Dig to hell? 3.5e

[damanlyguy]

I'm making a dungeon, and it's built around the idea that the dwarves have dug into hell. Is it possible to dig to Baatar or some other hell, or would this be entirely homebrew? If you CAN dig into Baatar, which layer would it be; if it's some other hell, what is it like?

I've been googling around for the past couple of weeks and found nothing. I would love it if you guys would give me an answer.

[Tim Proctor]

No it isn't possible, because the nine hells are separated from the material by an infinite amount of space on the astral plane or aether or w/e. They can dig into a portal which connects to two, just a slight difference.

[Mcdt2]

No, it would not be possible, just as it would be impossible for us to dig deep enough to reach Alpha Centauri. The Nine Hells are on a different plane of existence- think a completely different dimension.

However, portals (or technically, astral wormholes) occur naturally. It's possible the dwarves could have dug deep into some cavern which has a natural link to Baator or the Abyss, thus causing the formation of a portal. I don't know what you need the dwarves to have dug to hell for, but devils/demons could easily wander out from the portal, and it's also likely that aspects of the layer could leak into the material world, causing it to look like that layer of hell, for example.

[Yuki Akuma]

It is absolutely possible for a natural portal to appear underground and link to an area of Baator that's also underground.

While it's impossible to dig there 'physically', this plot is totally feasible so go for it.

It might be thematically appropriate for the portal to connect to the first layer.

[Security Bear]

Oooh...what about "hell" being coterminous with the Material Plane at a certain point...so that its actually possible to dig your way into hell. Avoids the happenstance of running into a set portal. So...basically, they dug too deep, or however that famous line goes...

Coterminous Planes

Planes that touch at specific points are coterminous. Where they touch, a connection exists, and travelers can leave one reality behind and enter the other.

[TheifofZ]

OP sounds like a Dwarf Fortress player to me.

As the others have said; technically no you can't dig into hell, but you could dig down to a portal connecting to hell, and it's completely plausible to have either a naturally occuring, or long forgotten and ruined temple buried deep underground. Do something fun with it though.

And remember the 0th rule of D&D: You are the DM and you write the rules. If you -really- want to, you could stick the 9 hells inside the planet that the players are on.

If you do it awesomely enough, noone will look too closely at the mechanics and wonder "HOW THE HELL DOES THAT WORK?"

[aeauseth]

You could create a hellish area deep underground on the material plane. This hellish area could contain a portal to the actual hell plane(s). You could give this area the properties and denezins of hell.

[ArcturusV]

Only problem is working around typical DnD cosmology. You can make it work. Just be aware most players expect that it's something like Material-Ethereal-Astral-Elemenental-Outer(Where Hell would be). So you're talking about three or so "layers" that are being skipped.

It's not a problem so long as your players get enough warning about it in the dungeon that it's not a "What the hell?!" moment of confusion. Make sure to drop enough clues that warping between Baator and this Dungeon happens. Signs that the places merged a bit, "survivors" of a sort, appropriate items from Hell being sprinkled through, (on top of the usual imps and such to fight).

[Yuki Akuma]

Only problem is working around typical DnD cosmology. You can make it work. Just be aware most players expect that it's something like Material-Ethereal-Astral-Elemenental-Outer(Where Hell would be). So you're talking about three or so "layers" that are being skipped.

Even in 2e, that's not how it worked - you went from the Material, to the Astral, to the Outer.

To get to the Inner planes, you passed through the Ethereal plane instead.

And in 3.5, none of that applies anymore and you can go straight from any one plane to any other through natural portals and the like.

[aeauseth]

As a DM you are free to change things as you like. You could scrap the whole 3.5 planer/portal aspect of hell and use the Greek Mythology version of Hades (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hades). I seem to recall there was a constantly shifting maze protected by a Minotaur that was a secret exit (or entrance) to hell. The ferryman. The 3 headed dog, etc. You will have to do your own research, perhaps altering the planar aspects into more of an underworld aspect. You could maintain all the other aspects of the 9 hells.

[Seclora]

It is absolutely possible for a natural portal to appear underground and link to an area of Baator that's also underground.

While it's impossible to dig there 'physically', this plot is totally feasible so go for it.

It might be thematically appropriate for the portal to connect to the first layer.

My understanding is that the magics laced into Baator make it impossible for a portal leading from not-Baator into Baator to link to anywhere but the first layer.

Fiendish Codex II, fun stuff.


In any case, I have heard refrences in the past made to underground portals to various outer planes, and while digging directly would be impossible, it is entirely possible, likely even, that you could find an underground portal simply by digging deep enough and long enough. And if there's anything Dwarves are likely to do, it's delve to deep and unearth unspeakable evils.

[Zaq]

Are you the GM? Then sure, the dwarves can dig down to Baator. Doesn't fit the default, but you're the GM. It's your world.

Otherwise, yeah, there could be a portal, or they could dig down to a Baatorian outpost, though not actually Baator itself.

[molten_dragon]

I'm making a dungeon, and it's built around the idea that the dwarves have dug into hell. Is it possible to dig to Baatar or some other hell, or would this be entirely homebrew? If you CAN dig into Baatar, which layer would it be; if it's some other hell, what is it like?

I've been googling around for the past couple of weeks and found nothing. I would love it if you guys would give me an answer.

Well, the nine hells aren't on the same plane of existence as the material plane, so you can't dig into one of them.

However it would be perfectly reasonable for them to dig down and find a portal or gate that leads to hell, either naturally occurring or one that was constructed long ago and forgotten about.

[nedz]

It does kind of sound like the story concerning the whip and sword wielding fire demon.


Only problem is working around typical DnD cosmology. You can make it work. Just be aware most players expect that it's something like Material-Ethereal-Astral-Elemenental-Outer(Where Hell would be). So you're talking about three or so "layers" that are being skipped.

It's not a problem so long as your players get enough warning about it in the dungeon that it's not a "What the hell?!" moment of confusion. Make sure to drop enough clues that warping between Baator and this Dungeon happens. Signs that the places merged a bit, "survivors" of a sort, appropriate items from Hell being sprinkled through, (on top of the usual imps and such to fight).

I wouldn't do this personally. The moment of confusion followed by working out what is happening could well be the best moment in your campaign.

Clues: yes; Spoilers: no.

[unseenmage]

Say they dug down into a layer of magic-permeated ore. This ore has absorbed a lot of deep evil over the millenia and now acts as a transit between the material and the hells.

Viola.

And for the record there are deep deep deep deep (below the Lowerdark) parts of Faerun's Underdark that are said to link directly to the plane of Shadow. (IIRC MotP)

[ArcturusV]

Warning if you do that though... I've known a lot of players who would try to use the Ore to have a portable portal to hell on demand. Which may or may not be a bad thing depending on what you want in the storyline.

[unseenmage]

Warning if you do that though... I've known a lot of players who would try to use the Ore to have a portable portal to hell on demand. Which may or may not be a bad thing depending on what you want in the storyline.

Easy solution here too, the mystical leylines are what really empower the ore. If removed it is cursed and evil and technically extraplanar but no longer a planar link.

[Seclora]

Say they dug down into a layer of magic-permeated ore. This ore has absorbed a lot of deep evil over the millenia and now acts as a transit between the material and the hells.

Viola.

And for the record there are deep deep deep deep (below the Lowerdark) parts of Faerun's Underdark that are said to link directly to the plane of Shadow. (IIRC MotP)

Plane of Shadows isn't an outer plane, it's a coexistant one, like the Ethereal Plane. You don't have to go through the Astral plane to get there.

[unseenmage]

Plane of Shadows isn't an outer plane, it's a coexistant one, like the Ethereal Plane. You don't have to go through the Astral plane to get there.

Knew about that. Didn't mention it as it wasn't relevant.
Simple Plane Shift and Gate ignore coterminous/coexistent vs outer.

As this a DM/story/fiat situation I just didn't see coterminous vs inner vs outer really mattering that much.

Region of Dreams, Plane of Mirrors, Plane Shift, Gate, planar breaches, Planar Shepherd, etc etc. There are just so many RAW mechanical means to bypass the Astral, Shadow, and Ethereal it isn't funny.

[Hyde]

Buffy style Hellmouth. Hell is "beneath" the earth in a metaphorical sense, but still quite its own dimension (plane). crossing the passage between the two is unnoticeable (unless it begins sealed) as if one were walking from a hot cavern to a slightly hotter cavern (at least until they build a school on it).

[Rockphed]

Having screeds scrawled on the walls that either start out as gibberish and get more coherent the further down they go, or the other way around really. The first is the writings of the madmen who escaped the doom at the bottom of the mine. The second is the journal of the miners as they worked their way down, delving too greedily and too deep.

[afroakuma]

Ages ago, a band of greedy dwarves, followers of Abbathor, emptied a vein of most precious gold. Cursing their misfortune at having depleted their store of wealth so soon, they turned to the high priest of the Trove Lord and asked a dark boon of their evil god.

Now Abbathor is a covetous one, and there is nothing he covets more than that which lies just outside his grasp. His realm lay on the Gray Waste of Hades, a miserable and worthless place of soul-sucking depression, and his greedy eyes were cast toward other planes and the natural wealth that they possessed. Though he could not go and steal it away himself, his followers could certainly dig it up for him.

The Great Master of Greed provided to his followers a rite, a dark piece of terrible magic gleaned from the treacherous yugoloths, one which would sink into the earth like a worm and fill the stone with the wealth of Hell. Sacrifices were made and black oaths sworn, and the evil spell was wrought, stabbing into the depths and spreading like a terrible venom. The rock below became thickly veined with a poisonous green, and so the dwarves discovered the valuable baatorian green steel, a substance capable of being worked into weapons sharper than any other.

The dwarves mined away at these new veins, growing fat and rich on the spoils of their dark work. But deep within the earth lurked the magic they had wrought, the worm of Hell that gnawed the earth. As an earthworm tills the soil, so did the spell devour the good rock of this world and leave in its wake the horrid green metal of Baator. At last, when the thing they had conjured had sated itself, it returned to the Hells, leaving behind a rift and causing a calamitous cave-in above that sealed the chasm leading to the dreadful mineral vein.

Once again the green steel has been exposed. Those who dig too deeply into the vein may find the horror below, the open wound in reality that bleeds the taint of devils into mortal realms. But who can resist the lure of wealth?