What's the best ECL 12 monster

[Invader]

What's the best ECL 12 monster you can play? Lower ECL with a class level or 2 would be fine as well.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Best at what?

A Hatchling Phaerimm (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20040313a) (+2 LA, its one racial HD gets replaced by its first class level) that takes Sorcerer + full casting PrCs 10 gets the spellcasting capability of a Sorcerer 20.

A creature with the Half-Illithid template (LA +5) can take Illithid Savant (SS) and as long as he's able to devour other Illithid Savants (or devour Simulacrums or Ice Assassins of himself) he can have an infinite number of class features, feats, racial abilities, etc. including 20th+ level spellcasting and manifesting in every class that can do it and the Tarrasque's Regeneration ability.

Someone is bound to suggest some combination of creature + template with Regeneration, immunity to the damage type that overcomes its regeneration, and immunity to nonlethal damage, for total immunity to hit point damage. However, WotC has officially made two separate rulings that prevent this from working: That becoming immune to any sort of damage that bypasses your regeneration causes your regeneration to become fast healing, as the vulnerability must be present for regeneration to be present. Also that immunity to nonlethal damage makes it so your regeneration ability is no longer capable of converting real damage into nonlethal damage, and all damage you take remains real damage and bypasses your regeneration.

[Invader]

The best at anything in general I guess. We're going to b playing in a campaign where we'll be dying a lot as the DM has told us so I'm using it as a chance to play some of the higher ECL races that don't usually get played since they most likely won't last real long.

Since its going to be a brutal campaign, the stronger the better and a certain amount of cheese is allowed so I'm fine with hp damage immune monsters as long as they're inside the12 ECL.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

In that case, I'd go Hatchling Phaerimm, Sorcerer 5/ Mindbender 1/ Incantatrix 4, with Item Familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm) at 3rd level and every skill point from then on invested into it for the greatest return, applied toward Spellcraft. Ability score priority is Cha > Con > Int > Dex. Get a custom Runestaff (MIC p224) containing whatever spells you want, make it an Ancestral Relic (BoED, requires good alignment but not exalted status) and you can freely decide what spells it gives you and even switch what spells it contains. Use this to get any 1/day buffs such as Mind Blank and Superior Resistance so you're not wasting your limited spells known on them. Remember that this character has Sorcerer 20 spellcasting. You can get Iron Will to qualify for Incantatrix via the Otyugh Hole in CS for 3,000 gp instead of spending a feat on it. Definitely get the feat Mindsight (LoM p126), and have the spell Ray of Stupidity to disable low-Int opponents in one or two shots. Take two flaws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm) to get two extra feats.

Use Cooperative Metamagic and Metamagic Effect from Incantatrix to add Persistent Spell to your buffs by making a Spellcraft check, which you can take ten on. Cooperative Metamagic can be used on your own spells outside of combat as the action economy system only exists during initiative, or you can persist Arcane Spellsurge first and use it regardless of action economy.

This will give you 2(3+Int mod) persistent buffs per day, which should include the following:
Shield, Superior Invisibility, Ray Deflection, Arcane Spellsurge, Foresight, Magic Circle Against (alignment), Fell Drain Fell Frighten Death Armor, Fell Drain Fell Frighten Fire Shield twice, Fell Drain Fell Frighten Thunderlance + Greater Magic Weapon, Fell Drain Fell Frighten Cloud of Knives (multiple times), Extraordinary Spell Aimed Antimagic Field, etc.

You should also have plenty of hour/level and 24-hour buffs, such as Greater Mage Armor, Heart of Air/Water/Fire/Earth in CM, the Primal X spells in Dragon Magic, Greater Anticipate Teleportation, etc.

I'd pick up Invisible Spell from Cityscape to intentionally increase your casting time when needed, otherwise Arcane Spellsurge will be of little benefit. Split Ray is also useful, as are Lesser Metamagic Rods and the above Fell Drain and Fell Frighten from LM.

Your Item Familiar should be a ring which you wear a glove or gauntlet over so opponents will never have line of sight/effect to it and can never target it directly with Sunder, Slight of Hand, spells, etc. An item familiar is an intelligent item which is regarded as a construct, and constructs cannot be disabled or destroyed by dispelling or disjoining and even continue to function in antimagic and dead magic areas.

[Invader]

In that case, I'd go Hatchling Phaerimm, Sorcerer 5/ Mindbender 1/ Incantatrix 4, with Item Familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm) at 3rd level and every skill point from then on invested into it for the greatest return, applied toward Spellcraft. Ability score priority is Cha > Con > Int > Dex. Get a custom Runestaff (MIC p224) containing whatever spells you want, make it an Ancestral Relic (BoED, requires good alignment but not exalted status) and you can freely decide what spells it gives you and even switch what spells it contains. Use this to get any 1/day buffs such as Mind Blank and Superior Resistance so you're not wasting your limited spells known on them. Remember that this character has Sorcerer 20 spellcasting. You can get Iron Will to qualify for Incantatrix via the Otyugh Hole in CS for 3,000 gp instead of spending a feat on it. Definitely get the feat Mindsight (LoM p126), and have the spell Ray of Stupidity to disable low-Int opponents in one or two shots. Take two flaws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm) to get two extra feats.

Use Cooperative Metamagic and Metamagic Effect from Incantatrix to add Persistent Spell to your buffs by making a Spellcraft check, which you can take ten on. Cooperative Metamagic can be used on your own spells outside of combat as the action economy system only exists during initiative, or you can persist Arcane Spellsurge first and use it regardless of action economy.

This will give you 2(3+Int mod) persistent buffs per day, which should include the following:
Shield, Superior Invisibility, Ray Deflection, Arcane Spellsurge, Foresight, Magic Circle Against (alignment), Fell Drain Fell Frighten Death Armor, Fell Drain Fell Frighten Fire Shield twice, Fell Drain Fell Frighten Thunderlance + Greater Magic Weapon, Fell Drain Fell Frighten Cloud of Knives (multiple times), Extraordinary Spell Aimed Antimagic Field, etc.

You should also have plenty of hour/level and 24-hour buffs, such as Greater Mage Armor, Heart of Air/Water/Fire/Earth in CM, the Primal X spells in Dragon Magic, Greater Anticipate Teleportation, etc.

I'd pick up Invisible Spell from Cityscape to intentionally increase your casting time when needed, otherwise Arcane Spellsurge will be of little benefit. Split Ray is also useful, as are Lesser Metamagic Rods and the above Fell Drain and Fell Frighten from LM.

Your Item Familiar should be a ring which you wear a glove or gauntlet over so opponents will never have line of sight/effect to it and can never target it directly with Sunder, Slight of Hand, spells, etc. An item familiar is an intelligent item which is regarded as a construct, and constructs cannot be disabled or destroyed by dispelling or disjoining and even continue to function in antimagic and dead magic areas.

Can you explain how phaerimm gain 9th level spells at 9th level? I'm reading the description but all I see is that the phaerimms class level equals his class level so if I understand correctly I could take 9 levels of fighter and still have 9th level casting? Is the idea to take 9 levels in sorc and they would stack with the phaerimms caster levels so 18th level casting at 9th level?

[Urpriest]

Can you explain how phaerimm gain 9th level spells at 9th level? I'm reading the description but all I see is that the phaerimms class level equals his class level so if I understand correctly I could take 9 levels of fighter and still have 9th level casting? Is the idea to take 9 levels in sorc and they would stack with the phaerimms caster levels so 18th level casting at 9th level?

That's the idea, yeah. It's pretty stupendously cheesy and based on the fact that whoever wrote the Phaerimm had no idea how monsters work...but it exists should you want to make use of it.

If you're looking for something solid, with a high monster ECL that you wouldn't normally play as itself but that can keep up with a Tier 3-ish party, I would suggest Succubus. It's potentially quite hit or miss, so it works well for a "I want to try this out" character. It's got a lot of at-will abilities that give it quite a lot of potential out of combat, and a few interesting tricks to use in combat.

[Invader]

I thought about a succubus but I don't think the hps I'd have would be feasible for how hard the campaign is going to be

[Invader]

I'm contemplating a steel dragon build but can seem to find a good handbook or guidelines.

[ShurikVch]

I really doubt your DM will allow you to play it, but I will show you one of the strongest possible creatures by RAW ECL 12
Exceptional Petitioner(Abyss)/Half-Troll/Quasilycanthrope(Liopleurodon)/Advanced Red Great Wyrm Sorcerer 4
Colossal+ Giant (Fire, Shapechanger)
Hit Dice: 2d8+1,037 plus 4d4+68+6
Initiative: +1 (Dex)
Speed: 40 ft., fly 250 ft. (clumsy)
AC: 63 (–8 size, +1 Dex, +60 natural)
Attacks: Bite +31 melee, 2 claws +27 melee, 2 wings +26 melee, tail slap +26 melee
Damage: Bite 8d6+27, claw 4d8+15, wing 4d6+15, tail slap 4d8+39
Face/Reach: 40 ft. by 80 ft./20 ft.
Special Attacks: Acidic vapor, crush 8d6+36 (DC 57), tail sweep 4d6+36 (DC 57), frightful presence (DC 51), rend 8d6+40, spells (caster level 37th)
Special Qualities: Acid resistance 10, immunities, disguise self, DR 10/silver, fast healing 5, scent, SR 46, blindsight, keen senses (darkvision 7,600 ft.), fire subtype
Saves: Fort +24, Ref +5, Will +18
Abilities: Str 65, Dex 12, Con 51, Int 30, Wis 33, Cha 30
Skills: Appraise +44, Balance +33, Bluff +72, Climb +54, Concentration +78, Diplomacy +78, Escape Artist +36, Heal +41, Intimidate +78, Intuit Direction +41, Jump +85, Knowledge (arcana) +72, Knowledge (history) +72, Knowledge (local) +72, Knowledge (nature) +72, Listen +72, Search +72, Spellcraft +72, Spot +72, Swim +54
Feats: Cleave, Combat Casting, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Great Cleave, Hover, Improved Darkvision, Improved Spell Capacity (19th), Improved Spell Capacity (11th), Improved Spell Capacity (12th), Improved Spell Capacity (13th), Mobility, Power Attack, Quicken Spell, Quicken Spell-Like Ability, Snatch, Spell Opportunity, Spellcasting Harrier, Weapon Focus (claw), Wingover
Challenge Rating: 42
Alignment: Chaotic Evil
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +6
Immunities: Sleep, paralysis, electricity, mind-influencing effects and poison.
Fire Subtype: Fire immunity, double damage from cold except on a successful save.
Sorcerer Spells Known (6/9/9/9/8/8/8/8/7/7/2/2/1/1: base DC 21 + spell level): 0—arcane mark, daze, detect magic, ghost sound, mage hand, prestidigitation, ray of frost, read magic, resistance; 1st—cause fear, enlarge, expeditious retreat, reduce, ventriloquism; 2nd—darkness, detect thoughts, mirror image, see invisibility, web; 3rd—fireball, greater magic weapon, haste, wind wall; 4th—confusion, polymorph other, polymorph self, stoneskin; 5th—magic jar, passwall, teleport, wall of force; 6th—flesh to stone, greater dispelling, true seeing; 7th—control undead, delayed blast fireball, prismatic spray; 8th—etherealness, horrid wilting, symbol; 9th—meteor swarm, power word kill, wish.
Sources:
Advanced Red Great Wyrm - Epic Level Handbook (61HD, LA +0)
Exceptional Petitioner(Abyss) - Manual of the Planes (drops to 2 HD, became outsider, LA still +0, but Advancement: None)
Half-troll - Fiend Folio (LA +5, still Advancement: None, but became giant thus legal for quasilycanthropy)
Quasilycanthrope (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20040721a) - (Shapechanger, LA +1, gain Advancement: By character class.)
Liopleurodon - Dragon #318, pg. 66 (colossal predator)
P.S. Sorcerer 4 - just for extra +4 ECL. As well can be commoner 4 or truenamer 4 :smallwink:

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

If you want to be a melee character, that Phaerimm build can Persist spells like Draconic Polymorph: Cave Troll, Bite of the Werebear, and Wraithstrike. Those will give you Str 53, Dex 15, Con 37, +18 natural armor, Dazing Blow, Pounce, Rake, Rend, Improved Grab, you get Power Attack, Multiattack, and Blind Fight for free, and all of your attacks are made as touch attacks, ignoring opponents' armor, shield, and natural armor bonuses. Your attack routine with Power Attack would be 2 claws +21 for 2d6+25, bite +19 for 1d8+14 plus Improved Grab, 2 rakes +21 for 2d6+14, rend if both claws hit for 4d6+22, and anyone you hit with both claws has to make a Fort save DC 27 or be Dazed for one round. That's on top of the Fell Drain Fell Frighten Death Armor and Fire Shield twice, so anyone who attacks you takes some damage, gets three negative levels, and gets Shaken > Frightened > Panicked for ten rounds. Plus you'll still have Superior Invisibility so nothing will ever see you, Foresight so you'll never get caught off guard, Shield and Greater Mage Armor for another +10 AC, Ray Deflection for immunity to ranged touch attacks, etc.