Deities of 4.0 in 3.5!

[Valluman]

Hello all, I am starting a campaign, and quite frankly, the original 3.5 pantheon bores me, and I am not interested in using any of the alternate pantheons of Egypt, Olympus, or Asgard. I am wondering if it has been written anywhere how the 4.0 deities would be used in 3.5, as I quite enjoy that pantheon a lot. If not, I'll end up making it myself.

[Honest Tiefling]

Which deities do you like? I think some were stolen from various Campaign settings (Like Bane and Forgotten Realms, Tharzidun from Greyhawk), so maybe you can take their 3.5 counterpart and fudge it.

[Pokonic]

I think the one really original deity was the Raven Queen, who does kick ass concept-wise.

[Valluman]

Quite frankly, the whole thing. The list includes the following gods:

Avandra
Bahamut
Moradin
Pelor
Corellon
Erathis
Ioun
Kord
Melora
The Raven Queen
Sehanine
Asmodeus
Bane
Gruumsh
Lolth
Tharizdun
Tiamat
Torog
Vecna
Zehir


I think the one really original deity was the Raven Queen, who does kick ass concept-wise.

She's muh favorite.

[Honest Tiefling]

Avandra --> Might be a Halfling Racial god? If so, then Greyhawk/Forgotten Realms
Bahamut --> Draconomicon, I think
Moradin --> Greyhawk/Forgotten Realms (Dwarven racial)
Pelor --> Greyhawk
Corellon --> Greyhawk AND Forgotten Realms, take your pick. (Elven racial)
Ioun --> Unsure on this one, actually.
Kord --> Greyhawk again
Sehanine --> Greyhawk/Forgotten Realms. (Elven racial)
Asmodeus --> Probably going to want Fiendish Codex II for this one (A book I love to pieces)
Bane --> Forgotten Realms
Gruumsh --> Greyhawk/Forgotten Realms (Orc racial)
Lolth --> Greyhawk AND Forgotten Realms, take your pick. (Elf/Drow racial)
Tharizdun --> Greyhawk, I think.
Tiamat --> Pretty sure she's in Draconomicon and Forgotten Realms. I think she is very different between the two, however.
Vecna --> Greyhawk
Zehir --> Greyhawk, maybe?

[Zanos]

Out of curiosity I looked up Ioun. Apparently her name is derived from Ioun stones, which is actually in turn named after their creator, Congenio Ioun.

So there's a goddess named after an item that is the name of a wizard. Weird. At first I was confused and thought he had become divine or something, but apparently not.

[Auramis]

Out of curiosity I looked up Ioun. Apparently her name is derived from Ioun stones, which is actually in turn named after their creator, Congenio Ioun.

So there's a goddess named after an item that is the name of a wizard. Weird. At first I was confused and thought he had become divine or something, but apparently not.

She may have been related to that dude. She used to be Boccob's high preistess before Boccob died. She took his place after he sacrificed himself to kill Neurel in 4.0.

[Honest Tiefling]

They could have also smooshed Ioun and Io together. And somehow created a girl?

[Valluman]

They could have also smooshed Ioun and Io together. And somehow created a girl?

Io is the father of all dragon-kind. In 4.0, Io was a primordial god who did battle with a primordial evil, and he was split in two, birthing Tiamat and Bahamut, who, fighting together, killed the evil. After that, they fought each other, and Tiamat, seeing she would lose the fight, distracted Bahamut and fled. Now they have this bitter hatred and rivalry against one another.

[Honest Tiefling]

I meant the writers, not the actual gods. I do not think gods trying to smoosh themselves leads to much productivity.

[bobthe6th]

God overload has been know to make players stop remembering and caring about most of the gods... I know after 5 gods I really stop giving a rats ass and start skipping. Might be good to compress a few simaler gods together, or pare the list down a bit.

[Honest Tiefling]

On the flip side, players tend to fixate on one god or only a handful. They can be a very picky bunch! I find that variety can help, but you might want to focus on ones players attach themselves to, or make a wiki or document to reference.

[Valluman]

God overload has been know to make players stop remembering and caring about most of the gods... I know after 5 gods I really stop giving a rats ass and start skipping. Might be good to compress a few simaler gods together, or pare the list down a bit.

The ancient Greeks and Egyptians had a great plethora of gods, and they kept up with them. If the players don't want to care about some gods, they have that right. I know that, in ancient Greece, they respected all the gods (except Odysseus, but he learned his lesson!), but not all were necessarily worshiped or favored by the people.

It looks like a daunting list, but it's not like I'm requiring everyone know everything about them (that's what knowledge religion checks are for anyway).

[Auramis]

(except Odysseus, but he learned his lesson!)

Odysseus got a pretty harsh punishment. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3NTAmGig0U)

[Honest Tiefling]

Well...Ancient Greece was also pretty regional. For instance, Ares was not really very well respected outside of Thrace and Sparta. And I am pretty sure most Greek villagers did not memorize such and such god of that river way over there because it wasn't where they were. Still, this isn't a huge list of gods, comparatively. What edition are your players used to, and how do they treat the gods?

[Valluman]

What edition are your players used to, and how do they treat the gods?

We only use 3.5 with some house rules made by myself where we deem is appropriate or necessary (such as where rules are unclear). With gods, that depends on the characters, honestly. I've had one PC respect gods, no matter whether they were worshiped or just known, and I've had another PC waltz into a temple of Wee Jas and demand to fight a particular necromancer he witnessed raise the dead.

As far as how it is done OOC, my players pick a god (or two or three as long as their class doesn't require one singular god, like Cleric) they revere or worship and stick with those gods as their personal ones.

[Psyren]

Out of curiosity I looked up Ioun. Apparently her name is derived from Ioun stones, which is actually in turn named after their creator, Congenio Ioun.

Ioun Stones go all the way back to Gygax's day, specifically they were based on small stones in Vance's novels that orbited the spellcaster's heads. Not sure where the name came from though or if they were called that in Dying Earth.

[Alefiend]

Ioun Stones go all the way back to Gygax's day, specifically they were based on small stones in Vance's novels that orbited the spellcaster's heads. Not sure where the name came from though or if they were called that in Dying Earth.

They were called Ioun stones there. More specifically, IOUN stones (Vance capitalized the whole thing). Their properties were unclear from the text.

[hamishspence]

Tiamat --> Pretty sure she's in Draconomicon and Forgotten Realms. I think she is very different between the two, however.

Not really- she's still the Five Headed Dragon- it's just that she has a favourite human form as well.

The biggest difference is that FR-Tiamat allows LN clerics as well as LE and NE ones, whereas Draconomicon + Deities & Demigods Tiamat is restricted to LE + NE clerics.

[Fruchtkracher]

She may have been related to that dude. She used to be Boccob's high preistess before Boccob died. She took his place after he sacrificed himself to kill Neurel in 4.0.



Forgive me for asking, but when and why did that happen? Why the heck would Boccob sacrifice himself?

[Psyren]

Forgive me for asking, but when and why did that happen? Why the heck would Boccob sacrifice himself?

Because WotC either (a) thought he had a silly name, (b) wanted a deity whose name was on the game items, or (c) both.

They probably also like the idea of a female magic deity in the core setting as well as FR.

They probably also decided "Raven Queen" was cooler than "Wee Jas."

[Valluman]

Forgive me for asking, but when and why did that happen? Why the heck would Boccob sacrifice himself?

That's from the new 4.0 canon the justify the huge pantheon change. There was a God war, and Boccob saw that if he did not act,much would be lost.

[DeltaEmil]

The 4e core gods are a little bit different from their Greyhawk/Forgotten Realms incarnations.

For example, Bane, the evil war god (in the Forgotten Realms normally a god of leadership and tyranny, until they changed this for 4e Forgotten Realms, but still a former mortal who achieved divinity, unlike the 4e core Bane, who was always some kind of god), is the brother of Kord, the unaligned storm deity (in Greyhawk, Kord is a Chaotic Good deity of strength and athleticism).

[Doc_Maynot]

Yes, yes, give The Burning Hate -I mean Pelor, the time domain!

[Dusk Eclipse]

Because WotC either (a) thought he had a silly name, (b) wanted a deity whose name was on the game items, or (c) both.

They probably also like the idea of a female magic deity in the core setting as well as FR.

They probably also decided "Raven Queen" was cooler than "Wee Jas."

My personal head canon is that During the god's war Wee Jas gradually got more powerful until she went from Intermidiate to Greater Deity while getting a new identity.

She is my favourite deity in both editions, and my most successful 4e character (went from level 1-9-ish) was a Raven Queen Avenger... man now I want to remake him in 3.5

[Valluman]

Judging by the responces so far, I am going to assume that most of these deities are in 3.5 in some manner and may need some slight tweeking to fit into one pantheon. More work for me then. Yay?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Depends on what do you mean by Pantheon, AFAIK in greyhawk save for Racial deities all of them just kid of coexist, not really interacting unless a higher threat (Demon Lords/Lord of the Nine, Vestiges, etc) forces them cooperate.

Unless you are running a campaign that really features the gods/churches/pantheon or you have a cleric who isn't sure on which god to worship you can simply ignore them for the most part.

[Valluman]

To start off, I will show the PCs the list and tell them what each deity is about. If they pick one up, we'll work over that one. I do plan on getting to them all though.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Then it is pretty easy, I'd say most will work just fine as they are, a couple of extra Domains (or different) domains at most.

[DeltaEmil]

Judging by the responces so far, I am going to assume that most of these deities are in 3.5 in some manner and may need some slight tweeking to fit into one pantheon. More work for me then. Yay?Why would you? All you need is to assign 3e domains to the 4e gods' portfolio. The 4e gods are not exactly the same as the 3e ones, despite some having the same names.

For example, in 3e, Gruumsh is a racial deity of the orcs. In 4e, Gruumsh is the god of the savage nature and bloodshed and slaughter (and the greatest rival of Bane, since he covets Bane's title as the War God), and orcs believe themselves to be his chosen people, but do not deny that he has (degenerated) human followers. In theory, even elves and eladrins could worship Gruumsh, and Gruumsh would not have a problem with that, quite the opposite, that would be a good way to one-up Corellon Larethian.

[Valluman]

Why would you? All you need is to assign 3e domains to the 4e gods' portfolio. The 4e gods are not exactly the same as the 3e ones, despite some having the same names.

For example, in 3e, Gruumsh is a racial deity of the orcs. In 4e, Gruumsh is the god of the savage nature and bloodshed and slaughter (and the greatest rival of Bane, since he covets Bane's title as the War God), and orcs believe themselves to be his chosen people, but do not deny that he has (degenerated) human followers. In theory, even elves and eladrins could worship Gruumsh, and Gruumsh would not have a problem with that, quite the opposite, that would be a good way to one-up Corellon Larethian.

I was only going to use the 3.5 examples as just that; a basis to work off of. I did aquire the 4e PHB and will no doubt ye that for the lore while using 3.5 as the domain bssis, with some needed tweeking here and there, such as with Corellon, who is a bit different than in 3.5.

I also apologize for my ghastly typos. X.x

[Honest Tiefling]

I did say they needed to be fudged, but my apologies if I did not make it clear. I thought he was after the stats, and I know the FR ones are statted out at least.

[Valluman]

I did say they needed to be fudged, but my apologies if I did not make it clear. I thought he was after the stats, and I know the FR ones are statted out at least.

Oh Heavens, no. I wasn't looking for stats. I am not in the office of making my PCs fight gods. Even if they were high enough level to do so, I don't like the concept.