New fire effects.

[m4th]

I certainly love a good art upgrade, but something about the new fire effects bothers me.

In previous versions of fireball/flame strike/meteor swarm, the inside of the fire effect has had the white or yellow coloration, indicating the hottest part of the flame. The outside of the effect was always dark red or dark orange, indicating the coolest part of the flame. I understand that magic is magic, not physics, but the old art makes good sense intuitively, because we all know sort of what fire looks like.

See here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0020.html) and here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0345.html) for fireball, here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0853.html) for flamestrike, and here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0442.html) and here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0653.html) for meteor swarm.

Exceptions to this rule in the past are scorching ray (here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0285.html) and here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0797.html)), and firestorm (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0359.html).

With the new fire effect, the dark orange interior looks plain odd. I don't have the graphic design skills to see what the fire would look like with a white/yellow interior, but I imagine getting to colors to work with the layers of translucency is part of the decision to put the darker color in the middle.

What do you think? I know a lot of people have been posting that they really like the new effects, so I'm sure I'm in the minority here. Anyone else have an opinion?

P.S. I know explosive runes has the same white/yellow interior as fireball. That's enough hypertext for one post, I think.

[DrTaco]

I actually like the new effect. I think it adds an interesting, slightly more dynamic flare that sets it apart from the rest of the scene. Almost makes it seem more alive.

[Silva Stormrage]

Ya I also think the new fire looks a lot better IMO. I am not much of an artist so I can't critique anything specific but I enjoy the new fireball style much more.

[Ohiohi]

It's redcloak the science expert(even if only chemistry expert), not V :P

[zimmerwald1915]

What do you think? I know a lot of people have been posting that they really like the new effects, so I'm sure I'm in the minority here. Anyone else have an opinion?
For what it's worth, here's (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0799.html) and example of a fireball, drawn using the latest fire effects, with a pale yellow core and a dark orange corona.

[Yoyoyo]

Could be due to all the sand Belkar is kicking up? Making the fire effect look different?

Or the computer upgrade from Kickstarter? (I think Giant got an upgrade, right?)

[Sunken Valley]

I think it's V exclusive. Malack (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0873.html) and Xykon (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0886.html) still use the old effect.

[factotum]

I think he said he didn't have any excess to upgrade his computer or tablet in the end, but that's off topic...

On topic, I'm not so sure this is a result of an art upgrade so much as this is the first time we've seen Firewall in action, and I suspect putting the darker colours at the bottom of the wall more clearly shows where it runs than the other way round would, especially since the fire is sitting on top of pale yellow sand!

[m4th]

For what it's worth, here's (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0799.html) and example of a fireball, drawn using the latest fire effects, with a pale yellow core and a dark orange corona.

Good one, I didn't recognize the new fire style on that page.


...On topic, I'm not so sure this is a result of an art upgrade so much as this is the first time we've seen Firewall in action, and I suspect putting the darker colours at the bottom of the wall more clearly shows where it runs than the other way round would, especially since the fire is sitting on top of pale yellow sand!

V's first spell is a fireball, and it uses the same orange-inside color that firewall does. That being said, comic 920 makes it clear that an orange firewall as the backdrop for the action looks pretty good. Looking at some photos of a napalm-based wall of fire, it's clear that the white-hot sections of flame are spread throughout the fire.

Additionally, I kind of hate that my first thread on this forum looks like I'm bagging on Rich's comic. I've read through the complete archive many, many times, and this is really the first time one of Mr. Burlew's decisions has not sat well with me. It really is a consistently excellent work of art.

[littlebum2002]

It's entirely possible that Rich just forgot which order the light-to-dark fire should go.

I mean, he has SO many things he has to keep consistent over 900+ strips, and something like this is just a minor detail. I doubt when drawing fire he thinks "Hey, every other time I drew fire, was the dark part in the center or on the outside?" He probably just thinks 'What looks better?"

I don't know what color effect would look better in these 2 panels, but I think the fire effect looks much more realistic than it has before in the strip.

[Lord Torath]

For anyone wanting to know what flame is and why it looks the way it does, here's a short video explaining it: http://vimeo.com/40271657

One of my favorites!

[Excise]

I like the new effect also, for no other reason than I think it's prettier.

[Calimehter]

I wonder . . .

Could it be that a fireball into a big mob 'looks better' with the lighter colors on the outer edge of the flame so that we can see all the mooks better, while the fireball in the duel with Z'zditri (sp?) is inverted because the target of the spell is at the center of the spell (and less obscured by the darker oranges) instead of all around the perimeter?

[Mauve Shirt]

I like this firewall. The way the colors fade out and the lightest sort of blends into the sky. The lack of stark outline actually helps bring the bright orange flames into focus. Throughout the strip, for me at least, the fire seemed more immediate and encroaching upon our heroes than it would if the dark orange contrasted against the sky.

[Geordnet]

Try to think of it this way:

Instead of the brighter spots being the hottest part of the fire, imagine that they are the thinnest. Yes, I know fire doesn't really work that way, but Rich only has so many tools to illustrate depth/density. This pattern makes it perfectly clear that the flame is forming a wall behind the PCs.

[jogiff]

Not all fire is created equal. The fire from the hotel (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0243.html) didn't have the superhot center and Wall of Fire only does 2d6+CL damage to creatures directly inside of it.

[Anarion]

Try to think of it this way:

Instead of the brighter spots being the hottest part of the fire, imagine that they are the thinnest. Yes, I know fire doesn't really work that way, but Rich only has so many tools to illustrate depth/density. This pattern makes it perfectly clear that the flame is forming a wall behind the PCs.

I think this is what the effect is going for: darker color seems to equal more dense flame for the wall of fire. It also looks a bit better going from dark at the bottom to light on top, even if fire doesn't really work that way.

Of course, wall of fire itself is kind of ridiculous, since it only radiates heat in one direction, so I'm not sure that a discussion of how fire is supposed to look according to physics is the most applicable thing.

[Katuko]

From the aerial view it looks almost as if the brighter parts are stretching outwards from the center of the circle. V would naturally want to place the hottest point away from his own party.

The fireball is curious, but then again it looks a bit more like a stream in the process of exploding rather than a thrown ball like Z received. The brighter parts would be the blast wave expanding outwards, and the orange is the fading trail it leaves in its wake. Some fireballs (http://ufodigest.com/news/1008/images/fireball.jpg) do indeed have a darker center, as well. Brighter spots flicker around inside the flame.

V's current flame effects may look slightly weird still, but I think they work visually.

[Amphiox]

Don't forget that the hottest part of a fire doesn't have to have the lightest color, and the middle (or base) of the fire doesn't necessarily have to be the hottest part of it. (If for example, oxygen is relatively choked out from the base by soot, ash, and, oh, let's say, lots of sand in the air....)

[Oko and Qailee]

Ya I also think the new fire looks a lot better IMO. I am not much of an artist so I can't critique anything specific but I enjoy the new fireball style much more.

Whoa whoa, everyone has a right to critique, regardless of their level of expertise :smallsmile:


Anyway, my two cooper pieces.
I like the orange layer and new fire in general.

In the strips with Xykon and Malak mentioned above, I think part of the reason why they were colored that way was because of the difference in spells and the situation from an artsy standpoint.

Xykon's has meteors in his spell, and its important to highlight to show that the meteors are there, a bright contrast does this better.

Flame strike was also being cast in a darkish place and was a divine sacred damagy spell, so making the bright center contrasts the backdrop better and draws more visual attention to the spell.

In contrast, V is casting on a brighter background, and I don't think Rich is trying to draw attention to the spells themselves, but the panel as a whole, so not making it uber bright helps with that.

Idk, thats just wishful thinking, I just woke up.

[Coat]

It should be purple (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wallOfFire.htm). But I SO don't care*.

Plus Purple? Against a orange/yellow sky? V-man has more taste than that.

I think it looks magnificent.
If the darker colours were at the top, and the lighter colours at the bottom, balancing the frames where people are standing in front of the fire would be very hard without them looking a bit weird.


* The fire actually is violet, however, the desert is the remains of an ancient sea, and contains a large proportion of salt, and the battle has stirred it up so there's a fine salt dust in the air. The airborne salt dust is heated by the nearly-invisible violet fire, glowing a strong characteristic sodium orange which overpowers the colour of the fire itself. The yellow notes at the top are the effect of the violet flames against the dull tan sky. Simples.

[Caractacus]

* The fire actually is violet, however, the desert is the remains of an ancient sea, and contains a large proportion of salt, and the battle has stirred it up so there's a fine salt dust in the air. The airborne salt dust is heated by the nearly-invisible violet fire, glowing a strong characteristic sodium orange which overpowers the colour of the fire itself. The yellow notes at the top are the effect of the violet flames against the dull tan sky. Simples.

:smallconfused::smalltongue::smallbiggrin:
:smallcool:
That was excellent...

[Skarn]

I should point out that the spell specifies a "curtain" of flame, so I would assume the hottest (and thus brightest) part of the flame should indeed be at the top. Just saying.

[ReaderAt2046]

I think the wall is darker near the bottom because it is thicker.