[3.5] Brainstorming for House Rule: Passive Ability Checks

[Maginomicon]

In my regular D&D 3.5 campaign, I'm considering using "Passive Ability Checks". They're a lot like the passive Perception and Insight values in 4e, except that only I as GM keep track of them. Rather than limit the player outright, passive ability checks limit what I should automatically tell or allow the player without anyone making a roll (that is, I wouldn't even make a roll using their modifier). I already use a number of other kinds of passive checks (Spot, Listen, Sense Motive, Knowledge, Spellcraft, Psicraft, and Saves), and passive ability checks are a natural extension of that (if they ask or actively attempt to do something, then that's not a passive check but an active one, and so they'd roll as normal).

What I have so far in a nutshell:

Passive Intelligence: If it beats the situational DC, I tell the player some hints about a puzzle or other confounding situation that their character would be able to intuit on sight.
Passive Wisdom: If it beats the situational DC, I tell the player that what they're about to do is something their character would know is an incredibly stupid idea (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzOvTavIn40).


What I want to know is:
I'm looking for ideas for what could be "passive" with ability scores, especially Charisma.

What I don't want to hear is:
How passive ability scores (or passive anything in D&D 3.5) are wrong/unfair/unbalanced. The character should be able to "just do" something without making a roll, and those things should be character-specific.

[Subaru Kujo]

In my regular D&D 3.5 campaign, I'm considering using "Passive Ability Checks". They're a lot like the passive Perception and Insight values in 4e, except that only I as GM keep track of them. Rather than limit the player outright, passive ability checks limit what I should automatically tell or allow the player without anyone making a roll (that is, I wouldn't even make a roll using their modifier). I already use a number of other kinds of passive checks (Spot, Listen, Sense Motive, Knowledge, Spellcraft, Psicraft, and Saves), and passive ability checks are a natural extension of that (if they ask or actively attempt to do something, then that's not a passive check but an active one, and so they'd roll as normal).

What I have so far in a nutshell:

Passive Intelligence: If it beats the situational DC, I tell the player some hints about a puzzle or other confounding situation that their character would be able to intuit on sight.
Passive Wisdom: If it beats the situational DC, I tell the player that what they're about to do is something their character would know is an incredibly stupid idea (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzOvTavIn40).


What I want to know is:
I'm looking for ideas for what could be "passive" with ability scores, especially Charisma.

What I don't want to hear is:
How passive ability scores (or passive anything in D&D 3.5) are wrong/unfair/unbalanced. The character should be able to "just do" something without making a roll, and those things should be character-specific.
Charisma could be first impressions of an NPC. They meet it, the NPC might be friendlier than normal to a person (though not necessarily hostile to those that don't). Important thing is that it can't be too much in the happy direction. A smile here, a little slap on the back there, but nothing big until the PCs earn it, of course.

[Wyrmhero]

Ability checks in general are hard because for the most part, situations are covered by skill checks instead, and the rest of them are things that players actively engage in, like kicking down doors and so on. However...

Passive Strength, I think, would be similar to the post above, except you use it similar to an Intimidate check - An NPC decides that the character is too muscle-y for them to want to get in a fight with. Perhaps you could also use it if the character wants to move something, to determine whether or not they can actually lift it.
Passive Dexterity can be getting through a crowd of people in a non-serious situation. Admittedly, this is more of a roleplaying aspect, but still.
Passive Wisdom could also let the character possibly remember something that the player has forgotten - After all, just because the player's a bit absent-minded doesn't mean their character is.

Dexterity and Constitution are difficult, since almost every use of them can be covered pretty explicitly by their saves. Catching small items, for instance, would be Reflex, though not a Save. You could argue it's flat Dexterity, but I don't think it would work. The use of Passive Strength could also be covered by Intimidate, but it depends on whether you consider Intimidate to be able to be used passively or not.

They're the only ones I can think of off the top of my head, but again, not too sure how useful they are.

[Maginomicon]

Charisma could be first impressions of an NPC. They meet it, the NPC might be friendlier than normal to a person (though not necessarily hostile to those that don't). Important thing is that it can't be too much in the happy direction. A smile here, a little slap on the back there, but nothing big until the PCs earn it, of course.
Implemented. Thanks. ^_^

Passive Strength, I think, would be similar to the post above, except you use it similar to an Intimidate check - An NPC decides that the character is too muscle-y for them to want to get in a fight with. Perhaps you could also use it if the character wants to move something, to determine whether or not they can actually lift it.
Implemented. Thanks. ^_^

Passive Dexterity can be getting through a crowd of people in a non-serious situation. Admittedly, this is more of a roleplaying aspect, but still.
Could you elaborate on this? (other people are still welcome to suggest alternatives) I'm not seeing how this would ever come into play period.

Passive Wisdom could also let the character possibly remember something that the player has forgotten - After all, just because the player's a bit absent-minded doesn't mean their character is.
Implemented.


Dexterity and Constitution are difficult, since almost every use of them can be covered pretty explicitly by their saves. Catching small items, for instance, would be Reflex, though not a Save. You could argue it's flat Dexterity, but I don't think it would work. The use of Passive Strength could also be covered by Intimidate, but it depends on whether you consider Intimidate to be able to be used passively or not.
Yeah I'm pretty stumped by this as well. I'd really like to be able to use these for something that might come up in play. Passive checks help my players because they allow me to give away information for free. If I am able to point to a player and say "You know _this_ _this_ and _this_", it helps them feel validated for assigning their ability scores the way they did. Undamaged ability scores are two often a minor consideration during play itself, but if a player feels like their strength score makes them more buff and burly, it encourages roleplaying.

[Wyrmhero]

The passive dexterity thing was pretty much just something like this:

DM: Okay, you push your way through the crowds slowly. (checks player's passive dexterity to see how well they do and how much they get pushed and shoved).

It didn't have a gameplay effect as I thought of it, as I said it was just for flavour purposes.