So--foreshadowing?

[Winter Light]

I know the forum loves rampant speculation and all that, and I'd be surprised if this hasn't been brought up before, though I have, personally, never actually seen it discussed. So!

The order is currently on the western continent, a bit south of elven lands. As they don't seem like they'll be on speaking terms with Tarquin in the immediate future, and will probably need to procure transport back to the eastern continent, it is, I feel, certainly feasible that they might find themselves taking a trip up there.

The Order also has a member who, despite seemingly having resigned themselves to letting their marriage die, has also let us know what they might do were they to find themselves in danger of being replaced (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0385.html).

So--what does the forum think? Was this a one-off comment, or a sign of things to come?

[NerdyKris]

Except that V isn't being "replaced". V is being divorced. And with good reason. And V has already accepted that and said they will not contest it. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0679.html)

[DeadMG]

It is foreshadowing, in that V was removed from her marriage and did not, in fact, use any shred of her arcane power to do jack **** about it. Maybe there will be some reunion between Kyrie and V, but I dunno. I'm not really feeling that now is the right time. V needs to go further in redemption would be my guess.

[Yendor]

It was foreshadowing the black dragon incident, where V goes to extreme measures to defend her mate. This is noted in the commentary for Don't Split the Party.

[David Argall]

The party has a need to get North ASAP. Maybe they have a month to get there, but even a day may be too long. So they will move fast. We may well have an adventure on the way, but they will avoid everything they can. That means there is a very high chance there will be almost nothing until they reach the North.

[Roland Itiative]

Aren't the Azurites technically on elven lands too? I think it's more likely they'd go to the place where they have confirmed allies, rather than taking a detour on lands that may not welcome them.

[F.Harr]

Aren't the Azurites technically on elven lands too? I think it's more likely they'd go to the place where they have confirmed allies, rather than taking a detour on lands that may not welcome them.

Well, teleport is a much faster mode of transport that boat.

[1chapelcredit]

This strip is pretty cool in that foreshadows the alliance/friendship between V (and maybe the rest of the Order) and Sabine, just like the most recent strip.

[NerdyKris]

This strip is pretty cool in that foreshadows the alliance/friendship between V (and maybe the rest of the Order) and Sabine, just like the most recent strip.

What alliance? I strongly doubt that there is going to be any lasting friendship or partnership between the two other than having one common enemy at the moment.

[strijder20]

What alliance? I strongly doubt that there is going to be any lasting friendship or partnership between the two other than having one common enemy at the moment.

Sabine has noone to fight for but the IFCC (who she does not seem to exceptionally like, but with whom she shas a legal contract, IIRC) and revenge for Nale's death, in which case it seems logical to team up with the order temporarily. After which she has no real reason to attack the Order anymore, it being Nale's completely useless and wacko plan anyway.

[Chessgeek]

Sabine has noone to fight for but the IFCC (who she does not seem to exceptionally like, but with whom she shas a legal contract, IIRC) and revenge for Nale's death, in which case it seems logical to team up with the order temporarily. After which she has no real reason to attack the Order anymore, it being Nale's completely useless and wacko plan anyway.

To my understanding, the Order will have to ignore Tarquin until after dealing with the main plot. At that point, perhaps she would team up with them, but at the moment I see very little reason for her to assist the order. Not that there's a good reason not to either, although we don't know what the IFCC has planned for her next.

[F.Harr]

This strip is pretty cool in that foreshadows the alliance/friendship between V (and maybe the rest of the Order) and Sabine, just like the most recent strip.

Ain't it interesting?


What alliance? I strongly doubt that there is going to be any lasting friendship or partnership between the two other than having one common enemy at the moment.

Well, She DID rather like V's advice back in AC, and, she REALLY wants revenge. A short-term ally is STILL an ally. Just not, you know, for every long.

[RMS Oceanic]

At most, I suspect that the Order may spend some time in the Elven lands, whether V wants to or not. Their best resource for transport at this moment would be V having learned Limited Wish to cast teleport, but I doubt that gets them far enough to reach the Dwarven lands, but it does get far enough for the Elven lands, where they may be able to bum a ride from the likes of Aarindarius or similar. However they may also have to deal with the more personal fallout of V's deal.

[F.Harr]

At most, I suspect that the Order may spend some time in the Elven lands, whether V wants to or not. Their best resource for transport at this moment would be V having learned Limited Wish to cast teleport, but I doubt that gets them far enough to reach the Dwarven lands, but it does get far enough for the Elven lands, where they may be able to bum a ride from the likes of Aarindarius or similar. However they may also have to deal with the more personal fallout of V's deal.

That could take up a fair amount of the next book. Oo!

[Silverionmox]

At most, I suspect that the Order may spend some time in the Elven lands, whether V wants to or not. Their best resource for transport at this moment would be V having learned Limited Wish to cast teleport, but I doubt that gets them far enough to reach the Dwarven lands, but it does get far enough for the Elven lands, where they may be able to bum a ride from the likes of Aarindarius or similar. However they may also have to deal with the more personal fallout of V's deal.

Very plausible. We haven't visited V's authority figure yet.

[David Argall]

Very plausible. We haven't visited V's authority figure yet.
And we likely won't either.
100 pages ago, the party were tourists that could be diverted to nearly anywhere. Now they have a destination and a deadline. They need very strong reasons [like a hostile army] to divert from a straight line North by the fastest means they can think of.
They are also the heroes. That means high level [non-enemy] figures need to stay off the stage and not make us ask questions like why they don't do the heroics themselves.
So V's former master is highly likely to stay in the background. More likely the psion will open a gate for the party once the fuss of battle dies down and the party will end in dwarven lands.

[RMS Oceanic]

And we likely won't either.
100 pages ago, the party were tourists that could be diverted to nearly anywhere. Now they have a destination and a deadline. They need very strong reasons [like a hostile army] to divert from a straight line North by the fastest means they can think of.
They are also the heroes. That means high level [non-enemy] figures need to stay off the stage and not make us ask questions like why they don't do the heroics themselves.
So V's former master is highly likely to stay in the background. More likely the psion will open a gate for the party once the fuss of battle dies down and the party will end in dwarven lands.

If you recall Giant's comments in the 616 thread, that offer was only for Elan and maybe Haley. Even if there would be a big enough reconciliation for Elan to now accept such an offer, the other Order members would not be able to avail of it. I assume this battle will not end with accepting Tarquin's help, or Tarquin offering it to anyone beyond Elan. This leaves the Order in a desert with no resources for long distance travel.

[F.Harr]

Very plausible. We haven't visited V's authority figure yet.

V has an authority figure?

[Onyavar]

The party has a need to get North ASAP. Maybe they have a month to get there, but even a day may be too long. So they will move fast. We may well have an adventure on the way, but they will avoid everything they can. That means there is a very high chance there will be almost nothing until they reach the North.


And we likely won't either.
...they have a destination and a deadline. They need very strong reasons [like a hostile army] to divert from a straight line North by the fastest means they can think of. ...

Two days ago, the party left the Empire of Blood. This happened 100 strips ago. Sure, rescuing the world is a priority. But why do it now?

There are several reasons why they need to deal with Tarquin FIRST, not last.

First, there is Roy. Roy is sensible. He has come to know Tarquin, and I doubt he will leave the Western Continent to the man who has sentenced him to death in the arena, who drafted him into a mission where he subsequently fought against him for the gate, and who just now ordered his army to kill him. Leaving Tarquin behind is bad strategy - Roy will never now when Tarquin will start to be a recurring villain just like Nale was. Even worse, Tarquin has supposedly unlimited materiel.

Deal with him NOW, and Roy has secured his back from further stabbing. He also gains valuable XP that he will desperately need to finish of Xykon. Adding to that Haleys and Elans needs to depose Tarquin and rescue Ian - staying on the Western Continent until Tarquins death is a forgone decision, in my opinion.

And then, there are several metagaming reasons, too:
- the party just followed the main plot for what - 200 comics? Okay, they had to deal with constant, annoying distractions, but they deliberately followed the main plot. (Just the difference to the bandit arc, the Cliffport arc the Kubota/thieves guild arc!) They need a rest, to wrap up sideplots by the dozen.
- Vaarsuvius and Durkon both need (less urgently) a few resting moments to set their priorities straight and find out their new spot in the party. As does Belkar, but his change has been too subtle, so the party will hardly notice.
- The Order is already in place. Travel to the North and beat Xykon, then come back to wrap up the last sidequest, is just anticlimactic.
- Tarquin has declared himself to be "main villain". We as audience know that he isn't, Rich has stated that he isn't, and the order (Elan!) knows that he isn't. We all know that Tarquins demise is inevitable - even Tarquin admitted it. So why stall? Tarquin is just another Kubota, in fact - thinking everything is around himself, and looking forward for "the trial of the century" i.e. "the epic story that everybody will tell their children". Cut him short.

So, in short: No, the Order will not make a beeline to Serinis dungeon, and instead choose to stay on the Western Continent for a bit. There needs to be done some research revolving around the gates, too. And hey - maybe Ians hiding place will lead to even another important sidequest. And to come back to the OP: Yes, Sabine and the elves will also play their part, and return to the stage when we will last expect it.

[Onyavar]

V has an authority figure?

Yes (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0630.html), Aarindarius (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0634.html).

If I had to guess, V might be already of a higher level than A, and just doesn't realize it.

[F.Harr]

Very plausible. We haven't visited V's authority figure yet.


Yes (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0630.html), Aarindarius (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0634.html).

If I had to guess, V might be already of a higher level than A, and just doesn't realize it.

But, isn't A more of an "ex" authority figure? I don't do what Paula tells me any more because I don't work for her and haven't for ten years.

[Silverionmox]

And we likely won't either.
100 pages ago, the party were tourists that could be diverted to nearly anywhere. Now they have a destination and a deadline. They need very strong reasons [like a hostile army] to divert from a straight line North by the fastest means they can think of.
They are also the heroes. That means high level [non-enemy] figures need to stay off the stage and not make us ask questions like why they don't do the heroics themselves.
So V's former master is highly likely to stay in the background. More likely the psion will open a gate for the party once the fuss of battle dies down and the party will end in dwarven lands.

Going straight north will very likely take them through the elven lands: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0698.html

[F.Harr]

Wouldn't they have to do north-east-ish?

[Silverionmox]

But, isn't A more of an "ex" authority figure? I don't do what Paula tells me any more because I don't work for her and haven't for ten years.
He's more a tutor than a former employer. When faced with the choice to deal with the fiends, the thought of needing to ask help from Aarindarius was something that irked V into accepting - all the wrong reasons, remember.

In addition, he's got that divorce thing to deal with too, and it's been a while since we've seen the lawyers..


Northeast-ish?
All depends how the map is oriented and in which direction the gate lies exactly.. but in any case there's still some off-panel area of the map if you go straight upwards. It remains plausibly foreshadowed, in any case.

[Nilan8888]

Rich responded to some comments of mine in the forum at one point concerning the Elven reaction -- or lack therof -- to Tarquin's rise to power (or rather, the lack of reaction to the steadily growing size of nations in the southern continent). Based on the Elven presence in the storyline up until now and my own, personal, gut-feeling-that-could-totally-be-wrong sense of the comments he made, the Elven nations are not going to have any further involvement in the Order's mission than it already has had. If not less.

It has sounded to me that he had thought out the overall position of the elves on things that may or may not effect them, but that by and large hadn't gone into major detail over it. Which would suggest that we're not headed to the Elven lands any time soon, if ever.

True, the OOTS wants to head north, but I was under the presumption that they want to be in the 'north' on a totally different continent: the continent that the OOTS hails from, to me, seems like it's rather bigger than the Western Continent, and there were already 2 gates based there (Girard and Lirian's). The last one to me feels like it would be in the Dwarven Lands, and if I had to guess, that's where we'd be headed next.

But again, this is all me. Please do not in ANY way presume I know what's going to happen in the story. Could be starting next strip all the OOTS, Team Evil AND the EoB will be killed off and replaced by an all elven-cast with all-elven problems, 24/7.

[F.Harr]

Rich responded to some comments of mine in the forum at one point concerning the Elven reaction -- or lack therof -- to Tarquin's rise to power (or rather, the lack of reaction to the steadily growing size of nations in the southern continent). Based on the Elven presence in the storyline up until now and my own, personal, gut-feeling-that-could-totally-be-wrong sense of the comments he made, the Elven nations are not going to have any further involvement in the Order's mission than it already has had. If not less.

It has sounded to me that he had thought out the overall position of the elves on things that may or may not effect them, but that by and large hadn't gone into major detail over it. Which would suggest that we're not headed to the Elven lands any time soon, if ever.

True, the OOTS wants to head north, but I was under the presumption that they want to be in the 'north' on a totally different continent: the continent that the OOTS hails from, to me, seems like it's rather bigger than the Western Continent, and there were already 2 gates based there (Girard and Lirian's). The last one to me feels like it would be in the Dwarven Lands, and if I had to guess, that's where we'd be headed next.


Also, why go through the mountains?


But again, this is all me. Please do not in ANY way presume I know what's going to happen in the story. Could be starting next strip all the OOTS, Team Evil AND the EoB will be killed off and replaced by an all elven-cast with all-elven problems, 24/7.

That's fair.

[David Argall]

Sure, rescuing the world is a priority. But why do it now?
Because there may be no other chance. Any delay, whatsoever, means they may arrive at the last gate too late. There are simply no valid grounds for taking any diversions here.



There are several reasons why they need to deal with Tarquin FIRST, not last.
Well of course. Tarquin has put himself directly in the party's way. They can't get North if he kills them. & it makes sense to kill him now to wrap up this part of the plot. But if Tarquin retreats in any way... To stay around to finish him off risks X taking over the world. Tarquin must be given a pass if he gets out of the way.



First, there is Roy. Roy is sensible. He has come to know Tarquin, and I doubt he will leave the Western Continent to the man who has sentenced him to death in the arena, who drafted him into a mission where he subsequently fought against him for the gate, and who just now ordered his army to kill him. Leaving Tarquin behind is bad strategy - Roy will never now when Tarquin will start to be a recurring villain just like Nale was. Even worse, Tarquin has supposedly unlimited materiel.

Deal with him NOW, and Roy has secured his back from further stabbing. He also gains valuable XP that he will desperately need to finish of Xykon. Adding to that Haleys and Elans needs to depose Tarquin and rescue Ian - staying on the Western Continent until Tarquins death is a forgone decision, in my opinion.
Quite possibly, because Tarquin will likely die in the next 5 minutes or so. Whether that will be by V, Roy, or Elan is a guess, but this is a good situation for getting rid of Tarquin. But fighting any extended, multi-day effort to remove Tarquin is just saying X rules the world. It is not an acceptable result from the party view.



And then, there are several metagaming reasons, too:
- the party just followed the main plot for what - 200 comics? Okay, they had to deal with constant, annoying distractions, but they deliberately followed the main plot. (Just the difference to the bandit arc, the Cliffport arc the Kubota/thieves guild arc!) They need a rest, to wrap up sideplots by the dozen.
There are none, unless the party wants to make them sideplots. Once the party is no longer threatened, the rest of the book can be wrapped up in 5 pages. Now, there are lots of things they might get into, if they had the time, most everything would be just put off with the need to get North.



- Vaarsuvius and Durkon both need (less urgently) a few resting moments to set their priorities straight and find out their new spot in the party. As does Belkar, but his change has been too subtle, so the party will hardly notice.
Viewed as time, that is 24 hours. Viewed as strips, that may be most of the next book, but it can be done on the run as they head North.
- The Order is already in place. Travel to the North and beat Xykon, then come back to wrap up the last sidequest, is just anticlimactic.
[/QUOTE]
Which is why Tarquin dies here and now. It is not why the party will fight an extended war with him.



- Tarquin has declared himself to be "main villain". We as audience know that he isn't, Rich has stated that he isn't, and the order (Elan!) knows that he isn't. We all know that Tarquins demise is inevitable - even Tarquin admitted it. So why stall? Tarquin is just another Kubota, in fact - thinking everything is around himself, and looking forward for "the trial of the century" i.e. "the epic story that everybody will tell their children". Cut him short.
Again, this just means Tarquin dies very soon, effectively within minutes.



So, in short: No, the Order will not make a beeline to Serinis dungeon, and instead choose to stay on the Western Continent for a bit. There needs to be done some research revolving around the gates, too.
Right... Study about the gate so that you will be well prepared for a battle that was lost days ago.

[Dr.Gunsforhands]

...what if Xykon wins?

That would give Tarquin another opportunity to die quietly; after all, he was muckin' about playing Sim City-state while a real villain was going for the big score.

Granted, this still pretty much assumes that the Order goes straight to their destination. It just wouldn't be the same unless they get to the gate just a moment too late.

...though, leaving now and having T die in a footnote somehow would fit Elan's criteria, too. Maybe Ian does it, I don't know.