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View Full Version : Can't find old Incarnum Tricks combos builds



Talionis
2013-09-15, 01:53 PM
I think this was on the old Wizards site before it went down. Does anyone know if it was archived anywhere? I want to make a non Evil Incarnate. I've read the incarnate by the numbers thread http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1041916.

At this point, I'm just looking for interesting goals for the character to build towards. I'm also looking at what dips would be exciting. I know normally people dip the Incarnum classes.

Psyren
2013-09-15, 02:14 PM
A single level of Incarnate gets you all their soulmelds. You can then rely on feats (or even better, spells/powers) to unlock your chakras and gain essentia.

Two levels of Totemist are even better - that gets you all of their melds, plus the Totem chakra that only they get, and which cannot be accessed from any spells or feats.

But you don't have to just dip - there are plenty of useful Incarnum PrCs out there that let you mix the system in with other classes, including homebrew ones if you're so inclined.

Talionis
2013-09-15, 02:25 PM
Thanks Psyren. I'm really shooting to do mostly Incarnate in a tier three game.

I'm looking for any neat combos and tricks I can build for that will keep on equal footing with a party of roughly that tier.

Talionis
2013-09-16, 07:08 AM
But you don't have to just dip - there are plenty of useful Incarnum PrCs out there that let you mix the system in with other classes, including homebrew ones if you're so inclined.

Ironsoul Forgemaster is weakly the best melee class. There are good Arcane, Divine, and psionic Theurge classes.

Necrocanate is wonky, potentially powerful fluffed evil so not generally playable in our games. We rarely play villain PCs.

There are a ton of PCs that don't advance meld shaping.

I don't see the buffet of options.

Person_Man
2013-09-16, 08:32 AM
General Incarnum Tricks:

90% of the content can be accessed and used effectively with Feats (Shape Soulmeld, the various Open Chakra Feats, and anything that grants essentia). The exceptions are; Totem Chakra (Totemst 2), things that depend on meldshaper level (Necrocarnum Circlet and Vitality Belt), things that require a and Heart/Soul chakra binds (varies).
Share Soulmelds feat: Allows your Animal Companion or Familiar to share the benefits of your soulmelds, basically doubling the usefulness and power of many of your soulmelds.
1 level of Necrocarnate prestige class gives you 1 essentia for 24 hours whenever you kill something. Since essentia fuels pretty much everything and the average adventurer kills tons of enemies, this can be hugely potent. With the Heart of Incarnum Feat, you also gain 1 hit point for every point of essentia you have.



Totemist Tricks:

LOTS of natural attacks which are easy to boost and Pounce.
You can easily boost many commonly used Skills by +6 to +10 for minimal effort.
Super Grapple checks via Girillion Arms.
Blink Shirt bound to Totem is at will, move action Dimension Door. Thus you can use a Standard Action, then Dimension Door, EVERY TURN. You never run out of Power Points, and you never have to "refresh" a maneuver. (And you can do it at level 2).
Frost Helm bound to Totem gives you at will area of effect Stun ability (Remember that enemies also drop their weapons when Stunned).
Gorgon Mask bound to Totem gives you at will Stone to Flesh. (Only effects 1 enemy and lasts one round, but that's long enough for an ally to Sunder that enemy, so it's basically Save or Lose).
Shadow Mantle bound to Shoulders gives you (weird, poorly worded) continuous Greater Invisibility.
Phase Cloak bound to Shoulders makes you Ethereal when you move. (Avoid AoO, can move through walls, flight, etc).
Shedu Crown bound to Crown gives Telepathy, which is useful by itself, and also qualifies you for the uber Mindsight Feat (Lords of Madness).
Brood Keeper's Heart (Dragon Magazine 350 pg 86) bound to Heart gives you the Swarm template.
Various breath weapon options. If you're also a Dragonborn with the Entangling Exhalation Feat (Races of the Dragon), they're worth considering.
Manticore Belt bound to Totem gives you a fairly decent ranged attack.
Many of your coolest abilities kick in at level 1 or 2. This includes various situational things which are very useful at level 1, like Trample, Die Hard, the equivalent of heavy armor, immunity to Flanking, and most of the natural weapon options.



Incarnate Tricks:

In general, Incarnates are insanely difficult to kill, and have access to pretty much every defense in the game.
You can easily boost almost any Skill by +6 to +12 for minimal effort, including Use Magic Device (allowing you to auto-succeed on most UMD checks at low levels).
Necrocarnum Circlet bound to Crown: Your most powerful and important ability. At will, with no cost, you can animate any dead creature with hit dice up to your Incarnate meldshaper level, into a Necrocarnum Zombie (much better then a normal zombie). Basically gives you a second Tier 4 character to control to use as a mount, tackle dummy, door opener, etc, except that you don't have to worry about them dying.
Theraputic Mantle: Increases the effectiveness of any "spell or effect that heals hit point damage" on you by Spell Level + (2*essentia invested). The overlooked trick with this soulmeld is that it specifically works on any effect that heals hit points, and not just spells. Which means you can stack it with Divine Spirit, a Vampiric Weapon, Fast Healing, etc, making you very hard to kill if you can stack a couple of them each round.
Astral Vembraces: DR 2 + (2 * essentia)/magic. That's DR 4/magic at level 1, and DR 6/magic at level 3, and DR 8/magic at level 6.
Mantle of Flame: 1d6 + (1d6 * essentia) retributive fire damage whenever someone hits you. That's 2d6 at level 1 (enough to kill most enemies who hit you), 3d6 at level 3, and so on.
Spellward Shirt: Well scaled Spell Resistance. Screw you casters.
Flame Cincture bound to Waist: Fairly high Fire Resistance. Whenever prevent Fire damage, you can shoot it off as a Swift Action ranged touch attack the next turn. Ally dumps Fireball on top of you and enemies, deals 30 Fire damage to everyone, you resist damage, next round you deal another 30 Fire damage to one target.
Planar Ward: Immunity to mental control. When bound to your Throat, extraplanar creatures (ie, all Summoned creatures, demons, elementals, outsiders, some undead, etc) must Save or be Banished when they strike you.
Vitality Belt: Meldshaper level * essentia invested bonus hit points. Not much at low levels, but by mid-high levels it gets up into 100+ range.
Wind Cloak bound to Shoulders chakra: DR 2 + (2 * essentia)/- against all ranged attacks, and you can Deflect Arrows 1 + essentia invested times per round without needing a hand free, basically making you immune to many ranged attacks.
Fellmist Robe: Scaled Concealment (up to 50%) against all attacks made from at least 5 feet away from you, or at any distance if bound to Soul.
Impulse Boots: Uncanny Dodge. Evasion when bound to Feet.
Incarnum Radiance (class ability) + Incarnate Avatar + Incarnate Weapon + Necrocarnum Weapon + etc: At mid-high levels when you have more essentia, it's not hard to stack a bunch of different damage and/or to-hit combos, keeping up with and occasionally surpassing Power Attack. Google "Incarnum by the Numbers" if you want to see the math. You can eventually also share the benefits of Incarnum Radiance with allies.
Elder Spirit and/or Mage's Spectacles: UMD. Allows you to basically auto-succeed on checks as early as level 3.
Dissolving Spittle: Ranged touch attack that you can use every round with a damage output better then a Warlock's Eldridge Blast.
Arcane Focus bound to Throat. When you damage someone with a spell, they must also Save (using your soulmeld's DC) or be Dazed. Find a Swift Action spell that deals damage.
Illusion Veil: Adds to the duration of Illusion spells. So things like Swift Invisibility is now Invisibility that you can cast as a Swift Action.


Soulborn Tricks:

Don't play a Soulborn. They're terrible. Consider a homebrew fix (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156441) instead.
The two Soulborn only soulmeld worth considering are Mauling Gauntlets (bonus to Strength checks) and Thunderstep Boots (bonus damage on Charge attacks, when bound to Feet enemies damaged on Charge must Save or be Stunned). If you want them, take the Shape Soulmeld Feat.

Psyren
2013-09-16, 08:39 AM
In addition to Person_Man's great post:



Necrocanate is wonky, potentially powerful fluffed evil so not generally playable in our games. We rarely play villain PCs.

The Adaptation turns it good, and the book recommends PCs use it since the default fluff is basically baby-eating evil.



There are a ton of PCs that don't advance meld shaping.


Advancing melshaping is not generally relevant. Soulmeld power is based on essentia invested, not meldshaper level, and getting enough essentia to max out a meld or two is typically easy to do even without advancing a meldshaper class due to the low investment caps.

It matters if someone's trying to dispel your melds, but doing so is like suppressing a magic item, i.e. one at a time.

Talionis
2013-09-16, 01:50 PM
@Person Man, Thank you! I think that was basically what I was looking for. I like seeing all of them in one place to make sure I'm not overlooking something really cool.

@Psyren, Thank you for pointing out that the added essentia at each level helps out a lot. For many builds just adding essentia is a big improvement.

But the Prestige classes that don't advance meldshaping don't open new bind locations or increase your total number of binds.

Its actually funny that any of the melds care about meldshaping level since so few do. Its annoying when you want to use stuff like Vitality Belt. Especially if I were to use Umbral Disciple with it and not increase my meldshaper level even though Umbral Disciple is an essentia welding prestige class. Witchbinder, which interestingly should probably care about its Meldshaper Level the most, to prevent them from being dispelled, loses lots of meldshaper levels.

Its as unusual in my eyes Bloodstorm Blade not advancing initiator level.

Anyway thank you both. Huge help!

Perseus
2013-09-16, 02:17 PM
In addition to Person_Man's great post:



The Adaptation turns it good, and the book recommends PCs use it since the default fluff is basically baby-eating evil.



Advancing melshaping is not generally relevant. Soulmeld power is based on essentia invested, not meldshaper level, and getting enough essentia to max out a meld or two is typically easy to do even without advancing a meldshaper class due to the low investment caps.

It matters if someone's trying to dispel your melds, but doing so is like suppressing a magic item, i.e. one at a time.

Hmm I need to read that section again, I totally forgot about that adaptation...

Now I totally want to run one..

Psyren
2013-09-16, 02:20 PM
Hmm I need to read that section again, I totally forgot about that adaptation...

Now I totally want to run one..

It's one of the few ways in D&D to run a totally good-aligned necromancer. (Not just "not evil," but explicitly good.) And they're quite powerful too, though you may need an eternal wand of Soul Boon to get going for your first combat of the day.

Bonzai
2013-09-16, 02:33 PM
@Person Man, Thank you! I think that was basically what I was looking for. I like seeing all of them in one place to make sure I'm not overlooking something really cool.

@Psyren, Thank you for pointing out that the added essentia at each level helps out a lot. For many builds just adding essentia is a big improvement.

But the Prestige classes that don't advance meldshaping don't open new bind locations or increase your total number of binds.

Its actually funny that any of the melds care about meldshaping level since so few do. Its annoying when you want to use stuff like Vitality Belt. Especially if I were to use Umbral Disciple with it and not increase my meldshaper level even though Umbral Disciple is an essentia welding prestige class. Witchbinder, which interestingly should probably care about its Meldshaper Level the most, to prevent them from being dispelled, loses lots of meldshaper levels.

Its as unusual in my eyes Bloodstorm Blade not advancing initiator level.

Anyway thank you both. Huge help!

Yeah, but Umbral disciple is more for a monk or rogue (sword sage is also fun) with a small incarnum dip (infact you can quilify with just one incarnum feat or race). I love that Prc. There is something really cool about flurrying from 25ft away and having shadowy fists strike your opponent.

Most of the PrC's fall into one of two catagories. Those that are for meld shapers, and those that are for non-meldshapers.

Perseus
2013-09-16, 09:21 PM
It's one of the few ways in D&D to run a totally good-aligned necromancer. (Not just "not evil," but explicitly good.) And they're quite powerful too, though you may need an eternal wand of Soul Boon to get going for your first combat of the day.

I usually just go the "purify spell" + metamagic reducer route to make good necromancy spells but I'll need to check this out.

Psyren
2013-09-17, 12:43 AM
I usually just go the "purify spell" + metamagic reducer route to make good necromancy spells but I'll need to check this out.

The problem with Purify Spell is that it doesn't actually remove the [Evil] descriptor. So you end up casting [Good][Evil] spells with this approach.