Warhorse as animal companion

[justiceforall]

Hello again playground,

I am trying to build a knightly character who can ride a horse that might last into later levels without immediately dying to the first area effect spell that heads its way, but that character isn't going to be a paladin.

I'm prepared to take four levels or ranger (or other options such as martial prestige classes) to get an animal companion, but I noted that "Warhorse" is not a listed option for druids, even if you use the improved companions list.

Is there any way by RAW I can get a warhorse as an animal companion?

[SolioFebalas]

Take Wild Cohort (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) feat and obtain mount (warhorse as you wish) without diping in ranger.

[Maginomicon]

You might want to look into the "Horseman" fighter variant in Dragon Magazine #310 page 36 or the "Horselord" barbarian variant in Dragon Magazine #338 page 88.

[justiceforall]

What book is wild cohort in?

EDIT: I followed that link, it does not suggest I can use it to gain a warhorse unless I'm missing something.

[SolioFebalas]

It's WotC online material, link above.

[SolioFebalas]

What book is wild cohort in?

EDIT: I followed that link, it does not suggest I can use it to gain a warhorse unless I'm missing something.

Warhorse it's a horse with training. You can start with horse and train it or just buy warhorse and make it you wild cohort.

[Gwendol]

The OP is right, Wild Cohort (and Druid/Ranger AC) does not allow for Warhorse by default. However, you can get a heavy horse this way, and then raise it as a warbeast. Just pay a trainer to make it a warhorse.

Check the Warbeast template in the MMII.

[justiceforall]

I've seen a bunch of threads arguing over whether or not warbeast training can be applied as RAW, but no definitive answer. What do you guys think? Is my GM going to serve me for munchkinism if I try that on?

[Maginomicon]

The OP is right, Wild Cohort (and Druid/Ranger AC) does not allow for Warhorse by default. However, you can get a heavy horse this way, and then raise it as a warbeast. Just pay a trainer to make it a warhorse.

Check the Warbeast template in the MMII.
Might it be possible to use the spellcasting services rules to have Awaken cast on it? I ask because then I have to wonder if it would then gain XP and advance as a character (although it would ultimately be probably taking a share of the party XP).

[Gwendol]

It's another option, but then it is likely better just use it as a regular cohort through Leadership.

[Gwendol]

Common fallacy. To turn a "horse" into a "warhorse", you need to start the selective breeding about ten generations ago. They are physically different breeds. You can train an ordinary horse not to panic in a fight, but that's not the same as actually being a physically bigger animal.

Also, Wild Cohort.

Are you sure? I don't think there is a difference in breed between a heavy horse and a heavy warhorse. More likely a different training/aptitude. On training a warbeast:


Training A Warbeast
A warbeast can be reared and trained just as the base crearure can. If the base creature is a domestic animal, the creature need nor be specially reared, but it must be trained for two months (Handle Animal DC 20) to develop its abilities.
Market Price: The market price of a warbeast is a function of its Hit Dice: 50 gp/HD for a warbeast of 3 HD or less, or 100 gp + 75 gp/HD for one of 4 HD or more.

You can't apply the warbeast template to a heavy warhorse, but you can apply it to a heavy horse. So RAW, you can get your warhorse using Wild Cohort, obtain a heavy horse WC, and train it as a warbeast.

[Feytalist]

Might it be possible to use the spellcasting services rules to have Awaken cast on it? I ask because then I have to wonder if it would then gain XP and advance as a character (although it would ultimately be probably taking a share of the party XP).

Sure, you can cast awaken on it, but then you lose it as an animal companion. An awakened animal is turned into a magical beast, which makes it ineligible for animal companionship. That actually gets called out in the spell description.

[justiceforall]

So RAW, you can get your warhorse using Wild Cohort,

I'm either blind, or its not in there.

Can you please quote from the Wild Cohort feat where I can get a warhorse as opposed to a normal horse.

[Gwendol]

I'm either blind, or its not in there.

Can you please quote from the Wild Cohort feat where I can get a warhorse as opposed to a normal horse.

You're not blind, you can't.

[SolioFebalas]

I remembered another way, buy a standart heavy warhorse for 400gp and at 6th level take a dragon steed feat instead, it like a horse but dragon :smallsmile:, i'am 100% sure he don't afraid fight.

[Maginomicon]

Sure, you can cast awaken on it, but then you lose it as an animal companion. An awakened animal is turned into a magical beast, which makes it ineligible for animal companionship. That actually gets called out in the spell description.

Yeah, but if all you wanted was to have a mount that doesn't die immediately, the animal companion ACF is irrelevant. You awaken it, convince it to join your quest, and if you had pre-awakening already established a rapport, you now have a mount that advances alongside you.

[Gwendol]

I remembered another way, buy a standart heavy warhorse for 400gp and at 6th level take a dragon steed feat instead, it like a horse but dragon :smallsmile:, i'am 100% sure he don't afraid fight.

Yup, that works as well. Problem is the feat is nearly worthless for a non-paladin since the feat does not advance the dragonnel as the PC gains levels, or at least it's not clear:

You gain the service of a dragonnel as a steed. It serves loyally as long as you treat it fairly, much like a cohort.

If you can convince your DM the dragonnel advances like a cohort, then yes.

[Feytalist]

Yeah, but if all you wanted was to have a mount that doesn't die immediately, the animal companion ACF is irrelevant. You awaken it, convince it to join your quest, and if you had pre-awakening already established a rapport, you now have a mount that advances alongside you.

Sure, it certainly is a valid option, it just means that the horse can sod off whenever it feels like it; something an animal companion can't do.

Actually, does it advance by XP? If it does, you just sort-of added another - DM-controlled - character to your group (which soaks up its share of XP and probably treasure, too), and if it doesn't, awaken actually help all that much. Hmm.

[Maginomicon]

Actually, does it advance by XP? If it does, you just sort-of added another - DM-controlled - character to your group (which soaks up its share of XP and probably treasure, too), and if it doesn't, awaken actually help all that much. Hmm.

http://gyazo.com/dd0438f0fd48c977a55db5ea0060b7a4.png

Not exactly a bad idea, especially if it advances class levels. If it takes levels in warlock (heh heh) you have a mount that shoots lasers from its eyes (bezeeow!!).

[Urpriest]

Are you sure? I don't think there is a difference in breed between a heavy horse and a heavy warhorse. More likely a different training/aptitude. On training a warbeast:



You can't apply the warbeast template to a heavy warhorse, but you can apply it to a heavy horse. So RAW, you can get your warhorse using Wild Cohort, obtain a heavy horse WC, and train it as a warbeast.

That's really thoroughly not what that section means, though.

This is all pretty simple if you understand that Warbeast is 3.0, and you read the 3.0 Handle Animal rules. In 3.0, there was a specific set of DCs for rearing and training domestic animals, wild animals, and beasts and the like. Warbeasts are inherently domestic, since (read the template) they've been bred for battle. That section of the template is stating that despite them technically being domestic animals, they are reared and trained as the base creature, so if the warbeast is based on a wild animal then in order to rear and train them you use the DCs and times for a wild animal, as the template goes on to specify. None of those rules even imply that you can use Handle Animal to turn an animal that isn't a warbeast into one that is.

As for animal companions, just get a Heavy Horse. The stats are a little worse, but it's an animal companion, and your bonus tricks can cover for it not being combat-trained.