3.5 Material ONLY - best two handed weapon

[Yuric the Bold]

OK gang!
Thanks to your valuable input I have decided on my character build for my upcoming campaign. Basically think Lvl 15 Barbarian/Fighter/Dungeoncrasher Variant/Charger build. There are a few other classes thrown in for optimal results/FEATs/gi****ude.
But now I need to know what I am going to wield for my two handed weapon. Spiked Chain for reach? Two handed sword? Great Minotaur Warhammer?
I am trying to figure out the best combination of materials for the weapon and any other enhancements that can be placed on the weapon to increase Critical Threat Range, Critical Multipliers, and overcoming DR.
I've read some of the non-3.5 material for laminated steel, serrated blade and other AEG nonsense which my DM is not allowing; but if it is found in 3.5ONLY source material then I can use it.
Unleash your fury upon me!

[Crake]

Without picking up exotic weapon proficiency, you're probably gonna be happy with a simple greatsword. As your static modifiers go up though, falchion with it's larger crit range would be nice, or something like a greataxe or scythe for the higher crit multiplier.

[holywhippet]

Arguably the best melee weapon in the game are the fists of a monk. At level 20 they do 2d10 damage for a medium sized monk which is higher than any other medium weapon. They are also both considered natural and manufactured weapons for the purpose of feats, items and spells that work on such things.

Won't really work with your build though.

[eggynack]

Spiked chain is probably the best, but a guisarme will do in a feat starved pinch. Either way, you're trading off two damage off of a greatsword for a whole pile of abilities, and it's a good trade.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Actually monk fists fall behind the infamous minotaur greathammer. With 18-20 crit range and x4 crit damage it's average damage is insane. Combine with Disciple of Dispater for extra critting action.

[Arundel]

Arguably the best melee weapon in the game are the fists of a monk. At level 20 they do 2d10 damage for a medium sized monk which is higher than any other medium weapon. They are also both considered natural and manufactured weapons for the purpose of feats, items and spells that work on such things.

Won't really work with your build though.

Except for the fact that only half of that is true.


A monk’s unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured
weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects
that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural
weapons (such as the magic fang and magic weapon spells).

Add the lack of special abilities, lack of DR penetration, and the fact that they are on a monk (for starters) and you'd be hard pressed to validate your point. Oh, and a lack of proficiency. EDIT: And by definition cannot be two handed.

Really a longsword in two hands isn't bad, but my recollection of two handed weapons is out of date.

[Yuric the Bold]

Good aligned characters generally don't make for the best Disciples of Dispater; plus that's a 3.0 PrC isn't it?

[Big Fau]

Arguably the best melee weapon in the game are the fists of a monk. At level 20 they do 2d10 damage for a medium sized monk which is higher than any other medium weapon. They are also both considered natural and manufactured weapons for the purpose of feats, items and spells that work on such things.

Won't really work with your build though.

Monk's unarmed strikes are not 2-handed weapons, as the OP specified.

Greatsword, Falchion, Guisarme (for tripping), and maybe a few others are pretty much the best you get.

[Firechanter]

Spiked chain is probably the best, but a guisarme will do in a feat starved pinch. Either way, you're trading off two damage off of a greatsword for a whole pile of abilities, and it's a good trade.

Pretty much this.
Spiked Chain if you can afford the feat.
Any old Martial Reach Weapon otherwise.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Good aligned characters generally don't make for the best Disciples of Dispater; plus that's a 3.0 PrC isn't it?

I misread that sorry. Slap Improved Crit on it then for 15-20/x4 on a d12 two handed weapon. It will hurt!

[Yuric the Bold]

Are there any actual weapon crafting materials much like the aforementioned laminated steel, serrated blade, etc. for 3.5?
I keep hearing about some resin... but I do not think that would meld with adamantine for the weapon's construction.
Looking for weapon enchants, oils, etc. that beef up the weapon without the expenditure of FEATs.

[bekeleven]

Pretty much this.
Spiked Chain if you can afford the feat.
Any old Martial Reach Weapon otherwise.

Not spiked Chain.

Kaorti Resin (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031014a) Spiked Chain. If you're spending a feat already, spend it on the best weapon you can get. It'll cost extra, but that's the price for awesome.

[Gavinfoxx]

Exotic Weapon Proficiency:
Spiked Chain
Martial Weapon Proficiency:
Greatsword, Falchion, Great Scimitar, Spiked Chain, Guisarme, Duom, Exercutioner's Mace, Heavy Spiked Shield
Simple Weapon Proficiency:
Morningstar, Heavy Sickle, Longspear, Fauchard.

I don't particularly like Kaorti Resin, personally...

I like materials like:
Adamantine
Baatorian Green Steel
Aurorum

[Caligstro Smith]

Is Dragon Magazine okay? That is in 3.5. Some DMs won't approve it, but it's worth checking.

If Dragon Mag is okay and you're already are taking at least 1 level of fighter, you could take Exoticist variant fighter instead and trade all your martial weapon proficiencies for 4 exotic weapon proficiencies of choice, which is definitely worth it. You could snag your Spiked Chain proficiency that way.

Regarding materials: Adamantine, Kaorti Resin (although GOOD LUCK getting a weapon made of that stuff), and Heavy weapons (made of Alchemical Platinum or Gold; Magic of Faerun) are worth considering.

Kaorti resin changes the critical multiplier to x4 with no other changes to weapon stats, and Heavy weapons see a increase in base weapon damage based on a chart.

Note: Taking Heavy weapon on a weapon that's already exotic is going to cost you a 2nd exotic weapon proficiency feat, but with Exoticist that's nbd anyway!


Also, regarding the issue of "but that's 3.0:" anything from 3.0 that wasn't explicitly updated gets grandfathered into 3.5. But if your DM isn't using that rule then there's nothing to be done there I guess.

[Red Fel]

You also mentioned enhancements. If overcoming DR is your goal, Metalline and Transmuting are excellent choices. Both are +2; the former, as a standard action, changes its metal type to any of the classic DR-overcoming metals; the latter, one round after striking an enemy with DR, takes on whatever property/ies are needed to overcome all of that enemy's DRs.

The former is great when you're going up against an enemy or group of enemies with a known metal allergy (e.g. DR/cold iron). The standard action activation isn't as bad if you have time before combat to prepare. But it's useless against DRs which require something other than a special metal.

The latter is superb when you don't know your enemy's DR, or when you don't have time to prepare, or when they have DR to something other than metal (e.g. DR/good). The catch to Transmuting, however, is that it switches as soon as you strike another opponent. Thus, if facing multiple opponents with different DRs, you've got to focus your fire or you lose out.

[Manly Man]

If you're not entirely set on the spiked chain and/or reach weapons, there's the Executioner's mace. You get a 2d6 weapon with x3 crit, and can choose to do either bludgeoning+piercing or bludgeoning+slashing (basically a two-handed morning star with a big axe blade on one end). Have it made of cold iron and tempered with Oerthblood to cover two of the big three material issues, as well as nab a couple of extra boni (the Oerthblood makes your treat the weapon as adamantine, and gives you a +1 luck bonus on to-hit and damage, or somesuch).

[Alabenson]

Monk's unarmed strikes are not 2-handed weapons, as the OP specified.

I just had a thought; what if you wielded the Monk himself as a two-handed weapon?

[Red Fel]

I just had a thought; what if you wielded the Monk himself as a two-handed weapon?

Is this where we make the "I can't take Gnome as a Weapon Proficiency" jokes?

[bekeleven]

Is this where we make the "I can't take Gnome as a Weapon Proficiency" jokes?
I think those mostly came from Fling Ally, but same difference.

[herrhauptmann]

If you're not entirely set on the spiked chain and/or reach weapons, there's the Executioner's mace. You get a 2d6 weapon with x3 crit, and can choose to do either bludgeoning+piercing or bludgeoning+slashing (basically a two-handed morning star with a big axe blade on one end). Have it made of cold iron and tempered with Oerthblood to cover two of the big three material issues, as well as nab a couple of extra boni (the Oerthblood makes your treat the weapon as adamantine, and gives you a +1 luck bonus on to-hit and damage, or somesuch).

What does Oerthblood do exactly, and which books is it in?

+1 to Executioners Mace (dungeon magazine135).
You could get it morphing if you think you're going to need reach weapons at some point.

I've been wanting to make a character wielding a morphing/metalline executioners mace, that is normally made of Aurorum. (Didn't remember transmuting until now)
With a knowledge check, you can do pretty much any damage you need. And if it gets sundered, it reverts to aurorum. At which point you just need a standard action to reattach the pieces and restore the magic.

[Fax Celestis]

I'm a fan of dragonsplits, also from MMIV.

[Manly Man]

What does Oerthblood do exactly, and which books is it in?

+1 to Executioners Mace (dungeon magazine135).
You could get it morphing if you think you're going to need reach weapons at some point.

I've been wanting to make a character wielding a morphing/metalline executioners mace, that is normally made of Aurorum. (Didn't remember transmuting until now)
With a knowledge check, you can do pretty much any damage you need. And if it gets sundered, it reverts to aurorum. At which point you just need a standard action to reattach the pieces and restore the magic.

It's in Dragon 351. Items that have been "Oerthblooded" require 25% less time and XP to enchant, they can be re-enchanted with different effects by spending 10% of the total XP cost of the item, and weapons, armor, and shields all can hold up to +12 in enchantment, with a +6 maximum enhancement bonus. Their hardness is doubled (I usually simplify this and just say it's treated like adamantine), and they get 1.5 times the hit points of a normal item. They're also all masterwork items.

Weapons get a +1 luck bonus on to-hit and damage rolls, and targets who take damage from them get a -1 penalty on saves vs. magical effects for one round that stacks with each hit. Light armor gets DR 1/- and a +1 luck bonus on all saves vs. magical effects, medium armor is DR 2/- and +2, and heavy armor is DR 3/- and +3.

Ammunition: +150 gp.
Light armor: +10,000 gp.
Medium armor: +20,000 gp.
Heavy armor: +30,000 gp.
Weapons: +6,000 gp.

[herrhauptmann]

That is one of the greatest materials around. I think it's better than Evil Outsider Drool.

OP: Take Oerth-blooded. (It's on page 45 if you don't want to search and DM requires you to show him)
It's probably one of the best around. Use it for your armor too.

[russdm]

Is this where we make the "I can't take Gnome as a Weapon Proficiency" jokes?

Of course, thats the only good uses of gnomes there are.

To OP: You should pick up a weapon that fits the character more than how much damage it does. I would suggest atleast some kind of reach weapon, such as a gnome tied to a ten foot pole. Or perhaps one of the expoding goblin poles (ten foot pole with a goblin with a kobold bomb or alchemist's fire). If you spent a feat to get monkey grip, you could wield a large greatsword, which would be cool looking. You would be able to seriously make any kind of enemy pause to look at you simple terror with your big frakking sword. Instead of 2d6 it does 3d6 and are wielding a weapon more likely to be carried by an ogre or a giant.

[chronomatophobe]

As written, the Talenta Sharrash or whatever it's called is the best melee weapon in 3.5. It's from the Eberron campaign setting.

The errata went and ruined a beautiful thing. ):

[JungleChicken]

Always been a big fan of the heavy flail

[JungleChicken]

As written, the Talenta Sharrash or whatever it's called is the best melee weapon in 3.5. It's from the Eberron campaign setting.

The errata went and ruined a beautiful thing. ):

It was necessary.

[chronomatophobe]

It was necessary.

I know, but I'm still grieving.

[herrhauptmann]

you could wield a large greatsword, which would be cool looking. You would be able to seriously make any kind of enemy pause to look at you simple terror with your big frakking sword. Instead of 2d6 it does 3d6 and are wielding a weapon more likely to be carried by an ogre or a giant.
Make it out of gold/platinum (MoF, as stated) for even more damage. Huge damage, Large Size, Medium Wielder.

As written, the Talenta Sharrash or whatever it's called is the best melee weapon in 3.5. It's from the Eberron campaign setting.

The errata went and ruined a beautiful thing. ):
Was there a typo on the Sharrash that had to get fixed, like 1d43 damage on a whip?

[Captnq]

Well, try my Weapon Handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9053.msg183871#msg183871)

That said...

Simple:
CROSSBOW BAYONET, SWORD/1d6/1d8/x3
LONGBOW, ELVENCRAFT/1d4/1d4/1d6/1d6/x2
LONGSPEAR/1d6/1d8/x3
QUARTERSTAFF/1d4/1d4/1d6/1d6/x2
SPEAR/1d6/1d8/x3


Mostly useless. You have all martial weapons so there is no need to limit yourself to a simple weapon. If you plan on using a crossbow, get the crossbow bayonet cause it can't hurt. A longbow, get the elvencraft.

Martial:

CLUB, HURL/1d8/1d10/x2
ETHERBLADE/1d8/1d10/x3
FALCHION/1d6/2d4/18-20/x2
FLAIL, HEAVY/1d8/1d10/19-20/x2
GLAIVE/1d8/1d10/x3
GREATAXE/1d10/1d12/x3
GREATCLUB/1d8/1d10/x2
GREATSWORD/1d10/2d6/19-20/x2
GUISARME/1d6/2d4/x3
HALBERD/1d8/1d10/x3
LANCE/1d6/1d8/x3
LANCE, FLIGHT/1d6/1d8/x3
LUCERNE HAMMER/1d6/2d4/x4
NAGAMAKI/1d6/2d4/x3
NAGINATA/1d8/1d10/x3
RANSEUR/1d6/2d4/x3
RIPPER/1d10/2d6/19-20/x2
SCYTHE/1d6/2d4/x4


Why bother with a martial? Well, you don't have to blow a feat. Lets face facts, the exotic weapon feat gets you an average +1 damage. That's it. Sometimes a few come with really cool perks, but for the most part, it's +1 damage. Or you could take power attack. You know your build better then I.

Martial Two Hand 2d6/1d12:
Greatsword, Greataxe, Ripper are your standard barbarian raging weapons. No need for extra feats, high damage, no bells and whistles. I’d go with the greatsword, simply because if you build up any feats around it, you are far more likely to come across magical greatsword, but the axe is a nice choice as well.

Martial Two Hand 1d10:
If you lower the damage slightly, you have some other options. Bobby the barbarian aside, the greatclub isn’t that impressive, having no bells or whistles. If you are going this route, buy a hurl club and use the chain to pull your weapon back after you throw it. If you never plan on upgrading, get an etherblade. 50 charges of force damage might come in handy.

However, your two best choices are glaive for the reach, or halberd so you can set and trip.

Exotic:

ANKUS/1d6/2d4/x2
AXE, ORC DOUBLE/1d6/1d6/1d8/1d8/x3
BATTLEHORN/1d6/1d6/1d8/1d8/x3
CHAIN/1d4/1d4/1d6/1d6/x2
CHAIN, DROW SCORPION/1d4/1d6/19-20/x2
CHAIN, SPIKED/1d6/2d4/x2
CHIJIRIKI/1d4/1d3/1d6/1d4/x2
DUOM/1d6/1d8/x3
FALCHION, GREAT/1d8/1d12/18-20/x2
FLAIL, DIRE/1d6/1d6/1d8/1d8/x2
FULLBLADE/2d6/2d8/19-20/x2
GOAD/1d6/2d4/x2
GREATHAMMER/1d10/1d12/19-20/x4
GREATHAMMER, GOLIATH/1d10/1d12/x4
GREATPICK/1d8/1d10/x4
GREATSPEAR/1d10/2d6/x3
GREATSWORD, MERCURIAL/1d10/2d6/x4
GYRSPIKE/1d6/1d6/1d8/1d8/18-20/x2
GYTHKA/1d8/1d8/1d10/1d10/x2
HAMMER, DOUBLE/1d6/1d6/1d8/1d8/x3
HAMMER, GNOME HOOKED/1d6/1d4/1d8/1d6/x3/x4
HARPOON, KUO-TOAN/1d8/1d10/x2
JOVAR/2d4/2d6/18-20/x2
KHOPESH, DOUBLE/1d4/1d4/1d6/1d6/18-20/x2
LAJATANG/1d6/1d6/1d8/1d8/x2
LONGAXE/1d10/1d12/x3
LONGSTAFF/1d4/1d4/1d6/1d6/x2
LYNXPAW/1d4/1d3/1d6/1d4/18-20/x2 or x3
MACE, DOUBLE/1d6/1d6/1d8/1d8/x2
MANCATCHER/1d3/1d4/x2
MANTI/1d6/1d8/x3
MAQUAHUITL/1d10/1d12/19-20/x4
NOTBORA/1d8/1d8/1d10/1d10/x2 or 19-20/x2
POLE, ENTANGLING/1d3/1d4/x2
POLE, GRASPING/1d3/1d4/x2
POLEAXE, HEAVY/1d10/2d6/x3
RAMHAMMER/1d8/1d10/x2
SANG KAUW/1d6/1d8/1d8/1d10/x3
SASUMATA/1d3/1d4/x2
SCIMITAR, DOUBLE/1d6/1d6/1d8/1d8/18-20/x2
SCIMITAR, VALENAR DOUBLE/1d4/1d4/1d6/1d6/18-20/x2
SCISSORS SWORD/2d6/2d8/19-20/x2
SHARKTOOTH STAFF/1d10/2d6/x2
SHARRASH, TALENTA/1d8/1d10/19-20/x2
SHIKOMI-ZUE/1d4/1d4/1d6/1d6/1d6/1d8/x2/x2/x3
SHORTSPEAR, SALAMANDER/1d10/2d6/x2
SNAKE CHAIN/1d4/1d4/1d6/1d6/x2
SNAP-TONG/1d8/1d10/x2
SODEGARAMI/1d3/1d4/x2
SPADE, MONK’S/1d6/1d6/1d8/1d8/x2/x3
SPEAR, DWARVEN DOUBLE/1d6/1d6/1d8/1d8/x3
STAFF, PINCER/1d8/1d10/x2
SUGLIIN/2d6/2d8/x2
SWORD, ELVEN COURTBLADE/1d8/1d10/18-20/x2
SWORD, TWO-BLADED/1d6/1d6/1d8/1d8/19-20/x2
TANGAT, TALENTA/1d8/1d10/19-20/x2
THREE-SECTION STAFF/1d6/1d8/x3
URGROSH, DWARVEN/1d6/1d4/1d8/1d6/x3
WARPIKE, DWARVEN/1d8/2d6/x3
ZULAAT/1d6/1d6/2d4/2d4/x3


Now, you might think about going with an exotic weapon. Now, don’t get me wrong, but is a whole feat worth a mere +1 average damage? There are some exotic weapons that give you great crit ranges and spiked chain gives you range. Those weapons aren’t best for a charging/pouncing type. The point of a two-handed weapon is to run up to someone and hack them to bits. So, that leaves us with Greatsword and Fullblade as our top two choices.

First we're going to start off with a standard greatsword. We are selecting it because it has good damage, is slashing, which opens up certain avenues later, and is a martial weapon, so you don't have to waste a feat on it. Add gloryborn so you have a +1 damage while charging, then make it out of Baatorian Green Steel. Yes, getting Baatorian Green Steel into Heaven so you can have an angel craft you a Gloryborn Greatsword will be a little tricky, but we're talking about the best you can make, and I'm sure you quest for it.

Or, if you want to blow an exotic Weapon feat, I would recommend a Gloryborn Gold Fullblade. Now, contrary to popular belief, you don't need two exotic feats. You get the exotic weapon feat (Gold Fullblade) which means you cannot use normal fullblades, only gold ones. Now, a Gold Fullblade should turn out to be a 2d10, which is a respectable amount of damage. However, math-wise, it's still only an average +2 damage over the Baatorian Green Steel Greatsword. If you consider the cost of the feat, it really isn't that good of a deal. Still, if you like overkill, you could do worse.

Of course there's a reason for the Bigger Exotic weapon, and that's if you plan on using the WSA balanced or Monkey Grip. The Greatsword becomes 3d6, whereas the Gold Fullblade becomes 4d8. A difference of an average damage of 11.5 vs 18. Now a swing of 6 points is worth considering. You need to tailor your weapon to the direction you wish to go with your barbarian. As a side note, a Gloryborn Gold Fullblade has got to be the ultimate Bling Weapon.

So, the Base Masterwork (300), Gloryborn (1,500), Baatorian Green Steel (1,000), Greatsword (50) is 2,850 gp
The base Masterwork (300), Gloryborn, (1,500) Gold (7,000) Fullblade (100) is 8,900 gp.


Since I have no other details of your build, I leave the focus on the WSAs up to you. However, if you intend of raging...

We need a base +1 EB
Berserker [+1 bonus] - This gives us +1d8 damage while raging.
Brash [+1 bonus] - This adds +3 rounds of rage and makes you immune to fear
Fury [+1 bonus] - This adds a +1d6 while raging.
Jumping [13,750 gp] - This gives us an untyped +30 bonus to jumping every other round and continuous feather fall.

These are the standard WSAs. All good choices for a barbarian Weapon. However, if you have a DM who is willing to allow you to extrapolate from existing weapons, there are a few more to add.

The Axe of Anger allows us to extrapolate the WSA Angry. This is a +1 bonus for +2 rounds of rage and unlimited jump height. This can be very useful when pouncing.
The Halberd of Vaulting allows us to figure out that for 12,000 gp, you can add +30 to your jump, ignore the maximums for jumping distance, and double damage if you jump more then five feet into the air when you attack. This would stack with the jumping WSA, giving you +30 to jump checks, and +60 every other round.
Soldier's Rest gives us the WSA Soldier for 2,500 gp. While holding the weapon, you can ignore the condition of fatigue, which is useful for when the rage wears off.

So the total cost is a +5 bonus and 28,250 gp Put it all together and we have:
Greatsword Version: 81,100 gp
Fullblade Version (Oversized with balance): 109,150 gp


So, what does this give us in total?

+5 rounds to every use of rage
+1d8 +1d6 damage while raging
+60/+30 to jump.
Unlimited height and distance when jumping.
x2 damage when you jump to attack.
Immune to fear
Feather Fall
Ignore fatigue.

So you could long jump a total of 60 feet without trying, or jump straight up 15 feet. Both of these assume you have no skill in jumping, or strength, and roll a 1 on the d20. Now, normally if you wanted to jump say, 70 feet, it would take someone with a movement of 30 feet a round 3 rounds to jump that far. However, with this weapon and no maximums in hight or distance, you can complete it in one round. Which means that, in theory, you could move your full movement, then jump and on a good day jump anywhere from 60 to 90 additional feet. And finally, post rage-fatigue is no longer a concern with Soldier's rest. Truly an impressive weapon. Combine that with the lion totem and you'll be making one of the most impressive pounce charges ever.

However, it's up to you to determine what the DM will and will not allow.

[Gavinfoxx]

Do not under any circumstances take Monkey Grip.

Get the strictly superior version that is a cheap magic item, and doesn't stack with Monkey Grip.

[shaikujin]

Except for the fact that only half of that is true.



Add the lack of special abilities, lack of DR penetration, and the fact that they are on a monk (for starters) and you'd be hard pressed to validate your point. Oh, and a lack of proficiency. EDIT: And by definition cannot be two handed.

Really a longsword in two hands isn't bad, but my recollection of two handed weapons is out of date.

Scorpion Kama allows the 2D10 base damage from monk's fist to be applied to the weapon.

You then make the Scorpion kama from Kaorti resin to get x4 crit damage. Or whatever materials you fancy.

Next give the kama the sizing and morphing properties.


Morph it into a rope dart (dungeon magazine). It has 15 feet reach and can be used on adjacent enemies.

So you have a 2 handed weapon with 15 foot reach, that does 2D10 damage, x4 crit damage, can trip, can finesse, can use on adjacent enemies, slashing/piercing (blunt version is called meteor hammer iirc). Considered a special monk weapon that can be used in flurry.

To see how to increase it to do 12D8 BASE weapon damage, see my signature.

Using 5 dimensions to increase the damage:
1) Monk unarmed damage
2) Virtual size increase
3) Real size increase
4) Apply to Scorpion kama
5) Apply material and magic properties to kama

Also, build has details on how to guarantee crits (and confirm them).


Edit: Rope dart is from dragon magazine, not dungeon. Bok and pg is in the post linked in my signature.

[Gavinfoxx]

Scorpion Kama allows the 2D10 base damage from monk's fist to be applied to the weapon.

The problem with that is you have to be a high level Monk! Though I suppose Tashalatora would work fairly well.

[chronomatophobe]

Was there a typo on the Sharrash that had to get fixed, like 1d43 damage on a whip?

Nothing that obvious, but yes. It just had an 18-20 threat range and x4 crit multiplier. Now it's effectively just a heavy pick.

[shaikujin]

Correct, taking too many monk levels aren't really worth it. Esp since there are other ways such as feats like Tash (+psionic class), carmendine (+2), monk's belt (either +4 or +5?), gauntlet of talon (either +4 or +5? Use the version that specifically stacks with monk's belt), prcs that improves monk damage progression, fist of the forest that increase size progression, battlefist (size progression), greater mighty wallop (spell that increase size progression on monk's blunt fists, which you the apply to the scorpion kama), that ectoplasma fist thingy etc

[Rubik]

Except for the fact that only half of that is true.



Add the lack of special abilities, lack of DR penetration, and the fact that they are on a monk (for starters) and you'd be hard pressed to validate your point. Oh, and a lack of proficiency. EDIT: And by definition cannot be two handed.

Really a longsword in two hands isn't bad, but my recollection of two handed weapons is out of date.Actually... (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15474863#post15474863)

There are lots of ways to get special abilities on an unarmed strike. Penetrating DR is easy. Monks can be serious contenders if they're well-optimized (and note that mine is nowhere near as optimized as I could've made it), and you CAN two-hand an unarmed strike, if you've got a gauntlet or a battlefist. (You just have to use a rule from Savage Species for it.)

[Captnq]

Except for the fact that only half of that is true.
Add the lack of special abilities, lack of DR penetration, and the fact that they are on a monk (for starters) and you'd be hard pressed to validate your point. Oh, and a lack of proficiency. EDIT: And by definition cannot be two handed.

Really a longsword in two hands isn't bad, but my recollection of two handed weapons is out of date.

Use ward cestus if you just want to add WSAs to a monk's attack, or get battle gauntlets and you can make your monk attack one-handed, thus allowing you to attack with two hands.

Between Ward Cestus, Bracers of Striking, Necklace of Natural Weaponry, and greater magic fang, you have a TO of +5 enchancement bonuses and +28 WSAs. And that's assuming you don't enchant the NoNW so you treat each hand and foot seperately. There are a number of defensive WSAs you can stick in your foot that you never have to attack with.

And let's go with that ULTIMATE of WSA cheese, Flying. The WSA turns your weapon into an Animate Object that can make actions on it's own. So you buy it in an NoNW and your body becomes an animate object with a fly speed of 30 that can perform attacks on it's own (On top of your normal attacks), or even transport itself to safety in the advent you are knocked out or killed.

By RAW, I can make a much more interesting "weapon" with a monk's fist then a two-handed weapon. But I digress from the discussion.

[Rubik]

Use ward cestus if you just want to add WSAs to a monk's attack, or get battle gauntlets and you can make your monk attack one-handed, thus allowing you to attack with two hands.

Between Ward Cestus, Bracers of Striking, Necklace of Natural Weaponry, and greater magic fang, you have a TO of +5 enchancement bonuses and +28 WSAs. And that's assuming you don't enchant the NoNW so you treat each hand and foot seperately. There are a number of defensive WSAs you can stick in your foot that you never have to attack with.

And let's go with that ULTIMATE of WSA cheese, Flying. The WSA turns your weapon into an Animate Object that can make actions on it's own. So you buy it in an NoNW and your body becomes an animate object with a fly speed of 30 that can perform attacks on it's own (On top of your normal attacks), or even transport itself to safety in the advent you are knocked out or killed.

By RAW, I can make a much more interesting "weapon" with a monk's fist then a two-handed weapon. But I digress from the discussion.This is pretty much what I did on the build I linked to above. I made my monk's unarmed strike a ranged two-handed piercing/slashing/bludgeoning weapon with a weapon bonus somewhere in the high 30s, hit on a flat-footed touch attack, was virtually undetectable and completely untargetable, and could destroy several enemies on every unarmed strike from hundreds of feet away, all while having so many immunities and a hardness in the high 80s that it was really, REALLY difficult to take on, let alone take down.

[blelliot]

What source is the fury special ability from?

[JaronK]

Kingdoms of Kalamar has the Pike, a martial weapon that has a 15' reach and does 1d8 damage. That's pretty handy. Otherwise, the Guisarme.

JaronK

[herrhauptmann]

Well, try my Weapon Handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9053.msg183871#msg183871)

That said...

Simple:
CROSSBOW BAYONET, SWORD/1d6/1d8/x3
LONGBOW, ELVENCRAFT/1d4/1d4/1d6/1d6/x2
LONGSPEAR/1d6/1d8/x3
QUARTERSTAFF/1d4/1d4/1d6/1d6/x2
SPEAR/1d6/1d8/x3


Mostly useless. You have all martial weapons so there is no need to limit yourself to a simple weapon. If you plan on using a crossbow, get the crossbow bayonet cause it can't hurt. A longbow, get the elvencraft.

Martial:

CLUB, HURL/1d8/1d10/x2
ETHERBLADE/1d8/1d10/x3
FALCHION/1d6/2d4/18-20/x2
FLAIL, HEAVY/1d8/1d10/19-20/x2
GLAIVE/1d8/1d10/x3
GREATAXE/1d10/1d12/x3
GREATCLUB/1d8/1d10/x2
GREATSWORD/1d10/2d6/19-20/x2
GUISARME/1d6/2d4/x3
HALBERD/1d8/1d10/x3
LANCE/1d6/1d8/x3
LANCE, FLIGHT/1d6/1d8/x3
LUCERNE HAMMER/1d6/2d4/x4
NAGAMAKI/1d6/2d4/x3
NAGINATA/1d8/1d10/x3
RANSEUR/1d6/2d4/x3
RIPPER/1d10/2d6/19-20/x2
SCYTHE/1d6/2d4/x4


Why bother with a martial? Well, you don't have to blow a feat. Lets face facts, the exotic weapon feat gets you an average +1 damage. That's it. Sometimes a few come with really cool perks, but for the most part, it's +1 damage. Or you could take power attack. You know your build better then I.

Martial Two Hand 2d6/1d12:
Greatsword, Greataxe, Ripper are your standard barbarian raging weapons. No need for extra feats, high damage, no bells and whistles. I’d go with the greatsword, simply because if you build up any feats around it, you are far more likely to come across magical greatsword, but the axe is a nice choice as well.

Martial Two Hand 1d10:
If you lower the damage slightly, you have some other options. Bobby the barbarian aside, the greatclub isn’t that impressive, having no bells or whistles. If you are going this route, buy a hurl club and use the chain to pull your weapon back after you throw it. If you never plan on upgrading, get an etherblade. 50 charges of force damage might come in handy.

However, your two best choices are glaive for the reach, or halberd so you can set and trip.

Exotic:

ANKUS/1d6/2d4/x2
AXE, ORC DOUBLE/1d6/1d6/1d8/1d8/x3
BATTLEHORN/1d6/1d6/1d8/1d8/x3
CHAIN/1d4/1d4/1d6/1d6/x2
CHAIN, DROW SCORPION/1d4/1d6/19-20/x2
CHAIN, SPIKED/1d6/2d4/x2
CHIJIRIKI/1d4/1d3/1d6/1d4/x2
DUOM/1d6/1d8/x3
FALCHION, GREAT/1d8/1d12/18-20/x2
FLAIL, DIRE/1d6/1d6/1d8/1d8/x2
FULLBLADE/2d6/2d8/19-20/x2
GOAD/1d6/2d4/x2
GREATHAMMER/1d10/1d12/19-20/x4
GREATHAMMER, GOLIATH/1d10/1d12/x4
GREATPICK/1d8/1d10/x4
GREATSPEAR/1d10/2d6/x3
GREATSWORD, MERCURIAL/1d10/2d6/x4
GYRSPIKE/1d6/1d6/1d8/1d8/18-20/x2
GYTHKA/1d8/1d8/1d10/1d10/x2
HAMMER, DOUBLE/1d6/1d6/1d8/1d8/x3
HAMMER, GNOME HOOKED/1d6/1d4/1d8/1d6/x3/x4
HARPOON, KUO-TOAN/1d8/1d10/x2
JOVAR/2d4/2d6/18-20/x2
KHOPESH, DOUBLE/1d4/1d4/1d6/1d6/18-20/x2
LAJATANG/1d6/1d6/1d8/1d8/x2
LONGAXE/1d10/1d12/x3
LONGSTAFF/1d4/1d4/1d6/1d6/x2
LYNXPAW/1d4/1d3/1d6/1d4/18-20/x2 or x3
MACE, DOUBLE/1d6/1d6/1d8/1d8/x2
MANCATCHER/1d3/1d4/x2
MANTI/1d6/1d8/x3
MAQUAHUITL/1d10/1d12/19-20/x4
NOTBORA/1d8/1d8/1d10/1d10/x2 or 19-20/x2
POLE, ENTANGLING/1d3/1d4/x2
POLE, GRASPING/1d3/1d4/x2
POLEAXE, HEAVY/1d10/2d6/x3
RAMHAMMER/1d8/1d10/x2
SANG KAUW/1d6/1d8/1d8/1d10/x3
SASUMATA/1d3/1d4/x2
SCIMITAR, DOUBLE/1d6/1d6/1d8/1d8/18-20/x2
SCIMITAR, VALENAR DOUBLE/1d4/1d4/1d6/1d6/18-20/x2
SCISSORS SWORD/2d6/2d8/19-20/x2
SHARKTOOTH STAFF/1d10/2d6/x2
SHARRASH, TALENTA/1d8/1d10/19-20/x2
SHIKOMI-ZUE/1d4/1d4/1d6/1d6/1d6/1d8/x2/x2/x3
SHORTSPEAR, SALAMANDER/1d10/2d6/x2
SNAKE CHAIN/1d4/1d4/1d6/1d6/x2
SNAP-TONG/1d8/1d10/x2
SODEGARAMI/1d3/1d4/x2
SPADE, MONK’S/1d6/1d6/1d8/1d8/x2/x3
SPEAR, DWARVEN DOUBLE/1d6/1d6/1d8/1d8/x3
STAFF, PINCER/1d8/1d10/x2
SUGLIIN/2d6/2d8/x2
SWORD, ELVEN COURTBLADE/1d8/1d10/18-20/x2
SWORD, TWO-BLADED/1d6/1d6/1d8/1d8/19-20/x2
TANGAT, TALENTA/1d8/1d10/19-20/x2
THREE-SECTION STAFF/1d6/1d8/x3
URGROSH, DWARVEN/1d6/1d4/1d8/1d6/x3
WARPIKE, DWARVEN/1d8/2d6/x3
ZULAAT/1d6/1d6/2d4/2d4/x3


Now, you might think about going with an exotic weapon. Now, don’t get me wrong, but is a whole feat worth a mere +1 average damage? There are some exotic weapons that give you great crit ranges and spiked chain gives you range. Those weapons aren’t best for a charging/pouncing type. The point of a two-handed weapon is to run up to someone and hack them to bits. So, that leaves us with Greatsword and Fullblade as our top two choices.

First we're going to start off with a standard greatsword. We are selecting it because it has good damage, is slashing, which opens up certain avenues later, and is a martial weapon, so you don't have to waste a feat on it. Add gloryborn so you have a +1 damage while charging, then make it out of Baatorian Green Steel. Yes, getting Baatorian Green Steel into Heaven so you can have an angel craft you a Gloryborn Greatsword will be a little tricky, but we're talking about the best you can make, and I'm sure you quest for it.

Or, if you want to blow an exotic Weapon feat, I would recommend a Gloryborn Gold Fullblade. Now, contrary to popular belief, you don't need two exotic feats. You get the exotic weapon feat (Gold Fullblade) which means you cannot use normal fullblades, only gold ones. Now, a Gold Fullblade should turn out to be a 2d10, which is a respectable amount of damage. However, math-wise, it's still only an average +2 damage over the Baatorian Green Steel Greatsword. If you consider the cost of the feat, it really isn't that good of a deal. Still, if you like overkill, you could do worse.

Of course there's a reason for the Bigger Exotic weapon, and that's if you plan on using the WSA balanced or Monkey Grip. The Greatsword becomes 3d6, whereas the Gold Fullblade becomes 4d8. A difference of an average damage of 11.5 vs 18. Now a swing of 6 points is worth considering. You need to tailor your weapon to the direction you wish to go with your barbarian. As a side note, a Gloryborn Gold Fullblade has got to be the ultimate Bling Weapon.

So, the Base Masterwork (300), Gloryborn (1,500), Baatorian Green Steel (1,000), Greatsword (50) is 2,850 gp
The base Masterwork (300), Gloryborn, (1,500) Gold (7,000) Fullblade (100) is 8,900 gp.


Since I have no other details of your build, I leave the focus on the WSAs up to you. However, if you intend of raging...

We need a base +1 EB
Berserker [+1 bonus] - This gives us +1d8 damage while raging.
Brash [+1 bonus] - This adds +3 rounds of rage and makes you immune to fear
Fury [+1 bonus] - This adds a +1d6 while raging.
Jumping [13,750 gp] - This gives us an untyped +30 bonus to jumping every other round and continuous feather fall.

These are the standard WSAs. All good choices for a barbarian Weapon. However, if you have a DM who is willing to allow you to extrapolate from existing weapons, there are a few more to add.

The Axe of Anger allows us to extrapolate the WSA Angry. This is a +1 bonus for +2 rounds of rage and unlimited jump height. This can be very useful when pouncing.
The Halberd of Vaulting allows us to figure out that for 12,000 gp, you can add +30 to your jump, ignore the maximums for jumping distance, and double damage if you jump more then five feet into the air when you attack. This would stack with the jumping WSA, giving you +30 to jump checks, and +60 every other round.
Soldier's Rest gives us the WSA Soldier for 2,500 gp. While holding the weapon, you can ignore the condition of fatigue, which is useful for when the rage wears off.

So the total cost is a +5 bonus and 28,250 gp Put it all together and we have:
Greatsword Version: 81,100 gp
Fullblade Version (Oversized with balance): 109,150 gp


So, what does this give us in total?

+5 rounds to every use of rage
+1d8 +1d6 damage while raging
+60/+30 to jump.
Unlimited height and distance when jumping.
x2 damage when you jump to attack.
Immune to fear
Feather Fall
Ignore fatigue.

So you could long jump a total of 60 feet without trying, or jump straight up 15 feet. Both of these assume you have no skill in jumping, or strength, and roll a 1 on the d20. Now, normally if you wanted to jump say, 70 feet, it would take someone with a movement of 30 feet a round 3 rounds to jump that far. However, with this weapon and no maximums in hight or distance, you can complete it in one round. Which means that, in theory, you could move your full movement, then jump and on a good day jump anywhere from 60 to 90 additional feet. And finally, post rage-fatigue is no longer a concern with Soldier's rest. Truly an impressive weapon. Combine that with the lion totem and you'll be making one of the most impressive pounce charges ever.

However, it's up to you to determine what the DM will and will not allow.
One caveat to all this, never waste an action setting your weapon against a charge.
Just buy Steadfast boots. So long as you've got a 2 hander, your weapon is automatically set against charges (at double damage). And if you've got reach on your opponent, you can also get an AOO when they exit that first threatened square.
There's also a weapon enchantment that does the 'set weapon' thing, but I'm blanking on the name.
Steadfast boots also have other defensive bonuses, so I think they're usually superior to the weapon enchantment.

[Greenish]

Nothing that obvious, but yes. It just had an 18-20 threat range and x4 crit multiplier. Now it's effectively just a heavy pick.It was 19-20/x4.

Anyway, with d10, 19-20/x2, reach and trip, it's still better than most exotic weapons (which isn't saying much).

[Edit]:
There's also a weapon enchantment that does the 'set weapon' thing, but I'm blanking on the name.You may be thinking of Intercepting (FoW), though that doesn't use quite the same mechanics.

[herrhauptmann]

Is FoW an eberron book?
The one I'm thinking of came up recently in another thread (last 2 weeks) +1 cost, same wording on set weapons as the boots.

[Red Fel]

Actually... (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15474863#post15474863)

There are lots of ways to get special abilities on an unarmed strike. Penetrating DR is easy. Monks can be serious contenders if they're well-optimized (and note that mine is nowhere near as optimized as I could've made it), and you CAN two-hand an unarmed strike, if you've got a gauntlet or a battlefist. (You just have to use a rule from Savage Species for it.)

Are we also forgetting the Necklace of Natural Weapons? Pricy, but if you really want to go the unarmed route, there's nothing quite like putting an enhancement bonus (or three) on your fists...

[Greenish]

Is FoW an eberron book?
The one I'm thinking of came up recently in another thread (last 2 weeks) +1 cost, same wording on set weapons as the boots.Yes, Forge of War is an Eberron book (it's about the Last War), and I seem to recall the same thread.

But Intercepting (which is a +1 property) doesn't say anything about treating the weapon as readied against anything. It does give you a free attack (that deals double damage) against enemies who perform certain actions, charging you among them.

[herrhauptmann]

Yes, Forge of War is an Eberron book (it's about the Last War), and I seem to recall the same thread.

But Intercepting (which is a +1 property) doesn't say anything about treating the weapon as readied against anything. It does give you a free attack (that deals double damage) against enemies who perform certain actions, charging you among them.

Looked at it again, yes Intercepting was what I was thinking of. And yeah, I misremembered the effect, pretty badly.
I'd still prefer the boots in most cases though.

[Rubik]

Are we also forgetting the Necklace of Natural Weapons? Pricy, but if you really want to go the unarmed route, there's nothing quite like putting an enhancement bonus (or three) on your fists...The build's tooth of Leraje grants a +5 enhancement bonus to the monk's unarmed strikes for far, FAR less than the necklace.

[Asteron]

Actually monk fists fall behind the infamous minotaur greathammer. With 18-20 crit range and x4 crit damage it's average damage is insane. Combine with Disciple of Dispater for extra critting action.

It is actually 19-20x4... You can only have 17-20 x4.

This is one of the only things I've considered banning. When you crit with it, it tends to make hard encounters trivial.

Also, it doesn't have a listed price. You would have to ask your DM about it.

[Flavel]

Definitely a great axe.

#1 Your a barbarian.

#2 Gives you a chance to actually roll a d12.

[eggynack]

Definitely a great axe.

#1 Your a barbarian.

#2 Gives you a chance to actually roll a d12.
A greataxe is basically the same as a greatsword, except the greataxe is slightly worse. I mean, sure, the distributions are different, which causes the greataxe to be slightly better in corner cases involving damage resistance, but it's not really enough to recommend the greataxe in my estimation. You're basically wielding these weapons solely for the damage factor, so it makes no sense to get a weapon that deals less damage.