Opinions on some of my DM's houserules?

[VariSami]

Right. I have jokingly and less jokingly mentioned some of the limitations of my local go-to DM and friend has. He just began a new campaign, and I kid you not, he has actually taken it up to eleven. Okay, some of his limitations (such as the banning of Tier 1 and 2 classes) were actually lifted. However, I would like to hear some opinions (and preferably arguments and suggestions for bettering the whole) about the current houserules we are to game under. Would you even bother with such a game?

Basically,
1. E6 rules with some expections listed below
2. 4d6, drop lowest for stat generation. The sum of your modifiers must be 0 or lower to allow re-rolling, I think.
3. HP is rolled for at every level, including the first.
4. Humans only (understandably so, the setting requires it).
5. PHB core classes only.
6. Other books available for alternative class features and feats (probably prestige classes as well, although I am not sure) include Complete Warrior, Complete Arcane, Complete Divine and Complete Adventurer, as well as Player's Handbook II and Unearthed Arcana. MIC and Arms & Equipment Guide are allowed at the DM's concession.
7. Whenever a character dies, the new character is allowed to start with half the original character's xp.
8. Every encounter (including social situations and skill challenges, though) gives you 300 xp. No exceptions.
9. Taint rules from Unearthed Arcana.

My problems with these rules are, that:
1. The game is about high level challenges which must be prepared for. However, we are very fragile (especially at first level) if bad luck happens, and such things should not really be left to luck. A character could easily start with 1-3hp, even if he was a barbarian. While the random hp generation at first level is a generally bad idea in my opinion (it makes non-casters an even worse idea, for example), it meshes especially bad with the theme of the campaign. Of course, we can subvert this to a degree with traps and other such tactics but only to a decree.
2. Due to the amount of chance involved with cha-gen and the penalties for dying, a player might actually end up in a spiral due to bad luck. And due to the challenges scaling with the rest of the party (although there are also random encounters which do not scale; the table is common to all levels).
3. All the damn limitations. You know, PHB+UA-only is essentially what the game boils down to.
4. The flat amount of xp is actually probably the worst offender. We are not rewarded for actually tackling challenges. Of course, as players, we are not motivated to just sit around doing menial things, but we *could* receive the same amount of xp by essentially doing nothing. In the wirst case scenario, this might turn out to be necessary.

The game itself is set in an enjoyable setting, I was somewhat lucky with my first (current) character, and the gaming group is enjoyable to hang with. However, all these things keep nagging me. Would you agree that there is really something wrong with the combination of these rules, and/or individual rules?

[RFLS]

1. E6 rules with some expections listed below
2. 4d6, drop lowest for stat generation. The sum of your modifiers must be 0 or lower to allow re-rolling, I think.
3. HP is rolled for at every level, including the first.
4. Humans only (understandably so, the setting requires it).
5. PHB core classes only.
6. Other books available for alternative class features and feats (probably prestige classes as well, although I am not sure) include Complete Warrior, Complete Arcane, Complete Divine and Complete Adventurer, as well as Player's Handbook II and Unearthed Arcana. MIC and Arms & Equipment Guide are allowed at the DM's concession.
7. Whenever a character dies, the new character is allowed to start with half the original character's xp.
8. Every encounter (including social situations and skill challenges, though) gives you 300 xp. No exceptions.
9. Taint rules from Unearthed Arcana.


Always fun.
Not bad, I think (but can't remember) that that generates about a 28 point buy. The net modifier should be a little higher, though, especially with the massive penalty for death.
.....yeah, this is bad if you're starting at first. I can't even see the justification.
*shrug* setting is setting. I'd ask for a reason, though.
Bleah. I find limitations like this to be silly, unless the DM is new. There's no reason for them.
This is a case of good/bad. It's good, because it allows you options. It's bad, because it shows that he's aware of these options, but is unwilling to allow players creative freedom in class selection.
....dumb. Very, very dumb. Original - 10% might not be bad, but half? That's a few level drops anywhere past fifth level.
....dumb. The game's XP track for leveling supposes scaling XP rewards, too. You'll take forever to get a new level after about 8th level. Unless, of course, you die.
Can't really comment on this one, but I can say that UA is about 50/50 on good and bad ideas. Fractional BAB/Saves? Excellent. Some of the other stuff? Not so much.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

If the balance of the game is primarily no-risk social encounters, it might work out. The 300 xp thing is dumb. It means that you'll go from 1 to 2 in 4 things. Then from 2 to 3 in six. Then from 3 to 4 in ten. 4 to 5 takes you 13. Getting to 6 takes you 16. So the progression from 1 to 6 is 49 "encounters". If that includes each monster and every successful skill check, that's not not nearly long enough. If an encounter is plot-critical social interactions, skill checks where failure will cause death/serious injury and the whole of a combat - from not in combat to in combat to not in combat because everything is dead or has fled - then that seems really, really bad to me. I don't see what the purpose of it is, either.

It's going to be a really luck-dependent campaign, and I think you'll have to really focus on that Con modifier. Don't let your first character die, or the downward spiral of uselessness is definitely a real possibility.

Edit: for the previous poster, since it's E6 he doesn't have to worry about being level 8, fortunately.

[Tim Proctor]

"1."

Good.

"2. 4d6, drop lowest for stat generation. The sum of your modifiers must be 0 or lower to allow re-rolling, I think."

That's not a house rule, that is straight from the PHB. Pg. 7 "To create an ability score for your character, roll four six-sided dice (4d6). Disregard the lowest die roll and total the three highest ones" and then page 8 "If your scores are too low, you may scrap them and roll all six scores again. Your scores are considered too low if the sum of your modifiers (before adjustments because of race) is 0 or lower, or if your highest score is 13 or lower.".

"3. HP is rolled for at every level, including the first."

That one seems faulty, if he started a lvl 1 campaign he'd realize that shouldn't be. I'd point him in the direction of pg. 23 "a 1st-level character gets the maximum hit points rather than rolling (although Constitution modifiers, positive or negative, still apply).", the issues with a bad roll can be brutal on that.

"4. Humans only (understandably so, the setting requires it)"

Totally fine with it, I actually prefer this, but players don't always and that can make a huge amount of difference. In the end it has to be all about fun.

"5. PHB core classes only." and "6. Other books available for alternative class features and feats (probably prestige classes as well, although I am not sure) include Complete Warrior, Complete Arcane, Complete Divine and Complete Adventurer, as well as Player's Handbook II and Unearthed Arcana. MIC and Arms & Equipment Guide are allowed at the DM's concession."

Totally fine with this also, once you start expanding the classes it gets more difficult on the DM at an exponential level and keeping it to a core book, or a few books really balances that.

"7. Whenever a character dies, the new character is allowed to start with half the original character's xp."

That's a good motivation not to have a character die, makes it harder to keep up with the group when something like that happens. If you've ever seen the movie Beerfest they have a scene where a main character Landfill dies and then his twin brother comes and joins the group, wants to be called Landfill and heard all about the group so there is no awkward transition and get-to-know-you phase. Which, is how most new characters seem to be. I prefer two levels below, but depending on what level you are it can make a huge difference on which on is better.

"8. Every encounter (including social situations and skill challenges, though) gives you 300 xp. No exceptions."

At high levels this is worthless, I hope he has a scaling system to it. The level per experience system is built so that there should be 13.33 encounters per level, so I'd just divide that by 12 and get the number from that.

"9. Taint rules from Unearthed Arcana."
Can make or break the campaign, depends on setting.

[Belril Duskwalk]

3 and 7 sound ugly. Actually 3 isn't terribly ugly if you can negotiate him back to excluding first level. Rolled HP at level 1 is ugly.
As for 7, losing XP on a new character isn't inherently terrible. Death should cost something. Losing THAT MUCH is going to hurt at the later levels.
8. Sounds a little dodgy too. You'll potentially level too fast for the first few and rather slowly for the last one. E6 makes the downside hurt a lot less, but it also insures you'll hit that level cap FAST.

[Threadnaught]

Wait, rolling HP at 1st level is a house rule?


As for number 8, I'd abuse any down time by using social Skills on everything that can make a Listen check. Make sure the party is able to use as many of it's abilities in a safe environment.
Your DM has slowed down levelling by Adventuring, but it's abusable. As long as you can argue what counts as an encounter with him, without him... Killing all your characters.

[AutumnLotus]

1. E6 rules with some expections listed below
2. 4d6, drop lowest for stat generation. The sum of your modifiers must be 0 or lower to allow re-rolling, I think.
3. HP is rolled for at every level, including the first.
4. Humans only (understandably so, the setting requires it).
5. PHB core classes only.
6. Other books available for alternative class features and feats (probably prestige classes as well, although I am not sure) include Complete Warrior, Complete Arcane, Complete Divine and Complete Adventurer, as well as Player's Handbook II and Unearthed Arcana. MIC and Arms & Equipment Guide are allowed at the DM's concession.
7. Whenever a character dies, the new character is allowed to start with half the original character's xp.
8. Every encounter (including social situations and skill challenges, though) gives you 300 xp. No exceptions.
9. Taint rules from Unearthed Arcana.

1) E6 is fun for certain people, and encourages a more mortal gaming experience. This is good/bad for different reasons in this situation, as I will explain below.
2) Pretty Standard, cant complain really since I had a DM who did 3d6, no rerolls for my last e6 game :smallsigh:
3) I hate these sort of rules personally, especially since it makes half the party squishier and given the below rules on new characters it will lead to a LOT of grinding away from the plot.
4) Eh. I like racial options, but what can you do.
5&6) If he is allowing options from those sources, but not the base classes, he probably doesnt understand how the classes are balanced. That, or he thinks that the supplement base classes dont fit into his world, which I consider to be bad storytelling as a DM.
7) This is simply crappy Dming, simple as that. I get that it is meant to punish death and the revolving door policy, but there are a lot of other ways to do it. Require it to be a different classed character, Make the wealth they bring in half of what is normal, etc. Penelising experience will just lead to a downward spiral of dying.
8) If the above is crappy Dming, this would be Lazy Dming and they want to look like they arent. I bet if you started hunting chickens you wouldnt get that experience, and i you somehow killed a great wyrm dragon you wouldnt get a bonus. He should either use standard xp calculation (there are calculators online, for god's sake), or simply choose an appropriate time for everyone to level up.
9) I never liked Taint rules, partially because it hurts you for going into areas you need to be at as an adventurer (tombs, underdark,evil fortress, etc), and because of the broken classes that rely on Taint to be there (Tainted Scholar, Undead Taint Rules, Infinite power cheese)

So, ultimately, I wouldnt play that game unless I optimized to never die ever and the story was really compelling. That's my opinion, of course :smallannoyed:

[TheIronGolem]

2. 4d6, drop lowest for stat generation. The sum of your modifiers must be 0 or lower to allow re-rolling, I think.
3. HP is rolled for at every level, including the first.

Abominations. Randomness has no place in character generation or advancement. If you're taking a class like Barbarian that has "lots of hit points" as a class feature, you should damned well be sure you're going to get a lot of hit points when you level up.

Traditionalists will be tempted to point out that D&D has done this in some form pretty much since the beginning. Traditionalists can go suck eggs, because it was just as bad an idea in 1974 as it is today.



7. Whenever a character dies, the new character is allowed to start with half the original character's xp.

Bloody stupid, and will only become more so as the overall party level increases. A replacement character under this system will be much more likely to die and need replacement. So the second replacement is weaker still, and thus even more likely to die and need replacement. And so on. Basically, one screwed-up save or critical hit from a boss and the player is at severe risk of falling into a "you suck forever" feedback loop.

The only way this could ever be remotely fair is if EVERY player is getting characters killed on an approximately equal basis. It literally requires the DM to say "Okay, no matter what, Bob's character cannot be allowed to survive this session".

[OldTrees1]

Most look optional but reasonable. I would recommend against these:
3) Rolling 1st level hp can be used for a challenge/gritty feel.
7) This sounds like Call of Cthulhu. You might be intended to have fun but eventually fail.
8) This is a mistake. It encourages the players to farm CR 1/20th encounters and avoid any memorable encounters rather than follow the story.

[prufock]

The fact that this is an E6 game alleviates some of the nonsensical ones. While a new character coming in at half xp is annoying, at most that will be a 3-level difference (or the difference of a number of capstone feats). The 300 xp per encounter rule seems odd, but you won't be leveling past 6 anyway, so it's not a huge downer. Of course, it can also be abused by taking on low-CR enemies at high levels... buy a bunch of dogs trained to fight and take them on one at a time, you'll level pretty quickly.

The rolled HP at first level seems absolutely pointless though.

[Scow2]

While the "Half XP" sounds bad... in actuality, it's only ever two levels below (And not even that before level 3). The only reason a weaker party member would be "More likely to die" is if they're careless, and make themselves a stupidly-large threat - seriously, if you're a level or two below the rest of the party, don't go running into the bad guy's swords. Instead, make them focus on the guys who can take the hit (Maybe they'll join you in Lowbie Land after the battle :smalltongue:).

Rolled HP... I'd say it's bad in a normal game, but this one seems to be largely about trying to beat a deck stacked against you using wits and skill, even if you end up with sub-par HP. However, combined with E6, it makes the "Toughness" feat less of a trap... but possibly more of a "tax".

The class restriction is bad for balance, especially since the big Books with all the other, better-balanced classes are allowed (Everyone roll Wizards, Clerics, and Druids!). However, it does keep things "Simpler".

The biggest problem is the XP for encounters thing... with the current set of rules (Taint and limited/restricted resources), I'd expect a high degree of player autonomy in choosing their adventures. The 300 XP thing either encourages 'safe' play ("Hail, Inkeeper. We legendary heroes have heard you have rats and bugs in your basement. Shall we exterminate them for you?"), or it causes the DM to try and throw "Level-appropriate" encounters at the party, regardless of their actual ability. One of the things E6 is able to eliminate is the whole "Level-appropriate Encounter" expectations - you can expect anything from CR 1/2 to CR 10 regardless of level. Of course, he might keep the XP thing the same while allowing full choice in planning adventures... in e6, there's no such thing as "Wealth by Level" - You're after wealth, not pointless fights with powerful beasts.

I say go for it - It'll certainly be different than most games, but check your expectations at the door, and let your metagame accomodate the new rules.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

In fairness, I feel randomized stats in E6 are better than they are otherwise (just stats, mind, not HP at first level). If you're using a 28-point buy, say, you'll have something like 16/14/14/12/10/8, and that makes the stat point you get at 4 a bit uninspiring (unless you put your 12 in Strength, say, and used it to go to 13 for PA... but why wouldn't you just arrange it that way at level one?). But suppose your stats are 17/14/14/11/10/9, which I just rolled. By modifier, that's a 26 point buy, but that stat point at 4 becomes a lot more interesting.

I don't know, I guess. More and more I'm favoring a hybrid point buy + rolling system for games. Something like roll 3 with 4d6dl and do the other 3 as 20 point buy. It comes out as 14/14/15, 12/14/16 or 18/10/8. There's the opportunity for a character to come out with insane stats, which I don't really mind, but no one ends up without a stat they really need to make their character work.

That was some off-topic rumination, brought to you by my dissatisfaction with most common stat generation systems.

[Urpriest]

While the "Half XP" sounds bad... in actuality, it's only ever two levels below (And not even that before level 3).

You're forgetting the E part of E6. In the late-game, Half-XP means half the number of feats.

Oh, and each feat is apparently 17 encounters worth, or 4 sessions or so, or a month of gaming for a group that meets every week. And you'll be behind all those forever because XP doesn't scale.

[TheIronGolem]

The only reason a weaker party member would be "More likely to die" is if they're careless, and make themselves a stupidly-large threat

That's far from the "only" reason. Less hit points, lower combat values, fewer class features, probably less/worse gear, etc. All of these things reduce the odds of a character surviving a given encounter - particularly an encounter geared towards higher-level party members.

Yes, the player can mitigate this somewhat by playing more conservatively than he would with an equal-level character. But even that is itself part of the feedback loop; he's already been implicitly told to sit at the kiddie table.


seriously, if you're a level or two below the rest of the party, don't go running into the bad guy's swords.
Strawman. I'm not suggesting you should be able to Leeroy your way through encounters. I'm saying you should be able to play normally with a replacement character.

[bekeleven]

While the "Half XP" sounds bad... in actuality, it's only ever two levels below (And not even that before level 3).

Or, once the players have 20 capstone feats, it's... 10+ capstone feats. While a feat is worth less than a level in terms of game balance, the fact that E6 endgame is entirely based around feat combos means that they are required.

[elonin]

1. E6 isn't my cup of tea but works for some groups. If this doesn't mesh to your preferred gaming style then you have some thinking to do.

2. has been standard enough to be in the PHB since ADnD. I tend to prefer point buy but this shouldn't be so bad since you aren't being forced to roll straight down.

3. Many groups house rule auto max hitpoints for 1st level.

4,5,6. This isn't horrible as long as the dm isn't picking favorites (one person in group gets to play another race or class). As long as the dm is keeping those other classes aren't being used by npc's.

7 is a bit strange but from my understanding of E6 the power gap shouldn't be too bad.

8. This sounds horrible, though it depends on how combat intensive the play is. The real issue depends on the dm's knowledge of relative power adnd challenge to players. I'm wondering how knowledgable the dm is of the game, cause a lot of people throw the ban hammer in areas they aren't strong with.

[Urpriest]

3. Many groups house rule auto max hitpoints for 1st level.


Almost all groups use max hitpoints for first level, since it's the base rule and first level is famously squishy as-is. There certainly isn't anyone out there who thinks rolling hit points at first level is the default rule, since that would have been refuted the very first time they made a first level character by following the steps in the PhB.

[Scow2]

That's far from the "only" reason. Less hit points, lower combat values, fewer class features, probably less/worse gear, etc. All of these things reduce the odds of a character surviving a given encounter - particularly an encounter geared towards higher-level party members.

Yes, the player can mitigate this somewhat by playing more conservatively than he would with an equal-level character. But even that is itself part of the feedback loop; he's already been implicitly told to sit at the kiddie table.Everyone should be playing conservatively - Enemies aren't constrained to CR 6. E6 tends to put the emphasis on the world, not the characters - and all the monsters are gunning for the bigger guys unless the smaller ones do something stoopid.


Strawman. I'm not suggesting you should be able to Leeroy your way through encounters. I'm saying you should be able to play normally with a replacement character.And it's something I don't feel should be taken as a given. "Normal" play for anyone is "Check your resources, don't take unnecessary risks, and don't leave anything to chance."

The biggest problem I have is the 300 XP rule.

[molten_dragon]

Would you even bother with such a game?


1. E6 rules with some expections listed below

This one by itself would be a deal-breaker. I don't really even start to enjoy the game until about 5th level. I definitely wouldn't enjoy an E6 game.


2. 4d6, drop lowest for stat generation. The sum of your modifiers must be 0 or lower to allow re-rolling, I think.

Not my favorite method of generating stats, but I'd go with it. Though if I rolled really poorly and he wouldn't let me reroll (for example a 12 10 10 10 10 10) I'd rapidly kill off my character and roll a new one.


3. HP is rolled for at every level, including the first.

Also not my favorite, but also not horrible.


4. Humans only (understandably so, the setting requires it).

This I could live with too, though I wouldn't be real happy about it.


5. PHB core classes only.

This one I could live with considerably less. I've been playing D&D for enough years that I've played several characters of each core class. I get bored with them pretty quickly. The splat books help keep it interesting for me.


6. Other books available for alternative class features and feats (probably prestige classes as well, although I am not sure) include Complete Warrior, Complete Arcane, Complete Divine and Complete Adventurer, as well as Player's Handbook II and Unearthed Arcana. MIC and Arms & Equipment Guide are allowed at the DM's concession.

This isn't horrible, but I prefer everything with a WotC label be available, barring horrible cheese.


7. Whenever a character dies, the new character is allowed to start with half the original character's xp.

This would be a problem for me too. If I die, I don't want to have to come back several levels lower than I was when I died. Although half of 0 is still 0, so killing my character off for better stats wouldn't hurt me.


8. Every encounter (including social situations and skill challenges, though) gives you 300 xp. No exceptions.

This I'd have a major problem with. Leveling would take forever even by level 6. I'm not a fan of that.


9. Taint rules from Unearthed Arcana.

This is fine, I don't have a problem with it one way or the other.

Taken as a package deal, I definitely wouldn't join that game. I wouldn't have a good time. If you got rid of the E6 restriction, I'd consider it, but I'd still have serious reservations.

[elonin]

Almost all groups use max hitpoints for first level, since it's the base rule and first level is famously squishy as-is. There certainly isn't anyone out there who thinks rolling hit points at first level is the default rule, since that would have been refuted the very first time they made a first level character by following the steps in the PhB.

That is true. To me this isn't the biggest item to be concerned about on this list. If you enjoy this type of game and the dm gave prior notice of these changes then it's all fair. I would be unlikely myself but there are many types of people who play.

[SciChronic]

1. E6 rules with some expections listed below
2. 4d6, drop lowest for stat generation. The sum of your modifiers must be 0 or lower to allow re-rolling, I think.
3. HP is rolled for at every level, including the first.
4. Humans only (understandably so, the setting requires it).
5. PHB core classes only.
6. Other books available for alternative class features and feats (probably prestige classes as well, although I am not sure) include Complete Warrior, Complete Arcane, Complete Divine and Complete Adventurer, as well as Player's Handbook II and Unearthed Arcana. MIC and Arms & Equipment Guide are allowed at the DM's concession.
7. Whenever a character dies, the new character is allowed to start with half the original character's xp.
8. Every encounter (including social situations and skill challenges, though) gives you 300 xp. No exceptions.
9. Taint rules from Unearthed Arcana.


1. E6 is fine
2. Personally i prefer point buy so players can create characters they want/like rather than characters they got forced into via stat rolls. That said, his rules aren't terrible.
3. This is bad, and can literally spell death for any melee class
4. Well Human's are pretty much the standard.
5. This hurts mundanes, sadly
6. This also hurts mundanes more than casters
7. This is a terrible idea, it will easily send a player into a downward spiral. Sure, experience is a river, and its possible to catch up eventually, but this is just unnecessary levels of punishment for a character dying, especially if it was because of a terrible level 1 HP roll.
8. And then this rules out experience is a river making the death tax stupid. Personally i really enjoy rewarding my players for being particularly crafty.
9. Unfamiliar with taint rules, so no comment.

net ruling: his houserules essentially drive you into doing High OP tier 1 play out of fear of dying just once. Because if you die once, you are now half as effective as your team, becoming a burden more than anything. It also makes it much easier to kill you again and again.

you should talk to your DM about the death tax and the experience. Death taxes are fine, i usually make mine 1 level, but i also follow the "experience is a river" ruling, meaning that yeah they get punished for dying, but only for a session or two and then they're back up to speed. Your DM's ruling however is like having to pull a car after you die, and each time after that another car gets added. This is seriously going to detract from the fun of a session when a player had died twice in the last 6 sessions and might as well be throwing twigs while everyone else gets cannons.

[Equinox]

1. E6 rules with some expections listed below Ok, let's see what those exceptions are ...
2. 4d6, drop lowest for stat generation. The sum of your modifiers must be 0 or lower to allow re-rolling, I think. Harsh, but fair.
3. HP is rolled for at every level, including the first. Harsh, and not really fair.
4. Humans only (understandably so, the setting requires it). Meh. Not sure what kind of fantasy setting requires only humans, but no big deal to me.
5. PHB core classes only. Meh
6. Other books available for alternative class features and feats (probably prestige classes as well, although I am not sure) include Complete Warrior, Complete Arcane, Complete Divine and Complete Adventurer, as well as Player's Handbook II and Unearthed Arcana. MIC and Arms & Equipment Guide are allowed at the DM's concession. So the Cleric can take DMM, but the mundane sword-wielding warrior can't be a Warblade? Do not like.
7. Whenever a character dies, the new character is allowed to start with half the original character's xp. Do not like
8. Every encounter (including social situations and skill challenges, though) gives you 300 xp. No exceptions. This rule is a bit ridiculous in its rigidity, but I actually wouldn't mind it that much.
9. Taint rules from Unearthed Arcana. Not familiar

I avoided looking at other replies before writing this, so pardon me if I'm repeating anything.

[Novawurmson]

1. E6 rules with some expections listed below
2. 4d6, drop lowest for stat generation. The sum of your modifiers must be 0 or lower to allow re-rolling, I think.
3. HP is rolled for at every level, including the first.
4. Humans only (understandably so, the setting requires it).
5. PHB core classes only.
6. Other books available for alternative class features and feats (probably prestige classes as well, although I am not sure) include Complete Warrior, Complete Arcane, Complete Divine and Complete Adventurer, as well as Player's Handbook II and Unearthed Arcana. MIC and Arms & Equipment Guide are allowed at the DM's concession.
7. Whenever a character dies, the new character is allowed to start with half the original character's xp.
8. Every encounter (including social situations and skill challenges, though) gives you 300 xp. No exceptions.
9. Taint rules from Unearthed Arcana.

1. I love E6. Level 1-12 is my preferred level of play, with a focus on 6-8ish.

2. I don't like rolling for stats, but my players do, so I think it's mostly personal preference.

3. HP rolling at first level is just begging for lethal encounters. The system I use is max first level, roll afterwards, but if you roll less than half, take half (3 for a d6, 4 for a d8, etc.).

4. I don't mind playing humans, but one of the key draws for me is the ability to think about what other species living together would be like.

5. I'd probably be out. The PHB classes are the least balanced classes in the game. Limiting books and limiting classes is fine, but restricting it to core is very telling about the DM's system mastery.

6. Not my favorite books, but passable as long as feats from them are allowed. Allowing their classes, too would be a nice change.

7. Definitely not with E6, unless there was some system in place to let them catch back up with the party in terms of feats quickly.

8. I tossed out EXP years ago for a "everyone levels when the DM says" method, and it's so much easier. It also avoids a lot of pointless arguments and hurt feelings about "Why did I only get 50 XP for this, but 100 XP for that?"; "Did we get XP for that one thing we did?"; and "I'm only 250 XP from level up, can I go kill something?" It's a metagame concept that detracts from the story.

9. Not familiar with those taint rules. Are they the same from Heroes of Horror?

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

The taint rules basically are:

1. Spending too long with a tainted item or in a tainted place forces Fortitude saves
2. Failing those saves increases your taint by 1
3. Every point of taint decreases your Con and Wis by 1
4. That damage cannot be repaired except by reducing taint
5. If your Con reaches 0, you die and rise as an NPC undead of a type dependent on your HD
6. Anything that dies with a taint score >0 rises as an undead of some type in 1d4 hours
7. Taint cannot be reduced in E6 except by:
a. Remove Curse, by 1 per casting to a minimum of 1
b. Remove Disease, by 1 per casting to a minimum of 1
c. Resting at a MacGuffin, by 1 per day to a minimum of 0
d. Undertaking a holy ritual and completing good deeds, by 1 per week to a minimum of 0. Adventuring is explicitly disallowed.
e. Undertaking a holy ritual and completing a quest, by 1 per week required to complete the quest to a minimum of 0.
8. Taint can be removed from an area or item by casting Hallow, which is a level 5 spell so apparently once tainted in this world things can never be untainted (which alone makes me suspicious)
9. Upon reaching certain taint levels the character gains access to two PrCs

Yeah, after looking at those, I would honestly never play an E6 game which used them. It's basically railroading except the DM gets to lower your stats if you resist.

[TheIronGolem]

Everyone should be playing conservatively...

Okay, but I'm talking about being forced to play more conservatively than your friends at the table do, just because you had some bad luck with your last character. That's a problem, E6 or no E6.


and all the monsters are gunning for the bigger guys unless the smaller ones do something stoopid.

Ignoring the fact that player characters don't typically have their levels hovering over their heads for monsters to read...what, exactly, is "something stupid"?

If it's something that an equal-level character could reasonably do, then you only prove my point, because it shows how the player is being punished for poor performance (or just plain bad luck) in the past with a handicap in the present, when the consequences should have ended with the death of the first character. Furthermore, the punishment essentially amounts to a soft restriction on what kinds of characters the player can play in the future - one that does not apply to the other players.

On the other hand, if "something stupid" is something that would also be stupid for an equal-level character, then it's irrelevant to the topic.

In the end, "something stupid" in this context really means "participate meaningfully in the battle". That's something every player should be able to do, and one who's forced to play it safer than the other players is less able to do so.


And it's something I don't feel should be taken as a given. "Normal" play for anyone is "Check your resources, don't take unnecessary risks, and don't leave anything to chance."

Yes, but a lower-level character has fewer resources and less ability to handle risks. This means that he faces greater danger from the encounter than the rest of the party. That, in turn, means the player has to play at a sub-normal risk tolerance. He has to work harder to stay in the same place he was before, and at greater vulnerability (despite his precautions) to the same bad turn of luck that killed his previous character coming back to increase his handicap even further.

If a player gets his character killed by doing something dumb, then the "penalty" is a dead character. If that didn't teach the player to be more careful, then either the character in question was taking risks because it fit the character concept, or the player failed to learn from the experience. If it's the former, then the player shouldn't be punished for proper roleplaying. If it's the latter, then making his next character more fragile isn't going to solve the problem.

[Tyndmyr]

I could live with all of these save the 300xp one.

I mean, I could totally live with that as well, I'd just abuse the living hell out of it, so yeah...

[Mystral]

Basically,
1. E6 rules with some expections listed below

Fair enough, in and of itself.


2. 4d6, drop lowest for stat generation. The sum of your modifiers must be 0 or lower to allow re-rolling, I think.

That's not a houserule, this is standard. But normally, you also get a reroll if none of your ability scores is over 13.



3. HP is rolled for at every level, including the first.

Makes for quite the deadly first level, I'd say. On the other tentacle, first level is deadly, anyway. I'm not a fan of rolling HP, but I guess you can do that.



4. Humans only (understandably so, the setting requires it).

Then this is, again, not a houserule.


5. PHB core classes only.

Are we getting to the houserules soon?


6. Other books available for alternative class features and feats (probably prestige classes as well, although I am not sure) include Complete Warrior, Complete Arcane, Complete Divine and Complete Adventurer, as well as Player's Handbook II and Unearthed Arcana. MIC and Arms & Equipment Guide are allowed at the DM's concession.

...


7. Whenever a character dies, the new character is allowed to start with half the original character's xp.

A bit harsh, but I guess in E6, that's alright. You get to keep the dead guys stuff as bonus.



8. Every encounter (including social situations and skill challenges, though) gives you 300 xp. No exceptions.

Now this is a strange ruling. I'd say that this gives you to much XP at low levels. At higher levels, that's okay, at least for E6.

I don't see the problem. Maybe if the DM throws unreasonable encounters at you for your power level, that's a different story, but I think the problem might lie a bit more in your attitude to the DM and his house rules, considering how you present them.

[ko_sct]

Basically,
1. E6 rules with some expections listed below

7. Whenever a character dies, the new character is allowed to start with half the original character's xp.

8. Every encounter (including social situations and skill challenges, though) gives you 300 xp. No exceptions.

Not gonna talk about the other house-rules, they don't matter compared to those.
You're gonna NEED to convince the dm to modify those rules, cause it's not working, it's not working at all.

The problem is that with rule 7 in place, the penalty for dying is pretty big. By itself, I'd say it's simply a bad rule, but your mileage may vary and your group might like some really harsh penalty for death. You die, you are hurt, in a few levels, it wont matter anymore.

BUT, with rule 8, xp gain is no longer a river, the lower levels guys don't get more xp anymore, they suffer a permanent penalty for dying, a pretty harsh one at that. I guess that in a normal game, it would matter less and less as time went on and having 10,000xp less than the rest of the party would mean less and less (though, as you level, death become harsher and harsher, to the point were if you die, you can't play anymore)

BUT, with rule 1, XP is not only not a river anymore, but the penalty for having 10,000xp less do not diminish, it just stay since you gain feats at a fixed, every 5000xp rate in E6.

In summary: you die, you become permanently weaker than your team mates, with the rolling HP and Stat in place, a single death may mean you are forever stuck as a lousy sidekick that can't be used as target practice.

Honestly, every time you re-roll, you're gonna have to SIGNIFICANTLY up the optimization bar if you want to be anything else than a dead-weight

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The only items I would have any issues with:

2. and 3. - If starting at 1st level, if you roll poorly on ability scores and/or hit points, just immediately retire/suicide the character and start another one. You can even 'encounter' the rest of the party and get killed by them to give them all 300 xp plus extra gear/gold.

7. Absolutely unacceptable. This is nothing short of punishing players for their characters' deaths, and when it's very unlikely that it was their own fault this is completely unfair. If I had a character die under this rule, and my new character would be two or more levels below the current lowest level character in the party, I would quit the game right then and there.

8. Capture a bunch of kobolds and lock them all into separate sheds. Open the door of one shed for an 'encounter', beat it down with nonlethal damage, then lock it back inside. Go to the tavern for a drink to celebrate your 300 xp. Do the same for the next shed, repeat as often as desired to level up for no effort.

9. Here's the UA taint rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/campaigns/taint.htm), and due to the limitations on books and race it doesn't appear that they'd be able to abuse it (i.e. make a Necropolitan, take Tainted Sorcerer, and get a nigh-infinite taint score to use as your spellcasting stat as you can completely ignore taint as an undead creature). There isn't exactly anything wrong with it, just read up on it and be prepared to protect yourself from accumulating it.

[Thanatosia]

Kill a goblin? Get 300 xp
Kill a goblin, rest a sec, kill a 2nd goblin? Get 600xp
Kill 2 goblins fighting together? Get 300xp
Kill 100 goblins in a heroic stand? Get 300xp
Find a stragler goblin at the end of the heroic stand? Get 300xp
Step on a bug? Get 300xp
Wave hello to the lady crossing the street? Get 300xp
Slay the gods in a grand melee that dumps the celestial realms into the abyss and opens a portal to the far realms? Get 300xp

dumbest. rule. ever.

[erikun]

7. Whenever a character dies, the new character is allowed to start with half the original character's xp.
This rule is the one I'd have the biggest problem with. Character death will drop a player several levels behind the party, and with the flat XP gain they would never be able to catch up.

It sounds like a rather boring situation, because either the party will be forced to take easier challenges (due to the lower leveled character) or the single PC will be caught in a repeated death cycle of losing XP every adventure.


8. Every encounter (including social situations and skill challenges, though) gives you 300 xp. No exceptions.
This just seems silly. Negotiating with a shopkeeper is worth the same XP as slaying a dragon? I certainly hope your DM is not the railroading type, because unless a situation is immediately dangerous or worth lots of gold, there isn't much reason to engage difficult encounters over easy ones or nonviolent ones.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

The only items I would have any issues with:

2. and 3. - If starting at 1st level, if you roll poorly on ability scores and/or hit points, just immediately retire/suicide the character and start another one. You can even 'encounter' the rest of the party and get killed by them to give them all 300 xp plus extra gear/gold.

7. Absolutely unacceptable. This is nothing short of punishing players for their characters' deaths, and when it's very unlikely that it was their own fault this is completely unfair. If I had a character die under this rule, and my new character would be two or more levels below the current lowest level character in the party, I would quit the game right then and there.

8. Capture a bunch of kobolds and lock them all into separate sheds. Open the door of one shed for an 'encounter', beat it down with nonlethal damage, then lock it back inside. Go to the tavern for a drink to celebrate your 300 xp. Do the same for the next shed, repeat as often as desired to level up for no effort.

9. Here's the UA taint rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/campaigns/taint.htm), and due to the limitations on books and race it doesn't appear that they'd be able to abuse it (i.e. make a Necropolitan, take Tainted Sorcerer, and get a nigh-infinite taint score to use as your spellcasting stat as you can completely ignore taint as an undead creature). There isn't exactly anything wrong with it, just read up on it and be prepared to protect yourself from accumulating it.

The big problem with it is that they don't get access to (Greater) Restoration, Heal or Atonement. Ever. Once a player gets one Taint point, the only way to remove it is by beseeching the DM.

[SciChronic]

Kill a goblin? Get 300 xp
Kill a goblin, rest a sec, kill a 2nd goblin? Get 600xp
Kill 2 goblins fighting together? Get 300xp
Kill 100 goblins in a heroic stand? Get 300xp
Find a stragler goblin at the end of the heroic stand? Get 300xp
Step on a bug? Get 300xp
Wave hello to the lady crossing the street? Get 300xp
Slay the gods in a grand melee that dumps the celestial realms into the abyss and opens a portal to the far realms? Get 300xp

dumbest. rule. ever.

it'd be fine if the DM didnt also talk on the "you lose half of your xp if you die" clause onto his games which means once you fall behind, you are forever behind by a massive margin

[Tyndmyr]

The big problem with it is that they don't get access to (Greater) Restoration, Heal or Atonement. Ever. Once a player gets one Taint point, the only way to remove it is by beseeching the DM.

Or just embrace Tainted Scholar and laugh manically.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The big problem with it is that they don't get access to (Greater) Restoration, Heal or Atonement. Ever. Once a player gets one Taint point, the only way to remove it is by beseeching the DM.

Right, E6... There's always custom Incantations (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/incantations.htm) to reproduce the same effects of those spells.

[Karnith]

Or just embrace Tainted Scholar and laugh manically.
Because of the book restrictions, it's limited to just Tainted Sorcerer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/campaigns/taint.htm#taintedSorcerer), actually. Which is still frighteningly strong, of course.

[JaronK]

1. E6 rules with some expections listed below

Good way to do a more controlled low power game, which I think he wants.


2. 4d6, drop lowest for stat generation. The sum of your modifiers must be 0 or lower to allow re-rolling, I think.

Sounds like the default rule, not a house rule. Reasonable.


3. HP is rolled for at every level, including the first.

Poor idea in general, I'd say, but hardly a show stopper.


4. Humans only (understandably so, the setting requires it).

For the sake of the setting, this makes sense.


5. PHB core classes only.
6. Other books available for alternative class features and feats (probably prestige classes as well, although I am not sure) include Complete Warrior, Complete Arcane, Complete Divine and Complete Adventurer, as well as Player's Handbook II and Unearthed Arcana. MIC and Arms & Equipment Guide are allowed at the DM's concession.

I'd find this list of classes boring, and also it can create balance issues due to the horrible balance in the PHB base classes. Not the end of the world, but still.


7. Whenever a character dies, the new character is allowed to start with half the original character's xp.
8. Every encounter (including social situations and skill challenges, though) gives you 300 xp. No exceptions.

Horrible combination of rules! Die once and you can never catch up, die a few times and you're terribly far behind. I could see something like "half exp when you die, and encounters give 600xp until you catch up" or something. But this? That's horrible.


9. Taint rules from Unearthed Arcana.

So... play a Wizard or Cleric, and take Tainted Sorcerer at level 6. There's no reason not to, and it would make you FAR more powerful!

JaronK

[Jon_Dahl]

I like your houserules. They bear some similarity with mine.

[Platymus Pus]

3,7, and 8 are the worst have the DM get rid of them.

[VariSami]

3,7, and 8 are the worst have the DM get rid of them.

Just as I suspected - this seems to be the consensus. As a note, though, to those making remarks of some things being core standard and not house rules (such as the 4d6, drop lowest): I know. However, they were chosen from a list of possible core alternatives, and I felt like they should be listed for completeness's sake. For example, I agree that only 3, 7 and 8 cause problems (well, actually 9 as well for reasons listed on this page), but part of the reason is the existence of those other rulings (as opposed to house rules, I suppose). E6 seems like a blast in itself.

I really appreciate the feedback. For example, while I had realized the problem with the combination of 7 & 8 to a degree, this illuminated the truth of it even better. I will challenge him about them on these grounds.

Oh, and for those wondering what kind of a game it is (which, of course, affects the effects of these rules): our party of three is a cell of Witchers. While the world itself is not from the Witcher novels and there are some differences between the original Witchers and us, the job is essentially the same. Killing dangerous magical beings, that is. We are sent on missions to find and exterminate supernatural threats after investigating what they might be. Our first quarry was a Grell (MM2), and we actually managed to slay it with the combination of a net trap, a bat swarm (from a scroll; we were somewhat well equipped) and a finishing touch from my Druidic Avenger with Whirling Frenzy.

Also, there is a random encounter table made by him, as I mentioned in passing in the original post. We have only encountered a fully armored rider with a greatsword thus far (and managed to hide), so I cannot comment on what it holds. But knowing him, it has encounters somewhere between CR 2 and CR 7, probably no friendly encounters.

[Firechanter]

1. E6: TBH I don't quite understand why people want to play a castrated D&D. If you want lower power level/cap, there are about ten thousand systems out there that do it better, and many of them cost $10 or less.

2. 4k3: I hate random stat generation, because dice hate me.

3. rolled 1st level hp: This is utterly, unbelievably stupid.

4. humans only: actually I don't mind that; some setting are like that, and humans are always a solid choice for any class.

5. PHB classes: I fail to see the reason, especially considering that there is no book more imbalanced than the PHB. Maybe the DM doesn't want to get acquainted with additional mechanics, like those alternative magic systems such as psionics, vestiges etc. But then he could still limit the banhammer to those classes, and allow the rest. I would miss access to my personal favourites from Tome of Battle.

6. splat access: Well, that's better than nothing. You can even build an Ubercharger with that, if I'm not mistaken. Sounds like killing stuff before it can ever touch you will be your best life insurance.

7. 50% death penalty: WAAAGH!
As if losing your character in and of itself wasn't a bad enough punishment. But this half-XP rule is ridiculous.

8. flat 300XP: Doesn't seem to be so terribly well thought through. Especially as you have no checks on the DM in terms of encounter frequency and difficulty. OTOH, in some D20 variants like Conan RPG you don't get any encounter XP at all, but level up precisely when the GM wants you to, and that hasn't worked out too badly for us.

9. Taint rules: No comment, because I'm not familiar with them and don't want to analyze them.

--

In short: sounds like that game could become pretty frustrating.

[Spuddles]

Looks pretty fun to me, though I can be pretty pretty "gamist" in my approach, and that looks like playing the game on hard mode.

The 300xp per encounter could be cool if it was like "unlock a door and bypass a trap", talk to the barkeep, find a dude, haggle with a shopkeep. You could probably get that xp to rack up fast if out of combat encounters were quickly resolved.

[Zombimode]

Basically,
1. E6 rules with some expections listed below
2. 4d6, drop lowest for stat generation. The sum of your modifiers must be 0 or lower to allow re-rolling, I think.
3. HP is rolled for at every level, including the first.
4. Humans only (understandably so, the setting requires it).
5. PHB core classes only.
6. Other books available for alternative class features and feats (probably prestige classes as well, although I am not sure) include Complete Warrior, Complete Arcane, Complete Divine and Complete Adventurer, as well as Player's Handbook II and Unearthed Arcana. MIC and Arms & Equipment Guide are allowed at the DM's concession.
7. Whenever a character dies, the new character is allowed to start with half the original character's xp.
8. Every encounter (including social situations and skill challenges, though) gives you 300 xp. No exceptions.
9. Taint rules from Unearthed Arcana.

1. I love E6 :-)
2. Mkay, not my style, but whatever.
3. Really don't like this one. I would actually fight over this. Why? Because I don't think there is any rational reason for this. So if your DM can be talked with at all, you should win this argument :smallamused:
4. Sure, setting is setting. (I rarely if ever play anything but humans, so it would not impact me in the slightest)
5 & 6. I'm not a fan of such rigorous limiting of options. The wealth of material is one of the selling points of 3.5. I would really confront him to explain his reasoning for this one.
7. Since this is E6, this is doable. I personally wouldn't use the "half xp" rule, but having new characters start significantly lower in level is very possible in E6 since the power level is much more contained.
8. Weird. Really weird, but as a player you will probably not notice it all that much.
9. Sure, why not (I'm using HoH taint rules myself).

[Savannah]

Sounds like house rules for a survival horror game. I'd play it, but I wouldn't be expecting it to play like "normal" D&D.

[The Trickster]

Right. I have jokingly and less jokingly mentioned some of the limitations of my local go-to DM and friend has. He just began a new campaign, and I kid you not, he has actually taken it up to eleven. Okay, some of his limitations (such as the banning of Tier 1 and 2 classes) were actually lifted. However, I would like to hear some opinions (and preferably arguments and suggestions for bettering the whole) about the current houserules we are to game under. Would you even bother with such a game?

Basically,
1. E6 rules with some expections listed below
2. 4d6, drop lowest for stat generation. The sum of your modifiers must be 0 or lower to allow re-rolling, I think.
3. HP is rolled for at every level, including the first.
4. Humans only (understandably so, the setting requires it).
5. PHB core classes only.
6. Other books available for alternative class features and feats (probably prestige classes as well, although I am not sure) include Complete Warrior, Complete Arcane, Complete Divine and Complete Adventurer, as well as Player's Handbook II and Unearthed Arcana. MIC and Arms & Equipment Guide are allowed at the DM's concession.
7. Whenever a character dies, the new character is allowed to start with half the original character's xp.
8. Every encounter (including social situations and skill challenges, though) gives you 300 xp. No exceptions.
9. Taint rules from Unearthed Arcana.

My problems with these rules are, that:
1. The game is about high level challenges which must be prepared for. However, we are very fragile (especially at first level) if bad luck happens, and such things should not really be left to luck. A character could easily start with 1-3hp, even if he was a barbarian. While the random hp generation at first level is a generally bad idea in my opinion (it makes non-casters an even worse idea, for example), it meshes especially bad with the theme of the campaign. Of course, we can subvert this to a degree with traps and other such tactics but only to a decree.
2. Due to the amount of chance involved with cha-gen and the penalties for dying, a player might actually end up in a spiral due to bad luck. And due to the challenges scaling with the rest of the party (although there are also random encounters which do not scale; the table is common to all levels).
3. All the damn limitations. You know, PHB+UA-only is essentially what the game boils down to.
4. The flat amount of xp is actually probably the worst offender. We are not rewarded for actually tackling challenges. Of course, as players, we are not motivated to just sit around doing menial things, but we *could* receive the same amount of xp by essentially doing nothing. In the wirst case scenario, this might turn out to be necessary.

The game itself is set in an enjoyable setting, I was somewhat lucky with my first (current) character, and the gaming group is enjoyable to hang with. However, all these things keep nagging me. Would you agree that there is really something wrong with the combination of these rules, and/or individual rules?

Hopefully I am not repeating other people here, but my opinion;

1). Go for it. Sounds like fun.

2). Stats may be a little uneven for everyone, but this isn't terrible.

3). Seems silly. Just give them max level one HP. Not sure what the point here is.

4). This is fine for setting reasons.

5). Is the DM new? Otherwise, I don't like this very much. PHB is well known for its potential imbalance, and the other books can add a lot of flavor. If s/he is new, however, I can see the reason why the ban.

6). Adds some options, sure. But why not just add the othet classes as well?

7). Uhmmmm no. Just no. Unless there is a good reason for this (a plot hook or something), this seems a little too harsh.

8). No again. The game gives different amounts of XP for different encounters for a reason.

9). Sure, why not. Not my cup of tea, but if it fits the setting, have fun.

I would just ask why some of the rules are the way they are. If you can understand the reasoning behind them, then all is well.

[Scow2]

To me, on point #7... It's better to have an underleveled asset in a party in an e6 game (Where "Level appropriate Encounters" are not a thing) than no character, or a party-level Dead Guy.

And, if you're a lower level than the rest of the party - don't compare yourself to them, compare yourself to you - remain an autonomous individual. You're not fighting a Manticore because you're average party level is 5: You're fighting a Manticore because that manticore needs to die, even if you're all level 1!

Leveling up is a reward, not something to be taken for granted. Death isn't due to "A bad run of luck" - Death is caused by screwing up somewhere.

My only problem, again, is with "All encounters are worth 300 XP", because it screws up the risk-reward dynamic, even if they don't use "Experience is a river" - Lower-level characters should get more XP than higher ones because they overcame a relatively stronger challenge, not because they're below "the party level" - each Witcher is a party of 1, working with what might as well be NPCs, even if they're played by other characters.

Taint means being in dangerous places needs caution - get in, get the job done, and get out before you lose your mind. It's a non-timebomb time pressure on adventures.

[IronFist]

I'm pretty sure the death penalties are meant to make you stick to your character. If he dies, you get someone to Raise him or something.
It's one of the things I like about PF, actually.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

It's E6. None of the various resurrection options exist.

[IronFist]

It's E6. None of the various resurrection options exist.
Your DM is free to use E6 however he sees fit, but all E6 means is that players don't get access to ressurrection, not that it does not exist. Angels and archons get raise dead as a spell-like ability, for example.

[Scow2]

Your DM is free to use E6 however he sees fit, but all E6 means is that players don't get access to ressurrection, not that it does not exist. Angels and archons get raise dead as a spell-like ability, for example.

There are also incantations. But, even without chances to res, the "Half XP" rule means you want to try your hardest to not die.

[IronFist]

There are also incantations. But, even without chances to res, the "Half XP" rule means you want to try your hardest to not die.

Indeed. In my games, I usually rule that new characters join at average party level -1 (which is actually a rule from the 3.0 DMG), so I guess that's the rule I'd run with in this case.

[Scow2]

Indeed. In my games, I usually rule that new characters join at average party level -1 (which is actually a rule from the 3.0 DMG), so I guess that's the rule I'd run with in this case.

Which, in an e6 game, is 0% original XP for a level 2 character, 33% XP loss for a level 3 character, 50% XP for a level 4 character, 60% for a level 5 character, and 75% for a level 6 character.

Death takes a big chunk out of the power of a party. The solution to that isn't to cry about it - it's to not get yourself killed.

With death carrying no penalty, the party loses 0% of its resources upon player death (And often gains 10-25% more resources due to WBL)

[VariSami]

I'm pretty sure the death penalties are meant to make you stick to your character. If he dies, you get someone to Raise him or something.
It's one of the things I like about PF, actually.

Actually, no. He absolutely despises resurrection spells. Also, the campaign is "story-centered" instead of "character-centered" and we are encouraged to change characters from time to time. Which... might be a natural occurrence with the associated death penalties since the DM constantly gripes about battles with no character deaths feeling too easy to him.

Oh, and he is not that new to the system. I have been playing with him for about five years now (although there was a pause). It seems like he just hates the idea that players might optimize or try something too exotic. Admittedly, he has seen some optimization, and even I feel like I have contributed to his hate for options in the past. The amount of material allowed has been decreasing slowly over two years or so.

[OldTrees1]

1) Story centric rather than character centric
2) No character deaths is too easy
3) Steadily decreasing options

You should ask him what he wants since it seems that he wants something far different from what is normal for an RPG. Better communication would help matters.

Edit:
An RPG may be able to handle what he wants but it would take good communication beforehand.

[Scow2]

1) Story centric rather than character centric
2) No character deaths is too easy
3) Steadily decreasing options

You should ask him what he wants since it seems that he wants something far different from what is normal for an RPG. Better communication would help matters.

Edit:
An RPG may be able to handle what he wants but it would take good communication beforehand.While it's possible he could be a sadistic GM, given how #2 was phrased... I'm not really sure that's the case. And none of these are "Different from what is 'normal' for an RPG", because there's no such thing as 'normal'.

Story-centric means that the game keeps going, but the individual actors are irrelevant. It doesn't necessarily mean that agency isn't a thing. It's about the players and world, not their characters.

No character deaths = too easy... This doesn't really bode well with his harsh penalties for dying, since it seems to imply that, if you do well, he'll up the ante until someone is forced to trip up or is put in a situation where death comes from dumb luck/situations outside their control. Arms races are bad.

Reducing options and his anti-optimization stance... doesn't bode well if he simply uses PC deaths as his measure of difficulty. I can understand him wanting to ban things that spike the optimization/power level of the game, though, such as Ubercharging and a large list of spells.

[Big Fau]

It sounds like the DM would rather play Dark Souls than D&D...

[Scow2]

It sounds like the DM would rather play Dark Souls than D&D...Which is implying D&D is not capable of being houseruled to give a grittier, more Dark Souls-like feel. D&D, being the fantasy RPG, is capable of being houseruled to handle any kind of campaign, story, or tone.

[OldTrees1]

While it's possible he could be a sadistic GM, given how #2 was phrased... I'm not really sure that's the case. And none of these are "Different from what is 'normal' for an RPG", because there's no such thing as 'normal'.

Story-centric means that the game keeps going, but the individual actors are irrelevant. It doesn't necessarily mean that agency isn't a thing. It's about the players and world, not their characters.

No character deaths = too easy... This doesn't really bode well with his harsh penalties for dying, since it seems to imply that, if you do well, he'll up the ante until someone is forced to trip up or is put in a situation where death comes from dumb luck/situations outside their control. Arms races are bad.

Reducing options and his anti-optimization stance... doesn't bode well if he simply uses PC deaths as his measure of difficulty. I can understand him wanting to ban things that spike the optimization/power level of the game, though, such as Ubercharging and a large list of spells.
For all things there is a normal. Normal may be a broad category but there is a normal. Things outside the normal are not wrong, just not necessarily expected or assumed.

The things I listed hint to me (along with the houserules) that this DM might be further from the norm than was initially expected. This isn't wrong, it merely means that more communication is ideal.

Now there are other explanations for these hints, but in either case more communication is ideal.

Now if I am right and the DM does want to use D&D to create an abnormal campaign then that is not a bad thing but would work better if the players knew as well and were able to help the DM in using D&D to create that style of play.