Dwarf Paragon

[Human Paragon 3]

Anyone every find a use for Dwarf Paragon?

It's full BAB and grants a con bonus, plus 60 feet of dark vision. Full weapon and armor profs. Not a bad package, but still.

[Amphetryon]

Anyone every find a use for Dwarf Paragon?

It's full BAB and grants a con bonus, plus 60 feet of dark vision. Full weapon and armor profs. Not a bad package, but still.

It works well on any chassis that's not a full caster and can benefit from that high CON. . . and very, very few concepts don't benefit from a high CON. Use it to compliment Ranger as a lead-in to Deepwarden (pre-WotC nerf of the PrC), or on a Barbarian you're taking to a PrC (most of them). Heck, combine it with Fighter 2 before exiting into any full-BAB PrC that strikes your fancy and would get more from extended Darkvision and +2 CON than it would get from a single bonus Feat and the glory that is Fighter 5.

[ArcturusV]

Oddly I'd consider it for a Rogue type chassis. Particularly if you're planning on being the Trap Guy in the party, either the one who makes them, or the one who disarms them. But only if you had a dwarf variant that wasn't taking the ding to Dex of course. Racial bonuses, save bonuses, etc, all handy for someone who's likely to run across poison needles, exploding runes, etc, when they're doing their job. Full BaB is just nice to have, as is the Con bonus.

Could be part of a decent Trapper sort of build.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'd consider dipping a single level of it on a Runesmith Gish, but otherwise it's extremely lackluster compared to what you could get from just about any other full BAB class.

In a lower powered game it can be useful to mix with Ranger going into Deepwarden and maybe Dark Hunter.

[BowStreetRunner]

I took a Hill Dwarf with the Expert class, then Stoneblessed (Mountain Dwarf), Dwarf Paragon, Dungeon Delver and Dark Hunter and made an NPC 'Stonecunning' Expert. Just for the fun of it! :smallbiggrin:

[Zombulian]

It works well on any chassis that's not a full caster and can benefit from that high CON. . . and very, very few concepts don't benefit from a high CON. Use it to compliment Ranger as a lead-in to Deepwarden (pre-WotC nerf of the PrC), or on a Barbarian you're taking to a PrC (most of them). Heck, combine it with Fighter 2 before exiting into any full-BAB PrC that strikes your fancy and would get more from extended Darkvision and +2 CON than it would get from a single bonus Feat and the glory that is Fighter 5.

They... they nerfed the Deepwarden? NOOOOO

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

It works well on any chassis that's not a full caster and can benefit from that high CON. . . and very, very few concepts don't benefit from a high CON. Use it to compliment Ranger as a lead-in to Deepwarden (pre-WotC nerf of the PrC), or on a Barbarian you're taking to a PrC (most of them). Heck, combine it with Fighter 2 before exiting into any full-BAB PrC that strikes your fancy and would get more from extended Darkvision and +2 CON than it would get from a single bonus Feat and the glory that is Fighter 5.

I don't see any nerfs here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040807a&page=4), and there's no errata for Races of Stone (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a). Where is this alleged WotC nerf to Deepwarden?

[Amphetryon]

I don't see any nerfs here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040807a&page=4), and there's no errata for Races of Stone (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a). Where is this alleged WotC nerf to Deepwarden?

There have been posted reports on 339 and minmax, among others, indicating and quoting official CustServ responses (I know, CustServ's responses lack the authority of "official errata," but for many groups, word from WotC suffices) indicating the bonuses granted at Deepwarden 2 - theoretically based on CON - are capped by the Deepwarden's DEX score. Personally, I don't use it as I find it to be head-desk worthy, but - as indicated above - it has "word of WotC" to make it more official than, for example, some guy/gal on a message board, like myself.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

There have been posted reports on 339 and minmax, among others, indicating and quoting official CustServ responses (I know, CustServ's responses lack the authority of "official errata," but for many groups, word from WotC suffices) indicating the bonuses granted at Deepwarden 2 - theoretically based on CON - are capped by the Deepwarden's DEX score. Personally, I don't use it as I find it to be head-desk worthy, but - as indicated above - it has "word of WotC" to make it more official than, for example, some guy/gal on a message board, like myself.

Assuming you mean it's capped by max Dex bonus on armor and not the character's actual Dex bonus, I found it in the FAQ:


Does the deepwarden’s Stone Warden ability (RS 105)
still have a maximum Dexterity bonus to his Armor Class,
and does that maximum still apply to his Constitution?

The maximum Dexterity bonus should be treated as the
maximum ability bonus given by the armor, so if you were
playing a deepwarden wearing full plate, you would only add 1
to your Armor Class from your Constitution.

This implies that the Max Dex Bonus on armor restricts any ability score bonus you would apply to your AC. Which is absurd when you consider how many other classes/races/etc. allow you to add an uncapped ability score bonus to AC when wearing armor. I should have expected them to take the Nice Things away from a noncaster prestige class, though.

[Zombulian]

Aw that's poopy. But yeah I think I'll just... Not use that?

[JaronK]

Well, I used it for my dwarfy dwarf character. Fighter 1/Dwarf Paragon 3/Crusader 2... but that was intentionally making the dwarfiest dwarf ever (wielded a Dwarven War Axe, used all Dwarvencraft items that he made himself).

JaronK

[Zombulian]

Well, I used it for my dwarfy dwarf character. Fighter 1/Dwarf Paragon 3/Crusader 2... but that was intentionally making the dwarfiest dwarf ever (wielded a Dwarven War Axe, used all Dwarvencraft items that he made himself).

JaronK

Not enuff dorf. Never enuff dorf.

[Diovid]

For a very dwarfy character (and without access to ToB) you could go with something like Earth Dwarf Ranger 2 / Dwarf Paragon 3 / Stonblessed (Dwarf) 3 / Deepwarden 2 / Dwarven Defender 10.

It wouldn't be able to do anything but at least no-one can out-dwarf it.

[Zanos]

This implies that the Max Dex Bonus on armor restricts any ability score bonus you would apply to your AC. Which is absurd when you consider how many other classes/races/etc. allow you to add an uncapped ability score bonus to AC when wearing armor. I should have expected them to take the Nice Things away from a noncaster prestige class, though.
That is a very loaded way of reading it. Deepwarden's text specifically mentions that they replace DEX with CON for their AC bonus, and would therefore otherwise follow the rules of DEX to AC.

That said I wouldn't follow that FAQ ruling in anything I ran.

[JaronK]

Not enuff dorf. Never enuff dorf.

He also used the Dwarf Fighter substitution level. Due to the rules we're using, he will soon be gestalt... as a Cleric, with all the Dwarf Cleric substitutions. Also he's a Earth Dwarf, and all of his gear is made from stone or metal. Also, half his food budget was spent on ale.

JaronK

[Fouredged Sword]

At one point I wanted to make a Factotum 3 / Dwarf Paragon 3 / Trapsmith 1 / Runesmith 1 / Trapsmith 4 / Duskblade 3 / Unseen Seer 5

It seemed like a cool build idea.

[BerronBrightaxe]

Once build a Rogue 3/Ranger 2/Thief Acrobat 4/Dungeondelver 4/Dwarf Paragon 3/Stoneblessed 3/XX 1.

He could find any trap in stone or metal, hard to see/hear, find (almost) every track, be able to take-10 on atleast 11 skills. His attack and damage are almost decent, but that wasn't the aim :smallbiggrin:

too bad the adventure died too early :smallfrown:

[Juntao112]

He also used the Dwarf Fighter substitution level. Due to the rules we're using, he will soon be gestalt... as a Cleric, with all the Dwarf Cleric substitutions. Also he's a Earth Dwarf, and all of his gear is made from stone or metal. Also, half his food budget was spent on ale.

JaronK

Fistbeard Beardfist would have approved.