PDA

View Full Version : Any way to improve Barbarian/Fighter/FrenziedBerserker build?



Yuric the Bold
2013-09-20, 03:31 AM
Without changing my race/class combination is there any way to improve this build to help pump out more damage?

Draconic Wood Elf Lloth-Touched
Barbarian 3/Fighter 4/FrenziedBerserker 7
STR 35 DEX 20 CON 24 INT 16 WIS 12 CHA 15

Relevant FEATs Power Attack, Leap Attack, Shock Trooper plus all the requisites for those choices (Tactical and PrC) in addition to Endurance and Steadfast Determination for a higher Will save so I don't slaughter my party by accident. Plus Iron Will from Otyugh Hole.
Have 1 FEAT choice at the moment. Righteous Wrath was deemed inadmissible as applicable to Frenzy. So the FEAT dump to make me less KillSquad2000. (ie: End, StfD and IW)

My current dmg is 4d6+222 per hit when I pounce and use Leap Attack with my Valorous Keen Adamantine Greatsword in a Rage/Frenzy and I am +35/+35/+30/+25.

Baron Malkar
2013-09-20, 03:42 AM
BoVD has a collar that makes its wearer automatically dominated by a selected ally. If you can trust your teammates I am pretty sure a dominated FB would have to drop out of a frenzy or attack particular targets when commanded to.

eggynack
2013-09-20, 03:46 AM
To what extent is the class makeup set in stone? My first instinct is to get rid of the third level of barbarian, as well as the third and fourth levels of fighter, because they're really not doing anything for you. You can make the third level of barbarian actually useless if you pick up something like wolf totem, and I've just always felt uncomfortable with fighter levels past two. As a replacement, warblade levels are always classic, and there're a few other solid dips that can fill those class slots. If you go the wolf totem route, you could always pick up knockdown, and give your attacks a little more foomf. Knockdown causes tripping to have a very low cost, and it can potentially double the attacks on one of your iteratives while knocking the enemy prone.

ahenobarbi
2013-09-20, 03:56 AM
Easy one is getting Exotic Weapon Profficiency (Gold Warmace).
Warmace (Complete Warrior, p.154) has 1d12 base damage, when it's made of gold (Magic of Fareun, p. 179) bumps this to 2d8. Then have someone cast Mighty Wallop, Greater (Races of the Dragon, p. 114) to bump it more (up to 8d8 at CL 16).

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2013-09-20, 04:07 AM
Get only two levels of Barbarian, use Wolf Totem Barbarian (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wolfTotemClassFeatures ) for Improved Trip, and get Knock-Down (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#knockDown). You should also use Whirling Frenzy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#rageVariantWhirlingFrenzy ) instead of the standard Barbarian Rage. The extra attack it grants stacks with the one from your Frenzied Berserker Frenzy, as one is a free extra attack which mimics Haste while the other comes with a cost similar to Flurry of Blows or Rapid Shot. Also definitely get the Wolf Spirit alternate class feature in CC, which trades your Barbarian Fast Movement for Pounce (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#pounce). If you still want to move faster get the Quick trait (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterTraits.htm#quick).

Get only two levels of Fighter, anything more than that is a waste. You only need two more class levels before taking Frenzied Berserker, which should be Hexblade in CW for both a good Will save and a bonus on saves vs spells and spell-like abilities. Since none of your base classes will be more than two levels apart, you'll never suffer a multiclassing XP penalty regardless of favored class.

That means Wolf-Totem Barbarian 2/ Fighter 2/ Hexblade 2/ Frenzied Berserker 8, which gets you Greater Frenzy. If you have any extra feats take Extra Rage, so you can Rage or Whirling Frenzy two additional times/day. Since most of your damage comes from Strength and Power Attack your weapon base damage is largely negligible, so consider getting Exotic Weapon Proficiency instead with a Kaorti Resin (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031014a) Falchion, which has a natural 18-20/x4 critical. Another option would be a Kaorti Resin Scimitar, and dip a single level of Exotic Weapon Master for Uncanny Blow which allows you to add double your Strength bonus to damage instead of just one and a half when using it two-handed. If Kaorti Resin is unavailable, use a Greathorn Minotaur Greathammer from MM4, it deals 1d12 base damage with a natural 19-20/x4 critical, it's also an exotic weapon.

eggynack
2013-09-20, 04:19 AM
. You should also use Whirling Frenzy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#rageVariantWhirlingFrenzy ) instead of the standard Barbarian Rage. The extra attack it grants stacks with the one from your Frenzied Berserker Frenzy, as one is a free extra attack which mimics Haste while the other comes with a cost similar to Flurry of Blows or Rapid Shot.
I don't think there's any distinction in whirling frenzy that would cause its effects to stack with regular frenzy. Frenzy says, "This latter effect is not cumulative with haste or other effects that grant additional attacks," and that seems pretty clear cut. The fact that there is a cost seems fairly irrelevant.



Also definitely get the Wolf Spirit alternate class feature in CC, which trades your Barbarian Fast Movement for Pounce (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#pounce).
You're thinking of spirit lion totem, and I'm pretty sure that the OP already has it, given that he mentioned having pounce. Spirit wolf totem gets you a +2 to attack rolls while flanking, which is quite a bit less interesting.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2013-09-20, 04:38 AM
I don't think there's any distinction in whirling frenzy that would cause its effects to stack with regular frenzy. Frenzy says, "This latter effect is not cumulative with haste or other effects that grant additional attacks," and that seems pretty clear cut. The fact that there is a cost seems fairly irrelevant.

Cleave gives you an extra attack, but the rest of the class is written as though it stacks. It doesn't prevent you from making attacks of opportunity. The standard effects that grant extra attacks but don't stack with each other all mimic Haste (Speed weapon, Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, etc.), and Frenzy is no exception as it specifically calls out that spell. Effects like Rapid Shot, Flurry of Blows, and Whirling Frenzy don't outright grant an extra attack, they give you an option to trade taking a penalty to every attack you make for one additional attack. Extra attacks bought in exchange for a drawback are not the same as an extra attack granted for no drawback such as that gained via Haste or Frenzy. Just the same, an extra attack that's triggered due to circumstances is also not an extra attack granted for no drawbacks, examples include Cleave, AoOs, and Improved Trip, and all of these will stack with the attack granted by Frenzy.

Yuric the Bold
2013-09-21, 04:26 AM
Question on Power Attack in combination with Leap Attack and Valorous weapon enchant...
I have been using the math formulae presented here for figuring out damage as per my weapon with Power Attack, Leap Attack, etc.
http://ihititwithmyaxe.tumblr.com/post/5994449301/the-charging-fighter-breaking-3-5-d-d
Is the math wrong?
Just curious.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2013-09-21, 06:39 AM
Question on Power Attack in combination with Leap Attack and Valorous weapon enchant...
I have been using the math formulae presented here for figuring out damage as per my weapon with Power Attack, Leap Attack, etc.
http://ihititwithmyaxe.tumblr.com/post/5994449301/the-charging-fighter-breaking-3-5-d-d
Is the math wrong?
Just curious.

I'm not going to read all that white text on a dark background, so I'll just summarize the often misunderstood points:

Download the Complete Warrior and Complete Adventurer errata (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a). Leap Attack was changed to a 100% increase, which is very intentionally not a multiplier. The same goes for Frenzied Berserker's improvements to Power Attack, instead of setting it to a different value it modifies your current Power Attack bonuses by +50% and +100%, again not a multiplier.

Two-handed Power Attack gives +2 damage per -1 to hit. Leap Attack increases it by 100%, making it +4 damage per -1 to hit. Supreme Power Attack again increases it by 100%, making it +8 damage per -1 to hit. None of these are multipliers, so you can total up your damage and then double everything for the Valorous weapon. Keep in mind that a critical hit is a multiplier, so a x2 crit with a valorous charge is instead x3 damage.

Edit: Armbands of Might give you an additional +2 to your normal Power Attack bonus damage when taking at least a -2 to hit for it. This bonus can be added on before increasing it by 100% twice for the above effects. It's only six additional damage, or twelve on a valorous charge, but on certain characters it can make a significant difference.

Mikey8625
2013-09-21, 09:53 PM
i assume your using power attack and 2 handed weapon,
combat brute may interest you, requires improved sunder

use momentum swing to turn your power attack modifier from 2/1 into 3/1
with a 2 handed weapon,

if your dm doesn't penalise you for sundering weapons or armour then sundering cleave can be useful to break down their armour without loosing action economy

http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-warrior--61/combat-brute--389/