The problem with Mooninities

[Doc_Maynot]

The title seems fitting. My group is doing a Gestalt 3.5 campaign starting at level two, and we have a player who would like to make a werewolf character. Now my first reaction is, "Oh, that'll be simple, just use the werewolf monster class (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040117a)!" But it's just too confusing. Could someone aid me in understanding the monster class in this, my darkest hour?

[Firebug]

Normally a Werewolf is a +3 level adjustment with 2 racial hit dice (from wolf).
The link you posted replaces the +3 level adjustment with some "levels" that replace your normal leveling process. That is table SP-16. Table SP-17 has the racial hit dice from wolf stat-ed out for players. What is nice to know is for both of these you can stop at any time if you are happy with it.

With just the 'level adjustment' portion your wolf form is just the shape of the wolf, no additional stats, no extra hit dice, nothing special. You just look like a wolf and are restricted to wolf-like activities (writing a book is likely out).

[Doc_Maynot]

But say he takes levels in lycanthrope and Dire Wolf a.k.a Werewolf Lord would he have the attribute increases all the time, or just in wolf/hybrid form? It looks to me to be the former, however.

[The Glyphstone]

The Dire Wolf class mentions this in its own description:


Wolf Abilities (Ex): Upon taking a level in the dire wolf animal class, the character gains the animal's Hit Dice (in all forms), base attack bonus (in all forms), base saving throw bonuses (in all forms), ability score modifiers (in hybrid and animal forms), skill points (in all forms), and natural armor bonus (in hybrid and animal forms), as well as the special abilities indicated on Table SP-18.

[Doc_Maynot]

The Dire Wolf class mentions this in its own description:

Oh my goodness, I am blind. Thank you kindly!

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

If they're starting out high enough level for him to have the entire template, just make one side of his gestalt LA +3/ Animal HD X, and he can take gestalt levels afterward. Refer to Creating A Lycanthrope (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lycanthrope.htm) near the bottom of the page for how to implement it.

A Lycanthrope only gains the animal bonus stats when in hybrid or animal form. For a Werewolf Lord using Dire Wolf instead of regular Wolf, you would use six animal HD, and the animal and hybrid forms would get Str +14, Dex +4, Con +6, and +3 natural armor, though only his six animal HD would benefit from the extra HP from that +6 Con. Also note that Dire animals get all good saves, so those six animal HD would grant all three base saves of +5. He would need to start at least 9th level to go LA +3/ Animal HD 6 gestalt with nine class levels, or you could let him go Animal HD 6// LA +3/classes 3 if starting at least 6th level, though those animal HD are terrible for gestalting with level adjustment.

If you want to break Werewolf Lord down into a level progression like Werewolf gets, I'd just add four more levels onto SP-17: The Wolf (Lycanthrope) Class for those four additional animal HD. Those four levels would need to grant an additional Str +12, Con +2, and +1 natural armor, so I'd make it as follows:

The Dire Wolf (Lycanthrope) Class (to be taken after SP-17: The Wolf (Lycanthrope) Class (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040117a))
{table=head]Level|Hit Dice|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skill Points|Special

3rd|
3d8|
+2|
+3|
+3|
+3|
2 + Int mod.|Str +2, natural armor +1

4th|
4d8|
+3|
+4|
+4|
+4|
2 + Int mod.|Str +2, Con +2

5th|
5d8|
+3|
+4|
+4|
+4|
2 + Int mod.|Str +4, large size animal form

6th|
6d8|
+4|
+5|
+5|
+5|
2 + Int mod.|Str +4, large size hybrid form[/table]

[Vaz]

Why... would he need to do that when there is already a progression for Dire Wolf (Werewolf Lord? SP-18).

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Why... would he need to do that when there is already a progression for Dire Wolf (Werewolf Lord? SP-18).

Because I didn't scroll down far enough to see it, and went looking in the list of savage progressions articles for that one and didn't find one named werewolf lord....

[Chronos]

Note that there's some debate about how level adjustment and racial hit dice ought to work with gestalt. Some say that level adjustment counts for both sides of your gestalt at once; some say that LA and RHD are each treated like a class and can be put on one side, but that they have to be put on the same side; and some say that you can mix them in freely, and put them on the same side or opposite each other as you choose. Check with your DM.

[Doc_Maynot]

Wait, so taking the monster class will still mark him with an LA rather than just the monster class levels?

[Psyren]

Since nobody's linked it yet, have you read Urpriest's Monstrous Guide to Monsters? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207928) Useful info if you want to take a monster class or savage progression of any stripe.

[Chronos]

Wait, so taking the monster class will still mark him with an LA rather than just the monster class levels?
Basically, monster classes include the LA as levels in the monster class.

[Doc_Maynot]

Okay, that's what I thought. Had me scared for a moment.