holy chronocharms seem amazing!

[Devronq]

I was just looking at the MIC and I noticed chronocharms and holy they seem insanely overpowered and I've never heard anyone mention them before. This is assuming your using custom magic item rules. They are a neck slot but they specifically state you can wear as many as you want and benefit from all off them at once. So make them, as many as you like and slap on any ability the dm would allow. I personally allow just about anything, other than weapon.and.armor abilities to be on something like an amulet but I've never thought of somethong like this mean you could basically have any and all abilities of Amy item on this slot and never have to fill any item slots as everything would be covered. Anyone thought about this before? I know custom magic item rules are sketchy but anything I'm missing here?

[Baron Malkar]

What you are suggesting would be no different than custom ioun stones. the cronocharms are IIRC priced as slotless magic items. you would be better off just making a normal custom slotless magic item.

[Gwendol]

They are not underpriced. Limited useage per day, and rather small effects. Chronocharm of the horizon walker does see a lot of use, as getting extra movement is always welcome.

[eggynack]

Yeah, this doesn't really work all that well. If you start with the chronocharm, and add the new ability onto it, it costs an extra 50%, just like it would if you put it on a normal item. If you start with the other item, and add the chronocharm ability, you pay a significantly lower amount of money, but presumably cannot stack more than one of those in a slot, and you end up back at square one. This also just generally assumes that you keep the chronocharm ability to wear as many as you want, when those chronocharms are also other items that you only get one of per slot. There are some decent chronocharms, particularly horizon walker and uncaring archmage, but this doesn't look like a potential application for them.

[Devronq]

They are not underpriced. Limited useage per day, and rather small effects. Chronocharm of the horizon walker does see a lot of use, as getting extra movement is always welcome.

Ya mean on their own they are fine bit I'd you could make custom ones. I was unaware there were any rules for making skittles magic items where are they? Or what's the rule for them price wise?

[eggynack]

Ya mean on their own they are fine bit I'd you could make custom ones. I was unaware there were any rules for making skittles magic items where are they? Or what's the rule for them price wise?
You're looking for adding new abilities (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#addingNewAbilities).

[shaikujin]

I was just looking at the MIC and I noticed chronocharms and holy they seem insanely overpowered and I've never heard anyone mention them before.

Yup they're definitely amazing.

Wait till you see psionatices.



Not talked about often, but others have mentioned them before, me too:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14907160&postcount=186

The build in my sig uses psionatrix plus a bunch of other items that fit in the same slot.

Of course, if your game allows custom items, other even cheesier methods includes making them slotless or making a single chronocharm, then adding the properties of all the others to it.

My DM doesn't allow the latter 2 options though. And restricts properties to the published slots.

[ShurikVch]

The build in my sig uses psionatrix plus a bunch of other items that fit in the same slot.
By the way, how you do it?
AFAIK, it's impossible to use more than one pair of magic boots (for example), unless you have [epic] feat Additional Magic Item Space and more than one pair of feet.

[Chronos]

Also note that, even though you can wear as many as you want, you can only benefit from one of each kind, and it takes 24 hours to attune to them, so you can't just swap them out as soon as you've used their 1/day abilities.

[Morcleon]

Also note that, even though you can wear as many as you want, you can only benefit from one of each kind, and it takes 24 hours to attune to them, so you can't just swap them out as soon as you've used their 1/day abilities.

Except chronocharms specifically state that you may benefit from them all simultaneously.

If you're talking about the multiple boots thing, he could simply use the magic items stacking rules, multiplying the cost of all but the most expensive by 1.5 in order to be able to use them all simultaneously.

Also, I don't believe most items have attunement times, and thus can be used as soon as put on.

[Yuki Akuma]

Also, I don't believe most items have attunement times, and thus can be used as soon as put on.

Chronocharms have a 24 hour attunement period.

But yeah you can wear as many different ones as you please. Which is nifty, even if they're not really that great (except for Chronocharm of the Horizon Walker, which is awesome).

[shaikujin]

By the way, how you do it?
AFAIK, it's impossible to use more than one pair of magic boots (for example), unless you have [epic] feat Additional Magic Item Space and more than one pair of feet.


In general, while a character can actually wear many different items on a single slot, without specific feats (including the non-epic Extra Rings feat in ECS), he can only benefit from 1 of them.

However, there are a few items which specifically states in their text that they stack together and take up only 1 slot. Here are the ones I have learned of so far:

Throat slot:
6 Chronocharms takes up 1 slot (MIC Pg 85). Actually, it says any number, but there are only 6 listed types.
6 Psionatrices takes up 1 slot (Expanded Psionics Handbook Pg 175)


Bracer slot:
1 Bracelet of Bolts & 1 Bracelet of Thrust takes up 1 slot (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20021225a)


Face slot:
1 Turquoise Veil & 1 Veil of Whispers take up 1 slot (MIC Pg 212)


Special:
Poison Ring (Dragon Magazine Compendium Pg 115). This weapon is worn like a ring, but is a weapon rather than a ring. Technically, I can wear as many as I want, but infinite loops tend to be shot down very quickly in my group.

However, there's something called Talon Rings (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20021225a). It's a set of 8 rings that take up 1 ring slot.

Now, it doesn't have text supporting that I can enchant each of the 8 as an individual ring, so I can't. But it does set a precedence that 8 rings can fit each hand.

So i am using that precedence to show the possibility of being able to fit 8 Poison Rings on each hand.


Weapons:
The standard 2x elbow, sleeve, knee, boot blades.
There's also a bladed boot in one of the Faerun books.
then, there's the Braid blade.


Rings:
With that number of weapons that can be considered "held" at all times, that brings us to Ringswords (AE&G Pg 115). You can fit 1 ring on each weapon.




it takes 24 hours to attune to them, so you can't just swap them out as soon as you've used their 1/day abilities.

If it's just to get more uses of the 1/day abilities, a possible workaround is to wear 2 sets of the exact same 6 Chronocharms. Only one set would be active right? Once an ability of one of the Chronocharm has been used, swap it with the copy in the inactive set.

Would that work you think?

[ShurikVch]

Rings:
With that number of weapons that can be considered "held" at all times, that brings us to Ringswords (AE&G Pg 115). You can fit 1 ring on each weapon.

1. Ringsword is longsword and you not benefit from it unless you hold it.
2. Funny fact: I specifically mentioned boots, and it was like an only item slot you not described. :smallwink:

[Chronos]

Quoth Morcleon:

Except chronocharms specifically state that you may benefit from them all simultaneously.
Re-read the entry.

A chronocharm occupies the throat body slot, but it can be worn simultaneously with any number of other chronocharms, which all function normally. However, you can't wear more than one of the same chronocharm.
(emphasis mine)

[shaikujin]

1. Ringsword is longsword and you not benefit from it unless you hold it.
2. Funny fact: I specifically mentioned boots, and it was like an only item slot you not described. :smallwink:

1) Sorry, forgot to expand on the Ringsword. 2 ways to do this.

If DM allows reverse engineering, enchant the Ringsword's ability to hold a ring (by comparing it to a normal +3 longsword, this ability has a flat 4,000 gp cost) into say, your elbow blade/knee blade/sleeve blade/boot blade etc.

If that isn't allowed, add the sizing and morphing properties to the Ringsword, then morph it into elbow blade/knee blade/sleeve blade/boot blade etc

Draw them all out and walk around like a porcupine. No listed penalties for doing this. And now they are all "Drawn" and also "Held", by your elbow/knee/forearm/feet.

Though there are penalties to actually try attacking with them.


2) Whoops, I only listed the slots of what I was able to find so far. Boots slot is unfortunately one of those that I have not found yet.

[shaikujin]

Also note that, even though you can wear as many as you want, you can only benefit from one of each kind, and it takes 24 hours to attune to them, so you can't just swap them out as soon as you've used their 1/day abilities.



If it's just to get more uses of the 1/day abilities, a possible workaround is to wear 2 sets of the exact same 6 Chronocharms. Only one set would be active right? Once an ability of one of the Chronocharm has been used, swap it with the copy in the inactive set.

Would that work you think?



Hmm... by strict reading... even by taking them off to bathe/before sleeping etc, means I have to re-attune them for 24 hrs again...

Trying to swap them around does mean momentarily taking them off and it'll trigger the 24 hr re-attunement period.

So my idea above wouldn't work.

Ok, wear 2 of each chronocharm. Use one, remove and re-add to allow it to start attuning. In general, when wearing a multiple items of the same type, the newly added ones would not work. That means one that I didn't remove would work. So I can use it twice, but suffer a 24 hour cooldown. Wear 10 of each

Probably easier to ask DM if you can custom add the ability of the "Chronocharm of the Horizon Walker" to a "Chronocharm of the Horizon Walker" to double uses per day. Repeat for more uses/day.

[ShurikVch]

If that isn't allowed, add the sizing and morphing properties to the Ringsword, then morph it into elbow blade/knee blade/sleeve blade/boot blade etc
Morphing can
reshape a morphing weapon into any other melee or thrown weapon of the same size and type (light, one-handed, or two-handed). For instance, a morphing greatsword could become a spear, greataxe, or dire flail.
Longsword is one-handed weapon.
Elbow/knee/sleeve/boot blades are light weapons.

[shaikujin]

Morphing can
Longsword is one-handed weapon.
Elbow/knee/sleeve/boot blades are light weapons.

Correct, that's why both the "Sizing" and the "Morphing" properties are required:



If that isn't allowed, add the sizing and morphing properties to the Ringsword, then morph it into elbow blade/knee blade/sleeve blade/boot blade etc


The sizing property can change the Longsword into any size. Including reducing it into a weapon small enough to count as "light" for a medium sized creature.

Now that it's a light weapon, you can morph it into other types of light weapons.

Here's a better explanation:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6177439&postcount=12


Now, note that there are also folks that do not allow the sizing + morphing combo to work like this. So clear this with your DM.

[ShurikVch]

Correct, that's why both the "Sizing" and the "Morphing" properties are required:
...
The sizing property can change the Longsword into any size. Including reducing it into a weapon small enough to count as "light" for a medium sized creature.

Now that it's a light weapon, you can morph it into other types of light weapons.
But it's not a light weapon! :smallsigh:
And sizing special property cannot change weapon type from one-handed to light.
No matter what size it is, longsword never be a light weapon, because it's one-handed weapon.
If can "count as "light" for a medium sized creature", but it not actually light.
Balanced Blades CF of Corsair PRC (Dr #321) allow to treat any one-handed weapon as light (assuming you have WF with it and not wear medium or heavy armor), but i really doubt it allow to reshape, say, dagger into longsword.
Even worse: using your arguments, someone can claim ALL melee weapon in the game are light because there are always someone big enough to treat it as "light".

[shaikujin]

But it's not a light weapon! :smallsigh:
And sizing special property cannot change weapon type from one-handed to light.
No matter what size it is, longsword never be a light weapon, because it's one-handed weapon.
If can "count as "light" for a medium sized creature", but it not actually light.
Balanced Blades CF of Corsair PRC (Dr #321) allow to treat any one-handed weapon as light (assuming you have WF with it and not wear medium or heavy armor), but i really doubt it allow to reshape, say, dagger into longsword.
Even worse: using your arguments, someone can claim ALL melee weapon in the game are light because there are always someone big enough to treat it as "light".

Yup, that's the exact reason why some folks don't allow this to work.



Unlike the simple/martial/exotic proficiency designations, the light/1 handed/2 handed designation of a weapon isn't simply fixed to what kind it is though. A dagger sized for a medium sized creature is normally a light weapon when wielded by a medium sized creature. But if it's not of the appropriate size then this changes.



Light, One-Handed, and Two-Handed Melee Weapons

This designation is a measure of how much effort it takes to wield a weapon in combat. It indicates whether a melee weapon, when wielded by a character of the weapon’s size category, is considered a light weapon, a one-handed weapon, or a two-handed weapon.

...

The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all.




As for the 2nd part on all weapons qualify for being light - it'll only work if that "someone big enough" actually holds the weapon though.

So the player will have to bring that "someone big enough" along, and pass him the weapon to hold. Then morph it. Then pass it back to the player.



If the sizing + morphing combo isn't allowed at your games, then just use the first method I mentioned and add the Ringsword property for 4000 gp.



If you still want a RAW weapon that can change into any other, use the Everchanging Blade from Underdark (same page as the morphing ability).

[Rubik]

My favorite way to use chronocharms? Stack them with the necklace of natural weapons property, from Savage Species, and have them all affect your (improved) unarmed strike. The enhancement bonuses won't stack, but the weapon properties will.

That's one of the many ways I stacked stuff on this build's (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15474863#post15474863) unarmed strike. The only reason I didn't have a MUCH higher effective bonus was because I ran out of money. As it was, I had an effective bonus in the mid-30s, and could've gone into the 60s, or even 70s, had I been able to craft my gear.

[ShurikVch]

If the sizing + morphing combo isn't allowed at your games, then just use the first method I mentioned and add the Ringsword property for 4000 gp.
...
If you still want a RAW weapon that can change into any other, use the Everchanging Blade from Underdark (same page as the morphing ability).
Ringsword is not a property, it's very specific magic weapon and, even if you can create one, you can't "add" such property to any other weapon (homebrew and Rule 0 aside).
The same is with Everchanging Blade - it's not an enchantment, but specific magical weapon.

Some time ago people on forums often asked: Can I make Full Plate Rhino Hide (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicArmor.htm#rhinoHide)? Can I make dragonhide (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialMaterials.htm#dragonhide) Rhino Hide? General consensus was: No, you can't!
If such ruling exist for armor, I can't see how it's different for weapon.

[shaikujin]

Ringsword is not a property, it's very specific magic weapon and, even if you can create one, you can't "add" such property to any other weapon (homebrew and Rule 0 aside).
The same is with Everchanging Blade - it's not an enchantment, but specific magical weapon.

Some time ago people on forums often asked: Can I make Full Plate Rhino Hide (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicArmor.htm#rhinoHide)? Can I make dragonhide (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialMaterials.htm#dragonhide) Rhino Hide? General consensus was: No, you can't!
If such ruling exist for armor, I can't see how it's different for weapon.


Right the way I said it was confusing. By "Ringsword property", I don't mean adding "Ringsword" as a property. I meant the specific "ring holding" magical ability for a Ringsword to hold a ring. This "ring holding" effect costs 4,000 gp if you break down the costs.

Ringsword is a +3 longsword that costs 22,315 gp. Besides the +3 enhancement, it has 1 other special ability to hold rings.

A +3 longsword without any other property costs 18,315 gp.

A +4 longsword without any other property costs 32,315 gp.

Since the Ringsword is cheaper than a +4 longsword, we can surmise that the "ring holding" magic ability isn't a +1 enchancement (because that will push the cost to 32,315 gp)

Therefore, this "ring holding" magic ability is a flat cost. 22,315 - 18,315 = 4,000 gp.



Of course, all this is contingent on your games allowing reverse engineering properties of specific items this way. And hence, why i mention the bolded part in my earlier post:



If DM allows reverse engineering, enchant the Ringsword's ability to hold a ring (by comparing it to a normal +3 longsword, this ability has a flat 4,000 gp cost) into say, your elbow blade/knee blade/sleeve blade/boot blade etc.






Some time ago people on forums often asked: Can I make Full Plate Rhino Hide (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicArmor.htm#rhinoHide)? Can I make dragonhide (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialMaterials.htm#dragonhide) Rhino Hide? General consensus was: No, you can't!
If such ruling exist for armor, I can't see how it's different for weapon.

This example is more of an issue with materials. Something like "Can I make leather armor out of a metallic material" or "Can I make matallic armor out of leather"...

[Rubik]

The MIC does specify that you can pull properties from specific items (such as the ringsword) to add to other items. So if you want a +1 ringarmorspike you can have it (for the 4,000 gp mentioned in shaikujin's post).

[ShurikVch]

The MIC does specify that you can pull properties from specific items (such as the ringsword) to add to other items. So if you want a +1 ringarmorspike you can have it (for the 4,000 gp mentioned in shaikujin's post).
Which page?

[Rubik]

Which page?Indirectly, page 233, under "Improving Magic Items." It starts by saying that you can improve magic items "with virtually no restrictions," and then goes on to list the restrictions (which are basically by cost and body slot). I could've sworn there was a more explicit wording, but that may have been in the A&EG. Unfortunately, the A&EG is such a huge organizational nightmare that it may take some time to find it.