What use is Time Hop? Kind Sucks imo.

[killem2]

So we got a level 5 psion in our party she took this power. She thought it worked a lot more like seeing into the future but the description doesn't seem to support this.

What are we missing? What can we do with this? It's driving us crazy. :smallfurious:

[JusticeZero]

It's a very useful effect as either CC or defense.
Offensively: "The Flanking twins of Flankaster! I can't deal with both of you at the same time. *pop!* Now I can deal with you one at a time.
Defensively: "Crud, we're being ambushed by assassins trying to kill the Princess!" *pop!* "She's out of danger for now. Lock and load, guys."

[Shloogorgh]

Looking at this power for the first time, it looks like you use it on an enemy so you can buff up / get into attack formation or something like that while they are gone.

The subject doesn't get to do anything while they are time hopped, doesn't feel like any time has passed when they return, and must make a wisdom save to come back early, so it's not a positive thing to be time hopped.

[Tvtyrant]

It is like Time Stop with a save. If they fail your party can buff up, summon a swarm of critters around the return site, and then smash them when they reappear. Your whole party benefits from it too, so in some ways it is better than time stop.

Mass Time Stop is an amazing tool for surviving plot-destruction events. A moon drops on the planet, and we take a 2 week time vacation to escape the blast.

[Flickerdart]

Time Hop has many uses:

Separate a team-oriented enemy from his minions, so his buffs are useless, then kill everyone
Save a vulnerable target such as a dying party member or hostage
Wink out of existence while a guard passes by on patrol - being out of time means you can't be detected!
Make sure an enemy steps right into the most hideous trap you can muster by deploying it in the space he will appear
Neutralize an enemy without harming them or making them vulnerable to being killed by a third party
Keep a nosy snooper from hearing a key part of your conversation

[Belril Duskwalk]

You could Time Hop your enemies to A) Buy yourself time to buff yourselves for the fight B) Allow you to fight your enemies one at a time instead of all to once. C) Spend the time repositioning so that you are in flanking positions when he returns.

Alternatively, you could Time Hop YOURSELF (and whatever allies) to avoid a situation. Maybe your enemy is about to bring part of the ceiling on top of you. If you Time Hop as the room collapses you can then reappear a few moments later. As the power (somewhat) safely repositions you if your old space is occupied you likely appear ON TOP of the rubble. With any luck, the enemy will think he succeeded in burying you and will be taken by surprise. Rolling Boulder Trap? Same thing. Pop forward in time to a point AFTER the boulder has rolled through where you currently are.

[Raendyn]

A friend of mine can almost attack you for talking ill of time hop! :smallbiggrin:

This power on my psion has saved his ass ike countless times, and even though its offensive use fades at higher lvls, the defence is absolutely pwnzwr!!

After you get the psionic equivalent of celerity. Anticipatory strike is it? AFB atm. yYou can foil mega attacks. And ofc when you are fighting and someone is at -9 you can hop him and then ready a heal.

[Piggy Knowles]

Time Hop affects objects. Door in the way? Time Hop it into the future!

[Norin]

Time hop away obstacles. (locked doors)
Time hop away the charging knights mount... *ouch*
Time hop away your favourite barmaids dress :smallredface:
Time hop away the pouncing barbarian's greataxe just as he attacks.
Time hop away bridge support as your enemy crosses.
Time hop away a casters component\holy symbol as he's casting.
Time hop away the sail of a ship you need to outrun on the seas.

Etc?

[Segev]

Also an amusing way out of the old "rolling cage" that is used to transport prisoners in every fantasy gulag ever. Time Hop forward a few rounds, and it has already rolled on by when you re-appear. Be sure to work out with your DM in advance whether Time Hope respects frame-of-reference or not. This could become a problem on boats unless you can convince him that it's whatever is narratively convenient for the manifester. (Even though that latter is good for the DM's manifester's, too, I recommend that version of it just to avoid headaches and justification arguments.)

[Malimar]

Time Hop affects objects. Door in the way? Time Hop it into the future!

I call it "the other psionic knock" for this reason. Sure, time hop is one level higher, but I don't want to waste a power known on psionic knock when time hop has so many more uses.

[StreamOfTheSky]

As others have said, defensively it is mostly to protect vulnerable people in "escort mission" set up type encounters. I've also had it used on me once when my character got mentally dominated and was attacking the party (controller never ordered me to "not voluntarily fail saves" :smallwink: ), though in hind sight the humble protection from evil spell would've worked just as well and not forced me to sit out the combat. Since it freezes time, it could also make a difference to remove someone from the time stream to give them more rounds to prepare/figure out how to fix something, like poison or damage over time.

Offensively, it divide and conquers small groups of tough enemies so you don't have to face them all together. Against a single foe, it gives you a chance to buff the hell out and beat the snot out of the foe when he returns. You can also remove objects, like doors.

It's actually one of the more fun, interesting, versatile, and strong powers. And one of those rare few good powers that isn't easily duplicated by a spell.


It is like Time Stop with a save.

I think it's more analogous to Maze, actually. Forces a single target out of action but also safe from harm for a number of rounds.

[Feint's End]

Time hop away obstacles. (locked doors)
Time hop away the charging knights mount... *ouch*
Time hop away your favourite barmaids dress :smallredface:
Time hop away the pouncing barbarian's greataxe just as he attacks.
Time hop away bridge support as your enemy crosses.
Time hop away a casters component\holy symbol as he's casting.
Time hop away the sail of a ship you need to outrun on the seas.

Etc?

this one

the most practical uses of time hop are not those where you target your enemies, your allies or your team but rather those where you affect objects and alter the battleground that way. When I first looked into the power I also thought it is kinda underwhelming but when you look at the utility you can get from taking objects out (such as bridges, doors, support for ceilings etc etc) you can destroy whole encounters with just this one power.

[Eldariel]

It's a keypart of save game trick (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=6570.0). That counts as useful, right? Obviously this also needs Forced Dream so go figure.

[Fax Celestis]

Since it's a psychoportation power, it counts as a teleportation spell for psi/mag transparency. Which means if your wizard buddy casts anticipate teleport on you, you can get even more time. Bonus points if he says "But wait, there's more!" as his spell's verbal component.

[Emperor Tippy]

As has been said, it has a ton of uses. It's great for utility and defensive activities, its also pretty much a will save or loose (if your party can't figure out how to turn the removal into a loss then they probably shouldn't be playing D&D).

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Cast it on the floor that the opponents are standing on.
Cast it on the super dangerous enemy barbarian's greataxe.
Cast it on the unhittable fighter's armor.
Cast it on the enemy's summoned monster.

[Emperor Tippy]

Since it's a psychoportation power, it counts as a teleportation spell for psi/mag transparency. Which means if your wizard buddy casts anticipate teleport on you, you can get even more time. Bonus points if he says "But wait, there's more!" as his spell's verbal component.

Although ask your DM what happens when a character teleports from one point covered by Anticipate Teleport to another point covered by the same AT.

[Svata]

Oh, hey, Tippy's back!

[Tvtyrant]

Oh, hey, Tippy's back!

Guess whose back, back again? Tippy's back, tell a friend!

Guess whose back
Guess whose back
Guess whose back

[Psyren]

I think it's more analogous to Maze, actually. Forces a single target out of action but also safe from harm for a number of rounds.

This is exactly how you should think of it - 3rd-level Maze with no check to return early. And it works on objects, and stops durations so you can use it defensively to sit out poisons etc. It's great.

[Flickerdart]

This is exactly how you should think of it - 3rd-level Maze with no check to return early. And it works on objects, and stops durations so you can use it defensively to sit out poisons etc. It's great.
"In each round of the power’s duration, on what would have been the subject’s turn, it can attempt a DC 15 Wisdom check. Success allows the subject to return. The subject can act normally on its next turn after this power ends."

[Rubik]

Remember, the power is limited by the size (or weight) of the target, so take ranks in Knowledge: Architecture and Engineering in order to figure out which where a structure's weak spots are. See that giant chandelier attached to the ceiling with a rusty chain? YOU ARE - THE WEAKEST LINK! GOODBYE! *CRASH!*

[killem2]

Thanks guys and gals this is a great turnout and it helped her TONS :).

[AttilaTheGeek]

Wait, are you kidding? What can't you do with Time Hop?

"Aww, crap, they're coming for us! Where can we hide?" Time Hop yourself.

"Alright, so I need to bring down this building..." Time Hop a support.

"If only we had a couple rounds to heal up and re-buff!" Time Hop the boss.

"He caught us by surprise! Quick, Time Hop him!"

I was going to write up a bunch more, but they've basically all been said already.

[StreamOfTheSky]

I think it is worth noting... any use of time hop that involves the boss guy failing a will save...you probably could've just ended the encounter on that failed save with a different spell/power anyway, at similar level. Think Glitterdust, Unluck, Bestow Curse, etc...

And on a related note, I hate that the save DC never scales up at all. "The save DC increases by 1 for each two points you augment the power for any reason" should just be a freaking general rule for psionics, not some special feature some powers have and others do not.

[Rubik]

I think it is worth noting... any use of time hop that involves the boss guy failing a will save...you probably could've just ended the encounter on that failed save with a different spell/power anyway, at similar level. Think Glitterdust, Unluck, Bestow Curse, etc...

And on a related note, I hate that the save DC never scales up at all. "The save DC increases by 1 for each two points you augment the power for any reason" should just be a freaking general rule for psionics, not some special feature some powers have and others do not.Agreed, on all counts. Time Hop is generally better for using on mounts, on allies and bystanders, and on scenery.

[Eldest]

Guess whose back, back again? Tippy's back, tell a friend!

Guess whose back
Guess whose back
Guess whose back

Dah nah nah nah nah, nah nah nah nah nah, nah nah nah nah nah, nah nah nah nah!

Time hop clothing!
Time hop doors!
Time hop weapons!
Time hop columns!
Time hop mounts!
Sadly, I think all of these have been covered, but it's really what you can't time hop and find some advantage from that's a short list.

[killem2]

I will be completely honest. I knew it had a few uses, and was trying to go over it, but she said she read some where that it was pretty over the top.

I told her, I'll go on GITP, say it sucks, and I promise you with in 5 mins, I'll get a lot of responses. :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin: Took 7 mins, but hey, that's ok!


You all didn't let down and came up with quadruple the amount of ways I could have ever thought of to abuse this lol.

[Sian]

remember these


An item attended by a character (being grasped, touched, or worn) makes saving throws as the character (that is, using the character’s saving throw bonus).


A Magic Item doesn't need to make a saving throw unless unattended, it is specificly targeted by the effect or its wielder rolls a natural 1 on his save [...] Magic items use the same saving throw for all saves no matter the type [...] A Magic Items saving throw bonus equals 2 + ½ Caster Level (round down) [...] Only exception to this is Intelligent Magical items which make will saves based on their on Wisdom Modifier

So it aren't (always) easier to target the barbarians greataxe than it is targeting him

[Psyren]

I think it is worth noting... any use of time hop that involves the boss guy failing a will save...you probably could've just ended the encounter on that failed save with a different spell/power anyway, at similar level. Think Glitterdust, Unluck, Bestow Curse, etc...

TH works on enemies capable of resisting other many other will saves however. For instance, glitterdust won't do much to a clutch of Darkmantles, but Time Hop will let you divide them up and conquer.



So it aren't (always) easier to target the barbarians greataxe than it is targeting him

If you target the axe, the barbarian gets to choose actually - he can use his own will save or that of the item to keep the axe from being "hopped." And even if he chooses his own will save, if he rolls a natural 1, the axe gets to roll anyway.

[Sian]

If you target the axe, the barbarian gets to choose actually - he can use his own will save or that of the item to keep the axe from being "hopped." And even if he chooses his own will save, if he rolls a natural 1, the axe gets to roll anyway.

As i read it, the 'roll when holder rolls a natural 1 is only when he fails a save targeting him, and then all his items need to roll against that save.

[Epsilon Rose]

TH works on enemies capable of resisting other many other will saves however. For instance, glitterdust won't do much to a clutch of Darkmantles, but Time Hop will let you divide them up and conquer.



If you target the axe, the barbarian gets to choose actually - he can use his own will save or that of the item to keep the axe from being "hopped." And even if he chooses his own will save, if he rolls a natural 1, the axe gets to roll anyway.
The more important point might be the choice he has to make if he fails. If you just time hop him, when he comes back he'll be the same as he was before. However, if you time hop his axe, he'll have to make a rather difficult choice. Either he continues fighting you like normal, with a sub standard weapon or no weapon at all, and forfeits his main weapon for the rest of the fight or he can babysit the spot where his axe was and commit himself to a less favorable position, while poorly armed, for a number of rounds. Either way, if putting him on pause for a few rounds doesn't give you enough breathing room to set up a curb-stomping, disarming him might actually do more damage.

[Keko]

I remember in eyes of the lich queen a dungeon with a room full of whirling-blade columns, the psion time hopped the pivot (is it the correct word?) inside the column, it has been a nice walk.
Moving wall wants to crush you on the opposite side? Time hop the opposite wall and run away.
It was crazy against many traps(time hop the wall with a gliph of death, a lock) and many other things.
If you want to have fun time hop the bad guy then time hop the floor below him (every 2 pp double the weight you can hop), the bad guy comes back, falls in the pit and then the floor reappers in the nearest unoccupied space (over his head).
Better to do it with a monster for loot sake :smallamused:
One of the funniest power evah:smalltongue:

[TuggyNE]

If you want to have fun time hop the bad guy then time hop the floor below him (every 2 pp double the weight you an hop), the bad guy comes back, falls in the pit and then the floor reappers in the nearest unoccupied space (over his head).

This is the best idea yet! :smallcool:

[rot42]

I told her, I'll go on GITP, say it sucks, and I promise you with in 5 mins, I'll get a lot of responses. :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin: Took 7 mins, but hey, that's ok!

Yeah, we know. You seem to have gotten plenty of useful responses anyway, though your DM now has the headache of finding a consistent definition for what is an object in itself and what is part of a larger object; a single link in a longer chain would be the classic example. If you have a fortress you need to defend, Time Hop traps on your delicate tapestries while those pesky adventurers are bathed in flame.

[Fax Celestis]

If you have a fortress you need to defend, Time Hop traps on your delicate tapestries while those pesky adventurers are bathed in flame.

Best.

Contingency.

Ever.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/14a25bd5e4b628b209f9755e25cbe6f8/tumblr_mlxaulXOYr1qc26d5o1_500.jpg

[killem2]

Yeah, we know. You seem to have gotten plenty of useful responses anyway, though your DM now has the headache of finding a consistent definition for what is an object in itself and what is part of a larger object; a single link in a longer chain would be the classic example. If you have a fortress you need to defend, Time Hop traps on your delicate tapestries while those pesky adventurers are bathed in flame.

I think our DM really enjoys that kind of stuff.