant planes. Those made of fire take 1d10 points of damage each round.
It has more to do with the idea of having water flowing at a high speed through a portal and catching things in the current of it.

According to my rough calculations, if an aircraft carrier sank and got stuck against the drain, the pressure would easily be enough to fold it up[1] and suck it through. Cooool.
http://what-if.xkcd.com/53/
How large are portals again?
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/delta_p.png

[Morphie]

You're not accounting for the possibility of having innocent people inside that might be important to the plot. And I'm pretty sure your DM won't be happy with the idea of skipping what's probably a important part of the adventure by just flooding everything.
On the other hand, it is a nice tactic to use in combat you're in a room with only one exit:
1 - Cast Wall of Stone,
2 - Make a hole on the Wall
3 - Plug in the Decanter of Endless Water
4 - Profit.

[Flickerdart]

It has more to do with the idea of having water flowing at a high speed through a portal and catching things in the current of it.
Elemental planes are infinite. The likelihood of a significant amount of powerful enough water elementals being nearby enough that they are dragged into the gate within the seconds it's open is literally infinitely small.

[Platymus Pus]

Elemental planes are infinite. The likelihood of a significant amount of powerful enough water elementals being nearby enough that they are dragged into the gate within the seconds it's open is literally infinitely small.
Saying nothing could be dragged out would be foolish when the water is being sucked in at a possible 105,668 gallons per sec and the water going mach .5
At least I assume portals are about that big.

If could be anywhere on said infinite plane that includes places with a bunch of elementals or not.
None the less something being dragged out is up to the DM and his dice.

Not that any elementals are all that strong, but it's rather risky when you could just end up replacing enemies with tougher enemies.

The water itself would be a problem, you're doing more than just flood it at that point. You're destroying it. Wouldn't recommend it for that alone.

[Flickerdart]

Saying nothing could be dragged out would be foolish
Then it's a good thing that's not what I said, isn't it.

[Spuddles]

Flashflood, Cleric 8, Druid 8, from Sandstorm. Creates 100,000 cubic feet of water(400 5-foot squares, in a 120-ft. cone, 10 feet deep). There are rules for casting it indoors.


Elemental planes are infinite. The likelihood of a significant amount of powerful enough water elementals being nearby enough that they are dragged into the gate within the seconds it's open is literally infinitely small.

yeah but it would still be hilarious to have a kraken crawl out of the portal :smallcool:

[Flickerdart]

yeah but it would still be hilarious to have a kraken crawl out of the portal :smallcool:
Krakens don't live on the Elemental Plane of Water, and are too big to fit through even the largest gate anyway.

[The Random NPC]

It has more to do with the idea of having water flowing at a high speed through a portal and catching things in the current of it.

http://what-if.xkcd.com/53/
How large are portals again?
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/delta_p.png
Now who said that the Plane of Water has a greater pressure than the Material Plane? For all we know, the Plane of Water is slightly less pressurized and all the air will be sucked into it.


Elemental planes are infinite. The likelihood of a significant amount of powerful enough water elementals being nearby enough that they are dragged into the gate within the seconds it's open is literally infinitely small.

Due to Narrative Causality (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheoryOfNarrativeCausality), there is a 100% chance that there'll be some water elementals.

[Spuddles]

Krakens don't live on the Elemental Plane of Water, and are too big to fit through even the largest gate anyway.

Manual of the Planes, pg 77:
The Elemental Plane of Water is hospitable to both freshwater and saltwater species, though each type has its own regions to inhabit. Monstrous aquatic creatures such as the kraken and aboleth may be found here as well.

The rules for squeezing (PHB, pg 148) state that you can squeeze through a space at least 1/2 your size. Krakens are given an example of a Gargantuan (long) creature- they take up 20ft of space. A kraken can squeeze through a Gate as long as it is at least 10ft wide.

[Flickerdart]

Manual of the Planes, pg 77:
The Elemental Plane of Water is hospitable to both freshwater and saltwater species, though each type has its own regions to inhabit. Monstrous aquatic creatures such as the kraken and aboleth may be found here as well.

The rules for squeezing (PHB, pg 148) state that you can squeeze through a space at least 1/2 your size. Krakens are given an example of a Gargantuan (long) creature- they take up 20ft of space. A kraken can squeeze through a Gate as long as it is at least 10ft wide.
MoP is 3.0 and superseded by MM environment information. :P

As for the squeezing, the kraken is too large to even squeeze into a 10x10 room, since a gargantuan creature is at least 32 feet to a direction.

[Platymus Pus]

Now who said that the Plane of Water has a greater pressure than the Material Plane? For all we know, the Plane of Water is slightly less pressurized and all the air will be sucked into it.

That'd just make even scarier.:smalleek:
Occam's razor says it's the same though unless otherwise stated.
So I'm checking if that's so and...

Subjective Directional Gravity

The strength of gravity on a plane with this trait is the same as on the Material Plane, but each individual chooses the direction of gravity's pull. Such a plane has no gravity for unattended objects and nonsentient creatures. This sort of environment can be very disorienting to the newcomer, but it is common on “weightless” planes.
Assuming this is accurate it sounds more like the portal would just open up to show a bunch of water like some kind of one sided stargate.
Would have been cool if it wasn't to.:smallmad:

Krakens don't live on the Elemental Plane of Water, and are too big to fit through even the largest gate anyway.

If one did I'd just be slushed kraken and would fit through the only way it could.
Remember
According to my rough calculations, if an aircraft carrier sank and got stuck against the drain, the pressure would easily be enough to fold it up[1] and suck it through. Cooool.
http://www.navalbasecruises.com/images/intelli/nimitz.jpg
It'd practically be dead or dead.
A elemental might be survive it due to being smaller and made of water to begin with.

But water ever, looks like the water wouldn't flow out.

Though technically you could use the surface tension of water to make it come out onto the planes with regular gravity since surface tension happens regardless of it.
Maybe throw in a water slide or something into the portal and have it start flowing out faster and faster that way.
:smallsmile: