DR vs Resist

[yougi]

The topic of the difference between DR and Resistances has caused lots of confusion at my table, where most players are either from 4E or 1E, and neither side seem to understand.

I therefore plan on simply changing DRX/Y to Resist X all non-Y weapons. For example, DR10/magic would become Resist 10 all non-magical weapons; DR5/piercing would become Resist 5 bludgeoning and Resist 5 slashing; DR17/- would become Resist 17 weapon damage.

Is there something I'm missing which would make this switch problematic?

[NeoPhoenix0]

A bludgeoning and piercing weapon bypasses DR 10/piercing, but would be reduced by bludgeoning resistance 10.

[eggynack]

This seems like it'd be a bit inordinately complicated, along with the issue that NeoPhoenix0 listed. What would DR 5/adamantine become? resistance 5 darkwood, dragonhide, cold iron, mithral, silver, and then every other non-SRD material? Writing all of that out is just ridiculous. Additionally, how would DR 5/good work? Would it be resistance 5 not-good-aligned?This doesn't really seem to work.

Edit: In other words, you'd basically have to write it as resistance 5 not-piercing, and resistance 10 not-good.

[PersonMan]

Honestly, if you're willing to write out stuff like that, just change

DR 5/cold iron

to

DR 5, pierced by cold iron

or

DR 5, Cold Iron Vulnerable

Cold Iron Vulnerable: An X takes 5 more damage from cold iron weapons.

[eggynack]

Cold Iron Vulnerable: An X takes 5 more damage from cold iron weapons.
This isn't really what happens though. If that were the case, you'd take standard weapon damage and add five to it, which would alter the way the HP of these creatures should look. It pretty necessarily has to be "An X takes five less damage from weapons, unless they're cold iron. I do like the "writing things out" method though. I prefer the "doing it the way it is" method, but if there's confusion, just saying what happens with the ability is a solid fallback.

[PersonMan]

This isn't really what happens though.

No, it really is.

Instead of DR 5/cold iron, where you reduce all damage but cold iron induced damage by 5, you have DR 5 + Cold Iron Vulnerable, where you reduce all damage by 5, but Cold Iron does 5 more.

Basically, you have a workaround spelled-out version of DR that adds extra damage equal to normal reduction.

With DR 5 + Cold Iron Vulnerable

-5 damage from DR
+5 damage 'cause Cold Iron Vulnerable
= 0 changed damage

vs

-5 damage from DR
+0 damage 'cause steel weapon
= -5 damage

With DR 5/cold iron

-0 damage from DR 'cause Cold Iron weapon
= 0 changed damage

vs

-5 damage from DR 'cause steel weapon
= -5 damage

[yougi]

A bludgeoning and piercing weapon bypasses DR 10/piercing, but would be reduced by bludgeoning resistance 10.

That is a damn good point.


This seems like it'd be a bit inordinately complicated, along with the issue that NeoPhoenix0 listed. What would DR 5/adamantine become? resistance 5 darkwood, dragonhide, cold iron, mithral, silver, and then every other non-SRD material? Writing all of that out is just ridiculous. Additionally, how would DR 5/good work? Would it be resistance 5 not-good-aligned?This doesn't really seem to work.

Edit: In other words, you'd basically have to write it as resistance 5 not-piercing, and resistance 10 not-good.

That is indeed what I was planning on. I don't see it as quite that problematic (although writing out all the materials the creature resists would be a problem).


Honestly, if you're willing to write out stuff like that, just change

DR 5/cold iron

to

DR 5, pierced by cold iron

or

DR 5, Cold Iron Vulnerable

Cold Iron Vulnerable: An X takes 5 more damage from cold iron weapons.

Thank you for your response. While I think your propositions are better than the official way, they don't really solve my problem. My problem is that my players don't see when to apply DR and when to apply Resists. I have a Warlock PC who tries to apply its DR/cold iron to elemental damage, and I see his logic. I have another one who doesn't get whether 5/piercing means he takes less from piercing, or Blugeoning and slashing, and we have to go through it each time.


This isn't really what happens though. If that were the case, you'd take standard weapon damage and add five to it, which would alter the way the HP of these creatures should look. It pretty necessarily has to be "An X takes five less damage from weapons, unless they're cold iron. I do like the "writing things out" method though. I prefer the "doing it the way it is" method, but if there's confusion, just saying what happens with the ability is a solid fallback.

Well, to be fair, DR5/- and +5 damage from cold iron weapons is the same as DR5/cold iron.

[PersonMan]

Thank you for your response. While I think your propositions are better than the official way, they don't really solve my problem. My problem is that my players don't see when to apply DR and when to apply Resists. I have a Warlock PC who tries to apply its DR/cold iron to elemental damage, and I see his logic. I have another one who doesn't get whether 5/piercing means he takes less from piercing, or Blugeoning and slashing, and we have to go through it each time.

Ahhh, this issue.

How about a flowchart? Run the drill the same way Xteen times and they'll get it. Or they're hopeless but have a flowchart. Better than just hopeless.

I'll make you one in a moment here, time to fire up the ol' image processor...

EDIT: Ok, here we are.

EDIT 2: Nevermind, the image is absurdly large. Just go here (http://i.imgur.com/WvvQ6Yp.jpg) and don't click expand because it's roughly five times the size it needs to be.

[KillianHawkeye]

My problem is that my players don't see when to apply DR and when to apply Resists. I have a Warlock PC who tries to apply its DR/cold iron to elemental damage, and I see his logic. I have another one who doesn't get whether 5/piercing means he takes less from piercing, or Blugeoning and slashing, and we have to go through it each time.

It's really not too complicated. Resistances only apply to energy damage. Damage Reduction only applies to weapon damage (or natural attacks).

But if somebody can't remember that DR tells what is necessary to do full damage rather than what it resists after you walk them through it a dozen times, I don't think I have any useful advice.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

But... but DR is for weapons, Energy resistance is to, well, energy. I can see where a group not familiar with 3.5/D20/PF might get tripped up, but enough to use a complicated house rule? Plus there are abilities to bypass DR, but fewer to bypass resistances.

[yougi]

Plus there are abilities to bypass DR, but fewer to bypass resistances.

That is a good point.



I'd still like to point out that I believe that differentiating DR and Resists, which in the end do the exact same thing, was not the most optimal thing. In fact, 4E made DR into Resist, and all is well in their world. I mean, regarding that rule.