melee with disintegrate

[JW86]

hi,

firstly, the keyboard is damaged. forgive bad grammar and certain keys missing please.

secondly, i am making a level 15 character. i mainly want to be a powerful melee combatant, but also want plentiful usage of either the arcane or psionic spell/power, disintegrate. because it's awesome and dramatic. yep.

i looked at swordsage/psion, but the de/wis vs int lack of synergy made it difficult.

i am mid-game now, so please forgive the lack of my input here but please believe i've been looking into this.

maybe easier to go with a melee class with a ring/wand of disintegration in one hand?

any class ideas welcome.

so.

high melee damage, possibly also including sa/craven
disintegration
finally, ability to shadow blink/dismension slide, similar effect useful.

not too many demands, welcoming suggestions.

thank you kindly

[tyckspoon]

Sounds like you want a Slayer-based psigish. One of the simplest is Ranger 1/Psion 6/Slayer 10/ finish off with whatever; Ranger 1 gets you Track and Know (Dungeoneering) to get into Slayer, Psion is Psion, Slayer is full BAB and 9/10 manifesting progression plus a few useful features. I would recommend the Egoist specialty for the Psion part, for access to Hustle and some of the list-restricted buffing powers (especially Metamorphosis if your DM is ok with Polymorph-type effects.) Consider earmarking a few feats for Expanded Knowledge of a few choice PsyWar powers - Psionic Lion's Charge, Form of Doom, maybe Metaphysical Weapon if you want to be able to (Greater) Magic Weapon your own sword. Or Dimension Slide/Dimension Hop for teleports.

[SolioFebalas]

Doomlord PrC, d12 HD, full BAB, and disintegrate (unfortunately 1/day).

[Forrestfire]

Duskblade X/Enlightened Fist 7 lets you channel any rays through your weapons, even using one to hit multiple enemies on the same full attack with only one casting spent.

Sadly, you would not get disintegrate until level 19 with this sort of thing, but you'd still have a good amount of damaging spells to throw around with it. It's an idea, though.

A better idea for something like this would be to go Focused Specialist Transmuter 4/Fighter 2/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Eldritch Knight 3

This will net you level 13 casting, granting you a total of four base 6th level spells (three of which have to be transmutation, but they can be used for Disintegrate), a +13 BAB, and a good amount of abilities to go with it.

If you want to scribe scrolls, you can keep that as your wizard bonus feat, otherwise you can take a fighter bonus feat instead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizard), granting you either three or four fighter feats just from class levels.

See if your DM will let you research an abjuration version of Mage Armor, because even the Abjurant Champion forgot it's an evocation spell. If you can't, then either wear something made of mithril and use that 10% spell failure reduction from Spellsword, or if you're good use Luminous Armor or its Greater variant from the Book of Exalted Deeds.

Some feats you might want other than generic melee combat feats might be metamagic stuff, or crafting if the DM lets you craft as part of your backstory to cut down on costs. If Dragon is allowed, then Arcane Thesis and Easy Metamagic let you add a +2 metamagic feat to Disintegrate for free, like Empower Spell. If the DM doesn't allow Dragon and you find yourself with open feats, Metamagic School Focus from complete mage lets you have three such spells prepared each day. Practiced Spellcaster should probably also be taken so that you're casting at full caster level.

On the melee damage side, you can either go with buffing from transmutation, or grab stuff like Power Attack, Shock Trooper, and Leap Attack to hit like a truck on a charge, and do decent damage afterwards.


The schools you ban for the wizard don't really matter, as long as you keep Transmutation (duh), Conjuration (your blinks and teleports, as well as blasting with Orbs), and Abjuration (for more buffs and Abjurant Champion).

As you level up, you probably just want to keep taking Eldritch Knight, as it gives you full BAB and full spellcasting, ending with +18 and 18th level, respectively.

[JW86]

Thank you so much for the suggestions, your knowledge shines.

The duskblade/enlightened fist sounds amazing, but I have gone with Ranger/Psion/Slayer.

Psionic abilities mainly for AC and other stat buffs, some heals, some blindsense, and most importantly - DISINTEGRATE. And Ultrablast, because that is also awesome.

Now any future levels can concentrate on melee. Looking at two-weapon fighting for major attacks, combined with Psionic Weapon Feats for extra damage. At future levels could even consider swordsage, get Assassin's Stance and Craven, or go Desert Wind to add flame to the blade, which would really suit my character as he is Tiefling. All sorts of options for increased melee output, but for now this sincerely fulfills my desire to shoot green rays of death at my opponents whilst blinking around the battlefield, hitting things with swords an being difficult to hit.

Such a perfect time to introduce this character as well, the Orc Barbarian/Fighter I've been running since the beginning of the campaign has just taken out the power structure of Khare (Titan books) and has crowned himself king. He is the "Chain Breaker" and has a list of ridiculous, boasting titles (aka Danaerys Targaeryen from Game of Thrones, but much longer, accumulated from all his adventures). Which I shall now post, as thanks.



KING ZAKULNAR THROMBEKSSON, FIRST OF HIS NAME, THE BREAKER OF CHAINS AND SLAVER’S BANE, GUARDIAN OF GILLIBRAND AND DEFENDER OF KHARE AND THE IRONHELM, CHAMPION OF THE ARENAS, BESIEGING ANNIHILATOR OF DROW, SLAYER OF FLAYERS AND CRUSHER OF MINOTAURS, THE SHAPE-SHAFTER, WINDWALKING CHAMPION OF THE VOID, THE LOSER OF VIRGINITY, THE GREAT BASTARD OF KHUL AND LIBERATOR OF THE FREE PEOPLES.

The Tiefling is going to be a very charismatic advisor to said Barbarian King. Probably an envoy to other Kingdoms. So much funs.

[Big Fau]

Go Gish and use Black Blade of Disaster (and see if your DM will let you use it as a melee weapon).

[JW86]

Big Fau - I.. I never... I never realised.. such an awesome item existed. My DM finds the idea of me casting loads of disintegration spells quite funny so I've just sent him an excited, begging message.. I can only await his decision.

Thing is - if I got this blade, I could technically go fighter or swordsage quite happily. Oh well. Character sheet is now almost done I'm not going back on myself.!

Thanks so much haha.

[JW86]

At this point I have access to 8 feats - 6 general from levelling, and 2 from psion.

This is working at Ranger 1/Psion 5/Slayer 9.

I very much want to go with two-weapon fighting for this character, combining many attacks with ways of increasing melee damage through feats, powers etc.

I also want to improve my disintegrate to dastardly levels.

I also want to use Psychic Warrior powers - Psionic Lion's Charge, Form of Doom(very emotionally attached to this after reading about it) and Dimension Slide.

So, the feats I am interested in thus far would be:
Psionic Meditation
Practiced Manifester (Psion) - for upping ML allowing me to cast even more dangerous Disintegration... haha..
(Quicker Power
Empower Power
Maximise Power
Twin Ray) - I appreciate there are four metapsionics here, I would settle for 2 of the best.
Exp. Knowledge: Psionic Lion's Charge
Exp. Knowledge: Form of Doom
Exp. Knowledge: Dimension Slide - Cast Quickened Disintegration, then zhoosh to the other side of the room.
Psionic Weapon - my STR not amazing, seems a stable way to add damage to melee attacks
Greater Psionic Weapon - moreso
Two-Weapon Fighting
Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
Greater? Two-Weapon Fighting - because having six attacks would be awesome.

I count 14 feats. Far more than I have access to at the moment. I appreciate I cannot take them all, but I want as many as possible.

One thing I was considering, was taking one more level in Ranger and taking Two-Weapon Fighting class feat. Then dip two levels in fighter and take improved and greater two-weapon fighting. That would give me plenty of attacks. It would also give me the melee feats I want using just three levels.

That would give me 11 of the 14 I want, plus during that period I would have one more general feat, giving me 12 of the 14. That should be enough, really.

Do others have ideas to weigh in with? Seems you guys have awesome ideas that would never even occur to me.

Once I get this sorted with +1Slayer/+1Ranger/+2Fighter, I can then get a +6 item of wisdom, go swordsage, get time stands still, go form of doom and get my well-deserved sixteen attacks in a round.

[JW86]

Go Gish and use Black Blade of Disaster (and see if your DM will let you use it as a melee weapon).

He considers that item a minor artifact in this campaign setting, so will not allow my new character to have it.

I get 5,000 gold of gear, so probably a couple of MW scimitars/short-swords will have to suffice for now.

[Forrestfire]

Isn't it a spell though? :smallconfused:

[JW86]

Think I will do this for now, unless anybody has any good suggestions. I'm all ears.

LEVEL 15 -8 FEATS:
Psionic Meditation
Practiced Manifester (Psion)
Quicken Power
Empower Power
Expanded Knowledge: Psionic Lion's Charge
Expanded Knowledge: Dimension Slide
Psionic Weapon
Greater Psionic Weapon

LEVEL 16 RANGER, get Two-Weapon Fighting
LEVEL 17 FIGHTER, get Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
LEVEL 18 FIGHTER get Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Gain Expanded Knowledge: Form of Doom as Level-up Feat

Form of Doom makes sense to get later, it is a very awesome ability that screams high level!

This campaign will probably see us through to level 30, so plenty of time to develop further.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

... Pathfinder Magus with Close Range arcana?

(Ducks rocks)

[Flickerdart]

Big Fau - I.. I never... I never realised.. such an awesome item existed. My DM finds the idea of me casting loads of disintegration spells quite funny so I've just sent him an excited, begging message.. I can only await his decision.

Thing is - if I got this blade, I could technically go fighter or swordsage quite happily. Oh well. Character sheet is now almost done I'm not going back on myself.!

Thanks so much haha.

Black Blade of Disaster is a spell - it creates a sword-shaped void that flies around and disintegrates things that it hits.

[tyckspoon]

I'd skip Psionic Weapon and Greater Psionic Weapon; they only work on one attack, and between Lion's Charge/Hustle/teleport powers you should pretty much always be able to make a Full Attack. Worse, they require you to expend your Focus, which conflicts with doing the same to use your meta-psionic feats.


If you want to enhance your attacks, you could consider turning one of those feats into another Expanded Knowledge for Weapon of Energy.. but if you're looking at turning your PP into melee damage, I'd probably just invest in a couple of Deep Crystal weapons. Lets you invest 2 PP into the weapon to get 2d6 damage on your next hit as a free action, so if you're willing to run through your power points quickly you can do it with every hit for no action cost.

[Forrestfire]

I am personally still of the mind that arcane magic is the way to go here, if only because it hands you a more tools to play with and a better BAB, while still getting you 9th level spells. However, if you think psionics fits the theme better, go for it, it's awesome and it's not like you could ever be useless if you're taking Psion. :smallbiggrin:

I'll echo the idea that the psionic weapon line of feats aren't that useful to you. They don't do as much damage compared to what you give up, as tyckspoon said.

Also, the Abjurant Champion's adapatation suggests that you could easily convert it to psionics by swapping the mechanics a bit, so maybe bug your DM about that, because it's another full BAB + Full casting class to toss on top of Slayer.



(More on the arcane gish method, slightly off-topic now, but I decided to still say it)

If it's the fact that you want to spam mostly disintegrate, the spell point system (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/spellPoints.htm) might be something to look at, especially if your DM goes with the second method of doing metamagic feats (because free metamagic is always amazing, and free twinned split ray disintegrates are even better).

Also, with Fighter 2/Wizard 4/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Eldtritch Knight 8, you'll simply be able to cast Black Blade of Disaster in the (possibly near, depending on leveling speed), as you end up with an effective wizard level of 17 at level 20.

Feats to grab:

[Big Fau]

Isn't it a spell though? :smallconfused:


Black Blade of Disaster is a spell - it creates a sword-shaped void that flies around and disintegrates things that it hits.

Yeah, 9th level Sor/Wiz spell, featured in CArc or the Spell Compendium.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Use the Arcane Swordsage variant on page 20 of ToB, briefly explained under the Adaptation header. Be careful though as it's very easy to make a ridiculously overpowered character with that. This will allow you to pick Disintegrate as a 6th level maneuver and initiate it with no daily limit, just the recovery mechanic with a high action cost for combat.

[JW86]

So many useful suggestions, thank you.

I'm going to draw a line here and say the character is psionic, in line with tyckspoon's suggestion, not arcane magic - although that suggestion does look very powerful, Forrestfire, I just love the psionic mechanics.

So, I'm satisfied with the amount of awesome disintegrate, form of doom, and ultrablast destruction I'll be doing. I'm happy with lion's charge and dimension sliding around the battlefield with hustle for speed. I'm happy with inertial armour, mental barrier, force screen and others for defencive buffs. I am fully super-saiyan gish, minus the melee attack/damage aspect.

It is just the melee +attack and +dmg I need to figure out. Character starts with 16STR. I will buff that with items and tomes over time. Will go two-weapon fighting and have many attacks.

One option would be to dip swordsage for assassin's stance and take the craven feat. Then dip Elocator 4 for Flanker, so auto-flank enemies at will, combined with multi attacks and craven/sa damage. Taking the long-view.

Otherwise, deep crystal weapons may be the way forward, but I was hoping for something that does not eat important, juicy Disintegration PP lol.

Some generic (add +Character Level to Damage) or (add XD6 Damage to every attack) Perma-effect. Otherwise, Empowered Psionic Animal Affinity (+6STR), Form of Doom (+4 STR), charge.

Thanks again for many great suggestions.

[Forrestfire]

Since you're already using Lion's Charge, the obvious choice for melee damage is to focus on the charging aspect.

Power Attack is obvious, because it boosts your damage (you'll do more with a two-handed weapon than if you're two-weapon fighting, but it's still a lot of damage). Because attack bonuses scale so much easier than armor class, you can definitely afford to drop your bonus for extra striking power in most situations.

The Leap Attack feat from Complete Adventurer will let you deal an additional +100% of the damage you add with power attack.

Shock Trooper from Complete Warrior (requires Improved Bull Rush) gives some neat tricks with Bull Rush and lets you apply your attack penalty with Power Attack to your armor class instead, so if you think you have a good chance of killing something, you could, say, drop your AC by 10+ and just deal 10 more damage on each attack (10 if charging with Leap Attack), etc.

Depending on what weapons you're using, Oversized Two Weapon Fighting would be needed to use your full bonuses from Power Attack alongside only -2/-2 penalties.

Adding melee damage without focusing on stuff like this is trickier, probably necessitating the use of precision damage and Craven, or some sort of way to add debuffs to your attacks. I'm honestly not sure what is best, though.


One silly idea that may not fly (or fit theme) would be to ask your DM for a pair of Life-Drinkers (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#lifeDrinker) that are your weapon of choice instead of greataxes, along with an amulet of Death Ward. Unlikely to be allowed, but it'd be hilarious to be a whirlwind of negative levels in combat in addition to your disintegrates.


Also, one thing I notice is that you're planning on taking a metapsionic feat that isn't actually usable yet with your power of choice—Quicken Power pushes the PP on disintegrate to 17. Empower Power still works, though.


So, feats I would suggest for your current build:

1st: Power Attack, Track [ranger bonus]
2nd: Empower Power [psion bonus]
3rd: Two-Weapon Fighing
6th: Leap Attack, Psionic Meditation [psion bonus]
9th: Expanded Knowledge: Psionic Lion's Charge
12th: Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting
15th: Practiced Manifester (Psion)


Then, at levels 16 and 17, if you wanted, you could take fighter levels to grab Improved and Greater TWF (if your dexterity is high enough). Level 18 gives you a normal feat, which can be Quicken Power (since you can actually use it now).

For the remaining levels, I'd suggest finding some other stuff you find neat, or bugging your DM to look at the Adaptation section of the Abjurant Champion, which has a blurb on altering it to work with psionic stuff like Inertial Armor. I may have mentioned that already, not sure.

[JW86]

Yes yes yes. Falling into place.

Oversized Two Weapon Lion Charging, Power Attacking Madness, with Flaming Magic Swords (+1d6 fire damage/hit).

Can always look at just a couple of levels in Swordsage to get the stance that adds another +1d6 fire damage.

so 6 attacks would =12d6 fire damage if all hits, plus the benefits from those feats. Fantastic.

ORR... 2 Life-Drinkers. Jesus. Ouch.!

From there it's all modified Abjurant Champ.. Me likely :)

Form of Doom would still be nice.. but this is more than enough to work with for now.

[JW86]

Hmm, I'm having a minor re-think.

4 feats on two-weapon fighting seems a lot, as awesome as it would be. Also I have 16 DEX, so would be needing to get a +3DEX item asap to get the GTWF.

Still interested in power attack, leaping attack etc., I'm just wondering if I could put those two-handed feats more towards form of doom, weapon of energy and split energy ray.

Still, the idea of leaping through the air and landing six fiery psionic attacks on an idea suits the Tiefling's aggressive nature perfectly.

Ohh the difficulty.

[Forrestfire]

Well, if you decide to do that, you're going to do more damage using a two-handed weapon of some sort, because of Power Attack adding twice the penalty you take to damage when using a two-hander.

[JW86]

Feats (Two-Handed):
1st: Power Attack, Track [ranger bonus]
2nd: Empower Power [psion bonus]
3rd: Two-Weapon Fighing
6th: Leap Attack, Psionic Meditation [psion bonus] complete adventurer
9th: Expanded Knowledge: Psionic Lion's Charge
12th: Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting / complete adventurer
15th: Practiced Manifester (Psion)

16 - Fighter - Improved TWF
17 - Fighter - Greater TWF
18 - Slayer - Quicken Power (Or Expanded Knowledge: Form of Doom)
19 onwards - Psionic Abjurant Champion/Psion
LEVEL 21 - LEVEL 9 POWER - GREATER METAMORPHOSIS INTO BALOR / HD-20

Would allow some pretty sick melee combat, plenty of good psionic abilities, and.. eventually.. the ability to metamorphosise into a pit fiend. Which would suit my tiefling to a T.

However, a single two handed weapon would save many feats, and even make the dip into fighter redundant. I could still have decent hand-to-hand, with the benefit of going straight to slayer or psionic abjurant champ., allowing me to get level 9 psionics sooner, and transform into a pit fiend sooner. Which would suit my tiefling to a T.

Still, the idea of him charging around the battlefield swiping savagely at opponents with dual fiery shock scimitars/longswords, casting disintegrate left right and centre makes me warm inside.

Two-Handed Weapon
1st: Power Attack, Track
2nd: Empower Power
3rd: Empty
6th: Leap Attack, Psionic Meditation [psion bonus]
9th: Expanded Knowledge: Psionic Lion's Charge
12th: Expanded Knowledge: Form of Doom
15th: Practiced Manifester (Psion)
16 - Slayer
17+ Psionic Abjurant Champ
18 - Quicken power
Generally get to level 9 psion power earlier..

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Skip TWF, skip the Fighter levels. Go either Ranger 1/ Psion 6/ Slayer 9/ Psionic Abjurant Champion 4+ using this Ranger variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger) to get Fast Movement, or go Strong-Arm style Ranger 2/ Psion 4/ Slayer 9/ Psionic Abjurant Champion 5. Either of these will give you 9th level powers by 20th level. Get Practiced Manifester early.

Using Greater Metamorphosis to take the form of a Balor is one of its least optimal uses. You can use regular Metamorphosis to turn into a War Troll (MM3) at level 10 with Overchannel, gaining its physical stats, natural armor, and Dazing Blow ability. With Greater Metamorphosis you can take the form of a Solar and get its ability to cast spells as a 20th level Cleric.

If you reach the epic levels, you probably want to pick up another prestige class like Metamind or Thrallherd or Sanctified Mind or Anarchic Initiate. If you start out Ranger 2/ Psion 4, take your 5th Psion level at 21, epic psionic feats are still psionic feats so you can take one with your Psion 5 bonus feat as long as you qualify for it.

Get a Psicrystal and keep Share Pain manifest on it so you take half damage from all sources. Its Hardness 8 will reduce each instance of damage it takes from Share Pain by that much regardless of the original attack's type. Keep it in a compartment on your person so opponents will never have line of sight/effect to it and cannot target it directly or hit it with area effects. You can even put a Healing Belt (MIC) on it and it can use that to heal you during combat. You can also manifest Vigor and share it with the psicrystal just like any buff for a nice hp cushion.

[JW86]

Psicrystal, Share Pain.. excellent, thank you.

Going with a two-handed weapon, with following feats at level 15

Psicrystal Affinity
Practiced Manifester (Psion)
Empower Power
Expanded Knowledge: Psionic Lion's Charge
Power Attack
Leap Attack
Improved Bull Rush
Shock Trooper

Allows me to charge/hustle/full attack intro into melee with some pretty decent power-buffs. With the high AC from inertial armour, thicken skin, etc., I can use Shock Trooper to good effect.

Allows me psicrystal affinity with share pain for increased durability and Empower Power for awesome disintegrates and other abilities.

Thanks for your help, everyone.

Now, I am really curious (and envious) - the spell Haste would be so helpful for my character. As a Psion, is there any psionic equivalent power? I still want to savegely hack enemies to pieces.

Also, with the "Shock Trooper", I am unclear - during a full-attack, with three attack actions, if I -5AC.. is that total for the full attack, or is that stacking per individual attack?

[JW86]

Psicrystal, Share Pain.. excellent, thank you.

Going with a two-handed weapon, with following feats at level 15

Psicrystal Affinity
Psionic Meditation
Practiced Manifester (Psion)
Empower Power
Expanded Knowledge: Psionic Lion's Charge
Expanded Knowledge: Form of Doom
Power Attack
Improved Bull Rush
Shock Trooper - Fighter 16
Leap Attack - Fighter 17 - praying these are okay to take as fighter feats - they seem fairly melee-appropriate.
QUICKEN POWER - SLayer 18.

Allows me to charge/hustle/full attack intro into melee with some pretty decent power-buffs. With the high AC from inertial armour, thicken skin, etc., I can use Shock Trooper to good effect.

Allows me psicrystal affinity with share pain for increased durability and Empower Power for awesome disintegrates and other abilities.

Thanks for your help, everyone.

Now, I am really curious (and envious) - the spell Haste would be so helpful for my character. As a Psion, is there any psionic equivalent power? I still want to savegely hack enemies to pieces.

Also, with the "Shock Trooper", I am unclear - during a full-attack, with three attack actions, if I -5AC.. is that total for the full attack, or is that stacking per individual attack?

+12/+7/+2 BAB at the moment. I plan to fully go Slayer and other BAB/ML classes from here on, plus boost my strength and int massively. Need to get higher BAB and bonuses to attack. I would rather not metamorphosis as it does not suit my idea for my character, until high level when absolutely pushed to the brink of death and forced to go Balor or similar Super-Saiyan style demonic form. :smallamused:

[Forrestfire]

Also, with the "Shock Trooper", I am unclear - during a full-attack, with three attack actions, if I -5AC.. is that total for the full attack, or is that stacking per individual attack?

All Shock Trooper's heedless charge ability does it let you apply your Power Attack penalty to your armor class instead of your attack roll.


On your action, before making attack rolls for a round, you may choose to subtract a number from all melee attack rolls and add the same number to all melee damage rolls. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus. The penalty on attacks and bonus on damage apply until your next turn.


The penalty would apply once (whether or not it's "-x to AC" or "-x to all attack rolls") and the damage bonus is then applied to all attacks. Both of these stick around until your next turn.