[PF] Of Rogues and Witches

[IronFist]

Hello, guys.

So, I have two separate issues.

1. One of my players is kind of lost after we converted to Pathfinder. He used to be a Daring Outlaw, then he changed to a provisional Knife Master Rogue. He wants something more solid and more similar to what he did before (two-weapon fighting + sneak attack, using swords). He is 9th level.

2. I want to make a Witch villain for my other game. They will be at level 6 when they meet her. Thing is, the whole reason for using a witch is to get her cooking people and being nasty, so I need her to be at level 10. This limits somewhat the mooks I could use alongside her, since the party's optimization level is quite low and too many mooks could make her too hard, but with no mooks action economy kicks in and she becomes useless. I'm considering a bunch of vanilla orcs. What can I do about this witch, build-wise, as well? She is supposed to be a foreign advisor to a noble in Korvosa (kind of like Melisandre in Game of Thrones).

[Psyren]

1) Why not just port his build to Pathfinder? I would give him Rogue Talents on top of what he gets from Daring Outlaw/Swashbuckler so he appreciates the system more.

2) How about animals and magical beasts as enemies? Then you can make them plausibly be pretty dumb in combat (though still mean) allowing the players to outwit her minions a bit. For example, have them not go after the casters at all unless the casters are the nearest enemies or right after something flashy like a fireball.

[IronFist]

1) Why not just port his build to Pathfinder? I would give him Rogue Talents on top of what he gets from Daring Outlaw/Swashbuckler so he appreciates the system more.
He does not want to do this, for some reason. With some luck the Swashbuckler playtest becomes available soon and he falls in love with it... *shrugs*


2) How about animals and magical beasts as enemies? Then you can make them plausibly be pretty dumb in combat (though still mean) allowing the players to outwit her minions a bit. For example, have them not go after the casters at all unless the casters are the nearest enemies or right after something flashy like a fireball.
That could work, I think. I still have to decide where they are going to fight her.

[Psyren]

He does not want to do this, for some reason. With some luck the Swashbuckler playtest becomes available soon and he falls in love with it... *shrugs*

Well... give his Rogue full BAB and let the abilities work with swords then? Or maybe with Longsword+Short sword only?

Or have him use punch-daggers, those are cool.



That could work, I think. I still have to decide where they are going to fight her.

Haunted forest? Teeming bog? Derelict castle? Witches love that ****.

[Twilightwyrm]

1. It might be helpful to figure out what part specifically he likes about playing a Daring Outlaw? Does he like the extra rogue skills and abilities available to him, or does he simply want to play a swashbuckler, but with some worthwhile class features?

2. I agree Magical Beasts/Animals/Vermin would be a good way to go. A cannibalistic witch with a pack of ravenous wolves at her command would be both thematic, and potentially terrifying.
Alternatively, if you want her to have humanoid minions, insane cannibals/cultists work as a good substitute. One thing that might be interesting would be to give her a cabal of cannibalistic rangers, who hunt and attack much like animalistic predators, but with the intelligence of a human being.

[CowMasterTrojan]

For the witch, simply give her a chance to know the party is coming and then cast Summon monster V.

As for the daring outlaw, most likely he likes having a full BAB with sneak attack and INT to damage. I don't know prestige classes that well in PF, but I think he may be outta luck there. There isn't a clean transition for that feat.

[VexingFool]

Might look into Sawtooth Sabres and the Agile weapon property.

[Honest Tiefling]

She doesn't HAVE to be 10th level. Sure, she gets a mechanical bonus with the major Hex, but maybe she just likes to nip out and get a quick snack and happens to eat people magic feast or no magic feast because people are delicious. Or she's practicing the whole cooking people thing and doesn't have ti down quite yet.

Or she's a Dhampir? A bit more treating people as juice boxes then actual eating, but hey, you gotta let out blood out of a carcass to prepare it anyway, right? Might as well make sausage and then sell them in nearby villages for kicks and giggles.

[IronFist]

Thanks everyone for all the feedback.

I think the real problem for the Rogue is that he just can't find his niche in the party. We have a half-drow Monk/Swordsaint (Crane + Iaijutsu; we have some houserules on iaijutsu, making it a bit more powerful), an aasimar Paladin (archer), a half-elf Magus (Bladebound) and a kobold Swordsage/Sorcerer. The Swordsaint and the Paladin deal heavy damage, the kobold is mobile with lots of tricks, the Magus does a bit of every thing. The Paladin rocks Charisma 24, so he deals with social encounters whenever possible. The Swordsage has ridiculous Perception. I think he could do some debuffing to complement everyone else, but it seems like he does not want to play a support class.

About Swatooth Sabers, they were nerfed into uselessness.

For the Witch, the thing is I'll probably have her in Korvosa, which is a big city. I think I'll stick with level 1 thugs and summons.

And yeah, she doesn't HAVE to be 10th level, but that ability is so cool. Imagine the low level characters buffed by cannibalism!

[Psyren]

1) If you're houseruling to buff the Monk/Samurai, the Rogue deserves a buff too.

2) You can try throwing traps and/or stealth segments at the party so he can shine (Yeah he doesn't have trapfinding but you don't need it to spot them in PF.) The Monk and Swordsage can participate in these too.

3) You can always give her some kind of hex manual or something that lets her use Cook People early.

[Karoht]

3) You can always give her some kind of hex manual or something that lets her use Cook People early.
And the manual should have a lot of dust on it.
How to Cook People
How to Cook For People
How to Cook Forty People
Yes, that joke.

[Psyren]

And the manual should have a lot of dust on it.
How to Cook People
How to Cook For People
How to Cook Forty People
Yes, that joke.

"To Serve Elf" :smallbiggrin:

[CTrees]

Minor spoilers

Module 2 of the Reign of Winter adventure path has a minor NPC that's a cannabilistic witch. She's maybe sixth level, so no mechanical benefits from it. She did have child scent, but mostly it was just that she had a thing for eating kids. She also had a haunted stove which she used for the cooking. It worked pretty well, and gave the PCs a side quest of rescuing all her captive children.