Druid build advice

[Nightgaun7]

Threw this together quickly. I have read both the handbooks, but I always like to get advice from others too.

Questions:
1) Should I switch to Predator? Seems like they've got more support and better riders.
2) Bump a strong save or help a weak one with Hardy Form?
3) Which theme? Under consideration:
- Elemental Priest
- Fey Beast Tamer
- Tuathan
- Spellscarred Harbinger
- Guardian/Outlaw/Mercenary (lumped together for fluff purposes)
4) Gear? I always find equipping a character to be one of the hardest things to do
5) Multiclassing Fighter or Barbarian - good or bad idea? Monk might be cool too.

Here's the build I have so far. Note that PB is 2 higher than normal. I'm open to switching to a shifter if it will benefit me.


level 5
Wilden Druid
Primal Aspect Option: Primal Swarm
Hardy Form Option: Hardy Form Reflex
Associate: Trained Fey Panther
Last of the Breed (Last of the Breed Benefit)
Theme: Fey Beast Tamer

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 13, CON 19, DEX 13, INT 10, WIS 19, CHA 8

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 13, CON 16, DEX 13, INT 10, WIS 16, CHA 8

AC: 13 Fort: 16 Ref: 15 Will: 17
HP: 51 Surges: 11 Surge Value: 12

TRAINED SKILLS
Endurance +12, Heal +11, Nature +13, Perception +12

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +3, Arcana +2, Athletics +3, Bluff +1, Diplomacy +1, Dungeoneering +6, History +2, Insight +6, Intimidate +1, Religion +2, Stealth +5, Streetwise +1, Thievery +3

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Wilden Racial Power: Voyage of the Ancients
Wilden Racial Power: Wrath of the Destroyer
Wilden Racial Power: Pursuit of the Hunter
Druid Feature: Wild Shape
Druid Attack 1: Grasping Claws
Druid Attack 1: Fire Hawk
Druid Attack 1: Swarming Locusts
Druid Attack 1: Scattered Form
Druid Attack 1: Savage Frenzy
Druid Utility 2: Barkskin
Druid Attack 3: Flowing Swarm
Druid Attack 5: Vine Serpents

FEATS
Level 1: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Stinging Swarm
Level 2: Ruthless Killer
Level 4: Implement Expertise (Totem)

ITEMS
Animal Messenger
Ritual Book
Arcane Mark

[Epinephrine]

I have always wanted to play a swarm druid, but it is (IMO by far) the weakest option. It is nearly impossible to have decent AC, which is a serious problem for the build. When it was written I think it was meant to go with the original version of the Hide Armor Expertise, which would let one use Con to AC. And the Sentinel Druid gets Con to AC. If you can't get Con to AC (ask your DM to house rule the feat back, and promise you won't use it on a barbarian - or make it only apply to Swarm druids), it's probably not worth playing one, though you might do *ok* at level 5

Shifter predator can be very nasty, particularly with an Earthfall totem and the Shifter paragon path.

Not sure if there's a way to make a hybrid swarm druid that can get the damage reduction (the main reason to go swarm) and have decent defenses; if there is, perhaps that's an option.

EDIT: Looks like I may have been wrong; I crunched some numbers, and the damage reduction does seem to offset the increased damage you get from your lowered AC; it's not brilliant, but you do see some advantage against foes in your level range. High level (L+3 and L+4) foes less so, but it's still a net advantage at this level, and seems to last into paragon (the +1 to all stats at 11 buffs your Dex to 14, which is handy). I assumed L+5 to hit and L+8 average damage for creatures (MM3 stats). Of course, there's the fact that you'll get more annoying riders and ongoing damage, as well as extra damage from certain creatures (those that get an additional attack or grab if they hit with both claws, for example), but that'll be partially offset by you largely ignoring minions.

1) Not sure - swarm is neat, but predator is what you want if you want to be a secondary striker.
2) I tend to bump my strong defenses over my weak ones - you're a sitting duck on a weak defense anyway.
3) I'd go with Guardian; you have a nice MBA and can soak a bit of damage, so taking a hit for your ally isn't as bad.
4) Earthfall totem if you are taking a push/prone at-will MBA?
5) Not sure, depends on what you are aiming for. Battle Awareness is an off-turn attack, and is a favourite of many players.

[Nightgaun7]

1) Not sure - swarm is neat, but predator is what you want if you want to be a secondary striker.

5) Not sure, depends on what you are aiming for. Battle Awareness is an off-turn attack, and is a favourite of many players.

I mostly want to be a dude who turns into a bear or rhino or whatever. Which secondary role works best for that? I'm not sure what the rest of the party will consist of yet, but it's hard to go wrong with a dose of striker.

[Gavran]

What you turn into is entirely fluff.

[Epinephrine]

I mostly want to be a dude who turns into a bear or rhino or whatever. Which secondary role works best for that? I'm not sure what the rest of the party will consist of yet, but it's hard to go wrong with a dose of striker.

Ok, I would go with a predator druid then. Dex secondary, Wis primary.
Items at 5th level would include Claw Gloves (level 4) and an Earthfall Totem (unfortunately a 2+ item, so you probably have a level 2 version for now, pick up a level 7 version ASAP). Use Savage Rend as a power (includes a slide) and your at-will can be 1d8+Wis+1d6(earthfall)+1d10(claw gloves) when you have CA. A shifter can have the right attributes (Dex, Wis) and opens up the Moonstalker paragon path (+1d6 damage against prone targets, to +2d6 at 21st; +Wis damage for you and allies when adjacent to and attacking a prone enemy). Get the ability to prone via World Serpent's Grasp (or other ways) and you can have fun slamming foes down and watching your allies help you mob them.

[tcrudisi]

Threw this together quickly. I have read both the handbooks, but I always like to get advice from others too.

Questions:
1) Should I switch to Predator? Seems like they've got more support and better riders.
2) Bump a strong save or help a weak one with Hardy Form?
3) Which theme? Under consideration:
- Elemental Priest
- Fey Beast Tamer
- Tuathan
- Spellscarred Harbinger
- Guardian/Outlaw/Mercenary (lumped together for fluff purposes)
4) Gear? I always find equipping a character to be one of the hardest things to do
5) Multiclassing Fighter or Barbarian - good or bad idea? Monk might be cool too.

Here's the build I have so far. Note that PB is 2 higher than normal. I'm open to switching to a shifter if it will benefit me.

In order:

1. Depends on what you want to do. Currently you are a secondary defender. Predators make excellent secondary strikers. I've never played a Primal Swarm druid ... but that's because I absolutely love Predators. I've played several of them. Their mobility, damage-dealing, and control are all just perfectly synergized to be really, really fun.

2. I prefer to bump strong saves. We tend to do encounters that are a few levels above us, so bumping a weak NAD means I'm still getting hit on a 2. YMMV.

I'm not the best resource to utilize for Primal Swarm (see #1 above), but I'm very good when it comes to the Predators. Having said that, the rest of my responses will be as if you chose a Predator.

3. I'm a big fan of the Seer theme. What what what? I know. Hear me out.

Cast Fortune is awesome if your party is willing to let you use it on them. You can call out things like, "Daily or encounter time!" or "I sense that your future will be VERY good/bad." In other words: You can help allies to not waste their valuable powers ... or to time them just right.

Combine this with the level 10 feature of getting to roll twice for Perception and you've got a winner. I tend to play Elves (+2 racial Perception, perfect stats for the Predator Druid, and either re-roll a miss OR roll Perception for your initiative), and this theme is really slanted for them if you choose Perception = Initiative.

I realize that's not for everyone, though. And it's not for all groups. So, you've got some options. Knight Hospitaler is solid, allowing you to use those immediate actions to heal your allies. Fey Beast Tamer is okay if you really want a pet, but I tend to avoid it. Guardian is a great way to boost up your damage even more and occasionally let an ally be missed.

4. Since you are starting at level 5, you are in luck. Your level -1 item will be an item that you won't replace for probably 20 levels: Claw Gloves. Take them and don't look back.

At level will probably be your neck item. Amulet of Life? In case you find yourself in over your head, getting to use a second healing surge when the Leader heals you is pretty good. It's nothing to write home about (and you might find a better level 4), but out of the level 5's, it's what I'd choose at this level.

Level +1 will be a generic Accurate Staff +2. (Though go for Staff of Ruin asap, so if you want to get a +1 staff and a +2 armor or neck, that's viable.)

For your gold, I'd buy Pouncing Beast Armor. Now when you shift between forms (hint: almost every round), you'll get a free shift both directions. Sweetness.

5. If you go Predator, I'd call it a bad idea. There are some other paragon paths which are much nicer. It really doesn't give you much, either.

For feats, I value hitting above everything. Staff Expertise and Accurate staff proficiency (whatever its called) are usually my #1 and #2 feats. Then probably something defensive. Superior Reflexes is usually my #4. Not only does it boost accuracy in the most important round of combat, but it boosts your secondary NAD into primary territory.

For powers, just make sure you take Thorn Spray. Win initiative, use Thorn Spray, watch as your allies literally beat down the monsters that you hit (which should be most of them). It's a sickening turn 1 power if you are close enough to use it. Giving out -4 to all defenses means that no one should be missing on turn 1. And it helps to focus fire.

[Epinephrine]

5. If you go Predator, I'd call it a bad idea. There are some other paragon paths which are much nicer. It really doesn't give you much, either.

I like fighter for Polearm Momentum, if you decide to go with an Alfsair spear and a slide enhancer. Your Savage Rend (slide 1) becomes a slide/prone, which is fabulous control on an MBA (as well as working well on a shifter Moonstalker for setting the enemy up for your allies to demolish). It's an OA that is hard to ignore, anything trying to charge by you ends up prone and not near its target.

[Nightgaun7]

How's this look? The idea with the Fey Panther is that it helps set up CA for the Claw Gloves and general accuracy.


Wilden Druid
Primal Aspect Option: Primal Predator
Hardy Form Option: Hardy Form Will
Associate: Trained Fey Panther
Silent Hunter (Silent Hunter Benefit)
Theme: Fey Beast Tamer

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 11, CON 14, DEX 19, INT 10, WIS 19, CHA 8

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 11, CON 14, DEX 16, INT 10, WIS 16, CHA 8


AC: 20 Fort: 15 Ref: 18 Will: 19
HP: 46 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 11

TRAINED SKILLS
Heal +11, Nature +13, Perception +12, Stealth +13

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +5, Arcana +2, Athletics +1, Bluff +1, Diplomacy +1, Dungeoneering +6, Endurance +3, History +2, Insight +6, Intimidate +1, Religion +2, Streetwise +1, Thievery +5

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Wilden Racial Power: Voyage of the Ancients
Wilden Racial Power: Wrath of the Destroyer
Wilden Racial Power: Pursuit of the Hunter
Druid Feature: Wild Shape
Druid Attack 1: Grasping Claws
Druid Attack 1: Fire Hawk
Druid Attack 1: Swarming Locusts
Druid Attack 1: Thorn Spray
Druid Attack 1: Savage Frenzy
Druid Utility 2: Ferocious Transformation
Druid Attack 3: Predator's Flurry
Druid Attack 5: Summon Guard Drake

FEATS
Level 1: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Superior Implement Training (Accurate staff)
Level 2: Ruthless Killer
Level 4: Implement Expertise (Staff)

ITEMS
Ritual Book
Animal Messenger
Arcane Mark
Claw Gloves x1
Magic Accurate staff +2 x1
Amulet of Life +1 x1
Predator Hide Armor +1 x1

[tcrudisi]

I like the character. If I was playing LFR and someone showed up with the character at a table, I wouldn't be disappointed to see it.

Having said that, some minor things to consider:

1. How long will the game last? You've started with an odd number in your attack stat and secondary stat. If the game won't last more than 2 levels, then it's absolutely in your favor to either lower Wis by 1 and increase Dex by 1, or lower Dex by 1 and Con by 1 to increase Wis by 1 (the latter is what I'd do). If the game is going to last until level 10, then you can disregard this as you've made the decision to be stronger at levels 8-10. If the game lasts until level 11-13, I'd consider increasing wis, lowering Con and Dex again. In other words: make sure that you'll have even scores in your primary and secondary for the majority of the character's life.

2. I know that Ruthless Killer is a good feat. I get it. You are one of the few classes that can have the mobility to go get beside an archer and lock them down. But, personally, I still don't care for the feat. You are begging to be attacked. The problem? As a Predator Druid, you are already going that just by hopping in and out of melee. In my personal experience with it, you don't need to do things like immobilize monsters beside yourself to make yourself enough of a target to help your party; you'll do that just by your presence. You don't want to be focused on too much, and that's what I think this feat will do. Obviously you can choose not to use it, but then you've got a wasted feat.

3. The summon guard drake is an okay power, but it doesn't blow my mind. If you really want a summon, consider taking the Summon Giant Toad from level 1. It really is all that and a box of chocolates as far as summons go, even if you ignore the completely obvious Lickitung references.

My personal favorite level 5 daily is Vine Serpents. Burst 1 that allows you to restrain (or if you miss, immobilize) enemies. Eventually those enemies are going to leave the zone - and they'll take damage for it. Your allies will take up camp outside the zone, so the enemies will attack outside of it - and they'll take damage for it. It's really a win/win. If you can work with your defender, then after the restrain wears off, he can park himself in such a way that the enemy can't move, and that's just 9+ damage every time the bad guy attacks. The power even works on large and bigger creatures because, as long as one square is in the zone, the creature is in the zone. I've seen this power used as both a DM and a player, and, in the hands of a party that knows how to work together, it's awesome.

There are other decent choices at level 5, I'm just not a big fan of the guard drake. It's instinctive is what gets me. It marks enemies? That might just interfere with your defender. It uses your immediate action to make the attack. (Granted you don't have many of those yet.) It's just one of those situational powers. If you don't have a defender, it's pretty good. (But even then I'd consider Vine Serpents as you will literally take several melee monsters out of the combat for 1+ rounds if your party has some forced movement.)

Anyway, that's my critique on it. As I said, it's a solid character. If you enjoy bouncing between ranged and melee, the Primal Predator Druid does it better than anyone.