[PF] Interesting Rogue Builds?

[Acora]

I will preface this by saying that I've never played a rogue before, so please pardon my ignorance. I'm more used to hitting things with big weapons or filling things full of arrows from far away.

Now, I've recently been invited to a campaign with a group of local players, using premade campaigns. We're starting with Rise of the Ruinlords, and we'll be starting at level one (though he's said that we'll be in this for the long run). I should mention, his character creation guidelines state that we should only use the Core Rulebook (which means none of the fun archetypes, unfortunately) but that we'll be getting two Traits, which will be selected from either the Ultimate Campaign book or the Rise of the Ruin Lords Player Guide.

Now, the party lacked a Rogue (the closest we had was a bard, and I think he's focusing on social skill-monkeying rather than useful skills :smallwink:) so I decided to dive out of my comfort zone and into the world of backstabs and lockpicks.

Now, after looking into rogue builds online, I've come to the conclusion that a duel-wielding rogue using finesse weapons like a rapier and short sword, to get the highest amount of sneak attacks at the highest Attack Bonus per round. While that's an idea I'm holding onto, I don't want to play a typical rogue. I'd much rather be a funloving, good natured mercenary than the standard greedy thief, and I'm of the opinion that characterization extends into the way the character acts in combat, as well. Because of this, I want to find a way to differentiate my character from normal rogues, and so I'm turning to you wonderfully knowledgeable people. Does anyone know any effective and unique rogue builds that I'd be able to try out?

[Ailowynn]

Now, after looking into rogue builds online, I've come to the conclusion that a duel-wielding rogue using finesse weapons like a rapier and short sword, to get the highest amount of sneak attacks at the highest Attack Bonus per round. While that's an idea I'm holding onto, I don't want to play a typical rogue. I'd much rather be a funloving, good natured mercenary than the standard greedy thief, and I'm of the opinion that characterization extends into the way the character acts in combat, as well. Because of this, I want to find a way to differentiate my character from normal rogues, and so I'm turning to you wonderfully knowledgeable people. Does anyone know any effective and unique rogue builds that I'd be able to try out?

Dual-wielding isn't going to get you the highest attack bonus possible. In fact, it'll get you a pretty low bonus to hit and some pretty low damage. Most of your damage dealing will be sneak attack damage, assuming you can get some decent hits in. It can work, though; but it will be feat-heavy.

I might suggest something like a dwarf (for the weapon proficiency) with a warhammer, two-handed build. Not only will this give you high attack and damage, but it will also give you stonecunning, which really helps with searching for traps, and I think a dwarf would go well with the concept you want.

As for executing that concept, I might suggest putting a few extra points into CON and maybe picking up Toughness--which isn't the greatest, but will give you the ability to be more of a frontliner. Focus less on trickery and more on flanking--find a buddy to set up flanks with you, and then you can do sneak attack damage without all that dastardly backstabbing. You could also look at Improved Feint and some ranks in Bluff, since that can get you SA damage when you're by yourself.

[avr]

Getting multiple attacks one way or another is the most effective way to use sneak attack, yes.

With the core rulebook only there's not a lot of room for cunning multiclassing or whatever, especially since you probably want to get Advanced rogue talents - unless you get just one level of rogue for the trapfinding then take another class for combat abilities. Which may not be a bad choice, rogues not being one of the more powerful classes in PF.

Traits have very little effect for a rogue who probably has all the class skills he wants anyway. You could get proficiency in a martial weapon (heirloom weapon), a +2 bonus to initiative, and/or a +1-+2 skill bonus.

[VexingFool]

Using the Core rulebook only really limits the amount of interesting/different options.

I believe the Varisian Tattoo/Tattooed Mystic trait is available in the Rise of the Runelords campaign. This would give you bladed scarf and starknife proficiency both of which are pretty flavorful.

I’ve always wanted to play a bladed scarf rogue or bard. The Runelords players guide also has pocketed and reinforced scarves which can be quite useful to a rogue-type.

The starknives are pretty nice for their increased range increment and also can be dual wielded in melee. You would probably need to carry quite a few with you until you could get a returning one.

If you go dual-wielding I would stick to two of the same light weapon. So 2x shortswords or starknives vs. rapier and shortsword. As was said above your to-hit will be low while dual-wielding so you will probably want to pick up weapon focus either from a feat choice or the weapon training talent.

I am currently running a Rise of the Runelords campaign and I would also suggest that the players try and have all the Knowledge skills covered. The rogue in my campaign is covering knowledge: local and dungeoneering. You might check with the Bard and the other players to make sure at least arcane, history, local and religion are covered. Planes, geography, dungeoneering and nature are also useful. These skills are not vital but do provide some extra info to the players that helps tie the campaign together.

You might check the following guides for some more ideas:

Rogue Eidolon's Guide to the Rogues (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1i9VeolUtnRfxC28JIBPaQWQYs57wEvfq5XtEcOR6C0A/edit?pli=1)

Bravo’s Guide to Knife Fighting Scout (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B703BEBAUgBxazQtQzFGU1g1R2M/edit?pli=1)

Rogue Eidolon’s guide is pretty comprehensive but I don’t agree with some of it, specifically the point buys. He also has some ideas on a Brute rogue if you don’t want to go the standard DEX route. Bravo’s guide is mostly for the scout and knife-fighter archetype but there are some good build ideas that work for rogues in general.

[Grayson01]

I have played a lot of Rogues/Theifs it is my favorite classe and archtype. You can go a lot of different ways with this class. You can go for damage dealer, so setting up flaking and two-weapon fighting with two weapons to set up multiple sneak attacks. This will require the Two-weapon Fighting line and weapon feiness. There is the acrobatic Dare Devil style, maxing out athletis skills and taking talents to match, to perform amaxing tumbling, jumping, climbing feats. (I had a PF Rogue like this who ran in a room with a party memember to save a princess grabbed her jumped out the window tumbled to safty then had the Party Barb throw me back through the window to get back in the fight. Tothe astonishment of the enemy and my stunned teammate who was not in on the plan.) You can go the Steathed Spy/infiltrator who is a master of sneaking into tight secrity strong holds. Uses Gather Info to gather intel about shift changes and rotations, then uses climb, Stealth, Perception and what not to sneak in undetected. There is the party face (but your bard has this covered). You could be more of a Detective type rogue using with to solve and deduce new ways to accomplish the problem at hand.

[magwaaf]

i have a halfling knife master scout (dual archetype love here) rogue that was doing solid damage per hit dual wielding kukris (classiness).

knifemaster lets you palm a blade better and makes all your d6's be d8's

scout lets you sneak attack all the time. charge and sneak attack, then if they arent flanked you roll an acro check to go thru their quare and come out the other side and now you've moved 10 feet and can sneak attack again. its alot of fun and i was a blast before the dm started railroading us and lost interest when we didnt like the railroading lol

[Ravens_cry]

Ninja with two guns could be interesting. Since you are hitting touch, you can take the two rogue (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/rogue-talents/paizo---rogue-talents/powerful-sneak-ex) talents (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/rogue-talents/paizo---rogue-advanced-talents/deadly-sneak-ex)that end up making 1's and 2's equal 3.
Furthermore, since guns are bludgeoning weapons, you can use them for sap adept (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/sap-adept-combat) (if you take Bludgeoner (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/bludgeoner-combat)or make it a merciful weapon), which, for most creatures, is just as devastating as lethal, though it will be less fun if undead are very common.

[Acora]

Ninja with two guns could be interesting. Since you are hitting touch, you can take the two rogue (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/rogue-talents/paizo---rogue-talents/powerful-sneak-ex) talents (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/rogue-talents/paizo---rogue-advanced-talents/deadly-sneak-ex)that end up making 1's and 2's equal 3.
Furthermore, since guns are bludgeoning weapons, you can use them for sap adept (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/sap-adept-combat) (if you take Bludgeoner (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/bludgeoner-combat)or make it a merciful weapon), which, for most creatures, is just as devastating as lethal, though it will be less fun if undead are very common.

God, that sounds really fun. Unfortunately, both Ninjas and guns are in the Advanced Players Guide, I believe.

[Acora]

Using the Core rulebook only really limits the amount of interesting/different options.

I believe the Varisian Tattoo/Tattooed Mystic trait is available in the Rise of the Runelords campaign. This would give you bladed scarf and starknife proficiency both of which are pretty flavorful.

I’ve always wanted to play a bladed scarf rogue or bard. The Runelords players guide also has pocketed and reinforced scarves which can be quite useful to a rogue-type.

The starknives are pretty nice for their increased range increment and also can be dual wielded in melee. You would probably need to carry quite a few with you until you could get a returning one.

If you go dual-wielding I would stick to two of the same light weapon. So 2x shortswords or starknives vs. rapier and shortsword. As was said above your to-hit will be low while dual-wielding so you will probably want to pick up weapon focus either from a feat choice or the weapon training talent.

I am currently running a Rise of the Runelords campaign and I would also suggest that the players try and have all the Knowledge skills covered. The rogue in my campaign is covering knowledge: local and dungeoneering. You might check with the Bard and the other players to make sure at least arcane, history, local and religion are covered. Planes, geography, dungeoneering and nature are also useful. These skills are not vital but do provide some extra info to the players that helps tie the campaign together.

You might check the following guides for some more ideas:

Rogue Eidolon's Guide to the Rogues (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1i9VeolUtnRfxC28JIBPaQWQYs57wEvfq5XtEcOR6C0A/edit?pli=1)

Bravo’s Guide to Knife Fighting Scout (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B703BEBAUgBxazQtQzFGU1g1R2M/edit?pli=1)

Rogue Eidolon’s guide is pretty comprehensive but I don’t agree with some of it, specifically the point buys. He also has some ideas on a Brute rogue if you don’t want to go the standard DEX route. Bravo’s guide is mostly for the scout and knife-fighter archetype but there are some good build ideas that work for rogues in general.

The scarf/starknife idea sounds unique and pretty fun. I'll look into that.

[DrDeth]

If you can at least get the APG, then a 1/2 orc scout is very cool.

Without archetypes, just about the only 'skill monkey" for traps is the rogue. make sure you have a decent CON, get Toughness as one of your first feats.

I have found the main problem with a rogue is that even when he gets into primo flanking and delivers a nasty Sneak atatck, the next round the monster just Full attacks him into jam.

Take a trait that adds +1 to your Fort save.