Skill rank requirement abuse!

[WebTiefling]

I just asked my DM about moving my just-gained-level-4 Cleric character towards a Dweomerkeeper direction, and he said fine. He also said I could start taking the PrC as the level the character had just gained.

Deomerkeeper require 8 ranks in some skills and at level 4, I only have 7, at most.

"No," he said, "it's your total score in the skill. You had +6 in each, and your Int gives +2, total of 8. You qualify."

I'm pretty sure that's not how it works. Right?

If that is how it works, then I've screwed that up for forever.

I'm pretty sure he doesn't have it right, but I need some confirmation.

However, I'm definitely NOT going to tell him if he's wrong. Getting the Dweomerkeeper's fourth level ability at character level 7 is going to open up a BIG can o' worms for the DM.

*evil chortling*

[Mirakk]

No, you read that correctly and your DM is wrong in this case.

It says "8 RANKS". Thus you must have 8 ranks in the skill. Your modifiers, if any, do not matter.

Unless he's decided to house rule otherwise. Usually they post this ahead of time.

[WebTiefling]

He's relatively new to DM-ing. I will correct him AFTER this campaign is over. :smallwink:

[Occasional Sage]

He's relatively new to DM-ing. I will correct him AFTER this campaign is over. :smallwink:

That is terrible. Don't be that guy.

[Fax Celestis]

That is terrible. Don't be that guy.

Seriously.

[Doc_Maynot]

Seriously.

Like for realz, yo.

[OverdrivePrime]

Like for realz, yo.

Word.

Don't let this be your wizard hat:
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w219/mwellenstein/ScumbagSteveHat_zps3340e4de.png

[Morgarion]

Doesn't dweomerkeeper also require the ability to cast arcane spells? Are you getting that from somewhere else?

[Ashtagon]

Word.

Don't let this be your wizard hat:
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w219/mwellenstein/ScumbagSteveHat_zps3340e4de.png

What they said.

[WebTiefling]

Relax. I'm planning on taking Dweomerkeeper anyway; I'll just be getting it a few levels earlier. If I were going to heavily abuse the ability, the serious stuff wouldn't open up until at least level 9, by which point I would have the ability already anyway.

Call Zelekut for no XP cost each day at level 9 is a bit abusive and I would be able to do that whether I get Dweomerkeeper early or not.

A costless Restoration, Divination, or Glyph of Warding each day is just little stuff. And it benefits the party, not just me, so I don't feel too bad about it.

If the campaign goes all the way up to 13th or 14th level where the Dweomerkeeper's tenth level capstone comes into play, that might cause issues since I'm my plan is a DMM Persist cleric, and I would be able to squeeze in another Persist or two.

I don't think it'll get to that point, though.

We're running a moderate cheese campaign - he lets everyone take Leadership if they want it! :smalltongue:

[Yuki Akuma]

So... you posted a thread about you taking advantage of a new DM's imprecise grasp of the rules, and get defensive when people call you out on it?

What exactly were you expecting people to do? Congratulate you for cheating?

[Dusk Eclipse]

It isn't that Dweomer Keeper is strong, is the fact that you are lying to your DM, who is new to the game. That is not cool, I can't phantom why the hell would you want to do that.

[Kafana]

Scumbag Steve, is that you?

[Hamste]

...this isn't cheese. This is not correcting your dm on a mistake you know of and then benefiting from it. That is just cheating and quite unsportsmanlike behavior. It doesn't matter if you cheat a bit or a lot it is still cheating. Correct your dm and ask about keeping it instead of cheating

[WebTiefling]

So... you posted a thread about you taking advantage of a new DM's imprecise grasp of the rules, and get defensive when people call you out on it?

What exactly were you expecting people to do? Congratulate you for cheating?

Congratulate? No.

This would raise red flags for me too, if I were to see it. I'm just saying I'm not going to use it until it is legal to use it anyway.

Like I said, he runs medium cheese campaigns and a LOT of house rules. If he were a strict by-the-RAW DM, I would mention this to him, but as it is, I'll hold off until it would be legal anyway.

Don't worry, he'll get a good laugh out of it too. He might even adopt it as an ongoing house rule.

[WebTiefling]

...this isn't cheese. This is not correcting your dm on a mistake you know of and then benefiting from it. That is just cheating and quite unsportsmanlike behavior. It doesn't matter if you cheat a bit or a lot it is still cheating. Correct your dm and ask about keeping it instead of cheating

Yes, I know it's cheating, and I know it's not cheese.

I also know my DM, and he's going to get a laugh out of it and congratulate me on getting one past him. That's the way his games roll.

[Kafana]

Don't worry, he'll get a good laugh out of it too. He might even adopt it as an ongoing house rule.

Yes, and Walter White is a saint.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Yes, I know it's cheating, and I know it's not cheese.

I also know my DM, and he's going to get a laugh out of it and congratulate me on getting one past him. That's the way his games roll.

If that is the case, I wouldn't play in that kind of game, there is a line between cheese and outright cheating.

[WebTiefling]

Yes, and Walter White is a saint.

If that is the case, I wouldn't play in that kind of game, there is a line between cheese and outright cheating.

I can imagine that it would be frustrating to some people. He was doing DM-ing stories for friends before he ever had rules to work with, and so his approach to them is ... loose. We all do as much cheating (and realize it's cheating) as we think is fun for everyone.

I'm sure it's not everyone's style of game play, but it works for us.

[WebTiefling]

Yes, and Walter White is a saint.

Who is Walter White?

[Syrinth]

Reiterating that that is a horrible thing to do. If/when he finds out, prepare to be in trouble.

[Hamste]

Who is Walter White?

A character from breaking bad I believe...needless to say he is not a saint.

[WebTiefling]

Ahhh, I've never started on Breaking Bad. Not my cup o' tea.

Now, Sherlock, that's my style! If they would only stop pushing back the season 3 start date!!!

[Morgarion]

I'm sorry, but I'm still really curious; did your DM excuse or misinterpret the arcane casting requirement, or is there some assumption about how you fulfilled it that I'm not in on? Or did it just get completely forgotten?

[WebTiefling]

I'm sorry, but I'm still really curious; did your DM excuse or misinterpret the arcane casting requirement, or is there some assumption about how you fulfilled it that I'm not in on? Or did it just get completely forgotten?

The character is a Dwarf. (wildly homebrew - he can cast a 2d6 Fireball spell once per day as an SLA and can put fire enchantments onto magic weapons for free!! WTF!?!)

Cl 1 / Wiz 1 / Cl 1. Magic and Planning domains, and Persistent Spell metamagic as my first level feat. We started at level 2.

I've heard there is a feat to get the arcane spells and stay pure Cleric, but since we started at level 2, and he's infamous for tossing bizarrely tough challenges at us, I wanted as many spells available as possible right at the beginning. That, and the Scribe Scroll that comes with Wizard qualifies me for making a magic item, which is also required for Dweomerkeeper.

It's not crazy optimized, but it works for now.

[Ashtagon]

Tell him it's not RAW. Right now, he believes it is RAW, so come the day he wants to play by RAW, he'll be in for a shock. It's fine to play fast and loose with the rules, but that should be done knowing that you are playing fast and loose with the rules.

[Morgarion]

Cl 1 / Wiz 1 / Cl 1. Magic and Planning domains, and Persistent Spell metamagic as my first level feat. We started at level 2.

Ah. I thought it was just Cleric 4.

[Logic]

Word.

Don't let this be your wizard hat:
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w219/mwellenstein/ScumbagSteveHat_zps3340e4de.png

Now, whenever I read the blood-ninja chronicles, I shall imagine this is the Wizard Hat he dons.

[Kafana]

I've never started on Breaking Bad.

That's even worse than cheating. Go watch it, it's awesome.

[WebTiefling]

Oh, I forgot. We get all the Flaws we want. I am the picture of restraint compared to the rest of the party since I only took two flaws. We have a Monk Gnome who has five of them. :smallbiggrin:

Ashtagon, maybe I haven't fully communicated how little the rules count in his games except for the basic structure of how to determine hits/saves/dam etc. I will definitely tell him about the RAW of skill rank requirements. He won't really care, and he'll think it was funny that I got Dweomerkeeper early.

Just to make it extra funny when I let him know, I might take a single level of Contemplative (also skill rank requirements) next level just because he'll think it's funnier when I do tell him.

That's how he rolls.

I've played for DMs who are more serious about following the rules, and I wouldn't even consider something that this for them, but for Z I'll do it.