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Jon_Dahl
2013-09-19, 03:16 AM
How do you name your PCs and NPCs?

In my case, it's all about naming D&D NPCs (in a standard Greyhawk setting). First of all, I try to look at the existing NPCs and name the my NPCs accordingly. Sometimes I cut the existing names in half and recreate the missing half. Sometimes I combine the names of the existing NPCs. For example: Tenser + Xodast = Tendast.

I try to use double vowels and grave/acute pitch vowels with moderation. E.g. one NPC could be "Hagár" and another "Ringaar". I always avoid ending names with double consonant because it's incredibly cheesy, like "Maxx".

I've also noticed that fantasy and sci-fi authors often use the letter "r" extensively. Let's look at the Game of Thrones. Tolkien seemed to suffer from the same compulsion. Why the obsession with the letter "r"? I try to avoid it, because it's a huge naming cliché.

I've noticed that my male characters' names usually end with "n" and female names usually end with "a". I want to help my players to differentiate the male and female NPC names. I also like names ending with "i".

I like using Google translate. I insert an English word which describes the NPC and see how it goes in different languages. I may trim the word a bit and voilá. It's very poor form to use real world names in fantasy, like "Artemis" or "Otto". It's highly unusual that a random culture with no connection to our world would have the same kinds of names that we have. All fantasy names should be different from our names, or at least not obviously taken from real life.

BWR
2013-09-19, 03:29 AM
Never thought of the 'r'-thing before, but looking on what sort of names have shown up, that does seem to be a very common sound. In all fairness, though, there are a lot of 'r' sounds in Germanic.

A friend of mine DMs elves that almost always have names ending in -iel.

Naming depends. In certain settings or certain areas of a game world names are easy and sensible. If you're in Rokugan, anything Japanese, sometimes Korean or Chinese or Mongol will do. Places inspired by the 1001 Nights tend to get Arab names. In Thyatis, anything Greek and to a lesser extent Roman. In any Viking inspired setting you tend to get ON names.
Your 'average D&D' world tends to get weird because there are rarely, if ever, standard naming conventions in the area.
Personally, I often just choose real world names. There are enough of them that you can find something exotic that fits.

The Rose Dragon
2013-09-19, 04:30 AM
In Ao-bara, I use real-world names for everyone except boreans, because they all speak real-world languages, although due to linguistic drift and massive changes to the world compared to how things were, some names lost their origins (especially Dawn and any name meaning the same, due to Helios Unrelenting being an unmoving, unsetting source of light and life at the north pole inside a hollow world).

Otherwise, it depends on the phonetics of various names from the same region as the character. And outside of fantasy, things can be much simpler (like in pulp or superhero games, where you are practically obligated to use real-world names), or much more difficult (like for aliens, who might have completely different phonetics from any real-world language and would be nigh-impossible to represent in the Latin alphabet, let alone speak).

SilverLeaf167
2013-09-19, 06:40 AM
Because names I make up myself tend to sound very similar, I've come up with something else. I typically equate most fantasy languages to a real-life one. For example, I like Hungarian for Draconic and Irish/Welsh for Elves. Then, when I have to think of a name to a city or person, I translate some words, relevant or not, to the chosen language, then put them together and twist them around until they sound and look practical/cool. I often end up removing some consonants, since those are sort overused in fantasy and hard to pronounce. Ta-da, I have a name! When possible, I also try to change the names so that it would be as hard as possible for my players to twist stupid jokes out of them. I think I learnt my lesson when they mistook Quillswipe for "Asswipe" and the name stuck.

Of course, I sometimes end up with the basic Greyhawk style of "Adjective Noun", but I try to keep those rare and somehow justify the naming.

snowblizz
2013-09-19, 06:56 AM
Let's look at the Game of Thrones. Tolkien seemed to suffer from the same compulsion. Why the obsession with the letter "r"? I try to avoid it, because it's a huge naming cliché.

George R. R. Martin.
John R. R. Tolkien

Coincidence? I think not... :smalltongue::smalltongue::smalltongue:

When it comes to Tolkien at least I'd give the man the benefit of the doubt. He wasn't an author but a linguist scholar so he probably knew to give characters names that were "accurate" for the language they spoke.

Destro_Yersul
2013-09-19, 07:07 AM
It's very poor form to use real world names in fantasy, like "Artemis" or "Otto". It's highly unusual that a random culture with no connection to our world would have the same kinds of names that we have. All fantasy names should be different from our names, or at least not obviously taken from real life.

I disagree with this point. Naming conventions should be internally consistent with the world, sure, but there's no reason to ignore real-world development on that front, especially if you're designing your own world. History is a great place to shamelessly steal borrow inspiration from, and it's no different with names. In one of the settings I've worked on, the two major kingdoms on one continent, which were both split off from one larger past kingdom, use mostly English style names. Things like Willam and Garrick. People from the less-civilised northern region use Scandinavian or fantasy-ish names. I'm also fond of the Norse tradition for last names of simply adding 'son' or 'dotter' to the end of the parent's first name. People from a region inspired by Italy use Italian names, and so forth.

Morgarion
2013-09-19, 08:03 AM
I've also noticed that fantasy and sci-fi authors often use the letter "r" extensively. Let's look at the Game of Thrones. Tolkien seemed to suffer from the same compulsion. Why the obsession with the letter "r"? I try to avoid it, because it's a huge naming cliché.

/r/ is just a really nice phoneme. It a voiced sonorant articulated at the alveolar ridge. It's got easy written all over it. In English, if you have a dialect with really strong preferences against open syllables, /r/ is what gets inserted to append them when appropriate (Boston, for example).


I've noticed that my male characters' names usually end with "n" and female names usually end with "a". I want to help my players to differentiate the male and female NPC names. I also like names ending with "i".

It's hard to avoid the '-a' ending for women, especially when you come from an Indo-European background. In my setting, I've included a region inspired by the Caucasus - primarily Georgia - and unless you're familiar with them, it's hard to tell which names belong to which gender sometimes. It probably has something to do with the language lacking a grammatical gender (as far back as anyone knows, I think).


I like using Google translate. I insert an English word which describes the NPC and see how it goes in different languages. I may trim the word a bit and voilá. It's very poor form to use real world names in fantasy, like "Artemis" or "Otto". It's highly unusual that a random culture with no connection to our world would have the same kinds of names that we have. All fantasy names should be different from our names, or at least not obviously taken from real life.

I guess I half-agree with this. In the first place, I find that since we're very much unable to completely divorce ourselves from the world in which we live, so some of it necessarily gets into what we create. I know that's a whole epistemic can of worms, but that's my position. So I embrace it when I'm worldbuilding and try to utilize images, ideas and symbols that invoke in me certain reactions, in the hopes that those reactions are common enough to get the right 'vibe' across (doesn't always work).

Part of that is onomastics, so sometimes I'll start with a few real names or words and mutate them, (voicing, devoicing, assimilation, etc) until they still sort of resemble where I started, in a vague way, but you'd be hard pressed to figure it out. And as with most aspects of worldbuilding, internal consistency is king. I go with my gut; if it doesn't sound like it belongs, it's out.

EDIT: Which is my point. A consistent culture is important because, even if you don't want to take it literally and say that everyone from a certain peninsula has a Japanese-sounding name, you can use it as some sort of cover for at least everyone having a name that has the same character.

I believe that I have read that Tolkein himself did this, but not being much of a fan or scholar of his I cannot say for sure where I saw this. It was something to the effect of the Hobbit names given in the books not being actual Hobbit names, but at least you were left with the sense that they had a flavor distinct from everyone else's and something of a consistent style.

Mastikator
2013-09-19, 08:12 AM
I think "what would their parents name them?" and go with that. Usually when introducing a NPC I haven't thought of a name and just give them one randomly based on the NPCs background.

DigoDragon
2013-09-19, 08:28 AM
I go to one of those name sites like "Thinkbabynames.com" and look up names by region to give a particular area a specific flavor. Or for individual NPCs, I can look names up by meaning if I want something descriptive.

SilverLeaf167
2013-09-19, 08:29 AM
I really get into some trouble when I have to improvise names. For example, I have an NPC Cleric named Arlius; oddly enough this is one of the only names my players actually remember. Then when I had to think of a name for a random Cleric they met, my thoughts instantly went to Arlius and I blurted out "Marius". The players snickered about the similarity for a second, but let it go quickly enough. I guess they understood that I had to improvise it.

johnbragg
2013-09-19, 09:04 AM
How do you name your PCs and NPCs?
It's very poor form to use real world names in fantasy, like "Artemis" or "Otto". It's highly unusual that a random culture with no connection to our world would have the same kinds of names that we have. All fantasy names should be different from our names, or at least not obviously taken from real life.

No, I can't agree. I use real-world culture-names to imply the flavor of a culture. If I'm being lazy, I'll come up with a list of a dozen German and Nordic first names for one culture, a dozen French names for another, a dozen Roman names for another. Get out an atlas and use random locations for surnames.

I spent a lot of time with encyclopedias as a kid, but now we have wikipedia. Look up a list of monarchs, and you've got your setting-equivalent John Charles Fred Paul Peter Henry George Bill Adam.

For a German-ish flavor (Dwarves, Vikings, Grimm's Fairy Tales?) you could just go to wikipedia, and scroll down the list noting "new" names."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_holy_roman_emperors#List_of_emperors

Charles: Karl
Louis: Ludvig
Lothair: Not sure, but maybe move it to the French list.
Guy: Err, discard
LAmbert: Definitely one for the French list.
Arnulf: Nice!
Berengar: French list.
Otto: See?
Henry: I think you meant Heinrich.
Conrad: Yes.
Frederick: Freidrich, maybe.
Sigismund: Nice.
Maximilian: Good name, but tough cultural fit.
Ferdinand: Again, good name, but tough cultural fit.
Rudolph: Not bad, but beware of reindeer jokes
MAtthias: Good name, tough cultural fit.
Leopold: Er, French list.
Joseph: Yosef for the German list

So from one list, we have 9 common GErman-analog names, Karl, Ludvig, Otto, Heinrich, Conrad, Freidrick, Rudolf or just Dolf (reindeer begone!), and Yosef. Oh, and Arnulf. Plus Louis, Lothair, Lambert, Berengar, and Leopold for the French list. Sigismund, Maximilian, Ferdinand and Mattias I'd save for important NPCs.

Double-naming can also help. Charles is blah, with or without French pronunciation, but Charles-Phillippe is passable. Henri-Phillippe is halfway to being interesting. EDIT: Ooh, more flavor if you apply the French pronunciation to the spelling. Sharl-Phillippe?

And on and on through wikipedia and Google maps. MAybe actually google up some maps of ancient cultures for those names.

Yora
2013-09-19, 09:11 AM
I made myself a couple of lists with rather obscure names from all over the world and assigned them to different cultures in the game world. Usually just 20 to 30 names each for men and women, but enough to get a name quickly when you need one and a good starting point to get a feel for how names of that culture sound, like existing letters, common syllables and the number of them in a name.

valadil
2013-09-19, 09:53 AM
I try to vary it up a little. Dwarves should not have the same convention as elves should not have the same convention as humans.

My one requirement is the name be pronouncable. I've made up so many names that look cool on paper, but when spoken aloud sound dumb. This is easy to check for, just say the name.

My ideal names are the ones that sound like they could have been a real world name.

Terraoblivion
2013-09-19, 10:02 AM
Maximilian and Ferdinand are both extremely German names, though. And not very French, really. Leopold can go either way, but it's kinda odd and not very common, so I can't comment much.

Also, Lothair is very clearly German too. And Joseph is the proper German spelling, Yosef isn't even a possible word in German. J is the letter for that sound in German and I'm not sure I have ever seen Y in German. I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure they only use it in English loanwords.

On the other hand, Arnulf sounds more like a really old Scandinavian name than anything German. Even medieval German had abandoned names like that centuries earlier.

In any case, no, I don't see any problem with using real world names in fantasy. In fact, I strongly prefer it to the GM ineptly playing linguist and creating some cringeworthy names or use real world names with weird spelling.

Jay R
2013-09-19, 10:31 AM
At first I stole names from the literature. My first Paladin was Theseus; my first dwarf was Eiddileg; my first cleric was Nabonidus; my first female wizard was Endora. [Greek mythology; Prydain; Conan; Bewitched]

Now I follow Tolkien's example, and usually have a culture and a language in mind. So my Egyptian wizard is Pteppic. My Welsh Bard is Gwydion. My French swashbuckler is Jean-Louis.

I recently played an elf who grew up as an orphan in human lands, not knowing why his ears were pointed. Since he loved the forst and had Tightrope Walking skill, He called himself "Treewalker". When he eventually learned about elves, and learned the language, he tried to translate that into Elvish. (The closest I could get is Ornrandir, which is really tree-wanderer.)

Back in original D&D, I had a hobbit thief, and I wanted a name that was typically hobbittish (which really means rural Edwardian England), but which was suitable for a thief. I eventually came up with "Robin Banks".

johnbragg
2013-09-19, 11:06 AM
I just noticed Terraoblivion's location--most of my conventions probably wouldn't work with Germanic-language speaking Europeans.


Maximilian and Ferdinand are both extremely German names, though. And not very French, really. Leopold can go either way, but it's kinda odd and not very common, so I can't comment much.

But to an American ear, they don't _sound_ terribly German. Or, perhaps to get the point across, ffery CHER-man! You vil yoos ze cartoonich aksent unt yoo vil like it! Excuse me, leich it! It doesn't have to go to the extent of the cartoonish accent, but it should go in that direction to activate the flavor.

I'm less hung up on actual accuracy than what sounds right, and that's to an American-English speaking ear. "Right"=at least mildly exotic, and moderately consistent with each other. A German-speaker would write "Joseph", but an English-speaker would hear "Yosif."


Also, Lothair is very clearly German too.
REal world, yes. But Lothair Brunsvick sounds like, at the outside, a German aristocrat or close to it, and I use the GErmanic names for more dwarvish, viking or rude-medieval types. Lothair uv-Brunsvick should be using a rapier, or a gladius that he has some Dex-related feats with, not a greataxe or a morningstar. Gunther uv-Brunsvick swinging a greataxe fits perfectly.
(I just went back through and changed all the Brunswicks to Brunsvicks. See how that works?)


And Joseph is the proper German spelling, Yosef isn't even a possible word in German. J is the letter for that sound in German and I'm not sure I have ever seen Y in German. I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure they only use it in English loanwords.

I moved my response to the top, as it was the main point.


On the other hand, Arnulf sounds more like a really old Scandinavian name than anything German. Even medieval German had abandoned names like that centuries earlier.

But it fits, to an American ear. The party is walking down the street in the Dwarven Quarter. (Right now, I'm opening a map of Germany in another tab for placename/surnames). Their local guide points out Erik Hildesheim's tavern, Gunther Leuben's smithy--good for quick work, not so much for quality, Konrad Rathenow's smithy across the street--quality stuff, but you pay for it and you'll wait for it, Widow Hilda Schwerin's inn, and the Arnulf Oldenburg's stables.


In any case, no, I don't see any problem with using real world names in fantasy. In fact, I strongly prefer it to the GM ineptly playing linguist and creating some cringeworthy names or use real world names with weird spelling.

Playing linguist is fine, if it means "pick a language/culture remote from your players, open lists and maps and start looting names." Also if it means using consistent naming conventions, i.e. "Elven male names should end in -el or -al" female names in -iel or -ael"

Piedmon_Sama
2013-09-19, 11:36 AM
Whenever I make a female PC or NPC, I look for the most amazingly ugly medieval names like Drudgardys or Beaufortilde or Ottvalde. And all my campaigns have a guy named Astrolabe somewhere.

Blackjackg
2013-09-19, 12:07 PM
I've started avoiding names with double vowels, exotic-sounding accents, or consonants used in any way other than English-Standard for one simple reason: no one else will ever pronounce it right. My character Farraj always gets turned into Farrash; Éia quickly becomes Aya; and you'd better believe that in the mouths of the people I game with "Ringaar" will always be "Ringar" or even "Ringer."

I also think there's a place for real world names (even modern names) in fantasy settings... not always, but sometimes. If your all-powerful wizard is named Fistandantilus or Ostentatiousnix, that's nothing new... but name him Matthew, and have those closest to him call him Matt? That carries a very different idea of character.

One convention I've stuck with is having dwarves and gnomes translate their surnames. So yeah, when he's speaking in Common, his name is Covox Copperblood. But when he's with dwarves, it's Covox Doramar; to elves he is Covox Kyarua; to gnomes Covox Kaerdinacallad and on the rare occasion when he must introduce himself to a dragon, he calls himself Covox Rach-Iejir (this character happened to speak a lot of languages). The name generators in the various "Races of" books come in handy for this purpose, but are far from the final word on the matter.

Fable Wright
2013-09-19, 12:37 PM
But to an American ear, they don't _sound_ terribly German.
Random American over here, and they still sound pretty Germanic to me.

On actual naming conventions, for PCs, I used to come up with random names that were usually heavy on the e, a, d, and sh/ch sounds that were usually clipped to be short enough to actually be a useable name. Then I started finding names whose meanings would fit characters. Like finding Dremidydd for a dream-based character. Or translating random words via fantasy language translator to find something that's close enough, and then cut out the extraneous sounds until it sounds fit to be a name.

For NPCs, in the campaign I'm starting, I'm just generating grab bags of names that I determine based on culture. In the human kingdom that is a giant stealth pun, for example, I use anagrams of names relevant to the pun (so long as they're short, pronounceable, and obviously don't have roots in any human language) for NPCs. For dwarves, I come up with some of the most generic dwarfy clan names (e.g. Urist), one to two syllable family line names (fist, beard, dan) and similarly short personal names that are mostly made up one-two syllable names heavy on n, m, and r sounds or play off dwarf stereotypes, and then randomly splicing the combinations together. (Generating such names as Urist Mc Scot, Urist Fist Man, and Urist Beard Nib, next to more obvious fantasy names like Urist Dan Malor.) Elves (mutated human craftsmen) get names of two words smashed together that describe what their craft specialty is: Starglass, Thinshiv, Incinerateheretic, Skullweaver, and so forth. Halflings (mutated human traders) get three letter names with a vowel in the middle: Pip, Nik, Sal, Fen, and so on. Orcs (mutated human miners) get names like Doug, Bernard, Philip, George, and other relatively commonplace names.

Terraoblivion
2013-09-19, 12:40 PM
But to an American ear, they don't _sound_ terribly German. Or, perhaps to get the point across, ffery CHER-man!

But that's a French accent, not a German. German Gs sound like the one in "green".

Also, Lothair is really old-school German, about as old as things like Arnulf is to Scandinavian languages. And I'd find it kinda odd for someone German to be called Brunswick rather than Braunschweig, the actual German name of the place that's called Brunswick in English. So he'd be Lothair von Braunschweig rather than Lothair uv Brunswick and I'd say the former sounds a lot more German, even if you'd have to mess with the spelling for people to get that V is pronounced like F in German.

johnbragg
2013-09-19, 01:08 PM
But that's a French accent, not a German. German Gs sound like the one in "green".


But that's a French accent, not a German. German Gs sound like the one in "green".

Well, German isn't actually a German word anyway. The French accent would look something like "velli Share-mon" Hard to transliterate.


Also, Lothair is really old-school German, about as old as things like Arnulf is to Scandinavian languages. And I'd find it kinda odd for someone German to be called Brunswick rather than Braunschweig, the actual German name of the place that's called Brunswick in English. So he'd be Lothair von Braunschweig rather than Lothair uv Brunswick and I'd say the former sounds a lot more German, even if you'd have to mess with the spelling for people to get that V is pronounced like F in German.

Good point about Brunswick/Braunschweig. Although I'd name the NPC as Braunschveich. (In my head Brunsvick was sounding more like Broonsveich anyway).

I thought the Von signaled an aristocratic title? Lothair Of Brunswick, in that Lothair or his family OWNS Brunswick? Or at least owned... If I'm naming random NPCs that didn't exist before the party ditched the plot and went into town unexpectedly, I don't want them being important aristocrats.

Morgarion
2013-09-19, 01:18 PM
Well, German isn't actually a German word anyway. The French accent would look something like "velli Share-mon" Hard to transliterate.

Unless you know the IPA. I think this is what you're going for: vɛʁi ʒermã

EDIT: Although, now that I think about it, I don't know why the approximant in 'very' is so far back. It actually probably would be vɛʎi

johnbragg
2013-09-19, 01:24 PM
Unless you know the IPA. I think this is what you're going for: vɛʁi ʒermã

EDIT: Although, now that I think about it, I don't know why the approximant in 'very' is so far back. It actually probably would be vɛʎi

True, but I don't, and since I'm being provincial enough to assume that players (and readers, if any) are American English speakers, I don't think I should assume reading fluency in IPA.

Jon_Dahl
2013-09-19, 01:30 PM
I think the real art is to use imaginary names that fit the culture and not just use names of places and people of any real-world culture. Taking names from the real world is too easy. We don't want easy things, now do we? It makes us look lazy :smallsmile: Making your own names that sound fitting to the setting takes more effort and certainly earns my respect.

Destro_Yersul
2013-09-19, 02:05 PM
I think the real art is to use imaginary names that fit the culture and not just use names of places and people of any real-world culture. Taking names from the real world is too easy. We don't want easy things, now do we? It makes us look lazy :smallsmile: Making your own names that sound fitting to the setting takes more effort and certainly earns my respect.

No, no, we absolutely want easy. Making your own names is way harder, and people (me) who already struggle coming up with good names for NPCs need all the help we can get. Leaves us with more time to focus on the other aspects of worldbuilding. You just have to sell it to the players, and if you make the world internally consistent, with names they can recognise and pronounce, that's way easier to do.

johnbragg
2013-09-19, 02:11 PM
No, no, we absolutely want easy. Making your own names is way harder, and people (me) who already struggle coming up with good names for NPCs need all the help we can get. Leaves us with more time to focus on the other aspects of worldbuilding. You just have to sell it to the players, and if you make the world internally consistent, with names they can recognise and pronounce, that's way easier to do.

It can be pretty easy, as I illustrated upthread. I used German and French because they're semi-familiar to English speakers, but just far enough away for a fantasy world to work.

You can follow the same principles for more exotic-seeming settings by using non-Indo-European languages. I played in a campaign once where the GM "mined" Turkish for place- and people-names. Having Ozal the fighter and Ismet the mage adventure through Hurriyet gives a very different flavor than having Konrad Luitpold and Maximilian of Erfurt adventure stop in the town of Torgelow in the Kingdom of Ramsteid.

Terraoblivion
2013-09-19, 02:17 PM
Well, German isn't actually a German word anyway.

German still comes from a shared root used in a number of German words such as Germanien, germanisch and Germane. It's basically the root of all terms referring to ancient German people in all Germanic languages including English.


I thought the Von signaled an aristocratic title? Lothair Of Brunswick, in that Lothair or his family OWNS Brunswick? Or at least owned... If I'm naming random NPCs that didn't exist before the party ditched the plot and went into town unexpectedly, I don't want them being important aristocrats.

You won't usually use an adverb or pronoun to denote origin in German except for noble titles, but "von Braunschweig" just means "from Braunschweig". For it to strictly be a noble thing it would have to be Lothair Freiherr von Braunschweig or Lothair Graf von Braunschweig or similar. If you just want to use it as a last name, you'd generally either add -er at the end or turn the last syllable into -er.

The Rose Dragon
2013-09-19, 02:20 PM
Having Ozal the fighter and Ismet the mage adventure through Hurriyet...

I suppose I should ask why you are adventuring through a town named "Liberty", but then again, I cannot possibly associate the name İsmet with mages, so I suppose what sounds horribly mundane to me must sound exotic to you.

Piedmon_Sama
2013-09-19, 02:20 PM
A problem with trying to create cultures out of wholecloth is most players just aren't going to sit down and read through so much as two pages of language and customs and then remember it during gameplay. Even if I had the time or inclination to work out one or more conlangs for a setting, the more "at sea" my players feel the less roleplaying I'm going to get out of them. End of the day, I see better roleplaying in relatively familiar trappings, e.g "this country is vaguely Roman" "this kingdom is sorta like medieval France," and "these guys are kinda Vikings." NPC names should generally reinforce that, although it's good IMO to do research so you can get more creative than naming everybody Gaius or Louise. Most players IRL are not historians or anthropologists and will just feel lost if you try to immerse them in a wildly different culture (even one based on RL; I doubt if my players would be able or willing to navigate and roleplay in an Indian or Near Eastern influenced setting, as members of that culture).

johnbragg
2013-09-19, 03:27 PM
I suppose I should ask why you are adventuring through a town named "Liberty", but then again, I cannot possibly associate the name İsmet with mages, so I suppose what sounds horribly mundane to me must sound exotic to you.

Exactly. The idea is just to have a roster of names that fit together linguistically. If non-English speakers were gaming, sure, you'd ride through the town of Porkchop on the way from Drywall to Sofabed. And then in town you'd meet Chair Towel and Hat Beef. (Don't know if English is a consistent enough language to create that feel for non-English speakers. Without looking, it's possible I've just assembled loanwords from four different language families.)

Ravens_cry
2013-09-19, 03:42 PM
I go for names from the language of the culture I or the designer is basing the PC or NPC's culture on. Or if I just like the sound of it. For some seafaring orcs who had been pushed to coastal regions, having originally been a plains people, I use a Welsh words spoken with a guttural accent.

Destro_Yersul
2013-09-19, 05:34 PM
It can be pretty easy, as I illustrated upthread. I used German and French because they're semi-familiar to English speakers, but just far enough away for a fantasy world to work.

You can follow the same principles for more exotic-seeming settings by using non-Indo-European languages. I played in a campaign once where the GM "mined" Turkish for place- and people-names. Having Ozal the fighter and Ismet the mage adventure through Hurriyet gives a very different flavor than having Konrad Luitpold and Maximilian of Erfurt adventure stop in the town of Torgelow in the Kingdom of Ramsteid.

See, you and I agree that looting real-world names is a good idea. I was responding to the OP, who says that using real-world names is Bad and Artless.

Were you trying to argue against my point? Because agreeing with it is a terrible way to do that. :smalltongue:

johnbragg
2013-09-19, 07:07 PM
See, you and I agree that looting real-world names is a good idea. I was responding to the OP, who says that using real-world names is Bad and Artless.

Were you trying to argue against my point? Because agreeing with it is a terrible way to do that. :smalltongue:

No, I was giving a helpful tip, that if you use obscure (to your playing group) languages, you can have very exotic names with linguistic consistency, without having to generate a fake language to have the names fit together. Instead of raiding the atlas of Germany, raid Wikipedia pages in some language you've never heard of.

TheThan
2013-09-19, 09:26 PM
I just run with random name generators for most NPCs. For important ones I might start with a random name generator and then expand from there. For instance if I have a king, his unmarried daughter will have the same last name, that sort of stuff.

I try to make racial and ethnic names similar. If I choose not to, well there will probably be a backstory as to why.

Honest Tiefling
2013-09-19, 09:29 PM
I think real world names tend to be easier to remember, and while easy, can actually work quite well when the game is based off of a fantasy game of that culture that has done the research. Doesn't have to be exact, just lift enough ideas from the real world culture.

Rhynn
2013-09-19, 10:10 PM
I just pick some languages and take names off baby name websites. This usually sounds either appropriately thematic or appropriately fantastical.

For instance, one of my setting's realms uses Basque names, although I usually make it a point to alter some of the letters. Names like Eneko, Kusko, Txerran, and Zeru sound appropriately fantastical and foreign to my players (the only people that matter), but are also consistent. Fantastical names for their own sake get you the HârnWorld syndrome: unpronounceable names with no coherence or common thread. Bad names like that make the campaign worse, because players won't remember them.

Fable Wright
2013-09-19, 10:47 PM
A problem with trying to create cultures out of wholecloth is most players just aren't going to sit down and read through so much as two pages of language and customs and then remember it during gameplay. Even if I had the time or inclination to work out one or more conlangs for a setting, the more "at sea" my players feel the less roleplaying I'm going to get out of them. End of the day, I see better roleplaying in relatively familiar trappings, e.g "this country is vaguely Roman" "this kingdom is sorta like medieval France," and "these guys are kinda Vikings." NPC names should generally reinforce that, although it's good IMO to do research so you can get more creative than naming everybody Gaius or Louise. Most players IRL are not historians or anthropologists and will just feel lost if you try to immerse them in a wildly different culture (even one based on RL; I doubt if my players would be able or willing to navigate and roleplay in an Indian or Near Eastern influenced setting, as members of that culture).
There are a few exceptions to this. Most notably planescape, whose culture and even idioms of speech people do remember very well from their uniqueness and can lead to some quite amazing roleplaying.

It may be easier to get people to go along with cultures when they're generic, but the truly unique cultures stick with players when they're handled well, and the roleplaying of players getting acclimated to these new settings can be some of the best you can see. Just saying.

Rhynn
2013-09-19, 10:53 PM
There are a few exceptions to this. Most notably planescape, whose culture and even idioms of speech people do remember very well from their uniqueness and can lead to some quite amazing roleplaying.

It may be easier to get people to go along with cultures when they're generic, but the truly unique cultures stick with players when they're handled well, and the roleplaying of players getting acclimated to these new settings can be some of the best you can see. Just saying.

Planescape's distinctive culture is 19th century London, down to the cant. :smallamused:

Morithias
2013-09-19, 10:55 PM
I just steal names right out. Hell I steal characters right out. "Who's the Princess of the Mage country of Zeth?"

"Magic the Gandhi."

Makes it easy to remember, and usually people have never touched the games I steal them from (Hell the game Magic is from isn't even in english yet).

I find people don't usually complain too much.

Other than that I try to give them names that match who they are. "Princess Sen" for instance. Is based on "Sensou" the Japanese word for war. She is the 'war princess'. Helped by the fact that Sen isn't her real name.

Jay R
2013-09-19, 11:41 PM
It's very poor form to use real world names in fantasy, like "Artemis" or "Otto". It's highly unusual that a random culture with no connection to our world would have the same kinds of names that we have. All fantasy names should be different from our names, or at least not obviously taken from real life.

It is equally unlikely that a random culture with no connection to our world would have the same kinds of titles, weapons, cultures, holidays, animals or foods, yet we don't disapprove of seeing a king wearing a longsword surrounded by his court at high feast eating venison.

I have no idea where you got the idea that simulation was an unacceptable part of a game originally creating to simulate the adventures of people in medievally-based real-world marvelous tales. Using cultural names is no different from using elves, wizards, or anything else that appears in our fantasy stories.

Fable Wright
2013-09-19, 11:44 PM
Planescape's distinctive culture is 19th century London, down to the cant. :smallamused:

And who, among American audiences, knows 19th century London outside of a few movies set there that fail to portray what is was actually like?

Just because something's existed doesn't matter if the audience hasn't heard it before. And there is quite a lot of culture shock and love for the setting gained the first time a player enters Sigil, especially when it's entirely alien to them. There are no (American) sterotypes for them to draw from in the setting, which made it wonderfully unique to them.

Not sure how different it is on the other side of the Atlantic, though.

Rhynn
2013-09-20, 12:01 AM
And who, among American audiences, knows 19th century London outside of a few movies set there that fail to portray what is was actually like?

You were responding to Piedmon_Sama talking about "problem with trying to create cultures out of wholecloth." Planescape is really not an exception to what he's talking about (nor is it unique or less generic, culture-wise), insofar as it's even applicable - I own most of the sourcebooks & supplements, and can't say they portray much in the way of "culture" ... there's Sigil, and then there's planar hierarchies and places, and that's most of it. The 90% borrowed lingo does give a pretty good impression of distinctiveness, especially the way it's used throughout the books. Brilliant presentation, plain and simple.

Switching to "well not many people are familiar with it" is changing your argument, which is fine if you don't pretend you didn't.

Of course, that argument may not be the greatest, either: "Victorian London" is esoteric, now? There's been multiple big movies and two ongoing TV shows set there in the last few years... (I personally got my first dose of cant reading Michael Moorcock, which I guess qualifies as unusual reading in this day and age. I mean, who reads the subgenre of fantasy D&D was actually based on?!)


There are no (American) sterotypes for them to draw from in the setting, which made it wonderfully unique to them.

Are you saying there's no overlap between American and English stereotypes, in a work written by Americans for Americans? I don't think literature works that way, generally...

Fable Wright
2013-09-20, 12:50 AM
You were responding to Piedmon_Sama talking about "problem with trying to create cultures out of wholecloth."
I read his post as "relying on player stereotypes of cultures as a crutch to get them to remember said cultures." My argument was intended to be that immersing players in an entirely new environment where they don't have those stereotypes to fall back on can be a far more memorable experience.


Switching to "well not many people are familiar with it" is changing your argument, which is fine if you don't pretend you didn't.
It falls in line with the argument I was actually trying to use, though, that no background knowledge or basic framework of its culture can make for a more memorable experience. (Whether Planescape was an entirely new concept or just based on something that the audience hasn't experienced is irrelevant to the player seeing it for the first time.)


Of course, that argument may not be the greatest, either: "Victorian London" is esoteric, now? There's been multiple big movies and two ongoing TV shows set there in the last few years... (I personally got my first dose of cant reading Michael Moorcock, which I guess qualifies as unusual reading in this day and age. I mean, who reads the subgenre of fantasy D&D was actually based on?!)

Are you saying there's no overlap between American and English stereotypes, in a work written by Americans for Americans? I don't think literature works that way, generally...
In that case, we have very different perspectives of either Sigil or Victorian London (and have proved that I have no idea what I'm talking about when it comes to anything british). Admittedly, my exposure to Sigil is limited, as the only actual planescape book I've read is Expedition to the Demonweb Pits and people talking about the setting. However, I look at it and see the hive, a place where an Archon's tower can reveal prophesies guarded by overly zealous embodiments of good, the Styx Oarsman, Dabus that build people into prisons while they sleep, fallen angels and risen demons meeting in bars, and the vibe of a metropolis that has far more going on than meets the eye, and the Lady of Pain above it all to end things when they have become too disruptive, with no chance of revolt against her, and I fail to see anything from the Victorian London I've seen on television.

Admittedly, most of my exposure to Victorian England is not actually in London, instead focusing on the more spacious surrounding environs populated by plants. The only real insight I have into the city are from brief summaries of Charles Dickens's world that was read for a high school English class. (And having not read A Tale of Two Cities or Oliver Twist, I'm missing the presumably excellent look at Victorian London's culture that they would provide.) That, and horse-and-carriage stuff from Sherlock Holmes movies and the occasional set from Doctor Who that really don't seem much like Sigil at all. I thought that, if the Sigil I knew (which, admittedly, may be different or just a small part of the whole thing) was like Victorian London, Victorian London was certainly different than what I've seen on television. I presumed that works that I'm not familiar with that aren't very transatlantic would have the culture that you hold as similar to Sigil, but in hindsight that may just be me not paying attention to the right works.

Also, never heard of Michael Moorcock, so that may show you how skewed my perspective is.

Piedmon_Sama
2013-09-20, 02:50 AM
I don't have much to add except those slick black coaches you see in movies were actually covered in advertisements. (http://i.imgur.com/XT2Cotd.jpg)

ED: for serious, I've read a fair amount of historical fiction set in the Victorian period and if "cove" and "gammon" are in Planescape's flavor text they're not inventing **** :V

Fable Wright
2013-09-20, 08:15 AM
I don't have much to add except those slick black coaches you see in movies were actually covered in advertisements. (http://i.imgur.com/XT2Cotd.jpg)

ED: for serious, I've read a fair amount of historical fiction set in the Victorian period and if "cove" and "gammon" are in Planescape's flavor text they're not inventing **** :V

I can assure you, cove and gammon aren't part of the cant.

BWR
2013-09-20, 08:43 AM
my exposure to Sigil is limited, as the only actual planescape book I've read is Expedition to the Demonweb Pits .

That isn't a Planescape supplement.

Fable Wright
2013-09-20, 09:41 AM
That isn't a Planescape supplement.

Half the adventure takes place in Sigil and has planechase elements in parts, such as adventures in Zelatar, and it makes effort to get the DM to encompass the players in the Planescape setting. It's the next best thing, but no, it's not technically a supplement.

Morghen
2013-09-20, 11:39 AM
When giving your NPCs names, one thing to remember that I found to be really freeing is the fact that during the 1560s and 1570s in England, almost 30% of men were named John (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/christian/fairnames/givennames.html).

Ohiohi
2013-09-20, 01:36 PM
Stop looking at wikipedia in english, if you want to get real foreign names look for them in their language instead....
You can also search for sites like this (http://german.about.com/library/blname_Boys.htm) just typing "list of german names" or google transalte it in "Liste der Namen Deutsch"... internet's the limit, friends!

Malimar
2013-09-22, 09:05 PM
For PCs, I usually look up words that relate to my character on Wiktionary and find suitably euphonious foreign translations for those words.

When I'm in a pinch and need to come up with an NPC name fast, I usually use the "take a common English name and change one letter" trick.

Piedmon_Sama
2013-09-23, 01:49 PM
For the traditional Tolkien races (Elves, Orcs and Dwarves) I hove pretty closely to the sound and conventions Tolkien used. I feel it creates a solid connection to the "roots" of the archetypal fantasy races even if in that particular setting they're quite different. For Orcs in particular I look for words from online Akkadian lexicons. That Sumerian/Babylonian sound was what Tolkien was going for with his orcs (as he wanted them to sound completely different) so borrowing concepts like Gugalanna (the Great Bull of Heaven) or Babilum (the Gate of the Gods) works great for creating orc tribes, clans, etc.

Black Jester
2013-09-23, 03:08 PM
I suppose I should ask why you are adventuring through a town named "Liberty", but then again, I cannot possibly associate the name İsmet with mages, so I suppose what sounds horribly mundane to me must sound exotic to you.

Depending on the setting, an abstract setting like 'liberty' or 'hope' can work very well for a settlement (even though it is way too easy to make that name pointlessly ironic by turning Hope in some kind of junkyard and Liberty in a police state). I could, on the other hand, never use a place called Hürriyet, because my players would be utterly convinced that the place was named after a newspaper...

I actually don't like using modern languages or names for fantasy settings, because, well they are modern and that is practically the opposite of what I want in a fantasy setting. If there is one trope almost consistently used for all fantasy settings it is the very medieval concept of a greater past compared to the present, the idea that the now is inferior to the things which have come before and that the best the contemporary people could hope is to become dwarves on the shoulders of giants (not actual dwarves on actual giants, even though that is a pretty picture as well.)
This doesn't fit together very well when you could actually meet someone of the same name with a supposed fantasy name in real life (and that is awkward. One of my students has the same name as my dog, both named after a children book character. That doesn't make it very easy to deal with her).
So, my go-to sources for names are usually early medieval, migration period ones. They have this mediavistic sound I want, it is actually relatively unlikely to meet a Roderich, Tancred or Theophanu.

dolomite23
2014-04-10, 09:19 AM
For the past ten years of my Hackmaster games I usually use form of Blaxploitation for names. Some are Coco Tonguebath (thief), Sheba Sugarfist (monk), Dante Hammerpants (my dwarf). Onyx Gamehater (thief)

Airk
2014-04-10, 10:30 AM
Yeah, no razzing on Tolkien about his letter choices. That man had forgotten more about languages than anyone in this thread will ever know. :P

There is value in using real world names because they can be a useful shorthand for certain traits, and because it's far, far easier to say "Okay, this culture all has Roman-sounding names and this one has old English sounding names and this one has vaguely Germanic sounding names" than it is to try to build your own vaguely coherent linguistic rules to delineate cultures. If you have time for that, you should be spending it on something of more value to your game. :P Real-worldish names are often easier for players to remember as well.

On the other hand, if you don't CARE about any of that, you might as well make up random names or using a random name generator. Just be advised that your players won't remember any of them anyway.

Edit: Found it! (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=854)

The Glyphstone
2014-04-10, 11:17 AM
Any time I need to name an NPC, it'll be something like Nathan Patrick Charleston, or Natasha Pamela Corwyn. Substitute as needed for equivalent 'foreign/exotic' cultures.

jedipotter
2014-04-12, 01:40 PM
A problem with trying to create cultures out of wholecloth is most players just aren't going to sit down and read through so much as two pages of language and customs and then remember it during gameplay.

One of the nice things about using a published setting, is that it will lay out a bit of the ground work for this type of thing. So the players don't start out a zero. They will have a bit to go on from the start.


For quick names, I often use last names as first names. So Bob Zimmermen, becomes Zimmermen the gnome.

Place names also work great. My players stil fear the red dragon Eyjafjallajökull (from the Iceland Volcano).

Fiery Diamond
2014-04-12, 03:16 PM
Any time I need to name an NPC, it'll be something like Nathan Patrick Charleston, or Natasha Pamela Corwyn. Substitute as needed for equivalent 'foreign/exotic' cultures.

Did... did a MOD just post in a necroed thread without noticing it? What is this world coming to? It's the end of the world!

... I didn't notice it was necroed until I realized I recognized one of the posts and then looked at the date.

The Glyphstone
2014-04-12, 08:14 PM
Did... did a MOD just post in a necroed thread without noticing it? What is this world coming to? It's the end of the world!

... I didn't notice it was necroed until I realized I recognized one of the posts and then looked at the date.

Hey, mods are people too.:smallwink: But thanks for pointing it out.

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2014-04-12, 08:48 PM
I go with real names and real languages, to get internal consistency. For example, just north of the Tiflinium Empire, with it's capital of Urbvetus, north of the region of Susicivus, are the tribes of the Pochner, the main 3 tribes being the Bolnishoyn, the Benliki, and the Nipravda. On the opposite side of the world, King Guddfrid Tungasvard, of the Rikenorr, looks jealously at the rich and divided kingdom of Heim, with King Theodoric Nureisbein leading one side from Wahrkirch, and Chlodowig Edlen leading the other from Konigsbruck. Meanwhile, Herman Uhren of Meerende has declared himself an independent King.

Finno-Ugric languages work well for Elves, so you have the only large Elvish realm of Etela, or Vinrea. I also really like Romanian as a Tolkien-ish language. I mean, Alexandru Coconul rules the Kingdom of Evavlios from Soaursul. I love that the suffixes I can use for their cities are -sul and -oras. Reminds one of Amon Sul. And I shamelessly stole the idea of Anglo-Saxon horse-riders. Because Bertred the Golden is Earl of Sussolk, from Stanmere.

I like to fit names to cultures similar to them. So the gnomes are Dutch because they live in a swamp delta. Mind you, then I have the Welsh Dwarves, because I wanted to have the Dwarves be Welsh, so...

Slipperychicken
2014-04-12, 09:20 PM
I usually use the SeventhSanctum Quick Name Generator (http://www.seventhsanctum.com/generate.php?Genname=quickname). People are amazed by how bland and generic my characters names are. One day I'm going to start GMing, and almost every non-important NPC will have a name drawn from that very generator.

When I make them myself, they're usually taken by some pop culture reference I hadn't heard before (So far.. I made a crusader whose first name was shared by a fellow player and whose last name was "Payne", wizard named "Bayne" [a few months before the batman movie came out], a Rogue named "Zach Wilder", and a Street Samurai whose handle was "Sgt. Slader").

ElenionAncalima
2014-04-14, 08:02 AM
I guess I am lazy and boring for NPCs. I assign a cultural naming convention to a certain region then I spam the Behind the Name generator until I get a name that I like for that character. For Elves and Dwarves I use Elven and Dwarven name generators. I do this for two major reasons:

1. My players aren't great at remembering names. It makes it much easier for them remember names and take notes if the NPCs are named Edgar and Henrietta, instead of Xardicon and Inglerica.

2. Using the generators allows me to come up with setting consistent NPCs during the game, when players ask the name of an unplanned NPC. It prevents an Aerith and Bob scenario from occuring.

For PCs I am a little less random. After I created a backstory, I will usually browse name sites looking for a name with a meaning and sound that fits the character.

Jay R
2014-04-14, 01:11 PM
For NPCs, I usually have an underlying culture in mind, and use that. When the players bump into Alfgar, Edmund, and Beorthelm, they know the culture is more-or-less Saxonish.

For PCs I usually do the same, often discussing it with the DM in advance, to find out if there are any linguistic themes I can use.

Sometimes there are hidden jokes. My elf named his horse Glorfain, which means "gold cloud" in Elvish. Only a real movie nerd will recognize Golden Cloud as the horse bought by Roy Rogers and re-named "Trigger".

And I once named two dwarven brothers, whose five brothers had been slain by a dragon, Doli and Felix. With a little linguistic knowledge, you might identify them as Grumpy and Happy.

Many of your general rules are based on assumptions about either naming practices or gaming practices that, while true in your games, are not true in others.


Sometimes I combine the names of the existing NPCs. For example: Tenser + Xodast = Tendast.

That's a good linguistic naming practice. The Saxons have Alfgar and Edmund, and you can make Alfmund, etc.


I try to use double vowels and grave/acute pitch vowels with moderation. E.g. one NPC could be "Hagár" and another "Ringaar". I always avoid ending names with double consonant because it's incredibly cheesy, like "Maxx".

Bill, Ann, Jill, Glenn, and Jeff don't seem that cheesy to me, but I understand your point. The question is what that does in that culture. Uiliacc is a perfectly good Celtic name.

And since I usually have a linguistic tradition in mind, I use diacritical marks only when appropriate. (Though I plan to name my next rogue Romeo Rascál, on the model of the OotS's Julio.)


I've noticed that my male characters' names usually end with "n" and female names usually end with "a". I want to help my players to differentiate the male and female NPC names. I also like names ending with "i".

Yup. That goes back to inflected languages with gender. Most Romance names ending in -a are feminine, because of the grammar rules. Note that names ending in -o are usually masculine, and Mediterranean (Mario, Julio, etc.).


It's very poor form to use real world names in fantasy, like "Artemis" or "Otto". It's highly unusual that a random culture with no connection to our world would have the same kinds of names that we have. All fantasy names should be different from our names, or at least not obviously taken from real life.

I disagree completely. I have no problem with a fantasy story in which the king is named Arthur, the leader is named Jason, the hero's companion is named Sam, or the giant-slayer is named David. King Arthur, Jason and the Argonauts, Lord of the Rings, and David & Goliath are the kinds of stories I'm trying to create.

Rhynn
2014-04-14, 06:17 PM
That's a good linguistic naming practice. The Saxons have Alfgar and Edmund, and you can make Alfmund, etc.

I actually just recently broke up tons of Germanic (Ancient Germanic, Anglo-Saxon, Gothic, and Norse) names into elements and laid them out into tables with translations, as part of a Middle-Earth Northon language/name project I did. Hundreds and hundreds of names right there! I particularly like the ae/a/e, e/i, dh/th/d, v/w, o/u, and other variations that can be used to distinguish similar languages from each other... e.g. Adalwolf and Aethelwulf and Edhelwulf are the same name.

So, for instance, one tribe would use then ame Fridbern; another Frithbeorn; another Fridberen; and the last Fridhrbjorn.