Populating A Long-Abandoned City

[Palanan]

I have in mind a broad, grassy expanse of earth, rising high above the surrounding plain and gently sloping on all sides, with rugged terrain and rough mountains in the distance all around.

On the great dome of its crown, thickly overgrown with grasses and a few scattered shrubs, lies a jumbled maze of half-sunken walls, broken and eroded, mottled with tough lichens across long-forgotten glyphs.

Cramped depressions still run between some of the walls, leading down to filled stone stairways and pocked with the shadows of long-empty alcoves, gaping mutely above slumped mounds of old rubble and earth, sparsely tufted with stubborn growth.

A cool dry wind stirs through the grasses; a soft chorus of crickets and a lonely katydid are all to be heard.

What lives here?

[ArcturusV]

Sounds like the sort of place a pack of wolves would generally live in.

But definitely a sort of pack predator that would hunt in terrain like that. Depending on your level needs, anything from Wolves to Dinosaurs.

Stretching the idea of "Lives", various ghosts may also make sense, depending of course on how this city was left abandoned. If it was some titanic siege/battle that sundered it from the land and decimated most of it's population, having haunting going on there would be a good idea, and quite fitting.

Though if there was a major haunting, probably wouldn't be anything like wolf packs in the area. Animals tend to be decent on the Wisdom and less likely to live next to the undead.

[aeauseth]

Some campaign background would be helpful... Why is it Long-Abandoned? Why was there a city here? What race inhabited the city? Long-forgotten glyphs suggest underlying magic, who put those glyphs there and why?

Answering these background questions should give you ideas on what types of creatures to populate your abandoned city with, if anything.

By abandoned, I presume that means no humanoids currently inhabit the city. That would suggest undead/incorporeal, small animals, or perhaps a solitary magical beast.

One idea would be a fallen maze of a lone Minotaur.

Another might roughly follow a plot from Star Trek Next Generation: A powerful being destroyed the cities inhabitents in a fit of rage (make up a reason) and lives here deluiding himself that the city is still intact. Perhaps illusions of city dewllers and/or his wife pop-up occasionally. Make them ghosts instead of illusions. Widened Earthquake (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/earthquake.htm) spell (Epic Earthquake)?

[TheifofZ]

Depends heavily on the level of the party, the theme of the campaign, and what ruined the city. Also ask yourself why the party is heading into the ruins anyway?

At lower levels you could probably throw things like Alips, Skeletons, Wolves, Goblins, various Giant (Small sized) vermin, or a small herd of grazing animals using the ruins as cover.
At mid level a sudden minotaur or two wouldn't be unfair, and giants, ogre magi, dinosaurs, Wights, Mummies, or a large pack of Dire Wolves could easily roam the ruins.

At higher levels, having a Lich, larger giants, Golems, or similar lurking around in the ruins would be very viable.

[Phelix-Mu]

Ruin Chanters and Ruin Elementals are pretty cool. I'd also think some kinds of nature fey may have reoccupied the area, symbolizing the process of nature taking over.

Consider spirits of the past, as well. The various Haunts introduced in MM5 could be used to connect the present to the distant past, instilling a sense of mystery and loss. Other, more malignant undead may lurk as well.

A big factor is how the city ended. Peaceful wasting away as populations moved to other places. Sudden cataclysm. Relentless war. These will all influence the psychic and magical energies likely to be residual, even after many centuries of decay.

I second the call for animals. Like the fey, they will add a sense of the bizarre to the place. Desolate main street with caved in walls covered with vines, as deer nibble on wildflowers, oblivious to the presence of humanoids. Half-collapsed basements filled with mushrooms and lichen growing on mouldering mounds of organic material, bats huddled in the shadowy nooks.

Finally, consider what parts of the city are more extant than others. A big part of exploring a new locale is to detect signs of previous use, evidence of civilization, clues as to what happened to bring it all to an end. Think of archeological sites; maybe there are some half-visible murals or hieroglyphs in the ruins of the temple. Maybe there are some tombs that were somehow protected from the ravages of time, perhaps with magic, names or features still legible. Maybe there is a Chamber of Mazarbul (spelling), a la Lord of the Rings, where a valiant last stand was made long-ago, by those seeking to reclaim the city.

Or maybe it's just some non-descript ruins.

Or maybe that's just what you want them to think.:smallcool:

[Tvtyrant]

Spirit of the Land? A ton of Fey who now sun themselves in the ruins?

[lsfreak]

Another angle to take is, why was it abandoned in the first place? Most of the ruined cities I know of were either destroyed completely in war, were abandoned after they no longer had the population to maintain the infrastructure (empire collapses and the food supplies run out, famine hits, etc), or were abandoned after other areas became more important (population relocation). Being fantasy, there are other options as well: destroyed by dragon, accident when making a new spell, portals to the realm of malevolent fey opened up, they angered the god of growth and were cursed to decay instead, etc. Figuring this out would be a different way of deciding what kinds of things live there.

[Palanan]

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions so far. Right now this is just the first glimmer of a setting idea. I wanted to sketch an image and a mood, and see what folks came up with.


Originally Posted by ArcturusV
Stretching the idea of "Lives", various ghosts may also make sense, depending of course on how this city was left abandoned.

For the most part I wanted to avoid the standard-issue undead, but a ghost or two--especially a tormented guardian--might work well enough.


Originally Posted by TheifofZ
At lower levels you could probably throw things like...a small herd of grazing animals using the ruins as cover.

A small herd would work nicely here; I just need something slightly...unusual to be watching the flock.


Originally Posted by Phelix-Mu
Ruin Chanters and Ruin Elementals are pretty cool. I'd also think some kinds of nature fey may have reoccupied the area, symbolizing the process of nature taking over.

Consider spirits of the past, as well. The various Haunts introduced in MM5 could be used to connect the present to the distant past, instilling a sense of mystery and loss.

This is exactly the mood I was going for, and in fact the haunts were one of the first things that occurred to me. I've never used them before, and they may be a bit high-level, but still a really good fit for the mood. Other suggestions along these lines?


Originally Posted by Phelix-Mu
Or maybe it's just some non-descript ruins.

Or maybe that's just what you want them to think.

But of course.

:smallcool:

[ArcturusV]

I was thinking in terms of Ghosts, more like a Haunting rather than an "encounter". Think of the Ghosts rather than being guardians who attack all living things disturbing their site as souls who are trapped in the moments leading up to their deaths. So you'll see things like ghosts marching along walls that are no longer there. Or some who are apparently trying to put out a fire that has long since burned out. Etc. Doing that they become less "monsters" to fight and more story elements that lend clues to the mystery of said ruins.

If it is in fact a mystery.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Wheelers (http://youtu.be/WM0RFE3QGAU)....

[Phelix-Mu]

Hmm, well glad you liked that bit. Let's see.

So, imagine that it's more than just a collection of forlorn haunts, commiserating about the loss of their city. Suppose that the whole area is part of some Ethereal Plane phenomena. A kind of gravity-well on the Ethereal. Spirits from miles around have been sucked in and trapped here for ages, and gradually been driven mad and now look just like lost residents of the ancient city.

Some creature, maybe the source of the phenomena, or just an opportunist exploiting the torment of the lost souls, now lurks in the border of the Ethereal, phasing back and forth, hoping to kill more souls, trapping yet more victims in the misty limbo of the Ethereal. It could be a demon, some random Ethereal creature, or some kind of mutant abomination from the past. Phantom Souleater Illithid? Perhaps a rogue ethergaunt that has developed a taste for torment, or a mental variant of Body Leech?

Anyway, back to the phenomena. The major manifestations could be varied, but I'm thinking start subtle. Each night the party spends in the greater region, randomly select a pc. That PC seems to sleep normally. But, in fact, they suffer a horrific out-of-body experience of some kind, or maybe sleep-paralysis while totally alert. While in the trance/dream state, the person hears/sees the many spirits in torment, floating around.

As dawn or their turn at watch approaches, they must make some kind of Will save or a Wisdom-check, or forget the whole experience. After the second time anyone suffers the event, they become insomniac, and can't sleep for 1dwhatever days.

This represents the mind being temporarily trapped by the phenomena, as well as the subconscious of the target sensing the psychic pain of the spirits.

So, let's see. I'd use one of the mini-ghost templates from Ghostwalk (eidolon? can't quite recall what they were called) to represent the spirits. Make them all manner of beings, in various states of psychic decay, represented by penalties to their mental stats.

The Phantom template or the Vivacious Creature template can be thrown around if you need more justification for incorporeal/ethereal stuff, just restyle them to dwell on the ethereal and have limited shifting ability.

Finally, I think something along these lines will form a nice counterpoint to the deserted oasis populated by wild animals, surrounded by silence and peace. The truth is, the screams are silent, and the prisoners are invisible.

EDIT: OMG, they have Return to Oz on Youtube. WHY DIDN'T I THINK TO LOOK THERE? Thanks, Furiou, I've been searching for that movie on-and-off for years now. Never managed to see the whole thing, and it's been bothering me like crazy (as a confirmed fan of the writings/crazed ramblings of L. Frank Baum).

[Pokonic]

There's always the chance to add a Bugbear, or perhapes a stony Troll.

But don't call them that.

The PC's might see a large shape looking at the herds of sheep, waiting patiently. Not hostile, not unfriendly, just...watching.

A great boulder might be moved, or a chunk of clay might be thrown off a old rooftop. The party hears large footsteps, followed by a shifting, quaking sound, and then nothing.

A animal trap, already triggered and with a small goat inside, lies in the middle of a street. The trap is deep in the stone, and it seems like the nails that connect the ropes to the ground are so old and big that no human with a hammer could have struck them so deep into the ground.

When the party notices that, something moves in the hollowed out reminents of a building.

[unseenmage]

Wheelers (http://youtu.be/WM0RFE3QGAU)....

Not even funny man. Those things still give my wife nightmares.
We still havn't let our kids watch that movie as she's convinced it'll scar their little minds too.

How would you even represent them? The Symbiotic template bonding a humanoid to an Animated Object?

[Humble Master]

A city overgrown? Might throw some shambling bounds or other plant creatures and Splinterwaifts (Monster Manual 3) in there. Bugbears, Hobgoblins, Orc ect. could work too. Might even make them a bunch of pagan psychos who worship an especially big shambling mound as a god and appease it with sacrifices.

[Phelix-Mu]

Raggamufyns of doom? Hmm. That right there is a cool concept. Kind of like skynet + cybernetics gone wrong. Maybe model some of it off that half-golem template and it's madness effect. I actually have a kind of living metal in my world that might dovetail nicely with that kind of setup.

Awesome brainstorming here.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Biffoniacus_Furiou
Wheelers....

Never heard of them, and I haven't seen that movie, so no idea what these are. Is this just silliness, or something far worse?


Originally Posted by Phelix-Mu
I'd use one of the mini-ghost templates from Ghostwalk.... Make them all manner of beings, in various states of psychic decay, represented by penalties to their mental stats.

I haven't looked at Ghostwalk in ages, but slow ethereal dissolution is perfect here.


Originally Posted by Phelix-Mu
I think something along these lines will form a nice counterpoint to the deserted oasis populated by wild animals, surrounded by silence and peace. The truth is, the screams are silent, and the prisoners are invisible.

I like this approach, and it dovetails nicely with some other aspects I was thinking of. Peaceful and creepy at once.


Originally Posted by Pokonic
The PC's might see a large shape looking at the herds of sheep, waiting patiently. Not hostile, not unfriendly, just...watching.

I'm thinking a minotaur herdsman would work well here. Less aggressive and destructive than most of his kind; more of a pensive loner type.


Originally Posted by Humble Master
A city overgrown? Might throw some...Splinterwaifts (Monster Manual 3) in there.

Ahh, splinterwaifs. Very good, yes.


Originally Posted by Phelix-Mu
Raggamufyns of doom? Hmm. That right there is a cool concept. Kind of like skynet + cybernetics gone wrong. Maybe model some of it off that half-golem template and it's madness effect. I actually have a kind of living metal in my world that might dovetail nicely with that kind of setup.

...Wha-? --But, --wait... bu--what?



*shower of sparks from brain*

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Never heard of them, and I haven't seen that movie, so no idea what these are. Is this just silliness, or something far worse?

If you'd seen Return to Oz as a child, they were the most terrifying antagonists you wish you could forget. They came straight from L. Frank Baum (1856-1919), a very famous author of children's fantasy novels. Example:


Not even funny man. Those things still give my wife nightmares.
We still havn't let our kids watch that movie as she's convinced it'll scar their little minds too.

Edit: Just to point out, Wheelers and the works of L. Frank Baum may look like silliness, but one thing to remember is that this stuff was written when the fantasy genre was a fairly new frontier. It predates the works of Tolkien and others who established the fantasy norms of elves and dwarves and wizards and dragons that we're all used to. He wrote his works around the same time as H. P. Lovecraft, though Lovecraft's style is far more popular today as Baum's target audience was far younger. Like Lovecraft, Baum's Oz is an old style of fantasy, an unfamiliar one, and introducing an ancient ruined city may call for an older and unfamiliar style of fantasy to populate it.

[Phelix-Mu]

If you'd seen Return to Oz as a child, they were the most terrifying antagonists you wish you could forget. They came straight from L. Frank Baum (1856-1919), a very famous author of children's fantasy novels.

Some of Baum's stuff is pretty hardcore, considering he predates the invention of LSD. The various residents of the many, many more lands than are depicted in the classic movie are often extremely bizarre, both in behavior and, more alarmingly, appearance. The ones with the slinky necks and rotund bodies still stand out in my mind. I read one of his sequel books when I was like 7 or 8, and was deeply impressed by how it was both a moderately cogent story, while also being completely bonkers.

I really should go back and re-read his whole Oz saga. And watch that movie. It's time to go back, kids. *evil laughter*

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Biffoniacus_Furiou
Like Lovecraft, Baum's Oz is an old style of fantasy, an unfamiliar one, and introducing an ancient ruined city may call for an older and unfamiliar style of fantasy to populate it.

Mmm, yes indeed. I like that thought.

Thanks for the background on Baum, I'll have to explore what he wrote. Much as I venerate Tolkien, I'm always interested in the myths and stories that came before him.


Originally Posted by Phelix-Mu
Some of Baum's stuff is pretty hardcore, considering he predates the invention of LSD.

Yoicks.

:smalleek:

[Phelix-Mu]

Edit: Just to point out, Wheelers and the works of L. Frank Baum may look like silliness, but one thing to remember is that this stuff was written when the fantasy genre was a fairly new frontier. It predates the works of Tolkien and others who established the fantasy norms of elves and dwarves and wizards and dragons that we're all used to. He wrote his works around the same time as H. P. Lovecraft, though Lovecraft's style is far more popular today as Baum's target audience was far younger. Like Lovecraft, Baum's Oz is an old style of fantasy, an unfamiliar one, and introducing an ancient ruined city may call for an older and unfamiliar style of fantasy to populate it.

Many of the "fantasy norms" are drawn directly from actual mythology, be it Norse, Welsh, or otherwise. As far as I know, the slinky neck people with bowling ball bodies were pretty much not drawn from any previous cultural heritage. They may have been some kind of allusion to the new mechanical age with the rise of industry and factories, but my memory is pretty fuzzy (aside from their appearance and the plot being rather confusing). I certainly don't claim to be an expert on Baum's work, just in how impressed I was with his work as a child (though not in a strictly good way).

[Kol Korran]

Hmmmm... I'll try putting in some ideas of my little project's thread, lets see:

1) The place is guarded by gargoyoles, but not your D&D "freeze and attack" boring gargoyles, but my rendition of them. Basically more close to the original concept- made creatures, guardians of places concepts and the like, with slightly strange and alien minds. Their main power is not to appear as statues, but rather to "Fade from consciousness"- if you see them, your mind ignores them, unless they move. They have other flavorful antics, like their way of communicating- such as the confdounding and confusing Gargoyle speak of many languages, and other mysteries. I think They could do well to be an unseen guarding force of this long abandoned city, gauging the characters' intent. The odd glimpses that "something is there, something is watching" could be lovely I think.
If you wish to check it out more- part 1 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4351479&postcount=8), part 2 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4351489&postcount=9)

2) Some sort of a partly crazed mystic, perhaps cursed long ago to never leave the city, and have gone insane long ago. It might hold strange answers to stuff, or maybe even have oracular powers and such, and it might be quite difficult to converse with him/ her, get a meaningful answer. Perhaps that could be done by bringing it creative gifts, or perhaps engagin it with some sort of a game, like a card game of cards long gone, or some sort of a board game, or maybe stranger, weirder games? Bring in the strange weird unexplained things here...

3) The maddening Gibber gabber: There is an abomination that stayed from the time the city was consumed- a gigantic mess of writhering flesh (Or a smaller one, depending on level) of eyes, teeth, muttering secrets, always hungry, maddening. I am speaking of a gibbering mouther, but again I suggest a more flavorful version of this piece of insanity: Part 1 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13411526&postcount=68), part 2 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13411717&postcount=69) It could come to be a combat encounter, but I suggest it more as a stalking, harassing, and a very weird social/ negotiation entity to deal with, knowing the doomed city's secrets, as well as maybe the characters? (IIn the post)

Come to think of it, You can probably mix 2 and 3 together.

I'll try to think of more ideas. This sounds like a fun bit of creative fun.

If you want to check more creatures that might fit your idea from my project, check my sig. The hags or serpent lords might fit quite nicely I think.

Good luck!

[unseenmage]

Edit: Just to point out, Wheelers and the works of L. Frank Baum may look like silliness, but one thing to remember is that this stuff was written when the fantasy genre was a fairly new frontier. It predates the works of Tolkien and others who established the fantasy norms of elves and dwarves and wizards and dragons that we're all used to. He wrote his works around the same time as H. P. Lovecraft, though Lovecraft's style is far more popular today as Baum's target audience was far younger. Like Lovecraft, Baum's Oz is an old style of fantasy, an unfamiliar one, and introducing an ancient ruined city may call for an older and unfamiliar style of fantasy to populate it.

Fun fact, at one point in the sequel books you're reading along as your little boy main character protagonist is searching for the lost princess of Oz, Ozma.

And then, kinda out of nowhere, he was the princess all along.

I don't know if it's the first time a fantasy writer made the main character into the little girl but it was certainly my first experience with it.

[TuggyNE]

Fun fact, at one point in the sequel books you're reading along as your little boy main character protagonist is searching for the lost princess of Oz, Ozma.

And then, kinda out of nowhere, he was the princess all along.

I don't know if it's the first time a fantasy writer made the main character into the little girl but it was certainly my first experience with it.

Yeah, that was a nice tomato surprise.

I actually experienced it twice from the same book, because I forgot all about the twist after a few years and then read it again.

[Darrin]

I don't know if it's the first time a fantasy writer made the main character into the little girl but it was certainly my first experience with it.

Reminds me of Henry Darger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Darger), but Baum's influence, which I'm sure was profound, was still a drop in the bucket to whatever kind of mindscrew that guy had going on.

Some WotC articles you may find useful:

The Far Corners of the World: Shadows of Glory -- Spells of the Lost City (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20041022a)

The Far Corners of the World: Shadows of Glory -- Monsters of the Lost City (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20041126a)

The Far Corners of the World: Shadows of Glory -- Magic Items of the Lost City (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20041231a)

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Kol Korran
The place is guarded by gargoyoles...they could do well to be an unseen guarding force of this long abandoned city, gauging the characters' intent. The odd glimpses that "something is there, something is watching" could be lovely I think.

That's very much in line with the mood I was imagining--and I really like your redesigned gargoyles, very cool concept there. Definitely worth including somehow.


Originally Posted by Kol Korran
There is an abomination that stayed from the time the city was consumed.... I am speaking of a gibbering mouther, but again I suggest a more flavorful version of this piece of insanity....

Eeep. You have a deft touch with the creepy, sir. This is a different mood than what I'd been thinking, but very well done, in a disturbing sort of way. I especially like the ooze/aberration duality.




Originally Posted by unseenmage
Fun fact, at one point in the sequel books you're reading along as your little boy main character protagonist is searching for the lost princess of Oz, Ozma.

And then, kinda out of nowhere, he was the princess all along.

Thanks for the major spoiler there. Pretty much ruins the series for those of us who hadn't read it yet.

:smallmad:

[Abolethpaladin]

ghouls and ghasts are always good for old abandoned places, you might also want to add a few wraiths for the old churches. Any other undead would probably fit well, and the good thing about undead is there are a lot of different kinds for all different levels. I also agree with the previous posters in that gargoyles would work really well.

[Lord Vukodlak]

In my own setting there is a desert called the Scared Lands where all the life was simply sucked from the land during the War of The Old ones. Nothing lives there, nothing can grow in the soil, Bodies are long preserved because no insect or grub can ever reach them. Instead they often mummify

The biggest dangers of the scarred lands are Undead and adventurers. When the former Great Kingdom died and became the scarred lands millions of peple died with it so the ruined cities are often overrun by undead.

With an entire kingdom's worth of ruins adventures the world over come there to pillage the ruined cities. Some of the more nefarious ones come to murder their competitors and take their stuff.

[Pokonic]

There's always the "guardian of a sacred place" shtick.

Let's say it's a advanced unicorn with some template (Winged, for instance) or another that dwells within a rather pristine garden in a out-of-the-way corner of the city. Assuming the party has a cleric, it might be a extremely primitive temple to his deity, or, alternativly, it's a site of offerings for the fey or even one of the few places where a long-forgotten god survives in the form of an old place of power. The guardian is old but has kept tabs with the world through a scrying pool, and is generally friendly and helpful to the party. Being one of the few sentinent creatures in the area who was around when the place was still inhabited, the party might be tempted to ask it to explain the mysteries of the place. But they would be wrong to think it would know anything!

The guardian is a foppish and uncaring thing, only dimly remembering the beings that used to walk the streets as the period when they existed was just a blink in it's life. While happy to talk about long and ongoing issues in the world and willing and able to speak about current events that are probably of importance to the PC, the creature itself is uncaring of anything beyond what falls into it's domain, and that includes the city.

Also, it might act in a way that offends some PC's. The sacred site is stocked with anything you might think a mid-sized temple or wizards dwelling might have (magical equiptment, apartments and dwellings still well kept after years of nature taking it's course, scrying and resting chambers, perhaps even a armory), but the guardian might not let, say, the half-orcish party member out of his sight before first talking to him for a few moments, or giving complements to the female PC for taking on a life of adventuring, presumably to avenge some slight of her parents.

[Humble Master]

Some more goodies from Monster Manual 3:
Chelicera: A spider that can mimic any sound it hears? Could be quite dangerous if played correctly...
Ephemeral Swarm: It's a swarm of small undead creatures. Quite creepy when a mob of ghostly kittens comes at you.
Kenku: Bird creatures that live in the dark places of cities and hoard gold.
Redcaps: And you thought fairies were nice little winged pixies. Well this Fey is a small, crotchety, old murderer who dips his hat in your blood.

[unseenmage]

Dragon#309 has the Golem Swarm, a creature absolutely devastating to towns and cities. It'll even peel magic items off of adventurers and destroy them given half a chance.

[Brookshw]

Agreeing with ghosts. I had once wanted to run something with a city doing something foolish with magic that ended up with the people as ghosts repeating parts of their lives to some extent. Throw in some time hoping visions.

Is there more to the city, who lived there and why its abandoned you could offer?