What CR would you guys say this encounter is?

[Abbul]

First of all, I sent my group against a CR 9 encounter, at least based on my interpretation of RAW. 2 level 4 Orc Barbarians and a level 2 Ettin Barbarian. The Ettin turned out to be really hard, and dropped the monk and cleric, and I had to make it 5 ft step away and run away from the rogue to charge the Ranger on its next turn. The rogue tumbled behind it after the charge to avoid the AoO and killed it. If it full attacked the rogue she would have been slaughtered, and then the Ranger would have been next. So it seemed to be tougher than a CR 9.. Especially considering the Ettin alone was considered a CR of 8. It was wielding a Large Battleaxe and Large Scimitar, both MW. With its Rage its attack was +20/+15 for both hands (4 attacks) at 2d6 + 11 and 1d8 + 11.

Then I thought about how cool it would be to go a step further with optimizing a small bit on the Ettin's superior two weapon fighting. A level 2 Fighter with Strongarm bracers (taking away its wealth for other equipment) and EWP (Bastard Sword). I ran some numbers in my head and it would have a high accuracy with all 4 swings at 3d8 (right? I could be wrong on the Huge Bastard Sword damage) + 10. An average round is 94 damage I believe I figured out. The 2 "tanks" (Dwarf Cleric with 30 AC vs Giants, and a monk) both have 72 hit points, 81 after they level. (we play PCs have max health for their HD cause otherwise death would be way too common it seems)

Basically, that CR 8 Ettin, again based on my interpretation of RAW, would be way more powerful than a CR 8 Human Fighter.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The CR system is a bit lopsided, especially when comparing monsters with class levels to PCs of equal CR. Keep in mind though that a party of ~8th level characters should have access to spells like Web, Entangle, Solid Fog, Glitterdust, Heat Metal (makes it drop a weapon), Sleet/Ice Storm, etc. Any one of those things can severely limit that opponent's impact on an encounter. If your PCs are a bunch of mundane warriors who can't do anything special/magical, then they deserve to get beat up by an even stronger mundane warrior.

[Runestar]

The ettin shines in straightforward, upfront fights. Did your PCs just charge headlong into combat? That's probably where it all started to go downhill.

Basically, it is a dumb bruiser with a low will save. Debuff it first with glitterdust, slow or similar spell, and it should be much easier to defeat.

[Abbul]

The ettin shines in straightforward, upfront fights. Did your PCs just charge headlong into combat? That's probably where it all started to go downhill.

Basically, it is a dumb bruiser with a low will save. Debuff it first with glitterdust, slow or similar spell, and it should be much easier to defeat.

It was under the guise of a standard little orc fight. They saw a little wooden fort and the orcs started firing at them with bows, crappily, and ran down. The PCs ran inside the fort, saw the orcs had greataxes and charged in. From a door in the back of the fort I had a room where an Ettin stayed, prepared for ambush. He raged, ran out, and hit the monk. Next round he full attacked and dropped the monk. Then hit the cleric. Then full attacked and dropped the cleric. The fights seem to hinge on the Rogue getting a chance to full attack from a flank.. If she doesn't, fights are often hard. When she does, they're very easy. This fight the Ettin just had too much offense and no one could tank long enough to set up a flank.

Also, no mage or real tank, sadly. Their strong suit is stealth, but that fight lost that element very early.

[Qc Storm]

Also, no mage or real tank, sadly. Their strong suit is stealth, but that fight lost that element very early.

In that case, your party should invest in ways to retreat easily. If the initial surprise attack doesn't go too well, they can back off, regroup, and attempt again from another angle, hopefully with a better idea of what to expect.

[Bronk]

What CR do I think the encounter was?

First the orcs by themselves... each was CR4, and per the CR rules, doubling the number of identical combatants raises the CR by +2, for a total of CR6.

Next the ettin: it started as a CR6, but adding levels of an associated class, in this case adding barbarian levels to a melee fighter monster, gives at least +1CR per level. Plus, you gave it better equipment than normal, which would give it another +1CR for a total of CR9. It might be even higher, because the barbarian levels changed it's to hit bonus from a +12 to a +20.

Taken together, you might also think about how they used very tricky tactics to lure the party out, and raise the CR for each by another +1

It was at least one CR7 encounter (orcs) and one CR10 (ettin) encounter at the same time. I hope the players get a heaping dose of XP! (It also sounds very memorable!)

[Red Fel]

It was under the guise of a standard little orc fight. They saw a little wooden fort and the orcs started firing at them with bows, crappily, and ran down. The PCs ran inside the fort, saw the orcs had greataxes and charged in. From a door in the back of the fort I had a room where an Ettin stayed, prepared for ambush. He raged, ran out, and hit the monk. Next round he full attacked and dropped the monk. Then hit the cleric. Then full attacked and dropped the cleric. The fights seem to hinge on the Rogue getting a chance to full attack from a flank.. If she doesn't, fights are often hard. When she does, they're very easy. This fight the Ettin just had too much offense and no one could tank long enough to set up a flank.

Also, no mage or real tank, sadly. Their strong suit is stealth, but that fight lost that element very early.

This sounds like bad planning by the players, not bad balancing by the GM. If their strong suit is stealth, charging a group of armed orcs is the exact opposite of what they want to be doing. I think you not only gave them a reasonable fight, I think they (should have) learned a valuable lesson from it: never face orcs in a direct, fair fight. Frankly, never face ANYTHING in a fair fight unless you're a Paladin/Knight/Lawful Stupid.

I don't know what CR I would give it, but I wouldn't call it unbalanced. A group of four PCs faced three beefy monsters in a frontal assault and survived, if only partially. They fought badly but made it. End scene.

[Bronk]

I wouldn't call the encounter unbalanced for sure unless I knew what the party's level was, but the ambush aspect of it certainly makes it more challenging. Since they survived though, all's well that ends well, especially if they are both properly chastened at their own tactics... and properly rewarded for their win!