D&D 3.5 Sandshaper Help

[PowerGamer]

I'm getting into a game full of noobs with a DM friend of mine. The setting is in Sandstorm and being a more experienced player has given me the ability to make what I would like. I've been looking at Sandshaper for a loooooooooong time and really want to play it. I'm trying to find a good class to start with (Sorc,Wiz,Warmage, etc...). The game starts at level 1 for the noobs and level 3 for the 3 experienced players to keep them alive as locals of the waste. Please help me put together a NORMAL (not OP/broken) build so that my DM will keep me in the game. I normally hate Wiz for the less spells and preparing everyday (no matter how op) but I think that Warmage will do me better than Sorc... Help... just get me a build up to taking the Sandshaper class and I have the rest covered.

Race: Asherati
Base Class: WIZARD 6
PrC: Sandshaper

==EDIT==

Following the example sandshaper from the book. Help with schools of magic, feats, spells and equipment


Ex SandShaper
Osrutek the First: Male human wizard 6/sand shaper
8; CR 14; Medium humanoid; HD 6d4+12 plus 8d6+16;
hp 72; Init +1; Spd 30 ft.; AC 13 (21 with mage armor and
shield), touch 11, fl at-footed 12 (20 with mage armor and
shield); Base Atk +7; Grp +7; Atk +7 melee (1d6, quarterstaff);
Full Atk +7/+2 melee (1d6, quarterstaff); SA —;
SQ dust magic, sandform, sand stride, sand shape, improved
dust magic, desert slumber, improved sand shape; AL NE;
SV Fort +9, Ref +6, Will +11; Str 10, Dex 12, Con 14, Int
19, Wis 8, Cha 14.
Skills and Feats: Concentration +19, Diplomacy +4, Intimidate
+8, Knowledge (arcana) +21, Knowledge (nature) +23,
Sense Motive +5, Spellcraft +23, Spot +16, Survival +16
(+18 aboveground); Extend Spell, Great Fortitude, Heat
Endurance†, Scribe ScrollB, Searing Spell†, Quicken Spell,
Touchstone (City of the Dead)†, Widen SpellB.
† New feat described in Chapter 2.
Languages: Bhuka, Common, Draconic, Giant, Infernal.
Dust Magic (Ex): See prestige class feature description.
Sandform (Sp): See prestige class feature description.
Sand Stride (Sp): See prestige class feature description.
Sand Shape (Sp): See prestige class feature description.
Improved Dust Magic (Ex): See prestige class feature
description.
Desert Slumber (Ex): See prestige class feature description.
Improved Sand Shape (Sp): See prestige class feature
description.
Wizard Spells Prepared (caster level 13th): 0—detect
magic (2), read magic, touch of fatigue (DC 14); 1st—endure
elements, mage armor, magic missile (2), parching touch† (DC
15); 2nd—bear’s endurance, desiccate† (DC 16), resist energy,
scorching ray, extended shield; 3rd—displacement, fi reball
(DC 17), protection from energy, ray of exhaustion, searing
scorching ray; 4th—confusion (DC 18), searing fi reball (DC
17), greater invisibility, ice storm, wither† (DC 18); 5th—cone
of cold (DC 19), teleport, widened web (DC 16); 6th—quickened
scorching ray, mass suggestion (DC 20); 7th—prismatic
spray (DC 21).
† New spell described in Chapter 5.

[SolioFebalas]

If you hate wizard, then take sorc because warmage have more damage less versatility. Or you can look at funny class like Sha'ir.

[MirddinEmris]

Actually depending on how experienced DM is, he could count "more damage less versatility" as broken (as would other players). The advice in such situations usually goes - make something that will support your whole party, so even if you will be very strong, you wouldn't step on other player's toes. If your sorcerer will get more damage than a party fighter, than they will see it as broken even if the build will be mediocre, but no one will blame the wizard for ability to teleport party or casting haste, even if no one else could do it.

So, it's not the case of building less OP build and more of making it look like one.

P.S. Another advice - be sure that your feats, spells and other options come from small list of sources and that you don't multiclass heavily (fighter/barbarian/warblade/frenzied berserk with list of feats from 10 splatbooks will look more op than wizard/incantatrix who's only non-core option was PrC)

[Pilo]

Why not Beguiler (PHB2)? Int based caster, lots of skill points, many utility and control spells.
And you can use the Apprentice feat (DMG2) to get Survival and Knowledge(Nature) as your class skills.

[Gwendol]

Warmage: it's a good fit.

[Nettlekid]

I'm going to second Warmage. Warmages get lots of blasty spells, but unlike most you're also going to have some CC and buffs coming from the free spells that Sandshaper gives you. And since Warmages know their whole list, you'll be able to freely cast any of those spells whenever it suits you.

[Chronos]

And since Warmages know their whole list, you'll be able to freely cast any of those spells whenever it suits you.This doesn't actually matter in this case, because unlike some similar classes, Sandshaper adds its spells directly to your spells known, not just to your list. So even a sorcerer would get the full benefit.

That said, gaining a bunch of extra spells, most of them non-blasty, would go a long way towards making a warmage viable. If you find warmages fun, this would be a good way to play one.

[PowerGamer]

Actually depending on how experienced DM is, he could count "more damage less versatility" as broken (as would other players). The advice in such situations usually goes - make something that will support your whole party, so even if you will be very strong, you wouldn't step on other player's toes. If your sorcerer will get more damage than a party fighter, than they will see it as broken even if the build will be mediocre, but no one will blame the wizard for ability to teleport party or casting haste, even if no one else could do it.

So, it's not the case of building less OP build and more of making it look like one.

P.S. Another advice - be sure that your feats, spells and other options come from small list of sources and that you don't multiclass heavily (fighter/barbarian/warblade/frenzied berserk with list of feats from 10 splatbooks will look more op than wizard/incantatrix who's only non-core option was PrC)

I was planning on 1 base class an Sandshaper, making it easy for the DM (and myself). I know Wiz is super versatile, it's the whole, trying to prep what I need for the whole day part.. and less spells per day.


Why not Beguiler (PHB2)? Int based caster, lots of skill points, many utility and control spells.
And you can use the Apprentice feat (DMG2) to get Survival and Knowledge(Nature) as your class skills.

We have a Beguiler as one of the experienced players :/


Warmage: it's a good fit.

I like warmages because they are blasty, and sandshaper gives some nice spells to round it

[Grod_The_Giant]

I like Warmage 5/Sand Shaper 1/Mage of the Arcane Order 10/something 4 (more sand shaper? Archmage?). Start with the warmage's damage-and-BFC list, add utility spells from the sand shaper's list, and grab situational spells from the spellpool. Bonus points if you work a dip into Prestige Bard into there for unspecified "bard only" spells.

[PowerGamer]

I like Warmage 5/Sand Shaper 1/Mage of the Arcane Order 10/something 4 (more sand shaper? Archmage?). Start with the warmage's damage-and-BFC list, add utility spells from the sand shaper's list, and grab situational spells from the spellpool. Bonus points if you work a dip into Prestige Bard into there for unspecified "bard only" spells.

I'm going 1 base and then straight sandshaper. I'm trying to not break the DM's campaign and still fit in the setting.

[Gwendol]

Warmage + sandshaper then. Look for the arcane disciple feat to add more utility spells to your repertoir, and of course versatile spellcaster.

[Grim Reader]

My favorite Sand Shaper entry is Duskblade. That is normally based on just a dip into Sand Shaper though. Desert Insight keeps adding spells known after a dip, and Sand Shaper loses caster levels.

Warmage becomes quite viable with the Sand Shaper spells added. But losing the second caster advancement would suck.

[Roguenewb]

Sorcerer is a really good entry into Sandshaper. It gives you a bunch of buffs, utility spells and some summons that you almost certainly wouldn't have picked with your limited spells known. My favorite sorcerer build is:

The Saint of the Sand
Human Sorcerer 5/Sandshaper 2/Exalted Arcanist 5/Sandshaper 8.
Sorc 1: Touchstone
Human: Purify Spell
3: Consecrate Spell
6: Versatile Spellcaster (skip if you don't wanna take advantage of grabbing spells 2 levels early)
9: Extend Spell
12: Quicken Spell
15: Practical Metamagic (Quicken)
18: Twin Spell (or easy metamagic (Quicken) if that's allowed)

Nice, solid, arcane caster, huge spell list compared to a normal sorcerer, all while being helpful without broken. Pick up battlefield control spells with your normal spells known, and have a good time.

[ahenobarbi]

How about Bard? Awesome party buffing, nice skills and you don't really risk overshadowing rest of the party.

[PowerGamer]

Warmage + sandshaper then. Look for the arcane disciple feat to add more utility spells to your repertoir, and of course versatile spellcaster.

That's what I was thinking


My favorite Sand Shaper entry is Duskblade. That is normally based on just a dip into Sand Shaper though. Desert Insight keeps adding spells known after a dip, and Sand Shaper loses caster levels.

Warmage becomes quite viable with the Sand Shaper spells added. But losing the second caster advancement would suck.

I've never played a duskblade so out of familiarity I'll probably pic warmage if the DM oks it.


Sorcerer is a really good entry into Sandshaper. It gives you a bunch of buffs, utility spells and some summons that you almost certainly wouldn't have picked with your limited spells known. My favorite sorcerer build is:

The Saint of the Sand
Human Sorcerer 5/Sandshaper 2/Exalted Arcanist 5/Sandshaper 8.
Sorc 1: Touchstone
Human: Purify Spell
3: Consecrate Spell
6: Versatile Spellcaster (skip if you don't wanna take advantage of grabbing spells 2 levels early)
9: Extend Spell
12: Quicken Spell
15: Practical Metamagic (Quicken)
18: Twin Spell (or easy metamagic (Quicken) if that's allowed)

Nice, solid, arcane caster, huge spell list compared to a normal sorcerer, all while being helpful without broken. Pick up battlefield control spells with your normal spells known, and have a good time.

Again only taking the one Base and the one PrC, but thank you for the suggestions. I'll look into those feats. I don't normally use a caster so those are good feats to keep in mind


How about Bard? Awesome party buffing, nice skills and you don't really risk overshadowing rest of the party.

We have a bard :)

[Doc_Maynot]

Seeing as sandshaper requires spell or spell-like abilities, perhaps use the good ol' factotum as your base class? Sure, you'd have to wait until level 9 to enter the PrC but it'll let you have some more versatility. Plus you'd have the ability to get more standard actions by then.

[Roguenewb]

Seeing as sandshaper requires spell or spell-like abilities, perhaps use the good ol' factotum as your base class? Sure, you'd have to wait until level 9 to enter the PrC but it'll let you have some more versatility. Plus you'd have the ability to get more standard actions by then.

The sandshaper class features do nothing to help a factotum. You get the minor sand shape abilities, but its almost entirely useless.

@OP, I know the build I posted has two PrCs, I was just showing how you can use sandshapers bonus spells to make a general purpose helpful sorcerer.

[John Longarrow]

PowerGamer,

What are the other experiences players running and what do you want to be able to do to support the party?

You've posted one is a Beguiler. I'm guessing they will do area control and traps.

[PowerGamer]

Seeing as sandshaper requires spell or spell-like abilities, perhaps use the good ol' factotum as your base class? Sure, you'd have to wait until level 9 to enter the PrC but it'll let you have some more versatility. Plus you'd have the ability to get more standard actions by then.

The sandshaper class features do nothing to help a factotum. You get the minor sand shape abilities, but its almost entirely useless.

@OP, I know the build I posted has two PrCs, I was just showing how you can use sandshapers bonus spells to make a general purpose helpful sorcerer.

Factorum isn't allowed. I'm very limited by books for this DM. I'm trying to be nice to him but still helpful to the party


PowerGamer,

What are the other experiences players running and what do you want to be able to do to support the party?

You've posted one is a Beguiler. I'm guessing they will do area control and traps.

Beguiler 3 and Ranger 3.
Noobs are Cleric 1, Bard 1, Druid 1, Paladin 1, Rogue 1

I'm the most experienced in the game overall. I don't want to scare the others out of playing. As for role in the party. I'm assuming the DM wants me to be some sort of local that decides to aid the no waste dwellers

Sorc5/Sandshaper is probably the best way to go unless the DM allows me to play a Warmage (I like warmage :smallsmile:)

[John Longarrow]

PowerGamer,

As you party has limited utility arcane you may want to go Wizard simply because no one else has that area covered.

Beguiler can fill in partly for a wizard but they are still lacking (and they will have to be careful to not outshine the dedicated Rogue, especially as Beguilers are really good at this).

Warmage doesn't get the utility that a wizard does, and your ability to lay down a lot of blastyness will make the Paladin look rather tame in comparison.

Being able to provide spells like Enlarge Person, Invisibility, and Shield to others will give your party a lot of strength without you stealing the spotlite. Having Rope Trick in a desert environment can also be a game changer for resting up.

[Gwendol]

That's where the arcane diciple comes in. I think he'll do just fine.

[PowerGamer]

PowerGamer,

As you party has limited utility arcane you may want to go Wizard simply because no one else has that area covered.

Beguiler can fill in partly for a wizard but they are still lacking (and they will have to be careful to not outshine the dedicated Rogue, especially as Beguilers are really good at this).

Warmage doesn't get the utility that a wizard does, and your ability to lay down a lot of blastyness will make the Paladin look rather tame in comparison.

Being able to provide spells like Enlarge Person, Invisibility, and Shield to others will give your party a lot of strength without you stealing the spotlite. Having Rope Trick in a desert environment can also be a game changer for resting up.

I honestly needed someone to make the decision. I love psionics (which are baned in this game) but I can deal with playing a wizard I guess. any suggestions on how to build my 5 levels of Wiz before going SS?


That's where the arcane diciple comes in. I think he'll do just fine.

Not a bad idea, gah you're all making me conflicted still...

[John Longarrow]

For the build, I'd suggest you talk to folks playing the Ranger and the Beguiler. Find out what kind of support they will need / what they can or can't give to your new players and go from there.

Think of the kinds of things that will let your new players shine. Luminous armor on a paladin seems very fitting. Talk over how you plan to help out the new players. See what you can do to make their characters more fun. Since you do have another caster that has some experience this can be a really fun time for you for coordinating support.

In the end, since you do have several new players the trick will be to show them how a good cohesive party functions. Don't worry about being the blaster. Worry about making the rest of the party better then sit back and be the wise wizard that they all respect.

[PowerGamer]

For the build, I'd suggest you talk to folks playing the Ranger and the Beguiler. Find out what kind of support they will need / what they can or can't give to your new players and go from there.

Think of the kinds of things that will let your new players shine. Luminous armor on a paladin seems very fitting. Talk over how you plan to help out the new players. See what you can do to make their characters more fun. Since you do have another caster that has some experience this can be a really fun time for you for coordinating support.

In the end, since you do have several new players the trick will be to show them how a good cohesive party functions. Don't worry about being the blaster. Worry about making the rest of the party better then sit back and be the wise wizard that they all respect.

And now there's another experienced player doing some sort of grapple/rope controller. So he said I could do the warmage+arcane disciple to get more healing for the party with the healing domain. In the end though I think I'll just follow the example sandshaper and go wizard. Should I stay generalist or specialize. if so help!

Role to fill is a native helping the noobs survive on their journey through the waste and possible interesting backstory plot twist involving illithids occuring... Don't even ask about that...

I just need to stand back and help the noobies win by aiding them

EX SandShaper from the book
Osrutek the First: Male human wizard 6/sand shaper
8; CR 14; Medium humanoid; HD 6d4+12 plus 8d6+16;
hp 72; Init +1; Spd 30 ft.; AC 13 (21 with mage armor and
shield), touch 11, fl at-footed 12 (20 with mage armor and
shield); Base Atk +7; Grp +7; Atk +7 melee (1d6, quarterstaff);
Full Atk +7/+2 melee (1d6, quarterstaff); SA —;
SQ dust magic, sandform, sand stride, sand shape, improved
dust magic, desert slumber, improved sand shape; AL NE;
SV Fort +9, Ref +6, Will +11; Str 10, Dex 12, Con 14, Int
19, Wis 8, Cha 14.
Skills and Feats: Concentration +19, Diplomacy +4, Intimidate
+8, Knowledge (arcana) +21, Knowledge (nature) +23,
Sense Motive +5, Spellcraft +23, Spot +16, Survival +16
(+18 aboveground); Extend Spell, Great Fortitude, Heat
Endurance†, Scribe ScrollB, Searing Spell†, Quicken Spell,
Touchstone (City of the Dead)†, Widen SpellB.
† New feat described in Chapter 2.
Languages: Bhuka, Common, Draconic, Giant, Infernal.
Dust Magic (Ex): See prestige class feature description.
Sandform (Sp): See prestige class feature description.
Sand Stride (Sp): See prestige class feature description.
Sand Shape (Sp): See prestige class feature description.
Improved Dust Magic (Ex): See prestige class feature
description.
Desert Slumber (Ex): See prestige class feature description.
Improved Sand Shape (Sp): See prestige class feature
description.
Wizard Spells Prepared (caster level 13th): 0—detect
magic (2), read magic, touch of fatigue (DC 14); 1st—endure
elements, mage armor, magic missile (2), parching touch† (DC
15); 2nd—bear’s endurance, desiccate† (DC 16), resist energy,
scorching ray, extended shield; 3rd—displacement, fi reball
(DC 17), protection from energy, ray of exhaustion, searing
scorching ray; 4th—confusion (DC 18), searing fi reball (DC
17), greater invisibility, ice storm, wither† (DC 18); 5th—cone
of cold (DC 19), teleport, widened web (DC 16); 6th—quickened
scorching ray, mass suggestion (DC 20); 7th—prismatic
spray (DC 21).
† New spell described in Chapter 5.