Dread Necro vs Constructs

[Lokiramza]

Hello everyone, Long time lurker first time poster.

I'm having a bit of a rough time in my current campaign getting anything useful done. Its turned into a war vs constructs and Dread Necro is sorely lacking in ways to deal with them. Was hoping someone could toss a few suggestions out to ease my personal suffering haha.


Dread Necromancer 8
Naenhoon Illumian/Necropolitian

Str 15(15) +2
Dex 16(18) +4
Con -
Int 16(16) +3
Wis 16(16) +3
Cha 20(24) +7

Feats:
Extend
Persist
Versatile spellcaster (Bonus feat from Taint)
Touchstone (city of the dead)
Stats include changes from items ect in (). Pretty stock standard Necro so far. The touchstone was for going into sandshaper tho I'm not sure thats even a good idea anymore. Luckly feat retraining is allowed.

Any suggestions for dealing with hordes of constructs (warforged titans ad a Juggernaut have shown up so far) would be immensely appreciated.

[Fouredged Sword]

Well, they have crappy willsaves, but immunity to fear. Taking dread witch will let you bypass the immunity and drive them fleeing before your auras of fear!

[Grod_The_Giant]

Sandshaper will get you a whole bundle of new spells, many of which can be useful against constructs-- there are some party buffs, some summons, even some SR: No blasts.

You can also start working yourself into a minion master. Zombies will do just fine punching robots, after all.

[Lokiramza]

I'll take another gander at the sandshaper list and see what they provide me vs Constructs. Also I guess when in doubt swarm it with zombies could work short term.

The overbearing problem the party currently faces is 36 warforged titans marching towards our base of operation. Looking for a more longterm solution for handling a full on encroaching army.

[unseenmage]

Constructs are expensive, undead are cheap. Depending on the situation you could just outfinance them.
Undead creation is also measured in rounds where Construct creation is measured in weeks. That's another area I would try to exploit were I you.

Are you being matched pound for pound for your volume of Undead with a similar volume of Constructs at every turn? If so (with the above in mind) how and why?

[Snowbluff]

Dread Necromancer 8


Make an army. Outnumber them. Summon Undead. Create Undead. Control undead. You can have 88 HD of created undead, right?

[Psyren]

Make an army. Outnumber them. Summon Undead. Create Undead. Control undead. You can have 88 HD of created undead, right?

This. Get some heavy-hitting zombies and beat the gently caress out of those robot scum.

[unseenmage]

I'll take another gander at the sandshaper list and see what they provide me vs Constructs. Also I guess when in doubt swarm it with zombies could work short term.

The overbearing problem the party currently faces is 36 warforged titans marching towards our base of operation. Looking for a more longterm solution for handling a full on encroaching army.

Barring DM fiat, Warforged are living things and can be resurrected in undeath.
There's even fluff backing this up in the Woeforged.

There are even many straight Constructs that can be turned into different kinds of Undead. For example, Skeletons just required that the creature have a skeletal structure, even a Warforged Titan has that.

[Lokiramza]

Outnumbering them is proving to be the biggest problem. 36 warforged titans (dr10/adamanatine) are nothing to sneeze at flanked on either side by Warforged and Juggernauts (the ones with dr 20). Its a pretty nasty situation and I'm not sure I can throw enough flesh at them before they breach the walls and just kick our asses or overcome their DR in a meaningful way. Couple in the fact that constructs arent phased by necromancy in general and I'm in quite a pickle.

Our swordsage is doing a bit of damage but not enough to chew thru that much metal in reasonable amount of time.

The feel of the adventure so far is very Attack on Titan for you anime fans.

[Snowbluff]

The feel of the adventure so far is very Attack on Titan for you anime fans.
That predictable teenage slasher flick? :smalltongue:

[unseenmage]

Outnumbering them is proving to be the biggest problem. 36 warforged titans (dr10/adamanatine) are nothing to sneeze at flanked on either side by Warforged and Juggernauts (the ones with dr 20). Its a pretty nasty situation and I'm not sure I can throw enough flesh at them before they breach the walls and just kick our asses or overcome their DR in a meaningful way. Couple in the fact that constructs arent phased by necromancy in general and I'm in quite a pickle.

Our swordsage is doing a bit of damage but not enough to chew thru that much metal in reasonable amount of time.

The feel of the adventure so far is very Attack on Titan for you anime fans.
Emphasis mine.

From the Eberron Campaign Setting entry on Warforged racial traits,

—Unlike other constructs, warforged are subject
to critical hits, nonlethal damage, stunning, ability
damage, ability drain, and death effects or necromancy
effects.
Again emphasis mine.

So I'm not seeing the problem. Don't get me wrong, if you're outnumbered then you're outnumbered. But in that case Constructs aren't your problem, numbers are.
And bolstering the number of your troops and reducing the number of theirs becomes your solution. Just like any battle ever.

Edit: Knowing how much preparation time and what your resources currently are would help you get useful advice. A lot.

[Lokiramza]

Warforged Titans say they are immune to such things.

A warforged titan has immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, necromancy effects, mind-affecting spells and abilities (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects), and any effect that requires a Fortitude save unless it also works on objects or is harmless. It is not subject to extra damage from critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, or energy drain. It cannot heal damage, but it can be repaired.

As for prep time we have plenty. We have currently snuck out of the city in order to gather supplies/information (and undead :smallcool:). If you have any ideas lay them on me.

[Vaz]

Finding lots of dead bodies; Survival skill for nearby recent battle sites, Knowledge History for ancient burial grounds. Usse them to hit constructs.

Open up your Spell-list; Arcane Disciple, or Sand Shaper are good ones to use.

[Lokiramza]

At level 9 I was planning on taking both of those options for extra spells. Was thinking pride domain for Persist shenanigans. But if there are any other options that help I'm all for it. Unfortunately I'm currently the dead weight of the party due to the majority of my spell list just not working.

[Fouredged Sword]

Dragon zombie of a rust dragon sounds like a potential idea. It can fly over them and rain down it's breath weapon until they are dead.

[unseenmage]

Warforged Titans say they are immune to such things.

A warforged titan has immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, necromancy effects, mind-affecting spells and abilities (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects), and any effect that requires a Fortitude save unless it also works on objects or is harmless. It is not subject to extra damage from critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, or energy drain. It cannot heal damage, but it can be repaired.

As for prep time we have plenty. We have currently snuck out of the city in order to gather supplies/information (and undead :smallcool:). If you have any ideas lay them on me.

What kind of wealth do you have and what are your scruples regarding the illegal acquisition of funds? What's the state of the Magic-Mark in your campaign? Any decent UMD checks in your group?

Because like all things your problems can be solved with the creative application of magic.
The two simplest options that spring to mind are;
MIC has Domain Draught which can grant your Warforged Domain from Eberron which allows you to IIRC Turn/Rebuke Constructs as though they were Undead.
And the Arms and Equipment Guide has the Rod of Construct Control which will let you straight up control any Construct "as though you were it's creator". Which for Warforged might mean nothing since they are created with free will.


Edit:

At level 9 I was planning on taking both of those options for extra spells. Was thinking pride domain for Persist shenanigans. But if there are any other options that help I'm all for it. Unfortunately I'm currently the dead weight of the party due to the majority of my spell list just not working.

I suspect your spell list works just fine, against living fleshy creatures.
Which is still a useful thing as that just means you don't need to raid battlesights for undead.
And like I said before, the normal Warforged will fall and should be able to be animated just like any other living creature.

[Lokiramza]

DM bans arms and equipment guide for some reason I'll never understand tho the MIC is legal.


As for acquiring funds my character has zero issues with the problem (nuetral evil and all that)

[Bonzai]

I had a similar problem with my Truenamer. The DM ruled that the true namer's ability to overcome spell resistance, could not over come a golems magic immunity (a spell resistance that is un-overcome able). This meant that I couldn't directly effect golems at all (and I was extremely crappy in melee).

So I had only two options;

1. Buff and improve my companions. If you have an uber minion or two (or party members), focus on buffing them up as much as possible to take them down.

2. Get items. You get access to Use Magical device, so you can use it. One item in particular helped my True Namer a ton, and that was a Harrow Rod from the Magic Item Compendium. For 14k you can create a 30ft cone of acid that deals 9d6 damage, 3 times per day. Ironically, that item did better damage than my character could. It's not that expensive. Acid effects objects, and therefore not subject to SR.

3. Expand your spell list. Sadly not an option for a true namer, but it is for you. Some one mentioned Sandshaper, which is a nice dip for a Dread Necro (1 level dip, create black sand, shape it into some undergarments, and you have some persistant healing for undead (1d4 per round) and yourself potentially with the tomb tainted soul feat. Plus a permanent darkness spell if you need it).

Oh... another thing to consider... In the PHB2, Warmages have an alternative class feature that lets them trade in their advanced learning for "Eclectic Learning". Dread Necro's also have the advanced learning class feature. Ask your DM if he would be opposed to being able to swap it for Eclectic Learning too. Then you could grab a spell or two that helps you out against bad match ups.

Oh, and the awaken undead spell restores any EX abilities the creature had. A Rust Monsters ability is EX. A small army of awakened rest monster zoombies may force the warforge army to negotiate.

[unseenmage]

DM bans arms and equipment guide for some reason I'll never understand tho the MIC is legal.


As for acquiring funds my character has zero issues with the problem (nuetral evil and all that)

Do you have access to the Corpsecrafted and Spellstitched options for undead? Cuz if so it is on.

It's another 3.0 thing but the spell Create Crawling Claw makes severed hands into little Constructs that you control by the bucketful. And it's a Spellstitch-able spell. Suddenly all your best Int Undead are Spellstitched and have a pile of crawling Construct hands following them around.

How about a Wight-ocalypse? Or is that too much cheese? How about finding yourself a pet Vampire who can Dominate an army for you?
Edit: One scroll of Gate and you can call a wight or vampire to command too.

I suggest you wander up behind the badguys, slay and undead-ify a small town/city and march on them from behind with your superior numbers of Undead controlling Undead controlling Undead.

[Snowbluff]

DM bans arms and equipment guide for some reason I'll never understand tho the MIC is legal.


As for acquiring funds my character has zero issues with the problem (nuetral evil and all that)

If you need to get around DR, you can pick up weapon crystals for your undead minions.

[Volthawk]

So what's the rest of the group made up of? What kind of resources/allies/minions do you have access to? Asking since a single Warforged Titan is CR-equivalent (36, not accounting the supporting constructs are CR 18 - sure CR isn't perfect, but that still says something) so in order to take down an army of them you'll need more than you and your undead.

And that's not counting these juggernauts (and that seems wonky too, given this DR 20 - Juggernaut gives no extra DR, and to get that from feats, these juggernauts would need...22 feats - Adamantine Body, eighteen applications of Improved Damage Reduction and PA+Improved Bull Rush for Juggernaut's prereqs), which would be at the least level 6 each (given that Juggernaut's a PrC that needs +5 BAB).

[Lokiramza]

Do you have access to the Corpsecrafted and Spellstitched options for undead? Cuz if so it is on.

It's another 3.0 thing but the spell Create Crawling Claw makes severed hands into little Constructs that you control by the bucketful. And it's a Spellstitch-able spell. Suddenly all your best Int Undead are Spellstitched and have a pile of crawling Construct hands following them around.

How about a Wight-ocalypse? Or is that too much cheese? How about finding yourself a pet Vampire who can Dominate an army for you?
Edit: One scroll of Gate and you can call a wight or vampire to command too.

I suggest you wander up behind the badguys, slay and undead-ify a small town/city and march on them from behind with your superior numbers of Undead controlling Undead controlling Undead.
Haha that all sounds hilarious. What books are the Hands from?

If you need to get around DR, you can pick up weapon crystals for your undead minions.
I'm not familiar with weapon crystals where are they from?

So what's the rest of the group made up of? What kind of resources/allies do you have access to? Asking since a single Warforged Titan is CR-equivalent (36, not accounting the supporting constructs are CR 18 - sure CR isn't perfect, but that still says something) so in order to take down an army of them you'll need more than you and your undead.

We have city walls, an airship and whatever NPCs the city itself contains which so far haven't been overly useful. The near hopelessness of the situation seems to be the theme.

As for the rest of the party we have a
Monk/Swordsage/Settingsun Ninja
Ranger/Swanmay
Rogue/assassin (combat rogue purely)

As for my current undead I have
2x Fhorge (fiend folio)
1x Rot Reaver (still has his axes. MM2 or 3 I forget which)
and a handfull of Mummies and Wraiths.

[John Longarrow]

In addition to Corps Crafter, make your undead in an unhallowed area for the extra HPs.

Were I you, I'd also find giant skeletons. Trolls are good, but any true giant should have the raw strength to cut through DR. Skeletons have two major advantages over zombies in this kind of fight. First, they have half the HD so you can control twice as many. Second, they keep full attacks. Your goal is to hit and hit hard. A 12 HD zombie can at best do a partial charge and has a BAB of 6. 6 HD skeleton can do a full attack with a BAB of 3. You get more attacks from a pair of skeletons for the same cost/control limit.

[unseenmage]

Haha that all sounds hilarious. What books are the Hands from?

I'm not familiar with weapon crystals where are they from?


We have city walls, an airship and whatever NPCs the city itself contains which so far haven't been overly useful. The near hopelessness of the situation seems to be the theme.

As for the rest of the party we have a
Monk/Swordsage/Settingsun Ninja
Ranger/Swanmay
Rogue/assassin (combat rogue purely)

As for my current undead I have
2x Fhorge (fiend folio)
1x Rot Reaver (still has his axes. MM2 or 3 I forget which)
and a handfull of Mummies and Wraiths.

Crawling Claw Magic of Faerun, Spell Level 3, there's also a Crawling Claws in the BoVD so don't be confused.

There's also the spell Grim Revenge from Lost Empires of Faerun that tears off the victim's hand and makes it a mini wraith I think.

Corpsecrafter is a feat from Libris Mortis.

Spellstitched is a purchasable player applicable template from Complete Arcane (MM2 first but it was reprinted/revised).

The Crystals are from the MIC.
You should also look into Necklace of Natural Attacks (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20060707a).

And did I read that right? You already have Wights and are having trouble with numbers?

Also, Undead leadership, make your Intelligent Undead take it and make them control Int Cohorts who also take it, etc.

[Volthawk]

Titans have no ranged capabilities, and Juggernauts are melee-focused, so perhaps looking into flying minions/mounts may be useful. Those two types would be reliant on an area outside their focus (if they even are equipped for it), leaving the standard guys to worry about (see below).

Also, some advice: Do not let yourself get too distracted by the big tough guys. Those standard warforged could have any kind of tricks up their sleeves - they could have casters, sneaky types, ranged specialists, anything - and the general 3.5 thing of 'deal with the casters ASAP' still stands (particularly if this will be an extended siege situation - without magic, warforged have to spend time and make Craft checks to repair themselves, and the feat that allows for regular constructs to be repaired - Craft Construct - requires a caster anyway, so taking out the guys capable of healing/repairing would cripple them, while you can just recoup your losses from the fallen standard warforged and lost allies, and you're an infinite battery of undead healing). The titans and juggernauts are pretty easy to predict - they'll charge in and start smashing. The warforged aren't so predictable, and if you go for the flight plan, they'll be the biggest threat.

[Vortenger]

You have wraiths? Last I checked, unless there's a war weaver or something else to enchant their weaponry, I believe your incorporeal undead can do skirmish attacks and the 'forged couldn't do much in recompense. Incorporeal alone wins many fights, BAB and HD are irrelevant if they can't hit back...

[unseenmage]

Titans have no ranged capabilities, and Juggernauts are melee-focused, so perhaps looking into flying minions/mounts may be useful. Those two types would be reliant on an area outside their focus (if they even are equipped for it), leaving the standard guys to worry about (see below).

Also, some advice: Do not let yourself get too distracted by the big tough guys. Those standard warforged could have any kind of tricks up their sleeves - they could have casters, sneaky types, ranged specialists, anything - and the general 3.5 thing of 'deal with the casters ASAP' still stands (particularly if this will be an extended siege situation - without magic, warforged have to spend time and make Craft checks to repair themselves, and the feat that allows for regular constructs to be repaired - Craft Construct - requires a caster anyway, so taking out the guys capable of healing/repairing would cripple them, while you can just recoup your losses from the fallen standard warforged and lost allies, and you're an infinite battery of undead healing). The titans and juggernauts are pretty easy to predict - they'll charge in and start smashing. The warforged aren't so predictable, and if you go for the flight plan, they'll be the biggest threat.

Seconding this, and use that Airship. Just an Airship and a flight or two of airborne undead with rocks can kill just about anything if said thing can't fly up and retaliate.

[Lokiramza]

So far my attempts to seek out individual types of creatures/undead have proved pretty fruitless. What I acquire is made up from random encounters/random murders around the area.

[unseenmage]

So far my attempts to seek out individual types of creatures/undead have proved pretty fruitless. What I acquire is made up from random encounters/random murders around the area.

As mentioned, scroll of Gate gets you any creature you want. Period. If it's in the universe chances are it's on a plane. And even if the undead you seek is only on the Prime Material you could still Plane Shift and cast Gate from another plane.

And even if these spells aren't on your lists you can still buy Scrolls of them and Use Magic Device check them.

Seriously, with a reasonable amount of prep-time, access to funds, and access to a magic item selling source (like say a small city) you can buy what you need to make what you need to do anything you want.

Which brings up a good question, what level of cheese is allowed in your game? How bada** is too bada**?

[Volthawk]

To be honest, I'd say your best bet would be letting minions handle (or at least slow down) the big bruisers while using your more powerful guys (including you) to take out the priority targets among the others, which would primarily be enemy casters (because like I said, without a solid renewable source of healing/new construct minions, they'll have a very hard time out-attritioning your undead).

The wights are kinda useful - although they don't have the 'everything killed is a wight' thing against forged (that just working on humanoids), deaths through negative levels still make wights just fine. The mummies are also kinda useful, as everything is immune to mummy rot, although Despair works fine on normal forged.

[unseenmage]

To be honest, I'd say your best bet would be letting minions handle (or at least slow down) the big bruisers while using your more powerful guys (including you) to take out the priority targets among the others, which would primarily be enemy casters (because like I said, without a solid renewable source of healing/new construct minions, they'll have a very hard time out-attritioning your undead).

The wights are kinda useful - although they don't have the 'everything killed is a wight' thing against forged (that just working on humanoids), deaths through negative levels still make wights just fine. The mummies are also kinda useful, as everything is immune to mummy rot, although Despair works fine on normal forged.

He also said he's NE so Wight-ocalypse is still a useful option. Especially with the travel speed of an Airship (which was also mentioned among their options).
Step 1: Find nearby settlement.
Step 2: Wight-ocalypse.
Step 3: All other steps are irrelevant.

[Volthawk]

He also said he's NE so Wight-ocalypse is still a useful option. Especially with the travel speed of an Airship (which was also mentioned among their options).
Step 1: Find nearby settlement.
Step 2: Wight-ocalypse.
Step 3: All other steps are irrelevant.

True, I wasn't considering that angle. Still works with my plan, though (it just means the guys you throw head-on will be more numerous, and you probably will have a large enough horde to support your own strikes with wights).

[John Longarrow]

Lokiramza,

Gotta ask, what is in it for your character to save this city? Your 8th level and NE. Why care if the city gets pounded? I'm assuming they have a big payoff in mind.

That said, get the folks who's butts you are saving to caught up where you can find the kinds of creatures you want to kill/raise. If the city is important enough to warrant getting invaded like this, I'll bet they have a tame wizard that can teleport you where you need to go to grab materials. If they don't, in character you've got a good reason to ditch this place and come back to pick up the pieces later.

P.S. Why travel around with a good guy like the setting sun ninja?

[Lokiramza]

To answer the above post.

This is a continuation from a previous campaign and I guess it does demand a bit of an explanation on why My toon cares and is happily grouped with good guys.

The city was under the affects of a zombie plague(propagated by my character to begin with) and I was hired as the state mortician to research and put a stop(i.e pretend to put a stop) to the plague. During this time a string of murders happened and I was forced to help investigate in order to keep up appearances. The other party members were members of the town guard assigned to assist me/keep me from killing everyone. As the story moved along I ended up a senator and its just to cushy to give up.

Short answer I'm a state sanctioned bad guy/necessary evil who has good guys who work for me/minimize collateral damage. Its been a very enjoyable dynamic thats lead to alot of hilarity and adventure.


to everyone else I have wraiths not wights if that makes a difference. Also the DM has ruled Warforged can not become undead despite that the opposite is true.

[unseenmage]

To answer the above post.

This is a continuation from a previous campaign and I guess it does demand a bit of an explanation on why My toon cares and is happily grouped with good guys.

The city was under the affects of a zombie plague(propagated by my character to begin with) and I was hired as the state mortician to research and put a stop(i.e pretend to put a stop) to the plague. During this time a string of murders happened and I was forced to help investigate in order to keep up appearances. The other party members were members of the town guard assigned to assist me/keep me from killing everyone. As the story moved along I ended up a senator and its just to cushy to give up.

Short answer I'm a state sanctioned bad guy/necessary evil who has good guys who work for me/minimize collateral damage. Its been a very enjoyable dynamic thats lead to alot of hilarity and adventure.

Huh. You'd think your alignment would shift more towards Lawful as soon as you became a figure in government and gained the power to pass down law.

That or towards good for thinking of the greater good, even if it suits your ends eventually.

A truly N character would just cut-and-run. A NE character would calmly sabotage the city first then escape just to watch the misery that caused.

But maybe that's just me.

[John Longarrow]

Ahhh... so you've got some political juice...

KEWL.. Get some of the other guards/soldier types to find out where local giants are. Deligate this down. Have THEM go get you the corpses you will need to defend the town.

YOU should be waaay to busy working on defences for the city (read lining your pockets) to be involved in the trivial matter of recovering troll and bigger skeletons for use in defending the city.

If the government already realizes your on the evil side, this shouldn't be a big surprise for them.

Next step, start identifying what resources the city has that can be used for defence. I'd suggest you put forward a motion to establish a committie on public safety. With your natural skills and vast experience in quelling the plague of undead, you should be a natural at being appointed head. Once you run the committie for public safety, start looking at issues within the city that reduce your ability to safe guard it, such as democratic process and silly social laws that interfere with your defensive works. After all, if the city falls EVERYONE looses. There fore it is in the interest of the people for you to safeguard them to the best of your ability...

[Lokiramza]

It was a very simplified and dumbed down explanation. He has alot of very frowned upon things going on under the hood and is abusing his station to get away with it.


@Above we are currently in the Xen'drik area trying to "recruit" Drow and giants ect to come to our aid.

[RFLS]

Huh. You'd think your alignment would shift more towards Lawful as soon as you became a figure in government and gained the power to pass down law.

That or towards good for thinking of the greater good, even if it suits your ends eventually.

A truly N character would just cut-and-run. A NE character would calmly sabotage the city first then escape just to watch the misery that caused.

But maybe that's just me.

Yeah, pretty much just you. Alignments aren't clear cut. If he says he's evil, he's probably evil, and there's not much you can do to contest what he says about his character.

[unseenmage]

Yeah, pretty much just you. Alignments aren't clear cut. If he says he's evil, he's probably evil, and there's not much you can do to contest what he says about his character.

A very good point. Just makes it harder to understand what sort of advice he's after if his alignment is part of his decision making process but not part of his decision making process at the same time.

NE doesn't for the greater good. It does for itself (the N) and for the bad (the E). I have trouble seeing how stopping an army of constructs from killing a city full of perfectly good corpses is NE is all.

But I will set that aside. That is my bias. Not anyone else's. My bad.

[Lokiramza]

A very good point. Just makes it harder to understand what sort of advice he's after if his alignment is part of his decision making process but not part of his decision making process at the same time.

NE doesn't for the greater good. It does for itself (the N) and for the bad (the E). I have trouble seeing how stopping an army of constructs from killing a city full of perfectly good corpses is NE is all.

But I will set that aside. That is my bias. Not anyone else's. My bad.

Not at all mate its a fair question.

It mostly comes down that he can pretty much get away with anything he wants currently by manipulating the judicial system/his place in power ect. Don't you worry if it comes down to it I'll leave the entire city/party to their own devices but I'm trying to preserve what I've worked for as it will be pretty hard to get away with what I've done otherwise.

[unseenmage]

Not at all mate its a fair question.

It mostly comes down that he can pretty much get away with anything he wants currently by manipulating the judicial system/his place in power ect. Don't you worry if it comes down to it I'll leave the entire city/party to their own devices but I'm trying to preserve what I've worked for as it will be pretty hard to get away with what I've done otherwise.

Fair enough. And well explained. Thank you.

Okay so, did you ever answer my question about how much cheese is allowed in the campaign?
Cuz it's kinda an important question. Esp. if you're looking for advice online. :smallsmile:

The simplest thing would be to get a bunch of big rocks, Shrink Item them into smaller rocks, stuff several portable holes full and empty them off the sides of the airship. But that's considered cheese by some but fair game by others.

[Vizzerdrix]

I'd like to recommend 7 levels of Mage of the Arcane order.

Also marbles. Golems can't balance worth spit.

[Lokiramza]

a fair amount of cheese is fine. Normally I wouldnt ask for help but its my first time trying a dread necro and I'm up against what seems to be a pretty rough matchup. I appreciate all the advice so far. It seems to be a terribly limited class and I've been at a bit of a loss as to what to do with it after level 8.

[John Longarrow]

For cheese, (IIRC, its been a while)

Polymorph any item.
Find whale. Whale gets turned into gold fish (or kitten if you prefer). Repeat until fish bowl (or sack) is full of goldfish (kittens).

Drop on enemy.

Upon death, they return to their original form. Anything under them now has a giant carcass on top of it.

Bonus points? You've just killed a sentient being in addition to crushing your enemies. Plus they make good fertalizer after they've rotted away. Even if they don't destroy the bigger constructs, it will sure slow them down for a looooong time.