Savannah
2013-09-14, 08:06 PM
Introduction
This consolidated skill system is based on the D&D 3.5 skill system. Anything not detailed below is the same as in standard 3.5.
I’ve had problems with the 3.5 skill system for a long time. I find that there are too many skills, meaning that those classes with very few skill points aren’t able to do much of anything, and those that are supposed to be skill monkeys still aren’t able to do everything they want to. Many of these skills are used together (how many times do you try to move silently without hiding as well?), meaning that characters practically have to spend skill points on keeping two skills maxed and have twice as many chances to fail for any given action. Additionally, some skills are less useful than others (Heal vs. Use Magic Device, for example), meaning that those skills are almost never taken.
My goal in rewriting the skill system is first to reduce the number of skills available so that a character’s few skill points go further, and second to make less useful or highly situational skills more useful, either in their own right or as one part of a more useful skill.
Using Skills in Game
In addition to the normal (active) skill checks, passive skill checks are used to determine if characters notice something they are not actively looking for or know something they are not actively trying to remember (i.e. the DM gives the player information without the player asking). Your passive skill check works the same as taking 10 and can only be used in situations where taking 10 would be allowed.
Skills that use passive checks include (but are not limited to) Intuition, Knowledge, and Perception.
Gaining Skills when Leveling
Determining Class Skills
If a class was proficient in one of these skills, the new, consolidated skill is a class skill for that class. For example, Bluff and Disguise have been rolled into Deception. Bluff was a class skill for sorcerers (while Disguise was not), so Deception is a class skill for sorcerers, who are now able to disguise themselves as well.
Synergy Bonuses
There are no synergy bonuses.
Cross-Class Skills
Taking ranks in a cross-class skill still costs two skill points, but there is no cap on how many cross class skill ranks a character can have.
Skill List
New SkillAbilityWas
AcrobaticsADex Balance, Escape Artist, Tumble
AthleticsAStr Climb, Jump, Swim
Concentration Con Concentration
Craft Int Craft, Forgery*
Deception Cha Bluff, Disguise
Disable DeviceTDex Disable Device, Open Lock
Handle Animal Cha Handle Animal, Ride
Heal Wis Heal*
Intuition Wis Gather Information, Sense Motive
Knowledge (arcana)TInt Knowledge*
Knowledge (engineering)TIntKnowledge*
Knowledge (history)TInt Knowledge*
Knowledge (present day)TInt Knowledge*
Knowledge (nature)TIntKnowledge*
Knowledge (planes)TInt Knowledge*
Knowledge (religion)TInt Knowledge*
LinguisticsInt Decipher Script, Speak Language*
Perception Wis Listen, Spot
Perform Cha Perform
Persuasion Cha Diplomacy*, Intimidate*
ProfessionTWis Profession
SearchInt Search
Sleight of HandA, TDex Sleight of Hand
SpellcraftTInt Spellcraft
StealthADex Hide, Move Silently
Survival Wis Survival, Use Rope
Use Magic DeviceTCha Use Magic Device
A Armor check penalty applies
T Trained only
* Substantially changed, see below for details
Changed Skills
Appraise
Appraise no longer exists as a skill, as I find that it adds nothing to the game. PCs can figure out what something is worth automatically. On the rare occasions that not knowing the value of an item will actually add to the players' experience, substitute an Intelligence, Craft, or Knowledge check, as appropriate.
Craft
Forgery is now a type of Craft and is opposed by Intuition.
Heal
In addition to the normal uses of Heal, you can cure hit point damage. This only works once per character per encounter for injuries sustained in that encounter, and takes 5 minutes of patching up. This is intended to as out-of-combat healing after combat or other injury.
A DC 20 Heal check cures 1d6+Wis modifier hit points (minimum 1 hit point). For every five points the check beats the DC, the check cures another d6+Wis modifier hit points.
Knowledge skills
Knowledge skills allow you to recognize creatures, know and remember facts, figure things out, and identify important pieces of information. The following are samples of things covered under each knowledge skill.
Knowledge (arcana)
Scholars of magic, magical locations, meaning of arcane symbols, whether or not an item was created by magic, aberrations, constructs, dragons, magical beasts, and oozes.
Knowledge (engineering)
Types of material, typical floorplans, typical city layout, how to fortify a location, how to break fortifications, how to build siege engines, slope of the floor, style and approximate age of a structure, former use of structures and rooms within structures, whether a structure is artificial or natural, structural weaknesses, hazardous artificial terrain (unstable floor, weak bridge, etc), most likely location of structural feature (throne room, stairs, door to secret chamber, etc).
Knowledge (history)
Historical events (generally a decade old or more), myths and legends, historical kingdom boundaries, legendary sites, historical wars and feuds, unsolved ancient mysteries, historical rulers, family history and line of succession for rulers, dates of specific events.
Knowledge (present day)
Laws, etiquette and customs, current kingdom boundaries, ongoing wars and feuds, rulers and their symbols, rumors and scandals, important people (heir to the throne, queen’s advisor, high priest, crime lord, etc), secret societies, popular locations, recent events (generally within the last decade), a creature’s homeland.
Knowledge (nature)
Geography, seasons and climate, major terrain features, typical dangers of various terrains, upcoming weather, your current location, whether a structure is natural or artificial, depth underground, natural hazards (conditions for avalanche, cave-in, wildfire, etc), unnatural weather, animals, fey, giants, humanoids, monstrous humanoids, plants, vermin.
Knowledge (planes)
Names and types of planes, features of a plane, planar dangers, what plane you’re on, what plane a creature is from, elementals, outsiders.
Knowledge (religion)
Gods, portfolios and domains, holy symbols, important priests, rituals of worship, cults, undead.
Linguistics
The Decipher Script aspect of this skill works as normal. The Speak Language aspect is changed as follows:
Fluency
Speaking and writing languages are now tracked separately. Within each, there are three levels of fluency:
{table=head]Fluency | Speaking/hearing | Writing/reading | Game effects
1 | You understand the basics of the language. You can exchange pleasantries, ask for directions, purchase items, and other day-to-day tasks, but you struggle with extended or detailed conversations. You have a heavy accent and are clearly not a native speaker. | You can read at a grade-school level. While you can understand basic signs and similar text, legal contracts and the like are beyond you. | This level of fluency imposes a −2 to −6 penalty to all language-based skill checks, depending on the complexity of the ideas conveyed and the formality of the situation (chatting up a barmaid vs. negotiating with the king, for example).
2 | You have a solid grasp of the language. You can easily go about your day speaking the language and have reasonably detailed conversations without struggling for words, but idioms and formal or archaic language still trip you up. You may have a minor accent and those who spend a long time conversing with you can tell you are not a native speaker or are a fairly uneducated native speaker. | You can read at a high-school level. You can easily get by in your daily life, but struggle with legal contracts and technical language. | This level of fluency imposes a −0 to −2 penalty to all language-based skill checks, depending on the complexity of the ideas conveyed and the formality of the situation (most of the time you will have no penalty, but a discussion of the theory of magic, negotiating a treaty, and similar will have a penalty).
3 | You are an educated, fluent speaker. Not only can you easily go about your day speaking the language, but you can also handle complex or formal speech. | You can read at or above college level and can understand complex or technical documents. | This level of fluency never imposes a penalty to any language-based skill checks. [/table]
Your level of fluency in a language is written [language] ([speaking]/[writing]). For example, someone who can speak Elven pretty well but cannot write it at all would have Elven (2/0).
Learning Languages
Characters of a race with one racial language start with 6 language points in their native tongue, making them fluent speakers and writers in that language. Optionally, they can spend one (and only one) of those points on a smattering of a second language from their bonus languages list.
Characters of a race with two racial languages start with 10 language points split between those languages (typically 3/3, 2/2 or 3/3, 3/1). Optionally, they can spend one (and only one) of those points on a smattering of a third language from their bonus languages list.
Characters with an Intelligence bonus gain 4 language points per point of Int bonus, which they can spend on their automatic or bonus languages.
Characters who put a rank in Linguistics gain 2 language points which they can spend however they please. Note that these come only from RANKS in Linguistics, not total bonus.
Fluency and Spells
Spells dealing with language (comprehend languages, tongues, etc) grant fluency at 3/3. Thus a spellcaster who speaks Goblin (1/0) would be wise to cast tongues, granting her Goblin 3/3, before beginning negotiations with the goblin chieftain.
Persuasion
(Based on Rich Burlew’s Diplomacy fix, found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9606632#post9606632). See that thread for more details and definitions.)
This skill allows you to convince others to do as you wish, either through offering incentives for their cooperation or threats of negative consequences if they do not comply.
The base DC for a Persuasion check depends on who the target is. This number is then modified by the relationship between the characters and the risks and rewards of taking the deal.
Each check takes at least a minute of talking, and may require much more.
The Target
Base DC = 15 + the level of the highest-level character in the group (HD for monsters) + the highest Wisdom modifier in the group.
The Relationship
Generally, those with a close relationship find it easier to persuade through incentives than through threats, while those who are enemies find the opposite to be true. (If offering both a reward and a threat, use the threat column.)
RelationshipDC Modifier (reward)DC Modifier (threat)
Intimate
−10
+10
Friend
−7
+7
Ally (no personal feelings)
−5
+5
Acquaintance (positive)
−2
+2
Just met
0
0
Acquaintance (negative)
+2
−2
Enemy (no personal feelings)
+5
−5
Personal foe
+7
−7
Nemesis
+10
−10
Risk vs. Reward Judgment
The risks and rewards of accepting and not accepting the proposal are considered from the perspective of the NPC.
DC modifierRisk vs. Reward
−10Fantastic: Great reward, little to no risk
−5Favorable: Decent reward, tolerable risk
0Even: Risk and reward are even or nonexistent
+5Unfavorable: Moderate reward, large risk
+10Horrible: Little to no reward, huge risk
Success?
CheckResult
Beats DCTarget accepts deal as-is or with minimal changes
Fails by ≤5Target rejects deal, but might make counter offer that pushes the deal up by at least one step on the risk vs. reward scale
Fails by 6–9Target rejects deal, but later deals may be possible
Fails by ≥10Target rejects deal and will not consider further deals
When making a threat, regardless of the check result, the target is likely to become hostile to the persuader. When and how, or even if, they act on this hostility is up to the DM. Similarly, if the persuader offers a reward and carries through with it, the target is likely to become friendly (or friendlier) towards the persuader. Again, the details of how this plays out are up to the DM.
I would appreciate any thoughts you have on this system! :smallsmile:
This consolidated skill system is based on the D&D 3.5 skill system. Anything not detailed below is the same as in standard 3.5.
I’ve had problems with the 3.5 skill system for a long time. I find that there are too many skills, meaning that those classes with very few skill points aren’t able to do much of anything, and those that are supposed to be skill monkeys still aren’t able to do everything they want to. Many of these skills are used together (how many times do you try to move silently without hiding as well?), meaning that characters practically have to spend skill points on keeping two skills maxed and have twice as many chances to fail for any given action. Additionally, some skills are less useful than others (Heal vs. Use Magic Device, for example), meaning that those skills are almost never taken.
My goal in rewriting the skill system is first to reduce the number of skills available so that a character’s few skill points go further, and second to make less useful or highly situational skills more useful, either in their own right or as one part of a more useful skill.
Using Skills in Game
In addition to the normal (active) skill checks, passive skill checks are used to determine if characters notice something they are not actively looking for or know something they are not actively trying to remember (i.e. the DM gives the player information without the player asking). Your passive skill check works the same as taking 10 and can only be used in situations where taking 10 would be allowed.
Skills that use passive checks include (but are not limited to) Intuition, Knowledge, and Perception.
Gaining Skills when Leveling
Determining Class Skills
If a class was proficient in one of these skills, the new, consolidated skill is a class skill for that class. For example, Bluff and Disguise have been rolled into Deception. Bluff was a class skill for sorcerers (while Disguise was not), so Deception is a class skill for sorcerers, who are now able to disguise themselves as well.
Synergy Bonuses
There are no synergy bonuses.
Cross-Class Skills
Taking ranks in a cross-class skill still costs two skill points, but there is no cap on how many cross class skill ranks a character can have.
Skill List
New SkillAbilityWas
AcrobaticsADex Balance, Escape Artist, Tumble
AthleticsAStr Climb, Jump, Swim
Concentration Con Concentration
Craft Int Craft, Forgery*
Deception Cha Bluff, Disguise
Disable DeviceTDex Disable Device, Open Lock
Handle Animal Cha Handle Animal, Ride
Heal Wis Heal*
Intuition Wis Gather Information, Sense Motive
Knowledge (arcana)TInt Knowledge*
Knowledge (engineering)TIntKnowledge*
Knowledge (history)TInt Knowledge*
Knowledge (present day)TInt Knowledge*
Knowledge (nature)TIntKnowledge*
Knowledge (planes)TInt Knowledge*
Knowledge (religion)TInt Knowledge*
LinguisticsInt Decipher Script, Speak Language*
Perception Wis Listen, Spot
Perform Cha Perform
Persuasion Cha Diplomacy*, Intimidate*
ProfessionTWis Profession
SearchInt Search
Sleight of HandA, TDex Sleight of Hand
SpellcraftTInt Spellcraft
StealthADex Hide, Move Silently
Survival Wis Survival, Use Rope
Use Magic DeviceTCha Use Magic Device
A Armor check penalty applies
T Trained only
* Substantially changed, see below for details
Changed Skills
Appraise
Appraise no longer exists as a skill, as I find that it adds nothing to the game. PCs can figure out what something is worth automatically. On the rare occasions that not knowing the value of an item will actually add to the players' experience, substitute an Intelligence, Craft, or Knowledge check, as appropriate.
Craft
Forgery is now a type of Craft and is opposed by Intuition.
Heal
In addition to the normal uses of Heal, you can cure hit point damage. This only works once per character per encounter for injuries sustained in that encounter, and takes 5 minutes of patching up. This is intended to as out-of-combat healing after combat or other injury.
A DC 20 Heal check cures 1d6+Wis modifier hit points (minimum 1 hit point). For every five points the check beats the DC, the check cures another d6+Wis modifier hit points.
Knowledge skills
Knowledge skills allow you to recognize creatures, know and remember facts, figure things out, and identify important pieces of information. The following are samples of things covered under each knowledge skill.
Knowledge (arcana)
Scholars of magic, magical locations, meaning of arcane symbols, whether or not an item was created by magic, aberrations, constructs, dragons, magical beasts, and oozes.
Knowledge (engineering)
Types of material, typical floorplans, typical city layout, how to fortify a location, how to break fortifications, how to build siege engines, slope of the floor, style and approximate age of a structure, former use of structures and rooms within structures, whether a structure is artificial or natural, structural weaknesses, hazardous artificial terrain (unstable floor, weak bridge, etc), most likely location of structural feature (throne room, stairs, door to secret chamber, etc).
Knowledge (history)
Historical events (generally a decade old or more), myths and legends, historical kingdom boundaries, legendary sites, historical wars and feuds, unsolved ancient mysteries, historical rulers, family history and line of succession for rulers, dates of specific events.
Knowledge (present day)
Laws, etiquette and customs, current kingdom boundaries, ongoing wars and feuds, rulers and their symbols, rumors and scandals, important people (heir to the throne, queen’s advisor, high priest, crime lord, etc), secret societies, popular locations, recent events (generally within the last decade), a creature’s homeland.
Knowledge (nature)
Geography, seasons and climate, major terrain features, typical dangers of various terrains, upcoming weather, your current location, whether a structure is natural or artificial, depth underground, natural hazards (conditions for avalanche, cave-in, wildfire, etc), unnatural weather, animals, fey, giants, humanoids, monstrous humanoids, plants, vermin.
Knowledge (planes)
Names and types of planes, features of a plane, planar dangers, what plane you’re on, what plane a creature is from, elementals, outsiders.
Knowledge (religion)
Gods, portfolios and domains, holy symbols, important priests, rituals of worship, cults, undead.
Linguistics
The Decipher Script aspect of this skill works as normal. The Speak Language aspect is changed as follows:
Fluency
Speaking and writing languages are now tracked separately. Within each, there are three levels of fluency:
{table=head]Fluency | Speaking/hearing | Writing/reading | Game effects
1 | You understand the basics of the language. You can exchange pleasantries, ask for directions, purchase items, and other day-to-day tasks, but you struggle with extended or detailed conversations. You have a heavy accent and are clearly not a native speaker. | You can read at a grade-school level. While you can understand basic signs and similar text, legal contracts and the like are beyond you. | This level of fluency imposes a −2 to −6 penalty to all language-based skill checks, depending on the complexity of the ideas conveyed and the formality of the situation (chatting up a barmaid vs. negotiating with the king, for example).
2 | You have a solid grasp of the language. You can easily go about your day speaking the language and have reasonably detailed conversations without struggling for words, but idioms and formal or archaic language still trip you up. You may have a minor accent and those who spend a long time conversing with you can tell you are not a native speaker or are a fairly uneducated native speaker. | You can read at a high-school level. You can easily get by in your daily life, but struggle with legal contracts and technical language. | This level of fluency imposes a −0 to −2 penalty to all language-based skill checks, depending on the complexity of the ideas conveyed and the formality of the situation (most of the time you will have no penalty, but a discussion of the theory of magic, negotiating a treaty, and similar will have a penalty).
3 | You are an educated, fluent speaker. Not only can you easily go about your day speaking the language, but you can also handle complex or formal speech. | You can read at or above college level and can understand complex or technical documents. | This level of fluency never imposes a penalty to any language-based skill checks. [/table]
Your level of fluency in a language is written [language] ([speaking]/[writing]). For example, someone who can speak Elven pretty well but cannot write it at all would have Elven (2/0).
Learning Languages
Characters of a race with one racial language start with 6 language points in their native tongue, making them fluent speakers and writers in that language. Optionally, they can spend one (and only one) of those points on a smattering of a second language from their bonus languages list.
Characters of a race with two racial languages start with 10 language points split between those languages (typically 3/3, 2/2 or 3/3, 3/1). Optionally, they can spend one (and only one) of those points on a smattering of a third language from their bonus languages list.
Characters with an Intelligence bonus gain 4 language points per point of Int bonus, which they can spend on their automatic or bonus languages.
Characters who put a rank in Linguistics gain 2 language points which they can spend however they please. Note that these come only from RANKS in Linguistics, not total bonus.
Fluency and Spells
Spells dealing with language (comprehend languages, tongues, etc) grant fluency at 3/3. Thus a spellcaster who speaks Goblin (1/0) would be wise to cast tongues, granting her Goblin 3/3, before beginning negotiations with the goblin chieftain.
Persuasion
(Based on Rich Burlew’s Diplomacy fix, found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9606632#post9606632). See that thread for more details and definitions.)
This skill allows you to convince others to do as you wish, either through offering incentives for their cooperation or threats of negative consequences if they do not comply.
The base DC for a Persuasion check depends on who the target is. This number is then modified by the relationship between the characters and the risks and rewards of taking the deal.
Each check takes at least a minute of talking, and may require much more.
The Target
Base DC = 15 + the level of the highest-level character in the group (HD for monsters) + the highest Wisdom modifier in the group.
The Relationship
Generally, those with a close relationship find it easier to persuade through incentives than through threats, while those who are enemies find the opposite to be true. (If offering both a reward and a threat, use the threat column.)
RelationshipDC Modifier (reward)DC Modifier (threat)
Intimate
−10
+10
Friend
−7
+7
Ally (no personal feelings)
−5
+5
Acquaintance (positive)
−2
+2
Just met
0
0
Acquaintance (negative)
+2
−2
Enemy (no personal feelings)
+5
−5
Personal foe
+7
−7
Nemesis
+10
−10
Risk vs. Reward Judgment
The risks and rewards of accepting and not accepting the proposal are considered from the perspective of the NPC.
DC modifierRisk vs. Reward
−10Fantastic: Great reward, little to no risk
−5Favorable: Decent reward, tolerable risk
0Even: Risk and reward are even or nonexistent
+5Unfavorable: Moderate reward, large risk
+10Horrible: Little to no reward, huge risk
Success?
CheckResult
Beats DCTarget accepts deal as-is or with minimal changes
Fails by ≤5Target rejects deal, but might make counter offer that pushes the deal up by at least one step on the risk vs. reward scale
Fails by 6–9Target rejects deal, but later deals may be possible
Fails by ≥10Target rejects deal and will not consider further deals
When making a threat, regardless of the check result, the target is likely to become hostile to the persuader. When and how, or even if, they act on this hostility is up to the DM. Similarly, if the persuader offers a reward and carries through with it, the target is likely to become friendly (or friendlier) towards the persuader. Again, the details of how this plays out are up to the DM.
I would appreciate any thoughts you have on this system! :smallsmile: