Improved familer on a duskblade?

[CyberThread]

how does the GITP feel about improved fam, with a duskblade?

[Urpriest]

Since Familiars get your BAB and half your hp, Duskblade is a pretty good chassis for familiar-shenanigans.

[John Longarrow]

I'd only do it if you were going for the better familiars. Just a familiar would be kinda a waste.

[Snowbluff]

Since Familiars get your BAB and half your hp, Duskblade is a pretty good chassis for familiar-shenanigans.

Seconding this. Familiar on a gish is like having another fighter.

[CyberThread]

good fighter or like druid companion "fighter"

[Big Fau]

If you can get a bunch of Polymorph spells on the Duskblade's spell list the Familiar becomes amazing, but it's pretty good without that.

[CyberThread]

Hmm maybe, I should or someone should make an improved familer handbook, it is pretty open to possible uses besides just imp.

[Snowbluff]

Hmm maybe, I should or someone should make an improved familer handbook, it is pretty open to possible uses besides just imp.

Dictuum Mortuum's handbook is pretty food. :smalltongue:

[Vortenger]

Agreed on Dictum Mortuum's handbook. More intensive evaluations would be welcome, though. I believe the combat (construct) familiars from CW and a few others were omitted as well. (Can't remember, I always get lost in his complete shopping list any time i go to his site.)

While your question threads are always a good read, I must ask: Cyber Drag, are you really Endarire in disguise? :smallsmile:

[CyberThread]

Nope, we are not allowed to have alts on this forum. An I ask loads of questions, simply because it helps pass the time, and learn something new.

[peacenlove]

Dragon Familiar is very good if you wait some levels. Good physical stats and skills.
If your DM allows you to take alternate dragons other than the core 10 with this feat, I suggest pyroclastic dragon with disintegrating breath or deep dragon with continuous true seeing, both having a burrow speed for setting up ambushes.

[Grim Reader]

There is a substitution level for changeling wizard 5 that gives up the free feat for the "Morphic Familiar" ability. I've often though that reverse engineering that into a feat would be deeply awesome.

Course, you'd have to play a changeling.

[Vaz]

If you can get a bunch of Polymorph spells on the Duskblade's spell list the Familiar becomes amazing, but it's pretty good without that.

There are none, that I can think of, short of Gestalt and multiclassing out of Duskblade prior to Duskblade 13 is usually considered bad juju. (Duskblade 13/Ur-Priest 7 is a possibility, however, but late in the game).

The Arcane Disciple feats don't have Polymorph, they only have PAO, which is 8th or 9th.

It's also a two feat chain on a class that's fairly feat hungry; Power Attack, Arcane Strike, plus any feats required for qualification plus those two means you're normally around 1 or 2 feats left over; and that's not including things like Power Attack optimizing.

However, my favourite option for an Improved Familiar is a Mirror Mephit. Simulacrum as an SLA? Simulacrum an Efreet at ECL9? Cheers, thanks.

[CyberThread]

Fun thing that stuff, is that you can afford magical items then you are set on that , and if you can't you can go for a lesser but just as strong buff in someways, if you go with an alter self item.

[Snowbluff]

There are none, that I can think of, short of Gestalt and multiclassing out of Duskblade prior to Duskblade 13 is usually considered bad juju. (Duskblade 13/Ur-Priest 7 is a possibility, however, but late in the game). This depends on the level. If you aren't expecting a long-term game, DB 3 is a good cut-off point.


However, my favourite option for an Improved Familiar is a Mirror Mephit. Simulacrum as an SLA? Simulacrum an Efreet at ECL9? Cheers, thanks.

OOooh. These things are crazy good.

[Vortenger]

Never heard of the mirror mephit trick, huh? I've never known a DM that would allow it. (Myself included). Even if ok'd doesn't the mephit have to touch the creature before it can create its simulacra? (Sorry, afb)

I can't imagine most dm's will want to allow a lvl 9 character access to limitless wishes. The DM would be well within his rights to unleash Inevitables and/or the hordes of the City of Brass to put down the upstart mageling (do you think the efreeti caliphs want mages of middling power muscling in on their most marketable trade skil?) That efreet you try and bind? Reporting to his boss the moment he gets home.

[nedz]

The Arcane Disciple feats don't have Polymorph, they only have PAO, which is 8th or 9th.

Alteration Domain (Dragonlance Campaign Setting 102)
2) Alter Self, 4) Polymorph, 5) Baleful Polymorph, 8 Polymorph Any Object, 9) Shapechange

Transformation Domain (Races of Eberron 180-181)
2) Alter Self, 5) Polymorph, 6) Baleful Polymorph, 7) Doppelganger Transformation, 8) Polymorph Any Object, 9) Shapechange

Good luck on finding any deities which grant these though.

[Snowbluff]

Never heard of the mirror mephit trick, huh? You presume too much.


I can't imagine most dm's will want to allow a lvl 9 character access to limitless wishes. The DM would be well within his rights to unleash Inevitables and/or the hordes of the City of Brass to put down the upstart mageling (do you think the efreeti caliphs want mages of middling power muscling in on their most marketable trade skil?) That efreet you try and bind? Reporting to his boss the moment he gets home. Oh, you mean this CHAOTIC Noblie Djinn who can grant wishes to his captor? :smallsmile:

[Vortenger]

You presume too much.
Oh, you mean this CHAOTIC Noblie Djinn who can grant wishes to his captor? :smallsmile:

If a dm takes issue, then they could use the good/evil axis to pursue through the same channels the efreeie would. Cloning a powerful good creature for wish abuse can hardly be called a good act. That chaotic part means little if the dm finds it cheesy. Just noting that for people who'll think it flies in most games as a matter of course.

[Snowbluff]

If a dm takes issue, then they could use the good/evil axis to pursue through the same channels the efreeie would. Cloning a powerful good creature for wish abuse can hardly be called a good act. That chaotic part means little if the dm finds it cheesy. Just noting that for people who'll think it flies in most games as a matter of course.

Ugh, this post is a mess. Yes, the DM could do anything about anything, but not making a poorly placed contrivance out of is the trick.

Also, wish abuse isn't inherently 'evil' by any stretch of the imagination.

[Lostbutseeking]

Alteration Domain (Dragonlance Campaign Setting 102)
2) Alter Self, 4) Polymorph, 5) Baleful Polymorph, 8 Polymorph Any Object, 9) Shapechange

Transformation Domain (Races of Eberron 180-181)
2) Alter Self, 5) Polymorph, 6) Baleful Polymorph, 7) Doppelganger Transformation, 8) Polymorph Any Object, 9) Shapechange

Good luck on finding any deities which grant these though.

Both are explicitly not offered by deities which makes them inaccesible via Arcane Disciple.

[CyberThread]

*cough* Make up a god, or play in a setting that isn't published.


Gods are fluff, you can make that crap up.

[Cranthis]

Coure Eladrins are always good. You get your own personal Tinkerbell.

[Snowbluff]

Coure Eladrins are always good. You get your own personal Tinkerbell.

They qualify for the Deceptive Illumination feat, which is effectively at-will Silent Image for them.

[Runestar]

Dragon Familiar is very good if you wait some levels. Good physical stats and skills.
If your DM allows you to take alternate dragons other than the core 10 with this feat, I suggest pyroclastic dragon with disintegrating breath or deep dragon with continuous true seeing, both having a burrow speed for setting up ambushes.

The dragon with the sleep breath weapon is pretty useful as well. Many people forget that because the familiar uses the wizard's HD, its breath weapon's DC continues to scale, and thus remains useful even at higher lvs. :smallsmile:

[nedz]

Both are explicitly not offered by deities which makes them inaccesible via Arcane Disciple.

Hence the last line of my comment. But, as CyberDrag mentioned, this is setting dependant.

[Snowbluff]

The dragon with the sleep breath weapon is pretty useful as well. Many people forget that because the familiar uses the wizard's HD, its breath weapon's DC continues to scale, and thus remains useful even at higher lvs. :smallsmile:

The same goes for other creatures. Poisonous creatures like pseudodragons, especially.

Also, Deathfangs are pretty sweet. They bite for negative levels.

[StreamOfTheSky]

There are none, that I can think of, short of Gestalt and multiclassing out of Duskblade prior to Duskblade 13 is usually considered bad juju. (Duskblade 13/Ur-Priest 7 is a possibility, however, but late in the game).

The Arcane Disciple feats don't have Polymorph, they only have PAO, which is 8th or 9th.

It's also a two feat chain on a class that's fairly feat hungry; Power Attack, Arcane Strike, plus any feats required for qualification plus those two means you're normally around 1 or 2 feats left over; and that's not including things like Power Attack optimizing.

However, my favourite option for an Improved Familiar is a Mirror Mephit. Simulacrum as an SLA? Simulacrum an Efreet at ECL9? Cheers, thanks.

Get a Runestaff with polymorph spells on it. You would need to make a DC 20 UMD check to use it since they're not on your list, but that's not too bad. You then have the arcane spell slots to cast them from, up to 3/day for each spell on there, depending on what you're willing to pay for with the staff.

[Vaz]

A Class which has no Cha based Synergy whatsoever, no class skills with Cha at all, and no UMD as a class skill means that it's typically getting around -1 to -2 for Cha scores, while it's 2+ Int stats means that it's got few skill points to spread around after Con, Spellcraft, Knowledges for K. Devotion, and cross-class Balance/Tumble.

On a Duskblade 13, that's Max ranks of 8, with a -2 to stats. Failing to activate will happen nearly a quarter of the times you try and cast the spell.

[Vortenger]

Ugh, this post is a mess. Yes, the DM could do anything about anything, but not making a poorly placed contrivance out of is the trick.

Also, wish abuse isn't inherently 'evil' by any stretch of the imagination.

Never said evil. Just not good. I posted on a 14 hour ride from Reno to Seattle, and do not apologize for the ramble. Contrivance is indeed one of the many tools utilized by DM's to challenge players. Challenge may be indeed necessary to challenge players who gain +5 inherent boni to each stat at level 9 WBL free. So maybe the trick works fine in your games. Kudos, then. For those of us whose DM's balk at a whiff of gouda, I thought someone may want to put the 100% cheese label on mirror mephits. Forgive me for attempting to add to the conversation.

[CyberThread]

Hmm.... no clue

[Vaz]

Never said evil. Just not good. I posted on a 14 hour ride from Reno to Seattle, and do not apologize for the ramble. Contrivance is indeed one of the many tools utilized by DM's to challenge players. Challenge may be indeed necessary to challenge players who gain +5 inherent boni to each stat at level 9 WBL free. So maybe the trick works fine in your games. Kudos, then. For those of us whose DM's balk at a whiff of gouda, I thought someone may want to put the 100% cheese label on mirror mephits. Forgive me for attempting to add to the conversation.

Eh, it is there in RAW format. However, for less cheesy alternatives, I used the Mirror mephit in an Iron Chef as the Familiar for an Urban Soul; basically I used a combination of Diplomacy and Gather Information along with animal spies to gain loyal followers, who had the ability to report back to me which would give me the information to teleport into places where the badguys were, at the precise moment when deals were going down. If turning them friendly didn't work, i killed them and made Simulacrums of them who took their place. I also had Simulacrums of myself, so that I could be everywhere I needed to be at all times.

It would have scored better if I hadn't abused the Southern Magician wording to count Druid spellcasting as Arcane for the purposes of gaining the familiar.