Undead Creation and Libris Mortis Question

[Bub_the_zombie]

Hello forums!

1)Creating a basic skeleton via the animate dead spell. Is it possible to increase HD by adding the needed material component for the desired increase? i.e. the body of a first level commoner is "obtained" by a seventh level cleric. This cleric wants to invest some resources into this blank canvas and make a masterpiece, he wants to create a six hit dice skeleton. Could he use 150 gp worth of onyx in creation to obtain this (enough onyx for a 6 hd skeleton)? Or would this cleric need to "obtain" a body of sixth level or higher?

Is there a limit to how this can be used if it can be done, could that seventh level cleric create a skeleton of 14 HD because it is double his level and within what he can control?

2)In Libris Mortis there are templates such as nimble skeletons, fast zombies, unkillable zombies. How do you apply a template to the undead to create one? Can it be done using the Animate Dead spell? Or is this just a house rule. If so how have people ruled on it in the past.

Thanks in advance

[OldTrees1]

1)
a) A body has a certain number of Racial HD where animate dead is concerned. (This is race dependent).
b) Polymorph any object(8th level spell) can permanently change the race of a corpse thus changing the RHD where animate dead is concerned.

c) A single casting of Animate Dead can raise up to twice your caster level in HD of undead (default). This can be a single corpse if you want.

2)
It is just an twist the DM can apply to undead to give them variety.
I personally would let players use them as well but have the created undead have a high effective HD when counting towards the HD controlled/animated.

[Bub_the_zombie]

Interesting.

So I am assuming that most humanoids max out at 20 HD. So a 10th level cleric could create a 20 HD skeleton.

How do you find out what a monster's max HD?

[KillianHawkeye]

So I am assuming that most humanoids max out at 20 HD. So a 10th level cleric could create a 20 HD skeleton.

How do you find out what a monster's max HD?

No, humanoids generally have 1 HD, which gets replaced by taking class levels. Class levels DO NOT count for the purposes of raising undead, only racial Hit Dice do. When creating a human skeleton, it doesn't matter what level the person was when they were alive because they lose all of their class levels and just get their one human Hit Die (modified to a d12).

To get a stronger undead, you need a stronger base creature. Look in the Monster Manual to see how many Hit Dice different types of creatures have. For example, a gnoll has two Hit Dice and a troll has six.

[Brookshw]

How do you find out what a monster's max HD?

The HD would be whatever the monster was wouldn't it? I'd think the MM standard or the DM lets you know if it was advanced. Maybe I'm missing something in the question.

[Bub_the_zombie]

Now you have me questioning this.

I do not wish to sound so amazingly ignorant but I am not getting this concept. So a human zombie is a 2 HD creature, why does he get to be 2 HD. But a human skeleton is a 1 HD creature with no chance of granting him extra HD with a standard casting of animate dead.

The only way to get an increased HD skeleton (or zombie) is to get a creature with a base of more HD animate it then polymorph it to a skeleton.

Which is doable, just want to make sure it is correct.

[Zanos]

Now you have me questioning this.

I do not wish to sound so amazingly ignorant but I am not getting this concept. So a human zombie is a 2 HD creature, why does he get to be 2 HD. But a human skeleton is a 1 HD creature with no chance of granting him extra HD with a standard casting of animate dead.

The only way to get an increased HD skeleton (or zombie) is to get a creature with a base of more HD animate it then polymorph it to a skeleton.

Which is doable, just want to make sure it is correct.

As listed in the zombie template:

Hit Dice
Drop any Hit Dice from class levels (to a minimum of 1), double the number of Hit Dice left, and raise them to d12s. If the base creature has more than 10 Hit Dice (not counting those gained with experience), it can’t be made into a zombie with the animate dead spell.

Zombies receive double racial HD.

[Fax Celestis]

In a monster's stat block, the Advancement line will tell you the max racial Hit Die available.

[Thrudd]

Now you have me questioning this.

I do not wish to sound so amazingly ignorant but I am not getting this concept. So a human zombie is a 2 HD creature, why does he get to be 2 HD. But a human skeleton is a 1 HD creature with no chance of granting him extra HD with a standard casting of animate dead.

The only way to get an increased HD skeleton (or zombie) is to get a creature with a base of more HD animate it then polymorph it to a skeleton.

Which is doable, just want to make sure it is correct.

You are correct, a skeleton or zombie's strength is defined by nothing more than its size. If you want a stronger one, find a bigger monster.
I don't think you need to ploymorph it...just kill it and let the flesh rot away. Or find one up that has already been dead a while.
Zombies are just tougher monsters than skeletons. A zombie is tougher because it has all that flesh and muscle still on it, or maybe it is just invested with more negative energy that gives it extra supernatural toughness, who knows. But it was decided long ago by Gygax et al. (OD&D, 1e) that zombies are stronger than skeletons.

[Zanos]

The suggestion with Polymorph Any Object is that you could just polymorph a monster corpse into the corpse of another, more powerful monster, and then animate that.