Mystic Knight

[Canis Wolfsong]

Hello Playground,

I have recently been inspired to try and add a magic element to my previously mundane front-line character Knight 5/ Fighter 2. I am interested in mixing some magic primarily focusing on buffing. I was looking at the Eldritch Knight and spellsword as possibilities. As of right now I have a 18 CHA so I was looking to use that as my primary stat seeing as how my WIS and INT are modest. All books are good except Dragon Magazine, please let me know your thoughts. Also if you guys think this path is not realistic I would love build suggestions for a mundane build focusing on melee and survivability current stats are STR 14 DEX 15 CON 14 WIS 10 INT 12 CHA 18. Feats: Power Attack, Iron Will, Cleave, Endurance, Dodge, Weapon focus (Long Sword), Improved unarmed Strike. Feedback is appreciated.

[Psyren]

The Suel Arcanamach (CArc) is Cha-based and a great way to add some casting to an existing melee build. You could also look into retraining some of your Fighter levels using the rules in PHB2 and picking up something more straightforward like Sorcerer before going into the standard gish PrCs like Abjurant Champion and the two you listed.

[Fax Celestis]

You could also see if your DM would let you use War Mind, altered to CHA manifesting.

Divine Crusader (CDiv) would also be a solid choice. If you really want to throw some loops, you could go Divine Crusader into Sovereign Speaker (FoE) or Prestige Paladin (UA).

[Firechanter]

First off, are you houseruling multiclass XP penalties? If not, those will hit you if you ever take more than 3 levels of another base class.

Secondly, you'll probably want something that allows you to keep wearing armour. Depends on how high you intend to pump Dex. Light Armour is not a problem for any Arcane caster (go Mithral Twilight Chain Shirt), but otherwise you may want to pull some strings to enable Medium Armoured Casting without ASF.
Or just take a Divine spellcasting class, of course; that always works (but won't qualify for Eldritch Knight).

Bear in mind that Eldritch Knight requires 6 levels of Sorcerer or 7 levels or Bard.

Here is a quick overview over Cha-casting base classes, yoinked from BG:

Bards (1-6 usually spontaneous arcane) cha
Dread Necromancer (- spontaneous arcane+divine) cha [own ALL KNOWN, +wiz/cleric necro]
Favored soul (- spontaneous divine) cha w/wis DCs [cleric list]
Hexblade (half spontaneous arcane) cha [own list]
Jester (1-6 spontaneous arcane) cha [own list]
Nightstalker [Races of Ansalon 153] (1-6 spontaneous divine) cha [own list]
Sha'ir (semi-prepared arcane; nigh-spontaneous access to the entire sorc/wiz list) cha
Shugenja (- spontaneous divine) cha [own list]
Sorcerers (- spontaneous arcane) cha
Spellthief (half spontaneous arcane) cha [sorc/wiz]
Warmage (- spontaneous arcane) cha [own list ALL KNOWN + wiz evoc]

[Canis Wolfsong]

Sorry should have cleared that up, there are no XP penalties for multi-classing. Also, psionics are SUPER rare in my DM's world so it almost impossible that I would have the unique ability to start manifesting psychic powers. I was maybe thinking going bard because the inspire courage ability would go well with my current maneuvers as my DM allows both knights and fighters to choose one school from ToB; in my case i chose white raven.

[Flickerdart]

I would recommend Divine Crusader for two levels, then jumping into Prestige Paladin or Prestige Ranger, and then Contemplative or (if your DM permits) Sovereign Speaker, to increase your spells known. You have so many levels already that using spell progression of the bard or even the sorcerer will just waste your time - the spells you get will be too low level for anyone to care.

[Kuulvheysoon]

+1 to Suel Arcanamach. Toss some Abjurant Champion on there for auto-quickened abjurations and go to town.

[Canis Wolfsong]

Any thoughts on me taking the rest of my lvs in Bard and picking up song of the white raven?

[Gwendol]

Are you planning on going crusader too? Or does your DM allow your knight levels to qualify?

In any case you make far too little use of Bulwark of Defence, which is the main selling point of the Knight.
If you want to stay non-magical consider using a reach weapon and pick up combat reflexes. Actually, you likely want that anyway.

[Flickerdart]

Any thoughts on me taking the rest of my lvs in Bard and picking up song of the white raven?
You won't get very much out of that many Bard levels, because Inspire Courage scales very poorly. Take a few levels, and then boost the IC bonus with items, spells, and feats.

[Xerlith]

ARCANE

Grab Combat Casting at 9th (or - better - multiclass into Duskblade to get it for free at 2nd level), enter Suel Arcanamach at 10th, take Shield as one of your spells, enter Abjurant Champion, max it, re-enter Suel to snatch 5th level spells, preferably enjoying a single Spellsword level inbetween. You're set, with abjurations you cast on yourself longing 3 times as long as normal. Which is long, since AbjChamp 5 sets your Caster Level at your BAB.
If you're good aligned, use Luminuous Armor (or the Greater one) as your Armor bonus spell, it'll give you a total of 6+5 or 8+5 AC (and a -4 to melee attack rolls for your enemies). And it lasts 3 hours/caster level (Extended Spellstrength+Extended Abjurations). In the first round of combat you may want to drop Shield spell (autoquickened) for a +9 Shield bonus.

Duskblade 3 allows you to channel all the touch spells you may cast through melee attacks for a damage spike. Use your Duskblade slots for Shocking Grasp, which'll give you a +3d6 damage bonus (For when you have to move and attack. If full-attack is available, you're better off, well, full-attacking).

Level breakdown:

(Knight5/Ftr2)
/Duskblade2
/Suel Arcanamach 1
/Abjurant Champion 5 (Suel progression)
/Spellsword1
/Suel Arcanamach +2
/Duskblade+1
/Whatever (preferably Crusader or Warblade) 1

You end up with 19 BAB (-1 from Suel), 19th Caster Level (as soon as you hit 5th Abjurant Champion level), auto-quickened Abjuration spells of up to 3rd level. All spells you cast on yourself are autoextended (abjurations are tripled).

You ignore up to 15% Arcane Spell Failure (But you'll be casting Luminous Armor on yourself anyway). A single Initiator Level gives you some 5th level maneuvers for more options in combat. Duskblade gives you minor utility spells that you might like. You may burn your spell slots to empower your melee thanks to the AbjChamp 4th level ability. Beginning at 15th level you virtually cannot be dispelled, since the Dispel Check of the spells you cast on yourself is your Caster Level + 6.


If you manage to retrain your Improved Unarmed Strike (Just... Tell me. Why? Why this and WF(Longsword)?) and snatch Combat Casting instead, go for it. And enter Suel as soon as 8th level. Then proceed with the build as written, but don't take any Duskblade levels. The remaining 4 levels you might as well take a Crusader for some maneuvers (12th Initiator Level at 20th, meaning 6th level maneuvers).

Alternatively you may fill your remaining 13 levels with Crusader and be pretty much happy with an IL of 16. Sadly, no 9th level maneuvers for you. :smallfrown:)

Alternatively-alternatively (yea, I have more), for more divine protector-y arcane feel (without actually being a divine caster), go:

(Knight5/Ftr2)
/Knight of The Weave 2 (you qualify), snatch Combat Casting
/AbjChamp5
/Spellsword1
/Crusader1 (Iron Guard's Glare!)
/

DIVINE

(probably your best bet), go...

(Knight5/Ftr2)
/Cleric1
/Crusader1
/Ruby Knight Vindicator 2 (ask your DM to refluff it for any other deity and sacrifice Armored Stealth ability for it, you do not benefit from it anyway)
/Prestige Paladin 2
/Ruby Knight Vindicator +7

Here you want to take some Turn-Undead powered feats, we need to put this high CHA to good use.
Divine Might is awesome for you (CHA to damage? Yes please!). Divine Vigor might be good as well.
Prestige Paladin 2 gives you CHA to saves. And smite evil, so Charisma to hit vs evil targets... Once.
You cast like a 9th-level cleric, meaning 5th level spells. Grab Practiced Spellcaster to bump up your Caster Level.
Depending on your deity, you might want to exchange one of your domain powers for a Devotion feat.

Not the most optimized build, but it fares well. I'd say, very well.
Grab Iron Guard's Glare as your first stance.


If anything's unclear, PM me.

[Canis Wolfsong]

Wow, thank you for all the suggestions. But i was wondering isnt there a feat that allows you to use your CHA instead of WIS for divine casting? I mean that way i could nab cleric and hit up bone knight.

[Fax Celestis]

Wow, thank you for all the suggestions. But i was wondering isnt there a feat that allows you to use your CHA instead of WIS for divine casting? I mean that way i could nab cleric and hit up bone knight.

Dynamic Priest (Legend of the Twins)

Benefit: For the purpose of determining bonus divine spells per day and maximum divine spell level, your primary spellcasting ability is Charisma. If you have more than one divine spellcasting class, the bonus applies to only one of those classes. Your spell save DCs are not affected by this change.

Special: You may only take this feat as a 1st-level character. If you take this feat more than once, it applies to a different divine spellcasting class each time. You may take this feat even if you have no divine spellcasting classes yet.

[Psyren]

There's also Lost Traditions.

But both are 3rd-party.

[Fax Celestis]

There's also Lost Traditions.

But both are 3rd-party.

DCS and related materials isn't third-party: it was outsourced to Sovereign Press by WotC and is therefore sort of a second-party: sanctioned subcontracted work. Same holds true for White Wolf/Sword and Sorcery for Ravenloft.

[Flickerdart]

Divine Might is awesome for you (CHA to attack and damage? Yes please!).
Divine Might is CHA to damage only.

[Canis Wolfsong]

Great ideas, all around. There is however hiccup in the plan, my character is not religious; and it would take a miracle (pun intended) for his to find his faith. Also, my DM decrees that paladin is a regional class, and atm my country is at war with said nation in charge of producing paladins. So despite my characters back story revolving around him wanting to be a paladin and an "ideal knight" he cant actually do so. Otherwise great suggestion, RBK FTW!

[Xerlith]

Divine Might is CHA to damage only.

Thanks. I forgot. Oops. :smallredface: Still, Prestige Paladin gives you Smite Evil. Cha to attack. :D


Great ideas, all around. There is however hiccup in the plan, my character is not religious; and it would take a miracle (pun intended) for his to find his faith. Also, my DM decrees that paladin is a regional class, and atm my country is at war with said nation in charge of producing paladins. So despite my characters back story revolving around him wanting to be a paladin and an "ideal knight" he cant actually do so. Otherwise great suggestion, RBK FTW!

You can be a deity-less cleric. Just be a strong believer of an idea. Protecting the weak, fight for your beliefs, war in defense, stuff like that. Refluff RKV to taste, probably just say it's a battle cleric.
Pick War domain, use your weapon as the "deity's" favored. Go to town.

If not... Well. Go for the Suel Arcanamach.

[Zombulian]

I always support a Spellsword dip, as it is nice in the way that not many other 5/10 casting classes are by giving you extra casting on the 1st level of the class.