Improving turning as a cleric while taking a PrC

[Kol Korran]

A question about a game I'll be participating in PbP: My cleric wishes to become a Sovereign Speaker, but the class doesn't improve the turning ability. Is there a way to improve it, preferably with a feat? (Thinking of something such as "practiced caster" only for turning). I wish to mitigate the "price" the PrC takes on the ability to turn

And yes, I know turning is suboptimal and all that. I still wish him to have some ability in this. Doesn't have to be great, but decent enough.

I very rarely play as a player, and I'm usually quite crappy with builds, So thank you. :smallsmile:

[SolioFebalas]

Improved turning feat, but it increase you turning ability for only 1 level.

[holywhippet]

Heighten turning from Libris Mortis lets you add your effective turning level to your turning check.

[sleepyphoenixx]

There's a lot of items that improve turning level and most of them stack, to the point where you can easily get +15 or even +20 turning level. They are usually not that expensive either.
Defenders of the Faith, MIC and BoED have most of them iirc.

[Kol Korran]

What matters to me is less the turning check, which I think I can get fairly well, but the "cleric level", which is the basis for what undead I can affect. That is the main trouble. If we'll be dealing with more powerful undead, I want to be able to affect them. The turning roll, as good as it may be can only grant me a +4 to the cleric level in terms of the strongest undead I can affect.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

There isn't a way to make up lost character levels of Turn Undead ability, your best option is probably to take divine feats to spend those Turn Undead uses on other things. Domain Spontaneity in CD will allow you to spend a turn use to spontaneously convert a prepared spell to one of the same level from the selected domain. Get that for the Sun domain and you can cast Searing Light, Sunbeam, and Sunburst spontaneously. Take it again for the Cold domain (I'd actually start with that one and use the PH2 spontaneous domain casting ACF) and you've got Chill Touch plus powerful spells that work on any opponent like Sleet Storm and Wall of Ice. You can also grab the Magic domain and a Wand of Command Undead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/commandUndead.htm) for any powerful mindless undead you run into, plus prepare Moon Bolt (SC) if you expect to encounter mindless undead.

Edit: You can also pick up a Devotion feat from Complete Champion in place of gaining a domain. Most of them have limited daily uses, but you can spend turn undead uses to activate them more often. Travel Devotion, Earth Devotion, and Law Devotion are some of the better choices.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Rod of Authority (Defenders of the Faith) +4 lvl for Turn/rebuking
Sacred Armor/Shield (BoED) +2 lvl
Icon of Ravenloft (Espedition to Castle Ravenloft) +4 lvl
Phylactery of Undead Turning (SRD) +4 lvl
Flamewrought Iron Holy Symbol (ECS) +1 lvl
Ephod of Authority (MIC) +1 lvl

There's more but i'm not bored enough to go combing through books right now. :smalltongue:

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Rod of Authority (Defenders of the Faith) +4 lvl for Turn/rebuking
Sacred Armor/Shield (BoED) +2 lvl
Icon of Ravenloft (Espedition to Castle Ravenloft) +4 lvl
Phylactery of Undead Turning (SRD) +4 lvl
Flamewrought Iron Holy Symbol (ECS) +1 lvl
Ephod of Authority (MIC) +1 lvl

There's more but i'm not bored enough to go combing through books right now. :smalltongue:

All of those stack with your current level though, they can be used even if your turning level from class levels is equal to your character level. Sure you can invest in items to make up for having a low base turning level, but it's usually not even worth the investment. You'll normally only see a list like that on a character with not just full turning, but Radiant Servant levels for 3+Cha uses of the Sun domain's Greater Turning power so you're guaranteed to destroy any undead you encounter even if its CR is drastically higher than your party level and/or it has stacked turn resistance and been bolstered.

[Chronos]

If you want to have an always-available option for dealing with undead, you're much better off just using Cure or Mass Cure spells that you can cast spontaneously. Pretty much the only case where Turn Undead is useful is huge masses of weak minion enemies, like normal-sized skeletons and zombies, and a MCLW or MCMW will rip through those, while also incidentally giving a nice present to any of your teammates that are injured.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

If you want to have an always-available option for dealing with undead, you're much better off just using Cure or Mass Cure spells that you can cast spontaneously. Pretty much the only case where Turn Undead is useful is huge masses of weak minion enemies, like normal-sized skeletons and zombies, and a MCLW or MCMW will rip through those, while also incidentally giving a nice present to any of your teammates that are injured.

Another thing to note about Mass Cure/Inflict spells, they have a set number of possible targets, rather than any number of available targets in a given area. The any number of targets in an area spells (such as Horrid Wilting) can only target each creature once, but the Mass Cure/Inflict spells can target the same creature multiple times up to the target limit. Note the hard caster level cap is per creature targeted, so if your Cleric 9 casts Mass Cure Light Wounds and targets the ogre zombie four times, the troll skeleton three times, and the party fighter twice, the zombie will take 4d8+25, the skeleton takes 3d8+25, while the fighter is healed for 2d8+18.

[Kol Korran]

Rod of Authority (Defenders of the Faith) +4 lvl for Turn/rebuking
Sacred Armor/Shield (BoED) +2 lvl
Icon of Ravenloft (Espedition to Castle Ravenloft) +4 lvl
Phylactery of Undead Turning (SRD) +4 lvl
Flamewrought Iron Holy Symbol (ECS) +1 lvl
Ephod of Authority (MIC) +1 lvl

There's more but i'm not bored enough to go combing through books right now. :smalltongue:
Thanks! these will do nicely. I also found the talisman od undead mastery, which is cheap enough for me to acquire, anduseful enough for my needs. Thanks a bunch!


There isn't a way to make up lost character levels of Turn Undead ability, your best option is probably to take divine feats to spend those Turn Undead uses on other things. Domain Spontaneity in CD will allow you to spend a turn use to spontaneously convert a prepared spell to one of the same level from the selected domain. Get that for the Sun domain and you can cast Searing Light, Sunbeam, and Sunburst spontaneously. Take it again for the Cold domain (I'd actually start with that one and use the PH2 spontaneous domain casting ACF) and you've got Chill Touch plus powerful spells that work on any opponent like Sleet Storm and Wall of Ice. You can also grab the Magic domain and a Wand of Command Undead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/commandUndead.htm) for any powerful mindless undead you run into, plus prepare Moon Bolt (SC) if you expect to encounter mindless undead.

Edit: You can also pick up a Devotion feat from Complete Champion in place of gaining a domain. Most of them have limited daily uses, but you can spend turn undead uses to activate them more often. Travel Devotion, Earth Devotion, and Law Devotion are some of the better choices.

Thanks for the advice, I've allready taken a travel domain spontaneity feat, might take for sun or glory as well. That will do nicely I think. Thanks a bunch!