[3.5]Make me a God

[BeserkerNike]

Yesterday i was talking with a friend and he invited me to a campaign he is DMing and they are really in need of a caster so i said sure
We are playing 3.5 ALL Books allowed (No homebrew)
Starting Level 8
Races Any (NO LA)
I said i am going to play a arcane caster or psion (it would be my first time)
and one more thing i need to send the class i am going to use to the DM for approval
The party consists of a Ranger,Fighter,Paladin,Monk and Rogue

[LordChaos13]

Needs more information

How OP is the game? Obviously not that OP with a non-Tash Monk
Why do you want to be a God?
What role do you want to play? a Blaster throwing out HP damage every turn in the form of fireballs and such, a Batman with the combat-ending spell for everything in your spells prepped, a God Wizard with the buffing spells to make your teammates indestructible and your enemies as strong as a lvl1 Magikarp?

[BeserkerNike]

Needs more information

How OP is the game? Obviously not that OP with a non-Tash Monk
Why do you want to be a God?
What role do you want to play? a Blaster throwing out HP damage every turn in the form of fireballs and such, a Batman with the combat-ending spell for everything in your spells prepped, a God Wizard with the buffing spells to make your teammates indestructible and your enemies as strong as a lvl1 Magikarp?

Well yesterday they had a session and they had 18 encounter one after another so a blaster would be good with a mix of making my teammates indestructible and my enemies lvl 1 Magikarp

[LordChaos13]

If you want my advice, you want either a Warlock or other infini-use OR a DMM Persist Cleric, not a Psion or a Wizard

You will run out of spells in an 18encounter/day game.

[BeserkerNike]

If you want my advice, you want either a Warlock or other infini-use OR a DMM Persist Cleric, not a Psion or a Wizard

You will run out of spells in an 18encounter/day game.
Then i will go with the infi-use could you write the class names if you know them that would be helpful and what is DMM Persist Cleric?

[dspeyer]

A full caster is likely to outshine that party. How about a bard? The music powers should work nicely spread over that much melee. Plus you can offer a little healing.

[HalfQuart]

A full caster is likely to outshine that party. How about a bard? The music powers should work nicely spread over that much melee. Plus you can offer a little healing.
That's an excellent recommendation for this party! With the basics of Dragonfire Inspiration (from Dragon Magic, page 17), a level of Sorcerer (perhaps Battle Sorcerer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#sorcererVariantBattleS orcerer)), and Draconic Heritage (also DrM 17 or Races of the Dragon 102), you can pick the type of damage to do... I like Pyroclastic Dragon (Races of the Dragon 102) -- since that dragon has two types of damage (fire and sonic), some people say you can change which type of damage you use each time; I interpret more conservatively and say you pick one when taking the feat, and you should take sonic -- which instead of giving your allies +1 to some saves and attack/damage with the Inspire Courage class ability, you can instead give your allies +1d6 damage with every attack.

Combine with a Badge of Valor (Magic Item Compendium 208) to 3/day increase the damage by +1d6 as an immediate action, and the Inspiration Boost spell (Spell Compendium 124) as a swift action (before using Inspire Courage), to give another 1d6, for a total of 3d6 extra damage to each attack.

You throw that on a melee heavy group like that, we're they're getting 10-12 attacks per round? Maybe they hit 8 times a round? That means they're doing an extra 8 x 3d6 = 24d6 damage/round, for at least 5 rounds. That's pretty sweet! (Granted you can't pull off the full combo 18/day.)

For a build, I'd recommend Bard 3/Battle Sorcerer1/Bard 4-5/Lyric Thaumaturge 2 (Complete Mage 67).

And since the party generally lacks robust healing abilities, the Healing Hymn ACF (Complete Champion 47) would probably be very useful, as would getting a Dove's Harp (Magic Item Compendium 156).

[Ruethgar]

Factotum 1, max lucid dreaming. There, you are a god.

[Kazyan]

Remember that a bard has limited Bardic Music uses per day. Warlock would be good, or possibly Binder of you know how to use one. I suggest binding Andras and Focalor to start out with, and branch out from there to vestiges you like better. If healing is very necessary, use Buer instead of onenof the above.

[BeserkerNike]

Remember that a bard has limited Bardic Music uses per day. Warlock would be good, or possibly Binder of you know how to use one. I suggest binding Andras and Focalor to start out with, and branch out from there to vestiges you like better. If healing is very necessary, use Buer instead of onenof the above.

Could you explain how the Binder works i am interested

[Kazyan]

I suggest reading a Binder handbook if you want to know exactly how they work. Basically, they select a set of powers every day, but may fall under the influence of the vestiges they draw those powers from. Binders don't run out of juice, and they can fill a lot of roles. It's very much an "advanced" class, though--you will need a cheat sheet of what the vestiges do. Like I said, at this level, try Andras and Focalor first. Those two are relatively straightforward damage sources. Other good ones are Otiax, if you like making touch attacks, and Paimon, for being a dervish.

Binders are complicated. Fair warning.

[BeserkerNike]

So i just asked my DM few things
Leadership is allowed
Templates are allowed but only +0
Starting gold 1000

[Humble Master]

Warlock would be good if you just want to throw damage everywhere 24/7. Wizard, and even Sorcerer will probably run out of spells in an 18 encounters per day game unless you are really efficient with them or use some cheese to get more spells. Bard can do pretty much everything between his spells, skills and class features.

Also, how optimized is this campaign going to be, because Leadership is ripe for abuse?

[BeserkerNike]

Warlock would be good if you just want to throw damage everywhere 24/7. Wizard, and even Sorcerer will probably run out of spells in an 18 encounters per day game unless you are really efficient with them or use some cheese to get more spells. Bard can do pretty much everything between his spells, skills and class features.

Also, how optimized is this campaign going to be, because Leadership is ripe for abuse?

Pretty Optimized
I was thinking of a Divine Cohort because we need a healer

[HalfQuart]

I think it would be helpful to find out if the 18 encounters thing is more or less what you should expect as normal, or at least not unusual, or if that was a one-off thing that's likely never going to happen again.

[ArcturusV]

Note Nike, that when people on this board ask about optimized, the threshold usually doesn't include a "healer" as a necessary resource. They will point you to dozens of cheap, effective ways to cover healing without ever needing a character who actually casts/prepares healing spells, for the most part.

When they talk about "pretty optimized" they are talking about your fighter doing something like keeping every enemy within 30 feet of him shaken, cowering, and knocked down. They're talking about your Barbarian doing 300 damage per round. They're usually talking about your Rogue being a faux wizard who sneaks around and uses a huge stash of scrolls/wands to obliterate enemies before they even know the rogue exists.

That said though... I also might suggest considering what you said about the campaign, NOT playing a caster. It's easy to do 18 or so encounters in a day. It requires discipline and finesse though. You can't be blowing a spell every round (Particularly the various spells that are usually suggested as they are level 3+ and at level 8 you're not exactly packing a ton of those). You need to not only know and realize how to use low level spells effectively, (And hopefully a good DM), but also the restraint to not say "Okay... it's my turn... I cast a spell!" automatically. You have to play back like you did at level 1, where you had maybe 2-3 spells and your cantrips, and somehow had to make them last though 3-5 fights.

It's very doable. With the right mindset. But since you're new to playing a caster there's the tendency to want to throw a spell every time your turn comes up, and just a general lack of experience that makes it hard.

A better option than Wizard might be to go druid. Even if you cannot quite manage your spell resources to deal with 18 encounters a day? At the end of the day you're still a bear, riding a bear, bear clawing people to the face. You got enough non-spell tricks to still be doing something fun.

Note though that playing a Druid is very "Front Loaded" even compared to normal spell casters. When you make a druid not only are you going to have to comb through every book to make some sort of go to reference for spells you want to memorize (Or potentially memorize based on the expected day), but do the same for every Monster Manual and splat book looking for animal forms to Wildshape into, and Animal Companions you might want to take along.

[Xerlith]

If you're okay with the ToB, play Crusader/Bard. Or Crusader/Cleric/RKV. White raven/Devoted Spirit focus.

Unlimited resources, including healing in both cases, your party's gonna love you for your White Raven boosts and you're gonna heavily improve their performance without actually overshadowing them completely.
The party consists of tier 4-5 characters, so making a tier 1-2 would actually completely destroy the fun for them.

[Slipperychicken]

That said though... I also might suggest considering what you said about the campaign, NOT playing a caster. It's easy to do 18 or so encounters in a day. It requires discipline and finesse though. You can't be blowing a spell every round (Particularly the various spells that are usually suggested as they are level 3+ and at level 8 you're not exactly packing a ton of those). You need to not only know and realize how to use low level spells effectively, (And hopefully a good DM), but also the restraint to not say "Okay... it's my turn... I cast a spell!" automatically. You have to play back like you did at level 1, where you had maybe 2-3 spells and your cantrips, and somehow had to make them last though 3-5 fights.


You want something to do on those off-rounds? Grab a reserve feat, like Fiery Burst or Invisible Needle. Who says you need to be a Warlock to blast all day?

[DMVerdandi]

Here is what you do.

Choose Erudite.
Pick the spell to power ACF.
Pick up persistent power.
Hire various classes for spells. Learn the ones you want and need. You don't necessarily need to know all of them, just the ones that will make you into a god.

If you want to skip all that, psychic reformation works, but that is minor cheese. You could talk with your DM and say that paying for the XP cost is enough, but it is INSANELY cheaper compared to doing it the regular way.

Anywho, the ability to cast a large amount of psion powers, and arcane spells as powers gives you variety like no-one's business.

[Lord Haart]

1000 starting gold at level 8? That's odd. And that kinda hurts the proposed ToB classes, but also hurts vancian spellcasters (if to a lesser degree).

Hovewer, i'm surprised that Warlock has been mentioned while Dragonfire Adept (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1101061) from Dragon Magic has been not. With DFA, you too get your spammable-all-day-no-limitations invocations, flight and other necessary nifties in-class, only instead of being a quasi-archer with sucky damage or a melee guy with far better damage (or with the same sucky damage but great debuffing) but limited HP (which become a resource), your spammable attack is an AOE battlefield control (entangle, slow, all the nifties) thing that effectively doesn't age for all twenty levels — and if the game is really high-op, you can cheese out metabreath feats for MASSIVE damage. Take a look.

[Yogibear41]

Warlock3/Wizard3/Eldritch Theurge 2

Slightly lower damage and less spells than a wizard/warlock of the same level but you can basically rely on eldritch blast for unlimited ammo and pick utility wizard spells to handle the rest? Also taking 10 on UMD and a small amount of damage reduction is always nice.

[Fouredged Sword]

A reserve feat would get you better for less than burning levels on a warlock dip or thurge class.

[BeserkerNike]

Here is what you do.

Choose Erudite.
Pick the spell to power ACF.
Pick up persistent power.
Hire various classes for spells. Learn the ones you want and need. You don't necessarily need to know all of them, just the ones that will make you into a god.

If you want to skip all that, psychic reformation works, but that is minor cheese. You could talk with your DM and say that paying for the XP cost is enough, but it is INSANELY cheaper compared to doing it the regular way.

Anywho, the ability to cast a large amount of psion powers, and arcane spells as powers gives you variety like no-one's business.
I don't understand the ,,Hire various classes for spells" part does that mean all casters like Divine and Arcane or Psions only?

[Slipperychicken]

I don't understand the ,,Hire various classes for spells" part does that mean all casters like Divine and Arcane or Psions only?

As far as I know, StP Erudites can learn both spells and powers, so it makes sense to grab both.

However, expect a savvy DM to shoot down the StP Erudite. If you play it competently (which is possible since you have access to online resources like various handbooks and LogicNinja's Guide), that class/ACF combo is almost universally considered broken, and will absolutely overshadow your party, which is all T4/T5 classes.

[Rubik]

Remember that a bard has limited Bardic Music uses per day.But bardic music doesn't turn off just because the battle is over. There's a feat that allows you to keep bardic music going even though nobody nearby can hear it. Choose Perform: Oratory and you won't even need an instrument; instead, just keep the bardic music going all day every day, and only spend the extra bardic music uses when you absolutely need to do so.

[edit] Also, take that draconic aura feat that grants your group fast healing up to half hp, and nab yourself a few wands of Cure Light Wounds or Lesser Vigor. A level in marshal to add your Cha to everyone's Dex checks (including initiative) would be useful as well.

[double-edit] What about dragonfire adept? Breath weapon all day long, and all you need is Con for your stats. Nab Entangling Breath and a few breath weapon feats, and...

[triple-edit] Looks like L.Haart got to the DFA ahead of me. Oh well.

[Kristofthegreat]

I haven't yet gone to a lot of the places that the thread so far is talking about, but I really enjoyed playing a straight up Artificer.

If you do an Elf Artificer, you are no proficient with Longbow and Longsword, and they're attack is, in general, OK. Also, since they "fake" it, they can serve both the healer role and the blaster role, while still allowing you to do some buffing.

You can also then make wands and things, and with only a 20 UMD check needed to use a wand, it makes that pretty effective pretty fast.

[Captnq]

Level Classes BAB CL fort ref will Feats
1 Mystic Ranger:1 1 1 2 2 0 Track (Trap Expert), Wild Empath
2 Mystic Ranger:2 2 2 3 3 0 FE (Arcane)
3 Mystic Ranger:3 3 3 3 3 1 Endurance
4 Mystic Ranger:4 4 4 4 4 1 Sword of the arcane order
5 MysticTheurge:1 4 6 4 4 3
6 MysticTheurge:2 5 8 4 4 4
7 MysticTheurge:3 5 10 5 5 4

For 8th level take wizard 1 and that Alternative class feature from dragon mag that lets you give up your familiar so you can keep your spellbook in your head.

Now, this all depends on your DM accepting that a Mystic Ranger is both a divine and an arcane spellcaster, so the +1 to divine and +1 Arcane of a mystic theurge both add to the spell caster level of the mystic theurge. You'll max out being able to cast 5th level spells at 7th.

Or you could try this...

Mystic Ranger: 1-4 (MRCL:4)
Wizard: 1 (WCL: 5)
Mystic Theurge: 1 (MR/W:6/2[7])
Mystic Theurge: 2 (MR/W:7/2[9])
Mystic Theurge: 3 (MR/W:9/2[11])
Bard: 1
Mystic Theurge: 4 (MR/W/Bard:10/2[12]/2)
Sublime Chord: 1
Ultimate Magus: 1 (MR/W/B/SC:10/2[14]/2/1)
Ultimate Magus: 2 (MR/W/B/SC:10/3[16]/2/2)
Ultimate Magus: 3 (MR/W/B/SC:10/4[18]/2/3)
Ultimate Magus: 4 (MR/W/B/SC:10/4[20]/2/4)
Ultimate Magus: 5 (MR/W/B/SC:10/5[22]/2/5)
Ultimate Magus: 6 (MR/W/B/SC:10/6[24]/2/6)
Ultimate Magus: 7 (MR/W/B/SC:10/6[26]/2/7)

So you wind up a Mystic Ranger at caster level 10. a wizard at 6th, but all your wizard spells are cast at 26th Caster Level, Bard 2, Sublime Chord 7. Seriously, that's an F-ton of spells, dude.

it's because sword of the arcane order, sublime chord, and Ultimate magus interact to add Caster Levels to your "Wizard" multiple times.

[DMVerdandi]

I don't understand the ,,Hire various classes for spells" part does that mean all casters like Divine and Arcane or Psions only?
Arcane spellcasters and psions.

They can cast all arcane spells up to 8.


As far as I know, StP Erudites can learn both spells and powers, so it makes sense to grab both.

However, expect a savvy DM to shoot down the StP Erudite. If you play it competently (which is possible since you have access to online resources like various handbooks and LogicNinja's Guide), that class/ACF combo is almost universally considered broken, and will absolutely overshadow your party, which is all T4/T5 classes.

It would be the un-savvy dm that shoots it down due to simple ignorance towards the class.
As the standard RAI, the erudite gets 11 Unique Psionic Powers usable per day. That is, 11 seperate spells/powers he can cast.
Now he is supremely flexible in picking which ones he can cast, and until they are cast, he can cast any he knows, but it only totals out to 11.

So, it comes down to being able to solve 11 problems per day. Half of those being devoted to combat, that is 5 weird instances. That isn't bad, but it isn't as crazy as some people make it out to be. Also being reliant on spell points doesn't help.

Sure you can cheese one out, but that isn't to say everyone plays like munchkin. Played straight, the STP erudite is strong, but modest. Only through elicit use does it ridiculous.

I find it to be more similar to what I truly think a spellcaster should be like anyway. forget books and Arcane spell failure. Arbitrary ,fun-killing limits.




I suggest not trying to batman/god so hard, and using it as a blaster, or summoner. Pick a role and stick to it. Have favorite spells that are used rather than being so concerned with efficient use that you forget to add some flavor. Have a primary field of study and use those unique powers to represent what type of spells you like, and optimize off of a theme.

Suddenly, the apparent overpoweredness evaporates.

[BeserkerNike]

Arcane spellcasters and psions.

They can cast all arcane spells up to 8.



It would be the un-savvy dm that shoots it down due to simple ignorance towards the class.
As the standard RAI, the erudite gets 11 Unique Psionic Powers usable per day. That is, 11 seperate spells/powers he can cast.
Now he is supremely flexible in picking which ones he can cast, and until they are cast, he can cast any he knows, but it only totals out to 11.

So, it comes down to being able to solve 11 problems per day. Half of those being devoted to combat, that is 5 weird instances. That isn't bad, but it isn't as crazy as some people make it out to be. Also being reliant on spell points doesn't help.

Sure you can cheese one out, but that isn't to say everyone plays like munchkin. Played straight, the STP erudite is strong, but modest. Only through elicit use does it ridiculous.

I find it to be more similar to what I truly think a spellcaster should be like anyway. forget books and Arcane spell failure. Arbitrary ,fun-killing limits.




I suggest not trying to batman/god so hard, and using it as a blaster, or summoner. Pick a role and stick to it. Have favorite spells that are used rather than being so concerned with efficient use that you forget to add some flavor. Have a primary field of study and use those unique powers to represent what type of spells you like, and optimize off of a theme.

Suddenly, the apparent overpoweredness evaporates.
I was thinking for my character to mainly focus on
Phantasmal spells,Force Spells,Crowd Control and Buffs thats about it

(Edit) Whats does ACF stand for =.=

[Firebug]

ACF = Alternative Class Features. There are a few around: Unearthed Arcana, Players Handbook 2, various completes have a few at the beginnings of the books.

A few questions: What level do you expect to reach? Are you allowed to use Fractional base attack?

I am currently a fan ofGray Elf Trickster Spellthief 1/ Elf Generalist Wizard 3/ Wilderness Rogue 1/ Unseen Seer 2/ Dragonslayer 1/ Spellsword 1/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Unseen Seer 6(more) . For a large amount of skill points and list, 16 Base attack (for the 4th iterative attack, assuming Fractional Base Attack), 9th level spells at 24th caster level (28th for arcane divination spells). You can steal up to 9th level spells from another caster, and hold . Proficiency with all Martial Weapons, Shields and Armor ignoring 10% arcane spell failure (+1 Githcraft Mithril Fullplate of Twilight is ~15k gold for 10% arcane spell failure). Shield spell gives an additional +5 AC and is freely quickened and extended (along with all other abjurations 3rd level and lower). Permanent Nondetection (ie, opponents have to beat a caster level check DC 39 to magically tell if you are lying, or scry on you, or detect your alignment, or even if your gear glows magical). 5d6 Sneak Attack (+ another 9d6 from a persisted Hunter's Eye, + another 8d6 melee sneak attack if you wanted to Polymorph any Object yourself into a Kelvezu Demon(plus at-will con poison, 15 natural armor, look human-ish)). Also immune to fear.

You can wear armor to look like a 'fighter' and then blast the bejeezus out of something with sneak attack if you want. Cold Orb from Tome and Blood (not to be confused with Orb of Cold, they are different spells) allows you to throw a number of orbs in the same action as your caster level (max 15) dealing 1d6 damage each, and since they are all ranged touch attacks and you can throw them at the same target, you can do 1d6 + 14d6 x 15 damage. Granted you need to do this as a full-round action to get sneak attack on each. Still popping someone in the face for an average of 750 with a single 4th level slot isn't a joke. Oh, and then each target is blinded unless they save. (Or 1 target has to save 15 times). Or just pick a reserve feat like Acid Splatter and do 23d6 damage at-will all day.
For level 8, the above would allow you to use any armor/shield/martial weapons (level 9 ignoring 10% spell failure), cast 3rd level spells (4th at 9, and some bard level 0s, separate list CHA based), have good skills (3 levels with 6+int, 1 with 4+int, 4 with 2+int), 3d6 sneak attack (with an additional +4d6 for 1 round for each level 2 spell slot allocated). 5 BA (with factional, level 9 gets you +6/+1). With a couple flaws or retraining your elven bonus feats you can be at 13th caster level (master spellthief, practiced caster x2). Trapfinding. Immune to Fear. +1 damage to dragons. And Ok hp (5 levels of d4, 2 level of d6 (1 at 1st level), and 1 level of d10).

If you really wanted 4th level spells at 8, I'd suggest picking up the 4th level of Wizard by dropping the level of Rogue, and switching Trickster Spellthief back to regular Spellthief (you need hide as a class skill). You will lose getting to 16 base attack at 20 unless you drop some of the Unseen Seer though.

[XmonkTad]

With the huge number of encounters per day, and overall lack of money, I'm going to suggest my favorite class: Incarnate. You essentially make your own magic items out of soul -stuff and can use most of them all day every day.
Generally considered a T3 class.

[HalfQuart]

Now, this all depends on your DM accepting that a Mystic Ranger is both a divine and an arcane spellcaster, so the +1 to divine and +1 Arcane of a mystic theurge both add to the spell caster level of the mystic theurge. You'll max out being able to cast 5th level spells at 7th.
Yeah, good luck with that. You're probably more likely to just get ALL Dragon Magazine content banned from the table, if you try that, rather than getting just a simple "no."

[Roguenewb]

With the huge number of encounters per day, and overall lack of money, I'm going to suggest my favorite class: Incarnate. You essentially make your own magic items out of soul -stuff and can use most of them all day every day.
Generally considered a T3 class.

Not a bad recommendation. Totemist is sweet too. Primarily a damage dealer, but Barbarian 2/Totemist 6, taking the Barbarian ACFs that grant improved grab and improved trip, will make you incredibly flexible at dealing with dudes. Less good outside of combat.

[Callin]

Just an idea that I know garners alot of flack from most people here. But I like it.

The Swordsage Variant on page 20. Change out maneuvers for Arcane Spells. Dont matter the spell list just as long as they are Arcane. Haste at lvl 1, Bard Healing Spells, Buffs, Debuffs, ect ect ect. All at will, and with the Adaptive Style feat you are golden to never run out of the right spell chosen for the right time.

That whole "In general...-" line is just a guideline and not a set list of schools for you to pick from.

Daily Buff spells, then take a round and switch it out to a general exploration set up. Combat starts, take a round to set up what you need for that encounter. Oh I ran out, gimmie a sec, Ok there I got what I want back.

You could also take some regular Maneuvers... if you wanted. The Stances are a real good thing to have.

[Renen]

Probably is not a good idea to tell a player that doesnt know what AFC or Binder is, how to make himself a god.

He is unlikely to play such a build in a way that would not destroy the campaign.

[Xerlith]

If you want to be an over-the-top wizard, go for:

Wizard5/Ultimate Magus 3/Incantatrix10/Ultimate Magus2

1 Iron Will (if you can pick it up via Otyugh Hole for 3k GP, do it)
3 Extend Spell
Wizard 5: ACF: Spontaneous Divination
6 Invisible Spell
9 Empower Spell
12 Quicken Spell

All the other feats are free. At 9th level you cast as 11th lvl wizard (meaning 6th level spells) with a caster level of 12.

It's power lies in having a spell level more than a caster of your level would and being able to apply metamagic with more ease. How powerful it will seem depends on the player.

Invisible spell is for summoning creatures. Which are invisible. As in invisible all the time, even after attacking.

[Captnq]

Yeah, good luck with that. You're probably more likely to just get ALL Dragon Magazine content banned from the table, if you try that, rather than getting just a simple "no."

Okay. You tell me which interpertation is right, because both suck:

SWORD OF THE ARCANE ORDER [General]
- Champions of Valor (3.5)
Description: Members of your military order have a special connection with arcane magic.
Prerequisites: Paladin 4th of Azuth or Mystra, or ranger 4th of Mystra; member of the Knights of the Mystic Fire , the Order of the Shooting Star, or the Swords of the High One.
Benefit: You can use your paladin and ranger spell slots to prepare wizard spells. You must have a minimum Intelligence score of 10 + the spell’s level to prepare it, and the save DC of the spell is equal to 10 + your Int modifier (as if you were a wizard). These wizard spells can be taken either from your spellbook (if you have one) or from another character’s spellbook (though in the latter case you must decipher the writing in the book and succeed on a Spellcraft check to prepare the spell, just as a wizard using a borrowed spellbook; see Wizard Spells and Borrowed Spellbooks, page 178 of the Player’s Handbook, for details). If you also have levels in wizard, your wizard caster level is treated as the sum of your wizard, paladin, and ranger class levels.
Special: Azuth has a paladin order called the Swords of the High One, Mystra has a paladin order called the Knights of the Mystic Fire and a closely allied group of rangers called the Order of the Shooting Star. Members of all three of these groups can select this feat as long as they are at least 4th level in their respective order’s primary class.

Also important is the part from the feat summary table in Champions of Valor. “Use paladin or ranger spell slots to prepare wizard spells that you know; add paladin and ranger class levels to your wizard level to determine your wizard caster level.” (Emphasis is the editor’s)

Problem #1

Does This Feat Give You Access To Wizard Spells?
Now, at first glance, the answer would seem obvious. If you can memorize wizard spells, you clearly have access to the spell list. This would be the RAW reading of the feat. It’s poorly worded, but clearly, you can read the spells from other spellbooks, so you must be able to cast them, ergo, you have access to the wizard spell list.
That’s why I included the section from the feat summary table. The feat summary has additional words the feat itself does not, “…wizard spells that you know.” Now this would imply that the intension of the feat was to allow you to use the wizard spell list that you get from a level of wizard and memorize those spells in your ranger spell slots.
However, information under the feat summary table is not valid. WotC has specifically stated that only the information written under a specific feat pertains to that feat. The information from the table is informative, but circumstantial and cannot be used in game. So we have the problem of which way to read it. Does it give a ranger access to the wizard spell list, or must he take at least one level of wizard to have access to the spells so he can have access to the list, and thus memorize wizard spells in his ranger spell slots.
If it is the first way (RAW), then a level of wizard is not needed. You can learn any wizard spell, use magic items that require access to the wizard spell list, and all the other perks that go with it. If it is the second way (RAI), then you need to buy at least one level of wizard to use this feat, or it is worthless. However, once you have that level, you do not need to buy any more levels.
For example, if you were a mystic ranger 4th/wizard 1st, then you can memorize second level wizard spells in your 2nd level mystic ranger spell slots, without being a 3rd level wizard. Once you have the first level of wizard you “know” all spells on the list. You just need to get a copy in a spellbook. Once you have a copy, you can memorize it.
Which one is correct? That is up to your DM to choose. It could go either way, but the editor has a leaning towards the second (RAI) interpretation. The reason will be evident in the answer to the next question.


Problem #2

Are Wizards Spells Cast From Ranger Slots Arcane Or Divine?
Rangers are divine spellcasters. Wizards are arcane spellcasters. If you have a wizard spell in an ranger spell slot, which one it is? I believe the answer depends on if you think the ranger needs to take a level of wizard to have access to wizard spells.
If you believe the ranger does not need to take a level of wizard, then effectively you are giving the mystic ranger access to the wizard spell list. This means that despite the fact that the spell requires you to have intelligence to cast the spell, you are still just casting the spell using ranger spell slots. Ergo, the spell has to be divine.
If you believe that the ranger has to take a level of wizard, then effectively the ranger is loaning spell slots to the wizard class. If you are giving spell slots to the wizard class, then the spells remain arcane. As evidence that this is the intent of the feat is that it specifically states that all wizard spells are cast off of intelligence and not off of wisdom.
So what’s the difference? It’s all just semantics, right? Well, the difference in divine verses arcane affects how you build your character. It determines if you need to spend a level on wizard or not. When you qualify for certain PrCs. Weird spell combinations. Frankly, being able to convert wizard spells into divine spells opens up a whole world of opportunity, the least of which is, no arcane spell failure. So which one is it? Again, depends on how you answer the first question.



So you can see, either way sucks for the DM. One way, I'm a divine and Arcane spellcaster. Mystic Theurge allows me to add both +1 CL to Mystic Ranger. The other way, any wizard spell I learn becomes Divine, meaning that I'm now an Arcanist's best friend and say GOODBYE to arcane spell failure.

Frankly, Not sure which is worse. Wizards without ASF or Doubling up on CL. At least the doubling up maxes out at 5th level spells. At best a PC can gain 3 extra CLs, so the sweet spot is 7th or 8th level depending. After that, you lose your edge, becoming on par with a normal wizard by 10th, at least casting wise.

[Firebug]

Wizard 5: ACF: Spontaneous Divination to meet the prerequisites for Ultimate Magus is a nifty trick.

Throw in some Ur-priest and Mystic Theurge and get some easy dual 9ths. Even taking a level of Monk to make the prerequisites for Ur-priest easier you still have 2 full levels free after you get both sets of 9th level spells (assuming you have a 28 wisdom by level 18)

[BeserkerNike]

Well i have decided what i will play
It will be Wizard 5/Ultimate Magus 3/Ur-Priest 5/Mythic Theurge 5/Ultimate Magus 2

Thank you everybody

p.s. I added 4 templates with 0 LA to my char DM gave me the ok for it

STR 12
DEX 17
CON 20
INT 26
WIS 26
CHA 20

[Xerlith]

It's... Not bad. Although I'd go from Ur-Priest2 into the Theurge to get double nines.

[Firebug]

You don't qualify for Ur-priest with Wizard 5/Ultimate Magus 3. You need +3/+3 base fort/will (as in without con/wis bonuses). Which is why I suggested the monk dip. And with a level of Monk you get to add your Wisdom (which you already have pretty high) to your AC. I would suggest something more like Wizard 5/ Ultimate Magus 3/ Monk 1/ Ur-Priest 2/ Mystic Theurge 7/ Any other 2 (like contemplative, abjurant champion, basically anything with features you like).

I also agree that the extra 3 levels in Ur-priest are mostly worthless. You get spell resist 15 to divine spells only... that's pretty much nothing at the level you get it (like a full divine caster needs a 2 for spell penetration rolls).

[BeserkerNike]

You don't qualify for Ur-priest with Wizard 5/Ultimate Magus 3. You need +3/+3 base fort/will (as in without con/wis bonuses). Which is why I suggested the monk dip. And with a level of Monk you get to add your Wisdom (which you already have pretty high) to your AC. I would suggest something more like Wizard 5/ Ultimate Magus 3/ Monk 1/ Ur-Priest 2/ Mystic Theurge 7/ Any other 2 (like contemplative, abjurant champion, basically anything with features you like).

I also agree that the extra 3 levels in Ur-priest are mostly worthless. You get spell resist 15 to divine spells only... that's pretty much nothing at the level you get it (like a full divine caster needs a 2 for spell penetration rolls).

I most probably won't take levels in Monk they will be spend on Paladin Levels Cha to Saves is really good
and if i take this Idiosyncratic Style i can chose an ability score and then all bonuses like spells per day/lay on hands shift to that mental ability score

[Firebug]

+5 to all your saves is really good, but it will require you to take 2 levels of Paladin to get it. And there is the little bit about (most) Paladins requiring you to be Lawful Good, and Ur-Priest is Any Evil only. +8 to your AC (including touch and flatfooted) is also really good. And unless you delayed the second level of paladin until 19-20 you will be delaying your 9th level spells until 19.

My google-fu tells me that Idiosyncratic Style is homebrew. And only applies to a single class, so you would have to choose Paladin to get your wis/int as a bonus to saves from divine grace.

[BeserkerNike]

+5 to all your saves is really good, but it will require you to take 2 levels of Paladin to get it. And there is the little bit about (most) Paladins requiring you to be Lawful Good, and Ur-Priest is Any Evil only. +8 to your AC (including touch and flatfooted) is also really good. And unless you delayed the second level of paladin until 19-20 you will be delaying your 9th level spells until 19.

My google-fu tells me that Idiosyncratic Style is homebrew. And only applies to a single class, so you would have to choose Paladin to get your wis/int as a bonus to saves from divine grace.

There is a way to add my Int/Wis to my saves just have to find it
With all those books allowed i will find a class that has an ability same like the paladin

[Firebug]

Start with this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732).

Only 'easy' ways either replace stats, or is limited in some other way. Or is a bit hard to get to. Do you really need it though? You can already persist spells that increase your saves, and your Will is already sky-high. Reflex is going to be your lowest and is generally just to reduce damage taken from spells/abilities so if you have other ways of soaking damage (stoneskin, protection/resist from x, false life, cure spells, etc) its not as needed. Though if you are looking at 18 encounter days, it is probably still useful.

For example in the MM1, a Balor (CR 20) has Dominate Monster for a Will save DC of 27. Wiz5/UM2/Mnk1/Ur2/MT8/Abjurant Champion 1 currently has a Will of 30 with your stats. Without a +5 cloak of resistance for 25,000 gp. Its lowest is Reflex at +9. So you would do well to perhaps shore up the weakest save as opposed to buffing all of them.

[BeserkerNike]

Start with this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732).

Only 'easy' ways either replace stats, or is limited in some other way. Or is a bit hard to get to. Do you really need it though? You can already persist spells that increase your saves, and your Will is already sky-high. Reflex is going to be your lowest and is generally just to reduce damage taken from spells/abilities so if you have other ways of soaking damage (stoneskin, protection/resist from x, false life, cure spells, etc) its not as needed. Though if you are looking at 18 encounter days, it is probably still useful.

For example in the MM1, a Balor (CR 20) has Dominate Monster for a Will save DC of 27. Wiz5/UM2/Mnk1/Ur2/MT8/Abjurant Champion 1 currently has a Will of 30 with your stats. Without a +5 cloak of resistance for 25,000 gp. Its lowest is Reflex at +9. So you would do well to perhaps shore up the weakest save as opposed to buffing all of them.

Serenity

Your wisdom, inner calm, and sagacity fuels your class abilities rather than your force of personality or will.
Prerequisite
Divine Grace,
Benefit
Use your Wisdom bonus in place of your Charisma bonus for purposes of divine grace, lay on hands, smite evil, and turn undead.

This is how my character will be leveled
1-Wizard
2-Wizard
3-Wizard
4-Wizard
5-Wizard
6-Ultimate Magus
7-Ultimate Magus
8-Ultimate Magus
9-Monk
10-Paladin
11-Paladin
12-Ur-Priest
13-Ur-Priest
and the rest Theurge