PDA

View Full Version : how would you make the tarrasque a challenge?



blelliot
2013-09-15, 09:35 AM
Its all in the title. How would you do it? I've got a thought, but I would like to hear what everyone else do?

ericp65
2013-09-15, 09:43 AM
You don't find the Terrasque a challenge already?

blelliot
2013-09-15, 09:45 AM
You don't find the Terrasque a challenge already?

Well I see so mmany people naysaying the beastie, I just want to see what they would do to change him. More for fun than anything.

Waker
2013-09-15, 09:47 AM
-Immune to ability drain and damage.
-Attacks are considered magic and force effect.
-Does not need to breathe.
-Either give it a flight speed or if you are feeling silly, a subjective gravity ability that lets it pull others to it.
-Breath/Ray attack(s) or some other form of ranged attack.
-True Seeing.
-Maybe a little bit smarter.

Those are just a quick suggestions. The big weaknesses of the Big T is the susceptibility to certain attacks against stats, incorporeal and/or flying creatures, people staying at range, and the fact that it's dumber than a box of rocks.

EyethatBinds
2013-09-15, 09:49 AM
Give it Improved Toughness and 11 new feats. Also, make it use it's Int of 3 better. Monkeys can figure out how to throw poo, the Tarrasque should be able to throw buildings.

Altair_the_Vexed
2013-09-15, 09:50 AM
Use in an E6 game.

PlusSixPelican
2013-09-15, 09:53 AM
Making it sapient, and giving it a breath weapon (subdual by way of being water).

The sapience will let it run strategy (or at least justify the fact that the DM probably was anyway; ever play against animals or magical beasts that do things requiring more Int than they have?), as well as open up new ways to (possibly) end the fight.

Doing tons of things would just make it go above the concept of the Terrasque, instead of fixing a monster that can be killed by sufficiently savvy persons to patch up some of the "weak spots", why not make a new monster?

The subjective gravity monster sounds really awesome. Make it some kind of water-and-gravity elemental that stuffs PCs into the twirling tides of it's body to drown them.

Piggy Knowles
2013-09-15, 09:54 AM
Change the "win" condition. Set up the fight so that a victory can't be accomplished by draining its Wis/Cha from afar, or sniping it with ranged or incorporeal attacks. Perhaps you've got to get something out of its jaws in a certain number of rounds, or you've got to fight it in a series of large caves inside a dead magic zone.

Alternatively....

Have a ghost with some casting or manifesting possess the tarrasque. Bam! Instantly deadly. If the tarrasque's body was being powered by the mind of even a mid-level psion, things would suddenly get a lot more real...

Eldariel
2013-09-15, 09:56 AM
All he needs is some kind of momentary massive AOE disjunction/AMF abilities, ranged attack (spines work fine á la Lavos), a bunch of immunities he's missing for no good reason and yeah, honestly just giving him Abomination Traits covers most of the stuff he should have (and it's honestly something he should've had to start with) aside from the Natural Attack stuff, ranged attack and anti-magic/flight abilities. And bloody hell, he needs to be able to destroy force-effects. And what's up with his saves? He really needs something like Steadfast Determination to compensate for his Will.

LOTRfan
2013-09-15, 09:58 AM
I modified the Tarrasque to be a creature called the Daikaiju in a campaign.

-Spine ability directly taken from the Pathfinder version.
-Converted the Earthbound Aura from 4e to 3.5e.
-Immunity to ability damage/drain and polymorphing.
-Ability to break right through walls of force and other magical barriers, assuming it passes a(n arbitrary, by its standards) Strength check.
-Increased it to Colossal+. Only, I don't use Colossal+. I use a new size category called Titanic, where the creature is just so large it no longer takes an armor class or attack penalty due to size because stabbing something the size of a Chrysler building may be easy, but that doesn't mean its going to get hurt.
-All natural weapons are affected by Augmented Critical.
-88 HD.
-Oh, and every 1d4 rounds it can release a 60 ft. cone of 30d12 Force damage, literally tearing anything within range apart.

It was meant to be more of a natural disaster than an adversary, as the general idea of the setting is that eight giant monsters appeared out of nowhere one day and ravaged the world. Now people go about their daily lives while also trying to avoid hulking monsters that could wipe out entire cities in a couple of hours. And yes, I was inspired by Pacific Rim. :smalltongue:

Shining Wrath
2013-09-15, 03:21 PM
Flight plus immunity to ability drain effects.

PurpleSocks
2013-09-15, 03:49 PM
Make it tamed/dominated by the BBEG who uses it as a mount and if that isn't enough. Give the BBEG leadership, and have his cohort & followers ride it too.

Emperor Tippy
2013-09-15, 03:50 PM
Take a level 21 Psion and have it True Mind Switch with Big T. Level 21 lets it grab Permanent Emanation: Selective Anti-magic Field (set to its self).

No one else can use magic within 10 feet of Big T, T has psionics, and T has a very capable brain.

TuggyNE
2013-09-15, 05:38 PM
I (and others) spent some time applying templates to it, and here is the result.

eggynack
2013-09-15, 08:05 PM
The way that I'm preferential to is giving him an artificer friend. Basically, this evil artificer came upon the tarrasque, and he defeated him trivially. Then, he waited for a bit for the tarrasque to come to, and defeated him in a completely different way. That happened a couple more times. The tarrasque stopped attacking at this point, because he arbitrarily recognized that his abilities were crap, and the artificer used some method to grant the tarrasque intelligence. It could be an item, or maybe an altered version of awaken. I don't care, because it's the past's problem to resolve.

Anyways, the artificer said unto the tarrasque, "You can see now how pitiful you were, and how pitiful you are still. You and I both know that I can defeat you, even in your newly intelligent state. We seek the same things, destruction and power, so let us voyage onward together. I can give you power you've never even dreamt of." And he did. He gave the tarrasque a flying item, and everything else the tarrasque would need to not suck, and most importantly, he gave him a saddle. Now, the artificer rides atop the tarrasque, equal partners in the terror they bring to the world.

Prime32
2013-09-15, 08:22 PM
All he needs is some kind of momentary massive AOE disjunction/AMF abilities, ranged attack (spines work fine á la Lavos), a bunch of immunities he's missing for no good reason and yeah, honestly just giving him Abomination Traits covers most of the stuff he should have (and it's honestly something he should've had to start with) aside from the Natural Attack stuff, ranged attack and anti-magic/flight abilities. And bloody hell, he needs to be able to destroy force-effects. And what's up with his saves? He really needs something like Steadfast Determination to compensate for his Will.Make the tarrasque an eater of magic; wherever it goes it consumes the Weave (or the setting equivalent), leaving a dead magic zone in its path (and around its body). It exists simultaneously in the Material and Ethereal planes, and possibly the Plane of Shadow as well. It has a roar that inflicts fear and sonic damage in a large cone, and also functions as a rod of cancellation. It's surrounded by hurricane-level winds (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/weather.htm#hurricane), and doesn't need to breathe.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2013-09-15, 08:29 PM
Give it the Half-Fiend Template (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/halfFiend.htm) and Divine Rank 0 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineRanksAndPowers.htm), switch its feats around.

Divine Rank 0 gives it a land speed of 140 ft., plus a ton of mostly redundant immunities but it happens to include immunity to ability drain. Due to its new move speed, you can replace its Rush ability with Pounce, or scale it up: 150 is 20 x 7.5, so make it 140 x 7.5 or 1050.

Half-Fiend gives it a fly speed, its natural weapons will count as magic and can hit incorporeal opponents, it gets eight base skill points per HD (and possibly more class skills (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060630x&page=1)), and spell-like abilities at caster level 48, among other things.

I'd make its feats include Magic in the Blood (PGtF, all 1/day racial spell-like abilities become 3/day) and Quicken Spell-Like Ability for at least Destruction and Horrid Wilting. Its SR goes up to 35 via Half-Fiend, and I'd give it Improved Spell Resistance (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#improvedSpellResistance) at least three times so the Wish to permanently end it will often just bounce off. As an Augmented Magical Beast it should still be able to take Rapidstrike and Improved Rapidstrike to get iterative attacks with its claws and horns, but I'd only do this if you replace Rush with Pounce.

For its skills, it can have six skills at 51 ranks thanks to Half-Fiend. Those would most likely be Spot, Listen, Hide, Move Silently, Search, and Survival. It gets Darkness as a spell-like ability or it can fly in the clouds for concealment. With those skills it's most likely to be the one to initiate combat rather than anyone hunting it.

Between Destruction and Horrid Wilting for handling troublesome opponents (miss chance, etc.), and its caster level 48 Blasphemy which is guaranteed to kill nonevil creatures with 38 or fewer HD, it's definitely a serious threat. Any party that wants to stand a chance at killing it will have to do some research first to learn its abilities, and use Greater Spell Immunity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/spellImmunityGreater.htm) on anyone who doesn't want to get killed automatically.

Chronos
2013-09-15, 09:02 PM
I once had a thread (wow, was it really five years ago?) about improving him just by changing his feats (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87000). We came up with some pretty good ideas there.

Rubik
2013-09-15, 09:14 PM
Change its feats to maneuvers, stances, soulmelds, and binding feats. Boost its Int by 12 or so. Give it some really good skills, like Intimidate, Lucid Dreaming, and Iaijutsu Focus.

Now it's worthy of being an epic-level threat.

grarrrg
2013-09-15, 09:57 PM
-Spine ability directly taken from the Pathfinder version.

Start with the Pathfinder version (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/magical-beasts/spawn-of-rovagug/tarrasque).
They added a Ranged attack, tweaked the Immunities to be better, and gave it decent feats (surprisingly, they didn't even give it Pathfinder-Toughness).

Gazzien
2013-09-15, 10:04 PM
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218055

I would do that.

Milo v3
2013-09-16, 02:44 AM
How about this. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=280524&page=1) I'm just about to redo it as well with over a hundred templates :smalltongue:

CRtwenty
2013-09-16, 03:33 AM
http://img.4plebs.org/boards/tg/image/1369/33/1369335869628.png

Do this. :smallbiggrin:

Eldan
2013-09-16, 04:05 AM
The way that I'm preferential to is giving him an artificer friend. Basically, this evil artificer came upon the tarrasque, and he defeated him trivially. Then, he waited for a bit for the tarrasque to come to, and defeated him in a completely different way. That happened a couple more times. The tarrasque stopped attacking at this point, because he arbitrarily recognized that his abilities were crap, and the artificer used some method to grant the tarrasque intelligence. It could be an item, or maybe an altered version of awaken. I don't care, because it's the past's problem to resolve.

Anyways, the artificer said unto the tarrasque, "You can see now how pitiful you were, and how pitiful you are still. You and I both know that I can defeat you, even in your newly intelligent state. We seek the same things, destruction and power, so let us voyage onward together. I can give you power you've never even dreamt of." And he did. He gave the tarrasque a flying item, and everything else the tarrasque would need to not suck, and most importantly, he gave him a saddle. Now, the artificer rides atop the tarrasque, equal partners in the terror they bring to the world.

And thus was born the Mecharrasque.

Gemini476
2013-09-16, 04:15 AM
While the 4e Tarrasque is also rather weak (having been printed before they fixed the math in MM3,) you might as well take inspiration from it and give it an Anti Flying Field. Oh, and make it an Abomination. That'll fix a bunch of the more obvious weaknesses, although a Druid could still diplomance it.

But yeah, swap out the placeholder Toughness feats for something actually worthwhile.

Doorhandle
2013-09-16, 06:37 AM
Pathfinder version fixed some of the glaring weakness: but it still can't hit incorporeal. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/magical-beasts/spawn-of-rovagug/tarrasque)

Location could also help: a small, exitless room, where no space within is beyond the beast's considerable reach.

Alternatively give it some units to support it: maddened cultists making life difficult for those who oppose it, or perhaps a battle-howdah or one abnormally large, vile rider.

...And now I have this hilariously insane mental image of Treerazer riding the Tarresque into battle.

Eldariel
2013-09-16, 08:55 AM
Pathfinder version fixed some of the glaring weakness: but it still can't hit incorporeal. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/magical-beasts/spawn-of-rovagug/tarrasque)

Pathfinder Version is also so nerfed numbers-wise that a level 20 core Fighter has favorable odds in a 1v1. And it's supposedly CR 25.

jokeaccount
2013-09-16, 09:13 AM
Troll post: Give him caster levels

Morithias
2013-09-16, 09:14 AM
One time I had the tarrasque as a "weapon of the gods".

Basically if a certain place on the planet ever got too dark, too dystopian, or too corrupt, the tarrasque would be unleashed.

So a place like the Capitol in the Hunger games would find itself under attack.

The tarrasque started with 1 HD, and no special powers except one.

"Every time this creature is killed, it gains 1 HD, and immunity to whatever killed it."

Needless to say in the present timeline the tarrasque has been killed MANY times.

Furthermore it's a weapon of the gods, the gods CHOOSE when to deploy it.

Kill it? Oh yeah, big deal it'll be back in 10 minutes.

Of course it's immune to bascially every "trick" that is common. It's immune to mind control, it can fly, etc.

Zancloufer
2013-09-16, 10:28 AM
Simple changes can work quite well. Made a Dragon Tarrasque. Essentially uses Dragon HD instead of Magical Beast and gave it all the typical Tarrasque abilities, a 10+ in all mental stats (Over 20 for Cha) and let is use it's fast healing to heal off negative levels and ability damage. Oh, and gave it USEFUL FEATS. Instead of like 20 TOUGHNESS FEATS. I mean really, whats +40 HP on something with 800+ HP already?


Ah, here it is. Open the Spoiler at your own peril (Though it's only a 30HD one, instead of 40 like a Tarrasque normally is).

Draconian Tarrasque (30-HD)
Size/Type: Colossal Dragon (Augmented)
Hit Dice: 30d12+540 (900 HP)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 60 ft. (12 squares), 120 ft flight, Clumsy Maneuverability
Armor Class: 43 (-8 size, +6 Tumble, +20 natural. +15 Aura), 23 touch 45 flat-footed
Base Attack/Grapple: +30/+66
Attack: +65 Claw 2d8+24, +66 Bite 4d6+34, +65 Horn 4d6+34, Tail +65 4d6+24, Wing Buff +65 2d8+14, +65 Crush 4d8+34, +65 Tail Sweep 2d8+24
Full Attack: 4x +65 Claw 2d8+24, +66 Bite 4d6+34, 2x +65 Horn 4d6+34, Tail +65 4d6+24, 2x Wing Buff +65 2d8+14, +65 Crush 4d8+34, +65 Tail Sweep 2d8+24
Space/Reach: 50 ft./30 ft.
Special Attacks: Improved grab, Swallow Whole, Breath Weapon, Frightful Presence, Supreme Trample, Spell-Casting
Special Qualities: Dark vision, Mettle, Carapace, Fast Healing 45, DR 15/Epic, Immunity to; Ability Drain/Energy Drain/Poisons/Diseases/Sonic, SR 36, Supreme regeneration, Undying
Saves: Fort +34, Ref +19 Will +20
Abilities: Str 50, Dex 10, Con 40, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 20
Skills: Climb +54, Jump +54, Intimidate +54, Listen +35, Spot +35, Swim +54, Tumble +34
Feats: Epic Toughness, Epic Natural Weapon, Hover, Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Flyby Attack, Awesome Blow, Snatch, Great Cleave, Improved Critical (Bite), Overwhelming Critical (Bite), Devastating Critical (Bite), Weapon Focus (Bite), Improved Sunder.
Environment:
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 21
Treasure: Moderate
Alignment: Neutral
Advancement: —
Level Adjustment: —

A Massive reptilian creature standing at over 30 feet tall. The (Draconian Tarrasque) is coloured an off orange tinge and is covered by a massive scaled carapace. A massive tail with a spike protrudes from it's rear, and two massive wings sprout from it's back. On it's forehead lies a massive horn sharped to a fine point.

The Draconian Tarrasque is most likely the twisted experiment of a powerful wizard or psion. Combing the essence of the Tarrasque with a obscure breed of dragon has created a monstrous dragon-esquire monster.

Combat:
The Draconian Tarrasque is fairly intelligent and knows what it and it's enemies are capable of. It will target what ever it perceives to be the largest threat. If faced with a large number of ground based enemies incapable of fighting flying targets, the Tarrasque will always take flight, and use flyby attacks and it's breath weapons. When facing armies of weak individuals it will simply trample the army into dust.

The Draconian Tarrasque casts spells as a 15th level Sorcerer using Charisma as it's spell casting stat. Actually known spells vary between Draconian Tarrasques.

Natural Weapons (Ex)
The Draconian Tarrasque's natural weapons radiate magic. All it's natural attacks are considered to be Magical Epic Weapons for the case of overcoming damage reduction and are capable of hitting incorporeal or ethereal targets. It's horns are especially hard and is considered to be any material or alignment for the sake of overcoming DR, and ignores any hardness, concealment or miss chance a target might have.

Improved Grab (Ex)
If the Tarrasque successfully hits a target with one of it's Claws, it's bite, or tail attacks it can start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity.

Swallow Whole (Ex):
The Draconian Tarrasque can try to swallow a grabbed opponent of Huge or smaller size by making a successful grapple check. Once inside, the opponent takes 2d8+8 points of crushing damage plus 2d8+6 points of acid damage per round from the Tarrasque’s digestive juices. A swallowed creature can cut its way out by dealing 50 points of damage to the Tarrasque’s digestive tract (AC 30). Once the creature exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cut its own way out. The Tarrasque’s gullet can hold 2 Huge, 8 Large, 32 Medium, 128 Small, or 512 Tiny or smaller creatures.

Breath Weapon (Su)
The Draconian Tarrasque has two breath weapons, a sonic cone, and a sonic ball. The Cone has a 70ft length, and the ball has a range of 240ft and a radius of 20ft. Both attacks deal 20d4 sonic damage, DC 30 Reflex Save for half.

Frightful Presence (Ex)
The Sight of a Draconian Tarrasque instills fear at a mere glance. Any creature within 210ft of the Tarrasque that sees it must make a DC 34 will save. Those who fail the save who are under 4HD are frighten for 4d6 rounds, while those above 4th level are shaken for 4d6 rounds. Those who succeed the saving throw are immune to it's aura for the next 24 hours.

Supreme Trample (Ex)
The Draconian Tarrasque can make a special charge attack as a full round action. Covering ground equal to ten times it's base speed (Default 600ft) the Tarrasque carves a line of destruction 60ft wide and high. Any person, creature or structure caught within the path the Tarrasque makes an attack with all four claws and it's horn against with no penalty. Any person or creature struck acts as if they where hit by an awesome blow. If they succeed the reflex save they get knocked aside and are not hit again. If they fail the save they remain in the path and can be hit again 10ft down. Any structure within the path the Tarrasque ignore the hardness of and does full damage to regardless of non-magical damage reduction. Any object that the Tarrasque cannot destroy it can attempt to make a running jump over. If the object proved immovable, and cannot be jumped over the charge is halted irregardless of how far the Tarrasque has traveled. This attack does not provoke an attack of opportunity, and can only be used while the Tarrasque is on the ground.

Mettle (Ex)
The Draconian Tarrasque on a successful Fortitude or Will save suffers no partials effects.

Carapace (Ex)
The Draconian Tarrasque’s armour like carapace is exceptionally tough and highly reflective, deflecting all rays, lines, cones, projectiles and even magic missile spells. There is a 30% chance of reflecting any such effect back at the caster; otherwise, it is merely negated. Check for reflection before rolling to overcome the creature’s spell resistance.

Fast Healing (Ex)
The Draconian Tarrasque has fast healing 45. This is active even if the Tarrasque is dying, or otherwise incapacitated.

Supreme Regeneration (Ex)
The Tarrasque is of such a Constitution that it can heal dismemberment. If dismembered the Tarrasque can heal the lost limbs like the Regeneration spell. Any dismembered limb can be instantly reattached, or will regrown under it's own power in 1d6 minutes. If decapitated the Tarrasque's head if not reattached to it's body within 2d4 hours will merely begin growing a new one. The old body and limbs fades away as if by magic rendering it impossible to use for any means.

Undying (Ex)
A Draconian Tarrasque never stays dead. The Tarrasque can make re-roll a failed fortitude save versus any on going or instantaneous effect (even death effects) every 1d4 rounds after a failed save. This applies to any negative effect caused by a failed Fortitude save, even polymorph, petrification, and death. Every time the Tarrasque fails a save against an effect it gains a +2 untyped bonus to the next save (this stacks). In addition the Tarrasque doesn't die at -10 HP. Upon being reduced to -31 HP the Tarrasque is rendered unconscious but becomes immune to further HP damage. Upon regenerating to positive HP (usually within 1 round with Fast Healing 45) the Tarrasque can choose to wake up. If it doesn't it can make a passive bluff check at +34 to the check vs an opposed sense motive into fooling other that it is dead. If the Draconian Tarrasque is at negative HP a successful casting of Wish, Miracle or Reality Revision can prevent the Tarrasque from coming back from the dead under it's own power.

Psyren
2013-09-16, 10:29 AM
PF abilities + 3.5 hit points to start. Make its attacks ghost touch (or just magical), make it immune to ability drain and you're good to go.

Xuldarinar
2013-09-17, 02:19 AM
Pseudonatural Paragon Tarrasque

Psudonatural Template: Epic Level Handbook
Paragon Template: Same Book

Here, even some of the stats of such a thing, hope I did it right:

Colossal Outsider
Hit Dice: 48d10 + 1,794 (2,274 hp)
Initiative: +19
Speed: 120 ft (24 squares)
Armor Class: 76 (-8 size, +15 Dex, +12 insight, +12 luck, +35 natural armor), touch 41, flat-footed 61
Special Attacks: Augmented critical, constant Insight, frightful presence, improved grab, rotting constriction, rush, spell-like abilities, swallow whole
Special Qualities: Alternate form, carapace, damage reduction 15/epic, damage reduction 75/+16, fast healing 20, immunity to fire, poison, disease, energy drain, and ability damage, regeneration 40, resistance to acid 70, cold 10, and electricity 60 scent, spell resistance 67
Saves: Fort +61, Ref +51, Will +42
Abilities: Str 82, Dex 41, Con 60, Int 18, Wis 39, Cha 29
Challenger Rating: 42

QuickLyRaiNbow
2013-09-17, 09:33 AM
Yeah, but if you'll forgive my saying so, that's a dumb way to do it. Using ELH templates on a pre-epic creature for a pre-epic campaign is just silly. You might as well answer every question about "how do I improve my BBEG?" by saying "Epic Spellcasting and 85 levels of Sorcerer."

I'd go with intelligent usage of smaller templates like Phrenic and changing the win conditions. Kill it before it wrecks the city or steps on the mayor or whatever. And fight it before anyone has access to the spells that can kill it permanently. Then fight it again later, have the party kill it, and then reveal the big bad.

Chronos
2013-09-17, 09:52 AM
I've heard folks suggest that the Tarrasque can even be a good, interesting encounter for a level 1 party. Of course, at that point, fighting it is completely out of the question: The challenge becomes organizing the evacuation and rebuilding of the towns in its path.

JoshuaZ
2013-09-17, 09:55 AM
I've heard folks suggest that the Tarrasque can even be a good, interesting encounter for a level 1 party. Of course, at that point, fighting it is completely out of the question: The challenge becomes organizing the evacuation and rebuilding of the towns in its path.

Given how dumb it is, you might be able to at a fairly low level organize a series of mages and druids whose job it is to just keep summoning small creatures and keep leading the Tarrasque around in a big circle. In that case, it might even be happy because it gets to constantly eat and fight. But the suggestion you make sounds like a more serious and potentially substantially more interesting one (although I don't think there are a lot of good mechanics for handling somehting like an evacuation).

Prime32
2013-09-17, 10:55 AM
Pseudonatural Paragon TarrasqueNot actually any more dangerous than a normal tarrasque. Even if you send it against an lv20 party, the only thing that covers its weaknesses is the greater dispel magic SLA, and the caster level is so low it might not even work.

Roguenewb
2013-09-17, 11:23 AM
The re-feating thread accomplished pretty much everything. They got it the ability to hit incorporeal (apparition ribbon), fly (balance on the sky), and true see (Keeneye Lenses? Something incarnum). Under those circumstances, its a pretty good monster.

Xuldarinar
2013-09-17, 11:31 AM
Not actually any more dangerous than a normal tarrasque. Even if you send it against an lv20 party, the only thing that covers its weaknesses is the greater dispel magic SLA, and the caster level is so low it might not even work.

I may be misunderstanding, but where are you getting greater dispel magic in this?

At-Will: Blur, Dimension Door, Shield, Unhallow. Caster Level 35th.

Karnith
2013-09-17, 11:35 AM
I may be misunderstanding, but where are you getting greater dispel magic in this?

At-Will: Blur, Dimension Door, Shield, Unhallow. Caster Level 35th.
The Paragon template (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/paragonCreature.htm) gives the base creature Greater Dispel Magic, Haste, and See Invisibility as spell-like abilities, usable 3/day at CL 15.

Xuldarinar
2013-09-17, 11:49 AM
The Paragon template (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/paragonCreature.htm) gives the base creature Greater Dispel Magic, Haste, and See Invisibility as spell-like abilities, usable 3/day at CL 15.

Oh, right. I had missed that. Thank you for pointing that out.

ZamielVanWeber
2013-09-17, 12:14 PM
Spines plus, as Eldariel said, the rest of the abomination template (it has almost all of it) as well as magical natural weapons would fix much of the super easiness. You could do more to make it stronger (retool feats, add better templates, etc) but those 3 cover the basic weaknesses.

Chronos
2013-09-17, 01:16 PM
The re-feating thread accomplished pretty much everything. They got it the ability to hit incorporeal (apparition ribbon), fly (balance on the sky), and true see (Keeneye Lenses? Something incarnum). Under those circumstances, its a pretty good monster.
Apparition ribbon wasn't actually quite good enough, since it just allowed re-rolling the miss chance, but as-is the Tarrasque doesn't even get a miss chance (its natural weapons don't count as magical for that purpose). After the thread had run its course, though, I realized that Crystal Helm (which gives all of your attacks the [Force] descriptor) would.

Sir_Leorik
2013-09-17, 01:22 PM
Give it an atomic breath weapon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godzilla) dealing 30d20 damage?

John Longarrow
2013-09-17, 01:31 PM
Just take a page from Timur. Put a big frikking cannon on its head with some good gunners. :belkar:

Truth is ancient dragons can defeat it as is. You would need to completely rebuild it to make it live up to the hype.

Course I can still picture it with a 20" siege mortar firing off its back...

Roguenewb
2013-09-17, 01:34 PM
Apparition ribbon wasn't actually quite good enough, since it just allowed re-rolling the miss chance, but as-is the Tarrasque doesn't even get a miss chance (its natural weapons don't count as magical for that purpose). After the thread had run its course, though, I realized that Crystal Helm (which gives all of your attacks the [Force] descriptor) would.

Still works =) Just a different kind of incarnum silliness was required.